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The Problem with Self-Published Books...
That sounds like a great idea. Of course, I'd love my novel The Legacy: Fate to be tested for a stamp of approval. Is there any restriction in the genre? As for helping with screening novels, I hoped to have more free time soon, but I can't promise anything just yet. I'm still editing the sequel and I have a few books backed up for review.
G.G. wrote: "That sounds like a great idea. Of course, I'd love my novel The Legacy: Fate to be tested for a stamp of approval. Is there any restriction in the genre? As for helping with screen..."
My own time is limited as well. That's why I'm giving myself until March to research, read, and review. If you find the time before then, let me know. Either way, I've added your book to my list for consideration.
I hope it goes well for you. I'm going to follow your reviews to see what you come up with. There are some sites who do similar kinds of things, reviewing mostly self-published works, and I find them helpful at times. I myself, though I'm self-published, am skeptical of self-published books for the same reasons a lot of people are. When I read a book, I don't like to feel like it's work, and I'm picky about writing style and editing. I'd be interested in knowing what you mean by screening books, and I'd also like for you to take a glance at mine. Have fun with your new group! Kergulen
I've heard other discussions about "quality control" groups and stamps of approval. The websites that I've seen so far trying to attempt this seem to quickly get bogged down by numbers. While I applaud your effort, I think it's going to take several of these small grass root organizations coming together into a larger company with more resources and capital before anything with impact will come out of it. For example, how many readers will you need to cover all genres? Or will the genres be limited to a few?
I think we're only in Year Two of this self-publishing revolution. I think eventually there will be some mechanism for quality beyond the review system. But it's going to take time to sort it all out.
For me, I'm going to self-publish for now because the legacy publishers have become so anti-writer in their contracts. Now if that changes and they can work out a reasonable deal? Then I'd likely become a hybrid, publishing some with traditional publishers and some on my own. I already do that with my short fiction.
R.A. wrote: "I hope it goes well for you. I'm going to follow your reviews to see what you come up with. There are some sites who do similar kinds of things, reviewing mostly self-published works, and I find th..."Thanks! I've added you to my list.
Since I'm buying these books, research is appropriate. Reading reviews, checking out the author, and sampling as much as it is possible to sample will hopefully save me from wasting money on a purchase I will never read through to the end, let alone recommend to others.
My opinion of self published authors haven't been golden stars and firecracker reviews, but I do give credit were it is deserved (my openly hated love for Suzanne Wright). But on the other hand I am a huge supporter and member of Wattpad, a non published site for stories free to read by the public. Those stories have editing issues and ect. It also has been a stepping plateform for your self publishing group. I would be interested in seeing where this leads too, but I am also reluctant to enter due to my history with indie writers and ect. If your in need however for a critical review (I attempt to give depth to my ratings that are low in my giving stars for them) I do explain why I give one and two stars their ratings.
I am hestantly interested in being a reviewer for this. Maybe a consideration for the future maybe be for me would do. I do tend to lean more to the sizzling hot romances than the YA and New Adult (virgin zombies) of rapid production of late. Maybe I could work for you in that general degree.
Isn't there some kind of software that text can be put through for readability? Some of what makes a good book is elusive, but there are basic, easily definable standards for things like grammar and sentence structure. And say what you will about traditional large publishing houses, they don't issue product that's full of basic errors.
wow, that is great! I am very interested and I would love it if you took a look here: The Songs of the Gods for poetry and Theo and Morpheus' Medallion for children's book.Such a great idea!
Judy wrote: "I've heard other discussions about "quality control" groups and stamps of approval. The websites that I've seen so far trying to attempt this seem to quickly get bogged down by numbers. While I app..."Those are very valid points and you may be correct that my goal is likely in vain. Nevertheless, I believe in my project and will give it all I can.
I've seen some of those sites you mentioned. For a while I went to one for recommendations on books. The last time, I read the synopsis and characters analysis on a novel they'd reviewed and was thinking about making a purchase when the review finished with a devastating critique on editing.
I felt like I'd wasted my time reading the review. I wanted recommendations of quality work. Editing is a vital component of a well crafted story. I hadn't gone to that site to read random critiques of self published authors. I went to find books. I realized then that the site wasn't really serving the purpose I needed it to.
I'm not looking to review every self published book. I'm not saying I'll never write a negative review but my group will be about recommending work. It will be a place to go to find something worthwhile, not yet another list readers must wade through to sort the good and bad for themselves.
I would love to have my book be considered for a review. It is a YA paranormal/goth romance (paranormal as in ghost). 
Cozen wrote: "My opinion of self published authors haven't been golden stars and firecracker reviews, but I do give credit were it is deserved (my openly hated love for Suzanne Wright). But on the other hand I a..."I would be interested in any reading you would be willing to do, but I should clarify--if the work is not up to par, I will not expect you to keep reading. This group is about recommending GOOD books. There are enough places to go where readers are forced to sort through crap themselves. The point is for us to screen, and tell others what's worth reading.
Any genre you are comfortable with is fine. I'm hoping to accumulate enough willing readers to thoroughly cover every genre.
Let me know...
D.C. wrote: "Isn't there some kind of software that text can be put through for readability? Some of what makes a good book is elusive, but there are basic, easily definable standards for things like grammar a..."If you find one, let me know...
Like a lot of people, I don't feel comfortable making a significant commitment to a certain number of books, especially since I read more non-indie than indie, but I'd be happy to share my reviews and ratings with you. I have no problem posting them wherever people want them posted. If you wanted some kind of editing and grammer rating at the top, I could do that easily enough. One problem you'll probably run into with lots of volunteers is having a standard. Just because someone wants to do reviews for your group doesn't mean he or she has a clear concept of what acceptable English language looks like :).
Dimitrios wrote: "wow, that is great! I am very interested and I would love it if you took a look here: The Songs of the Gods for poetry and Theo and Morpheus' Medallion for children'..."You've been added to my list.
Sarah wrote: "I would love to have my book be considered for a review. It is a YA paranormal/goth romance (paranormal as in ghost). "You are on my list.
Like R.A., I make it a point to seek out and read at least some indie books and review them on my blog. I also feature author interviews.I totally agree with you, Jen, about what the other sites have been like, so I'm curious to see how yours goes.
(If you need fantasy or YA fantasy, I'd humbly offer two of mine, but one is still undergoing final edits and won't be published until March.)
Currently out: Heart of the Witch
and upcoming: Journey to Landaran
R.A. wrote: "Like a lot of people, I don't feel comfortable making a significant commitment to a certain number of books, especially since I read more non-indie than indie, but I'd be happy to share my reviews ..."That is understandable. I would appreciate your ratings and reviews of any indie work (four stars or better).
That's an excellent point. I'm hoping that since I will be primarily responsible for the screening of what is read, and am instituting a requirement for approval of at least five reviewers, that I will not encounter any issues with inappropriate recommendations. If you have any suggestion, though, I'd love to read them.
I should also state here that no one who volunteers to read and review will be expected to fulfill any requirement of X number of books. If you have time to read, I'll send you a list. Pick one that looks good to you, and I'll get you a copy.
Judy wrote: "Like R.A., I make it a point to seek out and read at least some indie books and review them on my blog. I also feature author interviews.I totally agree with you, Jen, about what the other sites ..."
I've added Heart of the Witch. Let me know when your other is complete and ready for consideration.
Jen wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Isn't there some kind of software that text can be put through for readability? Some of what makes a good book is elusive, but there are basic, easily definable standards for things l..."It's not my area of expertise, but I know there are programs that grade essays, so I'm thinking there must be something out there. I'll check with a couple of people who know a lot more about software, etc., than I do, and see if anything comes to mind.
I'm not that concerned with getting my own work into that kind of review since I'm a hybrid rather than a strict SPA, but I'm happy to help review. I write LGBT fiction, primarily m/m romances, but I also read a lot of speculative fiction and historical romance.
D.C. wrote: "Jen wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Isn't there some kind of software that text can be put through for readability? Some of what makes a good book is elusive, but there are basic, easily definable standards ..."Great! Thanks for volunteering! Over the next month, I intend to gather a list of at least twenty five self-published works to review and recommend. I will message you, if that's all right, when I have a list for you to choose from. Again, don't feel obligated to read more than you feel up to. Every reader who can stand behind at least one book is of great help to my project!
I think you are being extremely ambitious, but heartily applaud your efforts. I have no spare time at all to offer to help out but wish you all the best with the endeavour.
Sam wrote: "I think you are being extremely ambitious, but heartily applaud your efforts. I have no spare time at all to offer to help out but wish you all the best with the endeavour."I appreciate that. I am being ambitious, but I accept that it will likely be months if not years before I have the kind of comprehensive listing of recommendations that I hope to. It all depends on how many readers I can recruit...
Jen wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Jen wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Isn't there some kind of software that text can be put through for readability? Some of what makes a good book is elusive, but there are basic, easily definab..."That would be great. I'm happy to help.
@Jen: I think your group will be a worthy and useful tool if you can pull it off, which I believe you can if you have high standards and discerning readers. I'm a freelance copyeditor, and although I have limited time, I read quickly. I have a knack for analyzing opening pages; I can tell within two pages if the author has a chance at having written a good story. I would LOVE for an indie book to floor me with its unique voice, intriguing plot, believable dialogue, and beautiful writing.
I have steered away from reviewing indie books because I rarely find one I deem worthy of three stars, but writing a review for a "good" indie book? Now THAT I can do! So yes, please add me to your list of potential reviewers/screeners.
Heather wrote: "@Jen: I think your group will be a worthy and useful tool if you can pull it off, which I believe you can if you have high standards and discerning readers. I'm a freelance copyeditor, and althou..."
Wonderful! Thank you for volunteering! Which genres appeal to you?
I think this is an excellent idea. I’ve read several books lately that were poorly written. I found myself constantly rewriting the sentences. I would like to submit my book Footsteps 1: The Reluctant Pharaoh, The Little Street Kid, Farmcorp and the Secret Bookfor screening.
I am also willing to do some screening although I am busy editing the second book in my Footsteps series, plus readying another series for submission. I have extensive experience in editing since I write academic books for University of Toronto Press.
Jen wrote: "***Note: I am not accepting free copies. I will be doing significant research before adding to my TBR list. If your book passes the blurb and sample test and still holds my interest, you'll get a purchase. "What would help these new authors out a lot is if/when you reject their work, you tell them why it failed your test. I think for a lot of new authors, the submission process to publishers is already enough of a black hole. Giving feedback on why a book is not of interest to you is probably the greatest gift you can give to someone trying to hone his art and (especially) his marketing.
D.C. wrote: "A buddy found www.grammarly.com. Unfortunately it does not seem to be free."Thanks for the link!
Shirley wrote: "I think this is an excellent idea. I’ve read several books lately that were poorly written. I found myself constantly rewriting the sentences. I would like to submit my book [book:Footsteps 1: The..."
I've added your book to my list for consideration. Thanks for volunteering. If you find the time after you've completed your current projects, let me know!
I like the idea of what's been mentioned here, but a lot of the problem is with indie authors themselves and without them realizing they are part of the problem, they won't look for a stamp of approval, figuring nothing is wrong with what they are doing.Much as many of us hate to face the truth, the truth is publishing is a business and writing is a craft. A lot of indie authors don't respect their craft and aren't interested in doing the work or making the financial investments necessary to put out a quality product. Thus, you have a plethora of shoddily-written books with little to no editing, bad formatting, and even worse packaging. These "books" are then marketed through advertising that can only be deemed as spam. It makes prospective readers blind to other books because the prospective readers are bombarded with a new "book" every day.
Therein is your black hole.
How to fix the mess the self-published book market has become? There is no fix other than time and bad authors finally giving up because they are making no money. In the meantime, those of us who do take the craft of writing seriously, can do this:
1) Realize we are in competition not just with other indie authors but publishing houses both large and small and in order to make a dent in today's market our product must be top-of-the-line.
2) Be honest with ourselves about what we've written. If what we've written is crap, know that it should not be offered. Get the opinions of others outside of family, friends, or an established fan-base.
3) Spend three times as long editing our books as we did writing them and then, when we think we've got everything ironed out, hire an editor, a professional editor.
4) Employ beta-readers, honest ones, and ones that are not friends, fans, or family. Then when we get positive feedback from them, move on to the following steps.
5) For those of us who aren't professional artists, hire artists to do our covers. We shouldn't settle for Johnny down the block who just opened Photoshop for the first time and we shouldn't settle for one of those crappy cover houses. You might once in a blue moon find a cover that somewhat fits your novel, but chances are someone has either used that cover or will use the same cover.
6) Unless you know what it takes to format a book, hire someone to format your book. This includes both print and e-books. This may in fact require hiring two different people.
7) If you can't afford to hire the aforementioned professional help, don't say, "Oh well." and publish your book anyway. Save what you need to pay and have these things done.
If every indie author starts doing the above, the self-published market will improve and the striving for better quality may in fact draw back a ton of readers that have been lost due to bad offerings.
Jordan wrote: "Jen wrote: "***Note: I am not accepting free copies. I will be doing significant research before adding to my TBR list. If your book passes the blurb and sample test and still holds my interest, yo..."You're right. As I screen, I move books from my consideration shelf to a "read" shelf with the main reason I took a pass. If anyone notices their novel is no longer "to read" for me, and would like further explanation, please send me a message.
Jen wrote: "...is as much quality as visibility. Many threads here have rightly pointed out that there is no guarantee when picking up a self published work. There are no gatekeepers. I could publish a compila..."Jen, kudos to you for your support of indie authors. This will take a lot of effort on your part and the part of the reviewers who will get on board with you, but the benefits to readers and authors promise to be significant as well. As an author and a reader, I am so grateful for people like you!
I would like to offer up my MG/YA fantasy, The Tree of Mindala, for consideration. Thanks!
Mark wrote: "The problem is a lot of indie authors don't respect their craft and aren't interested in doing the work or making the financial investments necessary to put out a quality product. Thus, you have a ..."Excellent comments, Mark. As an aside, I went looking for your "Calasade" books but was unable to find them on Amazon. The links through Goodreads were no help, either. You may want to look into that problem?
Jen wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Jen wrote: "***Note: I am not accepting free copies. I will be doing significant research before adding to my TBR list. If your book passes the blurb and sample test and still holds ..."Jen wrote: "Shirley wrote: "I think this is an excellent idea. I’ve read several books lately that were poorly written. I found myself constantly rewriting the sentences.
I would like to submit my book [book:..."
Jen, I'm willing to work with you whenever you get set up, just tell me what you want me to do. I'm anxious for self-publishing to get more credibility and frankly I think that Kindle should be reviewing books more diligently before publishing them.
Shirley wrote: "Jen wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Jen wrote: "***Note: I am not accepting free copies. I will be doing significant research before adding to my TBR list. If your book passes the blurb and sample test and ..."I appreciate that. I'll message you when I have a list to choose from. What genres appeal to you?
Jen wrote: "...is as much quality as visibility. Many threads here have rightly pointed out that there is no guarantee when picking up a self published work. There are no gatekeepers. I could publish a compila..."Jen - you might be interested in checking out the IndiePENdents (their website is http://www.indiependents.org/)
They kind of do what you're thinking. It's a small operation - run by Julia and Jasha - unfortunately, Jasha passed away in late 2013, so Julia's been looking for people to help her out with the reviewing process - and she might be interested in your approach of researching books before just accepting them willy-nilly - as they don't really have a "screening process" yet.
Anyway, thought you might be interested even just to check it out. :)
Either way, I would be honored if you would consider my book for your undertaking - it's a YA Fantasy: King's Warrior
Jen - Please add my name and titles to your list of those interested in the review/selection process. I'm two thirds through a trilogy with No Heaven (http://amzn.to/17WMbEj) and No Hell (http://amzn.to/1gwjowR) available. No Religion is due out in 4 to 6 months.I'm also interested in knowing more about, and possibly joining, your team. I'm assuming that it will function similarly to Awesome Indies? (http://awesomeindies.net)
Jenelle wrote: "Jen wrote: "...is as much quality as visibility. Many threads here have rightly pointed out that there is no guarantee when picking up a self published work. There are no gatekeepers. I could publi..."Thanks for the link! I'll check them out. For now, your title has been added to my list.
I have no worries about the quality of my writing and I hope you will consider The Cougar for your list. It is a Gothic novel in the old sense of the word, so pretty wild and adventurous. It is also currently on a Goodreads Giveaway. I will say in advance that it includes British spelling and grammar - and as a UK author I don't consider these to be mistakes or poor editing. The Kindle version of The Cougar is also on Amazon Prime so could be read free if you have membership and a space in your schedule.http://www.amazon.com/Cougar-Lisa-Gab...
I'll throw my hat in the ring for your consideration: The Doctor's Daughter: Journey to Justice.
Lex wrote: "Jen - Please add my name and titles to your list of those interested in the review/selection process. I'm two thirds through a trilogy with No Heaven (http://amzn.to/17WMbEj) and No Hell (http://a..."I'll have to check out Awesome Indies when I get a chance. Basically, writers pitch books to me. I research, trying to determine quality, then either purchase or pass. If I purchase, the book will be read only as long as the quality holds up. I want, ideally, at least five readers for every novel. Should the work be determined to be just as good, if not better, than traditionally published titles, it will be recommended on my future group and my upcoming blog. Feel free to message me with any questions or suggestions you have. We'd love to have you on board.
@Jen: I'm open to all genres, but I'm not a big fan of sci-fi/fantasy. Oh, the horror, I know... I prefer non-fiction, YA, thriller/suspense/mystery, erotica, LGBT, romance, literary fiction, historical fiction, realistic fiction, memoir, and urban fiction. Yeah. Everything except sci-fi/fantasy. :)
Heather wrote: "@Jen: I'm open to all genres, but I'm not a big fan of sci-fi/fantasy. Oh, the horror, I know... I prefer non-fiction, YA, thriller/suspense/mystery, erotica, LGBT, romance, literary fiction, hi..."
Heather, thanks again for your willingness to participate. I'll message you a list when I've accumulated some titles. I look forward to your thoughts!
Lex wrote: "Excellent comments, Mark. As an aside, I went looking for your "Calasade" books but was unable to find them on Amazon. The links through Goodreads were no help, either. You may want to look into that problem?"Lex, you couldn't find them because I took them off the shelves after realizing I made the mistake of publishing too quickly. There were pacing issues with Strife and Foolish Endeavors. I also wanted to lose the Shakespearean dialogue and replace it with more modern English. Both will be republished soon with better covers after rewrites and going through the hands of an editor. Strife should be out in February/March with Foolish Endeavors published in July.
Long story short...
While nowhere near as bad as the work of some authors, I objectively looked at what I was putting out there, compared it to the books published by the big houses, and came to the conclusion some serious changes were in order. Guess that's my way of practicing what I preach. LOL
I would be interested to see if my latest book passes "the test". Dreams in the Womb
samples from the book here:
http://bgpetit.wordpress.com
As a self-published author, I recently found out how hard it is to become visible. I think your idea is wonderful, and even though I am very busy, I would like to help you with reviewing. I'm a fiction girl through and through :D I mostly read paranormal romance, urban fantasy, YA, or contemporary romance.
And I'd love my novel
to be tested for a stamp of approval :)
Wow.Thanks for the supoprt. I'm so glad that you don't give a damn that some people are tyrying to get others to read and enjoy their writing, even if it's bad. I can't try to spread some writing AND make a few dollars without a 'stamp of approval'? That makes me so happy. Thank you.
You think that just because I am (or anyone else is) a self published author, my/our writing is bad? You think that there has to be a way to approve it? What about all the other stupid things that should be approved and are wrongly so? Like standardized tests? Last year I spent TWO WEEKS at a desk - not moving (except for my hands) to take standardized tests for New York State. That shouldn't be approved. Yet it is. So why should you have to worry about cheesy (and terrible) writing that is self-published because not many people will find it anyway!!!! But thousands of kids have to take these stupid standardized test that are worthless. Thousands of people self-publish. Thousands of people make a few extra dollars (Or a lot of extra dollars) and spread their word! Isn't that a dream come true? (by the way, I bet that self-published writing is better than that on these stupid tests. - whether it has a 'stamp of approval' or not.)
And yes, you may think that I haven't read this stream of comments... but I did, and I have to say, that title is very off-putting. It's offensive. Thank you, again, for offending me and other self-publishers who are proud of their writing and don't need a 'stamp of approval'.
I'm a self published author. I spent years writing my first novel. It took a LONG time. I wrote and edited and rewrote and reedited and gave it to friends to read and then gave it to more friends. I don't have a professional editor. I have some very close friends who also self-publish.
I hope that next time you start of comments like so, you consider the title first - so it doesn't off-put anyone like it did me.
If you want to consider my book to see how it is according to your criteria, go ahead. Note that I was 12 when I published it. It's not perfect - not many books are (in fact, I've found some little errors in the best book I ever read) - but you have to give self-publishers some credit.
Lyn wrote: "As a self-published author, I recently found out how hard it is to become visible. I think your idea is wonderful, and even though I am very busy, I would like to help you with reviewing. I'm a fi..."
Thanks for volunteering! I'll message you when I have some titles. I've also added yours to my list!
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I've read a lot of threads here giving suggestions on how to establish some sort of quality control. I think there are enough people here interested in granting legitimacy to deserved work that we should do something about it.
In March, I am starting a group dedicated to promoting self published books. I have a small group of readers, including myself, who will read and review and promote indie authors of quality work. No book will be promoted unless at least five of us agree the writing is worthy.
My hope is to provide that stamp of approval for writers who have taken the time and effort to refine their craft, and to help readers find new authors of good, well-written work.
If you are willing to help screen novels, please comment below or message me.
If you would like to pitch a book for consideration, PLEASE DO SO HERE:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I'm hoping this will make it easier to keep track.
***Note: If you have submitted a title, and your novel is not marked as either "to read," or "read" by me, please send me a message. I'm trying not to lose track here, but I've gotten a lot of responses to my post.
******Extra Note: If you have been moved from "to read, for consideration" to "read, declined" and would like to know why your book didn't make the cut, send me a message.