BINGO R8 | Discussion Thread

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

@Steph, is the exact hour of shelf announcement the cutoff for considering a person to be a book behind? Or just the deadline you are using for yourself?

[D.G.]

For cutoffs, it's probably a good idea to use the exact time. I wouldn't necessarily ask the mods to post the shelves at the exact same time each week as they also have lives outside of SOS. This is supposed to be fun for them too, not a chore. :)

I'm sure that as this is the first time they've instituted that rule, the mods will monitor it and see how it works. But as I said, players have 3 chances. If you know you are already 2 shelves behind and you also had that week's two other shelves to read, you could probably keep pace just by reading two books that week and always being two books behind.

[Regina]

Yes, that is how I imagine it too. I think once we get going it will be easy to see how it happens.

[Regina]

I can't wait for shelf call I need a book to read!!!!!

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

That's awfully unfair because in other rounds the shelf announcement has been made way, way earlier than normal expected time.

I don't expect the announcement to be made same time of day.

But if that announcement is going to be the cutoff--I would hope that if someone posted a review an hour before expected shelf announcement but on that day announcer couldn't sleep so got up two hours earlier and made the announcement one hour before the review was posted that that poor team member would not be considered as being a book behind.

I don't think it's fair that just by posting a single hour or 15 minutes or whatever after shelf announcement that we could be considered a book behind. For criminy's sake, there have been times on the weekend that it's taken me a half hour to have a comment show up on goodreads or an hour to get in on over capacity days.

I would really like to have a leeway around shelf announcement during which a review posted will still be considered on time. Maybe 1, 2, or 4 hiurs if same day postings won't be acceptable. Puhlease, please, please don't disqualify a review posted 5 minutes after shelf announcement -- that could seriously just be a connection problem or a delay from the amazon cloudfront servers now handling goodreads. Cloudfront is notoriously horrible on weekends.

[Lauren]

Perhaps there could be a 24 hour grace period before disqualifying someone for being 3 books behind. This should more than cover any time zone, GR glitch or other contingency.

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

I agree (see message 142) but if not a full 24-hours at least some official ruling for x amount of time within shelf announcement before being considered a first strike.

Or at least a cutoff for how early an announcement can be made and still create a strike. So if I post 6 hours before normal shelf announcement time and real life interferes to where rather than make us wait the shelf gets announced 8 hours earlier than normal (and two hours before my review post) I won't be getting a strike.

I seriously am not asking or expecting shelf call to be an exact time. But, because it won't be, I don't think it's fair to use exact time of shelf call as a cutoff for giving someone a strike.

[ETA for typos and attempted clarity]

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

Confession, I posted my second review a little over two hours ago but I actually finished the book about 1am this morning and my eyes were just two tired to focus. If I had thought exact time of shelf announcement would be the cutoff, I would have forced out a pithy enjoyed-it-was-genre-liked-and-funny paragraph post and then crashed.

[Dawn (Kat N Hat)]

Respectfully posted, I don't think anyone is rushing to kick someone out. I doubt anyone is spiteful enough to rush it with out giving a bit of consideration.

However if a team mate is not keeping up after multiple weeks, they have been fairly warned it will happen it is not a surprise. If you've been behind for multiple weeks then you should not be posting your first review of the week on shelf day.

The key to the solution is to just not fall behind, or be respectful enough to your teammates if you know you can't do the challenge drop out.

[Regina]

I get your concern, but if you think about it -- needing to post 3 reviews (thus essentially 1.5 weeks behind) by the time another shelf is called would put a player at 5 reviews needed. The drop rule was put in place to protect teams b/c there have been issues in the past and this is speed round bingo.

D.A. you needing to post 2 reviews before this shelf call wasn't a true deadline, even if you hadn't posted those two reviews you wouldn't be dropped. It is only when you have 3 you haven't done.

I think the rule should stand, no need for a 24 hour rule. The 3 day drop rule already builds in a week cushion for people who didn't read a book. If we all aim to have our book reviews entered by 8:00 am Sydney Time then we will all be okay. If that means the middle of the night for some people, then just move your time up to right before you go to bed.

I really do think this is going to be fine. It just needs to happen and get going.

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

Regina, can you link to where one of the moderators made those rulings and said shelf call wasn't a true deadline for giving someone a single strike? Or give a message #?

[Steph is a moderator and posted she's using that as a deadline for herself but I don't know if that means it's a deadline for everyone. And no offense intended to Regina but because she says so doesn't mean moderators say so.]

[Regina]

What rulings?

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

I realize moderators are on different time zones so don't think they are ignoring the concerns raised but rather just not checked in yet.

[Regina]

Steph did check in a little bit ago.

Steph's response to my post, #150 in this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Shelf Announcement time here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

The sign-up thread that talks about the 3 strikes rule: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

Regina wrote: "What rulings?"

The ones your message#160 refer to about what the true deadlines are or aren't and that you think "..need to stand..."

[I think your 8am Sydney time may have just happened to be time last shelves were called; I don't remember that being mentioned as a cutoff before but there are a lot of message threads in this folder.]

[Regina]

Cross-posted, see above.

[Regina]

Well the only point at which a player falls behind is if they haven't posted their review by shelf call, it is implicit in the rule:

➸ TWO SHELVES A WEEK! It'll be a cut-throat round and the pace will require players to read, rate & review TWO BOOKS a week. Two shelves, instead of one, will be announced each Sunday. Not your cuppa? Don't worry, there will be 1-book-a-week rounds in 2014. :)
➸ THREE STRIKES, YOU'RE OUT! Keeping pace is essential in this round of BSB! Individual team members who fall 3 books behind will be removed from the challenge. If your team loses a player because of this, a new player will not be added to fill their place. Your team will continue rockin' and readin' on as is minus one player. This is a team challenge, your teammates depend on you to participate and communicate with them. So, please, keep this in mind when deciding to play.

A player is not keeping pace if the reviews are posted by the time the next shelves are called. In my mind that is the cut off. I am not a mod, but for me that is the time which I am using (unless the mods announce something different). In past rounds I have always viewed that as the cutoff to note how many my team is behind, I think most players use that as a guidepost.

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

"Implicit" equals "implied" to me, so, respectfully, I would still like clarification from moderators as to cutoff for giving a member a strike.

And, respectfully, your link to the shelf calling time just links to a message that says shelf is called on Sundays, Sydney time, and does not say 8am or even mornings. Just says typically in the morning. Past rounds show that shelf announcements usually are around early mornings Sunday -- but also that that it is not always true.

One round I played, shelf was even announced a calendar day earlier. (I'm positive that no one would get a strike called on them if for example they posted a review 5am Sunday-Sydney-time but 12 hours after actual shelf announcement made early if that happened again, but, still, it did happen.)

Admittedly, I wouldn't care if I got a strike for posting after shelf call if shelf call was made Saturday-Sydney-time. I'd just flounce off letting my team know I was no longer participating.

[Regina]

D.A. - barely here ☺ - wrote: ""Implicit" equals "implied" to me, so, respectfully, I would still like clarification from moderators as to cutoff for giving a member a strike.

And, respectfully, your link to the shelf calling time just links to a message that says shelf is called on Sundays, Sydney time, and does not say 8am or even mornings. Past rounds show that shelf announcements usually are around early mornings Sunday -- but also that that it is also not always true.

One round I played, shelf was even announced a calendar day earlier. "

I said 8:00 am b/c it is a decent cut off in my mind, it is what I am going to use absent something else. And it does say mornings:

Shelf announcements are made every Sunday, typically in the morning, Sydney Standard Time

The early call was done only b/c of an impending hurricane if my memory serves correct. It was a unique situation to make sure the game could keep going in the event of a power outage. And in that game there was not a no strike rule so there was no consequence of posting the shelf early.

I guess I don't see what the worry is about if we already have a week cushion in -- it isn't 2 behind, it is 3 behind. But we all have our own concerns.

It is the time for a shelf call and I am ready for a book! :D

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

Crap. I wrote last week's shelf call down wrong and thought wouldn't be for another two hours assuming posted a similar time as last time. Time zones confuse me.

(Off to caffeinate confused brain)

Eta:
P.S. In that game and in no other game was there a three strike rule simply because this is the first game that has a three strike rule. So, I wasn't trying to use any cutoff rules from those games. I was asking what the strike cutoff was for the only game that has strikes.

[AH]

Shelf!

[Thenia]

I doubt it's going to be a problem but I'd suggest Wednesday as the "cutoff" day D.A. is so worried about. It's far enough into the week that time zones don't really matter. If you have 3 reviews pending by the time the two new shelves are called your team could give you a warning (mods are busy people and shouldn't have to do everything around here!) and if you fail to finish/post at least one of them by the end of Tuesday your time (whatever that might be) then you're out.

Everyone knew before we started that this was a speed round so if for whatever reason you fail to keep up then no one will hold it against you if you drop out of the game. There's no reason to leech the fun out of the game by worrying so much about that. If the rules are too much pressure you could just drop out and read along with us without stressing about cutoff days etc.

Is it time for the shelves yet?

[[deleted user]]

Shelf!! Is it time yet?!?
:)

[Sandra, Kindle Operator Licence Required]

In just a few minutes ladies :)

In response to the 3 strikes policy. Effectively, when the new shelves are called, that would put you at 5 reviews behind, that was our thinking. And that excludes the Free Space Book. No one is looking to throw anyone out of the game but in the past we have had slackers ruining it for their teammates. So we thought this way, we'd be warning everyone before the game started.

If anyone does fall into this category, the Mods will be having a chat with them before summary execution. So stop worrying.

[D.G.]

D.A. - are you under the impression that the strikes cannot be taken back? That once you post review after the cutoff, you'll have a strike forever? That's not the way I see it. You can always catch up as long as you don't have three strikes at the same time. For instance, if I'm behind a book this week and manage to catch up on the next, I don't have any strikes. My record is clean. The point is not to be 3 books behind at the same time.

[Sandra, Kindle Operator Licence Required]

Yep, that's correct D.G. We're not playing baseball. LOL

[Sandra, Kindle Operator Licence Required]

Hmmm, looking at some of the comments, you haven't grasped / we haven't explained clearly - the fact of 3 reviews behind doesn't include the just announced shelves. You still have the week to read them. It is when you are 3 reviews behind plus the 2 announced, so effectively 5 reviews behind, that you are in trouble. 5 reviews is a lot to make up.

[~Melissa~]

Quick question with the "New to you series" shelf announcement.

I put a book into my currently reading pile on here when I was on earlier today for a different challenge but never started reading it. It is a new to me author and #1 in the series can I use this for my book or should I pick a different book?

Thanks!

[Sandra, Kindle Operator Licence Required]

You can use that one Melissa ;)

[~Melissa~]

Thanks Sandra!!

[Regina]

That is how I understood it. Thank you for the clarification. And I really love this rule.

[Sandra, Kindle Operator Licence Required]

;)

[Steph, Serious series addict]

Thanks for the add'l clarification, Miss Sandra!

[D.G.]

Sandra wrote: "Yep, that's correct D.G. We're not playing baseball. LOL"

I know! I couldn't see any reason why D.A. was so upset about the timing, unless she thought the strikes were there forever. When you catch up at any time, it doesn't really matter if the shelves are called in an hour before or after.

[AH]

Also, our lovely mods do volunteer their time and occasionally RL does get in the way. So thank you, mods for doing such a wonderful job organizing this game.

[Regina]

Yes, great point AH. Thank you, thank you! This is such a fun game and I always learn about new series.

[Lis]

I agree... our Mods do a great job! We just need to let it roll and see how it plays out. No one really needs to worry until next week... Enjoy the game and hopefully everyone picks some good books and adds a few more to the TBR list...

[Judithe, Soap Operas never end....]

Just got back from work (ugh, not the best "use" of a Sunday...but oh well!). Updated the spreadsheet, and we have a bumper crop of three-in-a-rows!

Hope everyone's happily reading away, and enjoying some great book finds. My TBR diet is, again, not working well! Great reviews that lead to very tempting books!

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

D.G. wrote: "I know! I couldn't see any reason why D.A. was so upset about the timing, unless she thought the strikes were there forever. When you catch up at any time, it doesn't really matter if the shelves are called in an hour before or after. ..."

That's what "three strikes" means, none of the moderators anywhere until these recent messages said anything about the "strike" being removed once the book was caught up.

I wasn't upset, I just wanted moderator clarification before strikes started being handed out. I've read everything in this folder and that just wasn't clear. I'm sure Regina was trying to help, but as a non-moderator it wasn't making sense that she could set guidelines like 8 a.m. Sydney time cutoff for strikes.

[Regina]

It's not what it means in the context of how the rule was written. It is a fair rule and in my opinion well written. I think at this point we should move on. It is a non-issue.

[Regina]

I never set a guideline and my post never I said I did. Leave it and move on.

[D.G.]

D.A. - barely here ☺ - wrote: "That's what "three strikes" means, none of the moderators anywhere until these recent messages said anything about the "strike" being removed once the book was caught up."

Actually, that's exactly how it works in baseball (which is where the phrase comes from.) You don't carry over strikes from different at bats - meaning that if you step up to the plate in the 5th inning, the umpire doesn't count the strikes you got in the 1st inning because that's done already. To compare it to Bingo - each shelf is considered an 'at bat' and once you're done with it, your strike is removed.

Hopefully now everything is clarified and nobody feels the need to add special rules.

[Christina (AKA Babbling)]

Steph wrote an in depth-type explanation in the Bingo FAQ

This is how I understood her explanation:

Let's pretend I'm playing the game. I just started reading Lord's Fall (Dragon shelf). I still haven't read the KAH or the two new books. If the only book I RRR by the NEXT shelf call (week 3) is Lord's Fall, then I'm out of the game -- KAH and the two books from Week 2 equal three books behind. The new shelf (week 3) would mean I'd have to RRR 5 books before week 4's shelf call if I want to be caught up.

However, if I managed to RRR two of the books by the next shelf (week 3), I would have two strikes and would still be in the game.

[D.G.]

Shelf! Shelf!! (I want to read one particular book so I'm hoping one of 10 shelves that fit it is called.)

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

Wow, that's early to call for a shelf!

I think for the upcoming full round of BINGO it might be better to just say "3 books behind" instead of "three strikes" -- even though now a moderator says that strikes can be removed and I get it, it sounds confusing. And the baseball analogy doesn't help because it's only one round of BINGO so you only come up to bat one time.

With "strikes" not staying once a book was read, then, no rules or deadline clarifications needed. Calling it something other than strikes might just make it clearer though.

[Regina]

D.G. wrote: "Shelf! Shelf!! (I want to read one particular book so I'm hoping one of 10 shelves that fit it is called.)"

I am almost done with my two books so I almost about to join you in your chant!

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

It's Thursday lunch time where I am.

[D.G.]

D.A. - barely here ☺ - wrote: "Wow, that's early to call for a shelf!"

Wow, Debbie! You now want to dictate when other players chant for shelves? ;) I've been done with my books since yesterday morning so I actually waited a long time to start the chanting.

And it's around Thursday mid-day where I am. :)

ETA: Shelves!! (forgot it was plural before.)

[Regina]

When I first posted I was eating my lunch too. :) I still want the shelf call!

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

Dictate? because I thought it was early? This group used to be much less touchy. I certainly was not "dictating" or attempting to "dictate" -- all I said was that it was early. I'm shutting up except on my team thread; obviously not everyone is welcome on this one. Even if we just ask for clarification because a rule confused us. You win, goodreads wins, yes, members are shutting up. Glad I get one last game of BINGO before leaving completely.