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Proven Guilty
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Proven Guilty (Dresden Files #8), by Jim Butcher; Start Date: October 17, 2013
I'm on chapter 29 .
Yeah, a lot happens in this book. And 110 pages is a lot to cover for the DQs in one section. This book, as far as word count goes, is a "chunkster" - meaning it has more words per page than a lot of other books.
Lisa Kay wrote: "Yeah, a lot happens in this book. And 110 pages is a lot to cover for the DQs in one section. This book, as far as word count goes, is a "chunkster" - meaning it has more words per page than a lo..."I was just thinking this feels like the end of the book but I'm only half way there!
Yeah, that is the way I felt earlier, too.
Loving the book, though.
Anyone find it creepy?
Gisela wrote: "Anyone find it creepy?"I haven't got to anything creepy yet!
Oh, I have! Creepy, creepy!
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 23 – 30 19. I really like the idea of Harry and Bob turning the phages against the summoner; however, we aren’t even half-way through the book. Something’s got to go wrong, right?
Oh yes!! He told Murphy that it's all done and I was sure that nothing was done and that's just the start! but it was a brilliant idea.
20. Does Molly have a crush on Harry? Was that exit scene from the bathroom in a towel planned? Either way, in Charity’s eyes Harry’s been “proven guilty” – and is a dead man.
I think she does have a crush, I thought about it in the last book that Harry saw her , was it #6? Can't remember . I thought it was planned.
I was surprised when Harry took her home Charity thought that they were together but when Molly came to his door I was pretty sure Charity would see something and take it the wrong way.
We have to change Bob's name from Bob the skull to Bob the pervert!
21. Nelson! Do you trust him? Is Harry wise to turn him over to Father Forthill at Saint Mary of the Angels?
No I don't trust him but I think he was really scared when he called Harry
22. Eep! What WAS the feline/insect thing? Some creature from a movie? Whatever, Harry sure has a lot of guilt. And now it is over that poor dead girl. However, if he’d let that feline/insect thing run, it would have killed or hurt many others. Right? At least we know the spell works.
right .I'm thinking what happened to the scarecrow , they just left him in the middle of the street, wouldn't he attack innocent people ?
23. Did Harry use a Jedi Mind Trick on Detective Green? LOL!
Haahaaa that was funny
24. Mouse! (view spoiler) I must say, I wasn’t expecting Rawlins and Harry to be kidnapped! That’s a new one. And by Crane and Glau? Did you have any clue as to what or who they were, exactly?
I was pretty sure he was fine , he is the magic dog , he won't get killed ! Me neither ,I wasn't expecting them to be kidnapped. not the tiniest clue!
25. And Harry’s being auctioned off to the highest bidder, Duchess Arianna of the Red Court – via eBay!! That’s the widow of Paolo, who Ebenezar dropped the satellite on, so she probably wants revenge. Unless she’s thrilled to be a widow? What of the White Council’s stance on ransom demands? Comments.
It might be inappropriate but I thought the ebay and paypal thing was hilarious ! no she wants revenge . I want to know who were the other bidders and and if there was a winner! it would be interesting to know how much
26. Do you think Harry will be beholding to Lasciel for the information she gave him about the manacles, or was it a no-strings exchange? But what of her assist in that harrowing escape? Or is Harry on the slippery-slop to Hell?
The more he accepts her help the harder it will be get rid of her !He didn't have any choice but it doesn't look good how much he is using her help
27. Thomas (view spoiler) – where you expecting that? Wait. What? Crane is (view spoiler) Another shocker. Nevertheless, though he says he is merely a spectator, not the summoner, should Harry trust him? Especially after he threw him under the bus – or rather, the Scarecrow? (BTW: Eep! A Scarcrow with claws?! Butcher has quite an imagination. I couldn’t think up movie character names like that.)
I was shocked too . I wasn't suspecting either of these. but I think he is telling the truth ,he's not the summoner ,he was just there and enjoyed the show!!!
28. Okay, what were the tiny flickers of pale colors, “almost like Saint Elmo’s fire” about Mouse’s feet?
Magic Dog :D
29. So, let me get this straight? What is Thomas’s job? Is he working for the Venatori Umbrorum, the Fellowship of Saint Giles, or the White Council? Or doing his own thing? And he joined the Hunt? Makes sense, right? He’s a predator.
30. Was Glau setting Magrigal up for the fall?
It seemed like it
31. The Carpenters! Lord, I wasn’t expecting that. Poor Daniel – poor Molly! “They” have her. Any guesses as to who “they” are?
Well "they" are the Phages but I have no idea why! and why did they turn to Molly instead of the summoner? Had the summoner predicted something like that and had precautions for it? is it possible Molly is really the summoner but someone else is making her do it?
32. Do you like Father Forthill?
Very much , Loled at the bartender thing
@ ShoSho#20 – Yes, Bob the Perv.
#26 – Yes, I wonder when the day of reckoning will be?
#28 – Magic Dog!
#31 – Answered in the next section.
Lisa Kay wrote: "@ ShoSho#31 – Answered in the next section."
Yep just listened to that part.
are you doing the next DQs? or are we waiting for Gisela or Lauren?
I don't know. Can we play it by ear? It is 8:30 p.m. here... and I know I won't post them tonight.
ok , and I know I won't because I have a headache and I still have 1.5 hour to go. so let's see what happens tomorrow :)
Is it the first time we hear about Venatori Umbrorum ?Or were they in the previous books?
Sorry I'm so behind - my dad is still in hospital although he is better. Quite chatty in fact after being so quiet the last few days. I'm on chapter 9 (I think) - Harry has just met Molly and Nelson at the police station.
All I can say is wow! What happened to sweet, little Molly - I knew she was experimenting with make-up but geez!
Also, why does Mouse have such an adverse reaction to her? My spidey sense is going off.
Lauren's answers to Questions for chapter 1-111. That's a good question. Harry says that he was an untrained newbie so
I do have to wonder if the boy was experienced enough to cast the death curse.
2. The Merlin has had it in for Harry from the beginning. Harry is a rule breaker and the Merlin is all about the rules. I don't think he's the traitor because a) it's too obvious and b) the Merlin played a pivotal role in fighting the Red Court in the last book.
I understood the McCarthy reference to be related to the McCarthy era when people were persecuted and blacklisted for being communist sympathizes. Did I miss something?
3. The Fae have their own agenda - maybe they are willing to let the Red Court kill the wizards because it suits there purposes. Not sure about Fix's attitude.- maybe is out of the loop?
4. I like the fact that the Gatekeeper trusts Harry enough to give him the message.
Bob's explanation sounds like the right one - the black magic hasn't happened yet but it will and the gatekeeper wants to stop it before it happens. I do think that it is related to Molly and Nelson in some way.
5. Not sure about Thomas's job. Perhaps he will take a back seat in this book :0(
6. Love the mini Chicago model. Harry has his moments of brilliance. It will definitely be used in some way in the book.
7. Yeah, the new Molly is not what I expected and the fact that Mouse growls at her suggests that there is something off with her - maybe she is connected to the black magic in some way? Nelson is weird but Mouse didn't growl at him so...
8.I felt bad for Michael caught between his wife and his daughter but I'm actually leaning toward taking Molly's side simply because I cannot stand Charity. She automatically assumes that Harry is responsible for Molly's behavior, she looks down her snooty nose at him and lashes out.
Molly is obviously chafing at her mother's rules in typical teenage fashion. Charity is not going about it in the right way - threatening and forbidding instead of talking, understanding and helping her daughter make the right decisions.
9. No idea yet but I think they are probably all connected in some way.
@Lisa Kay#7. I'm less inclined to suspect Nelson because Mouse definitely didn't growl at him even when he made aggressive moves toward Harry not like he did with Molly. This suggests to me that it is Molly who is connected to the black magic not Nelson. It is possible that unbeknownst to Molly, she has had contact with the baddie.
#8. I also found it interesting that Michael didn't notice Lasciel's presence,
Did anyone else notice the discrepancy in the number of Knights of the Cross. There are three swords but Harry says there are only two Knights. Haven't they found a replacement for Shiro?
@ Lauren#2.I didn't know about McCarthy era , thanks for the info!
#5.Heeheee
#8.I don't like Charity's personality either.
Lauren wrote: "Did anyone else notice the discrepancy in the number of Knights of the Cross. There are three swords but Harry says there are only two Knights. Haven't they found a replacement for Shiro? "No not yet.
Lauren wrote: "Sorry I'm so behind - my dad is still in hospital although he is better. Quite chatty in fact after being so quiet the last few days. I'm on chapter 9 (I think) - Harry has just met Molly and Nel..."
:) Good that your dad is better!
I can do the Qs but they won't really good or that many, I wasn't thinking about them when listening. Do you want me to?
I'm just starting Chapter 36. If you want to do the next set, that would be great, ShoSho. I promise, once the Tower Teams Reading Challenge is over, I'll contribute more.
Ok on it. I'll post them in an hour or so!That's Ok , I know what huge job is the tower teams challenge !
Insane!
I wonder why you get yourself into these things :D
@ Lauren#1 – Good point.
#7 – As the chapters have passed, I’d forgotten about Mouse growling at Molly. Now it makes me think. Thanks for the reminder. Good points about Nelson, too.
#8 – LOL! Yeah, I’m not too fond of Charity, either.
I did notice the discrepancy between Knights & swords! I don’t think Shiro’s has been replaced.
I’m glad your dad is doing better, too!
Questions for Chapter 31-3933.Again I didn’t see that coming !Charity has magic .I always thought Charity is too self-righteous but the way she treated her daughter...! She did the exact same thing her parents had done to her and caused Molly to leave. I can’t believe she had never told Michael about her magic. And the way she treated Thomas! I just don’t like her.
34. What did he mean by “The dragon” ? Did this Gregor person sacrificed people to a dragon to gain power ?Did he chain her to an iron post for the dragon? Have we heard anything about this before?
35.So Molly used black magic to alter her friends brains . Does she have a mentor who told her how to do it or did she learn it all by herself? She has broken one of the laws ,what do you think would happen to her? I think Harry will vouch for her and take her as his ward!
36. I knew the baby hair wouldn’t work , I thought that baby isn’t the same person as this new Molly and I was right. What did you think of Lasciel’s performance? Isn’t she getting too meddling?
37.Haahaa Bob the Perv! “Don’t get me wrong, big guy , I like you .But not that way.”
38.Who is the next knight? I always thought (hoped is more accurate) it would be Harry himself. Or maybe Murphy? What do you think?
39. Were you surprised with Charity’s skill in fighting? On the side note, why can’t Harry stop ogling her?
41.A clever way to get Fix and Lilly to help . And sneaky of Lilly to send that butterfly with them. Thoughts ?
40.Who had Killed Mab’s guards with fire ? A fallen angel?
41.The creepiest scene in the whole book for me was the wink. Was it really Mab? Was she looking the whole time? I was expecting to see Lea there but I wasn’t expecting her telling Harry not let her free. I thought harry would either kill or free the Winter Knight. I was surprised that he left him there. Comments?
Sorry I can't contribute to the DQs, ladies. Hopefully my dad will be out of hospital soon (they are allowing him to to drink water but still no solid food) and I will be back on track for the next book.
I just finished! LOVED IT! a few scenes towards the ends were just fabulous!
I'm in one of those moods I can jump right to the next book and finish the series in a few weeks!
Lauren's Answers to Questions for Chapter 12-2210. I can't recall who the person was but I agree that it is significant. I wonder if it could have been Darby Crane.
11. Yes, very interesting. Pell didn't get the full effect because it was still daylight and because he has good coping mechanisms. Not sure about Rosie, maybe it was because of the drugs or maybe because she is pregnant and the need to protect her baby made her stronger somehow.
I do think that people who are not afraid of scary movies might be immune unless the Phobophage can project their fear in a different way other than movies. Kind of like the Boggart in HP.
12. Yeah, not a fan of either of them. What kind of man marries his ex-wife's younger sister? There is something so wrong about that and kind of creepy too. I know you can't control who you love but still...
Anyhoo, I think Rick will probably believe but I have my doubts about Greene - he is so square and would just explain it away logically.
13.I love Thomas! No idea what his job it but I find it interesting that he doesn't want to tell Harry what it is...
14.They have certainly grown and become more confident - I'm happy for them. I really liked how they didn't let Maeve manipulate them and Harry getting one over on Maeve also made me smile.
The only things that I understood from it were that Summer and Winter are at each others' throats (which is nothing new), Titania has forbidden Lily and Fix from helping Harry and put a spell on them to ensure it, and Mab has lost her marbles.
15.I don't read novellas as a rule and it kind of irritates me when an author refers to things in a full length novel that happened in a novella. Not everyone has access to these novellas so it seems wrong to me. Rant over.
I don't trust Mab one iota - she has something up her sleeve...I wonder if she is still going to try to convince Harry to become the Winter Knight. Maybe she will leverage her help against the Red Court in order to manipulate him.
16.I also like him for the villain and must question whether or not he was in Chicago. We only have Nelson's word that he actually picked Crane up at the airport - also whose to say that he didn't arrive earlier and them go back to the airport...
As to what he is, perhaps some type of dark mage or practitioner of black magic of some sort but not a wizard. Harry said something about warlocks earlier?
No idea what would have happened if he touched Murphy, but it wouldn't have been good...maybe mind control?
17.Finally some progress in this area. Its kind of sad that Murphy doesn't see a future for them. I;m hoping she will change her mind because they obviously love each other - at least it is obvious to me :0(
18.I also liked it - very poetic in some ways.
@Lisa Kay#10. I also think it was the person coordinating the Phobophage. I still wonder if it was Darby Crane but then Harry would have recognized him later...
#12. Greene may die (a character is often introduced so that they can die later like in Star Trek). Don't think Rick will die though as he is a more established character.
#13. Harry is going to miss Thomas.
#14. I also got the couple vibe from them.
#17. I can also see why Harry would be worried but he also wants a family - he has Thomas but it isn't the same.
@ Lauren#12 – I agree with what you said about the survival odds fo Green and Rick.
#14 – LOL! (over Mab’s marbles…) Glad you got the same ‘couples’ vibe as I did. Validates me. ☺
#15 – I agree. Love it when they put them on their website for free, though.
#16 – Ah! Good point about his possible retune to the airport. You must have been a sneaky teenager?
#17 – Yes, they love each other. However, what kind of love is it? I know I’ve said this, but I really wanted them to get together early on… and now I’m getting my hopes played with again!
@Lisa Kay#16. Lol! I read a lot of mysteries and watch numerous police shows - I'm suspicious of everyone and am always on the lookout for alternate explanations. I blame CSI!
#17. Yes, I was starting to get my hopes up only to have them dashed :0(
@ Lauren#16 - LMBO! Yes, CSI has a lot for which to account.
#17 - Aww... we're only on book #8. There is still time. Right?
Yes, there is still time...I'm still optimistic that they will come to their senses. It's the romantic in me
Me, too. **sigh**
A cosplay of Molly:
LK, the Dresden short stories are collected in
. Some of the stories are spoilery if read before certain books. Butcher included an introduction to each story and clearly states when the stories take place series wise. I read them following the corresponding book in the series, so it took me a looooong time to finish SJ. Not all stories are from Harry's POV.
Thanks, G! GTK.
Gisela wrote: "LK, the Dresden short stories are collected in . Some of the stories are spoilery if read before certain books. Butcher included an intr..."I have that one, but I've only read a few of the stories. Nothing interesting yet!
Luckily, my library has it in various formats. I'll have to check it out.
How far you Lisa Kay?I'm dying to talk to you about it!
Sorry, ShoSho. I'm behind. My BFF keeps calling me and distracting me. We are planing a trip together. We are both excited. Anyway, I'm going back over Chapters 31 - 39 and reading instead of listening, as I lost track of a few things. I'm almost to the end of Chapter 39. Then I'll answer your DQs. Promise.
Where are you going?
Romance Lovers for the Challenge-Impaired
Books mentioned in this topic
Side Jobs (other topics)Side Jobs (other topics)
Proven Guilty (other topics)
19. I really like the idea of Harry and Bob turning the phages against the summoner; however, we aren’t even half-way through the book. Something’s got to go wrong, right?
20. Does Molly have a crush on Harry? Was that exit scene from the bathroom in a towel planned? Either way, in Charity’s eyes Harry’s been “proven guilty” – and is a dead man.
21. Nelson! Do you trust him? Is Harry wise to turn him over to Father Forthill at Saint Mary of the Angels?
22. Eep! What WAS the feline/insect thing? Some creature from a movie? Whatever, Harry sure has a lot of guilt. And now it is over that poor dead girl. However, if he’d let that feline/insect thing run, it would have killed or hurt many others. Right? At least we know the spell works.
23. Did Harry use a Jedi Mind Trick on Detective Green? LOL!
24. Mouse! (view spoiler)[I almost stopped the series right then and there, when I thought he had been killed! (hide spoiler)] I must say, I wasn’t expecting Rawlins and Harry to be kidnapped! That’s a new one. And by Crane and Glau? Did you have any clue as to what or who they were, exactly?
25. And Harry’s being auctioned off to the highest bidder, Duchess Arianna of the Red Court – via eBay!! That’s the widow of Paolo, who Ebenezar dropped the satellite on, so she probably wants revenge. Unless she’s thrilled to be a widow? What of the White Council’s stance on ransom demands? Comments.
26. Do you think Harry will be beholding to Lasciel for the information she gave him about the manacles, or was it a no-strings exchange? But what of her assist in that harrowing escape? Or is Harry on the slippery-slop to Hell?
27. Thomas (view spoiler)[was the one following Harry? Call me shocked. (hide spoiler)] – where you expecting that? Wait. What? Crane is (view spoiler)[Thomas’s cousin, Magrigal Raith? (hide spoiler)] Another shocker. Nevertheless, though he says he is merely a spectator, not the summoner, should Harry trust him? Especially after he threw him under the bus – or rather, the Scarecrow? (BTW: Eep! A Scarcrow with claws?! Butcher has quite an imagination. I couldn’t think up movie character names like that.)
28. Okay, what were the tiny flickers of pale colors, “almost like Saint Elmo’s fire” about Mouse’s feet?
29. So, let me get this straight? What is Thomas’s job? Is he working for the Venatori Umbrorum, the Fellowship of Saint Giles, or the White Council? Or doing his own thing? And he joined the Hunt? Makes sense, right? He’s a predator.
30. Was Glau setting Magrigal up for the fall?
31. The Carpenters! Lord, I wasn’t expecting that. Poor Daniel – poor Molly! “They” have her. Any guesses as to who “they” are?
32. Do you like Father Forthill?