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Philip K. Dick
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Kirsten
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May 24, 2016 09:10AM
Paranoia is one thing. Making it hard to understand is not a benefit.
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I actually prefer his short stories to his novels. The short stories are a lot more focused, while the novels tend to wander about.
I found this quote on Audible.com from one of their editors under the heading "I can't imagine anyone not liking this book""Ubik upset my parents a bit, because I was so absorbed in it during father’s day weekend that I had to keep walking away from their attempts to interrupt with questions about my life. In my defense the story makes such excellent use of its intelligent concept, and is performed so well, that it’s hard to hit pause. Also, it’s not easy to field questions when you are travelling through different iterations of space and time. Sorry, Mom and Dad." -- Michael, Audible Editor
Now, I must be no one because I didn't enjoy this book. I really believe that you might have to be on LSD to understand this book.
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "Now, I must be no one because I didn't enjoy this book. I really believe that you might have to be on LSD to understand this book."I'm 100% sure you're not alone, but you certainly don't have to be on LSD to understand it. All you need to understand it is:
1) To accept that not all narratives are truthful. PKD deals us a big heaping dish of the unreliable narrator with this one.
2) Pay attention to the inexplicable things experienced by the MC along the way. These are all clues to what's going on which -- without getting into spoiler territory -- seem bizarre until you figure out the major twist.
3) Don't let PKD's mind-twisting, warped, and vertiginous habit of shifting our perception of the book's reality throw you for a loop. This is probably where the psychedelic nature of the book really lies, but I think the book's ultimate "what is really going on" is fairly straightforward (after the fact). All the weirdness pretty much makes sense at the end. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of plot holes, but still the overall work is explainable in simple terms.
As for how to like it ... well, not everyone's going to like every book, even classics. PKD did a lot of "shooting from the hip" in his writing because he was a binge writer. Once he had the idea for a story, he would sit down and write the book straight through. Partially that was because it was his obsessive style, partly that was part of the zeitgeist, mostly it was because he needed the $$ to pay his rent RIGHT NOW (which is why a lot of people find his writing sloppy, and why all of his books are pretty short).
Personally, I find the shifting sense of reality in his books their primary feature. It's what I read them for. That and his constant effusion of fascinating ideas. No writer has ever stimulated my imagination like PKD.
UBIK just confused me. Boy did it confuse me.
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "UBIK just confused me. Boy did it confuse me."You should have traveled to the future, read my 3 rules, and THEN read the book! Duh.
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "Only 3?"Well, 3 on how to understand UBIK.
After looking at your most read authors, I'd say maybe just skip PKD altogether? Not that there's anything wrong with who you normally read, but PKD's stories are a lot weirder than the books you seem to prefer. He may just not be someone you like. Which is fine, of course.
P.S. Don't read Maze of Death! ;D
One of the reason I joined this group was to (1) diversify my reading and (2) rediscover science fiction.
I listened to his short story "The Electric Ant" (1969) in an excellent podcast here: http://www.drabblecast.org/2013/02/19...
If needed, the text is available here: http://www.au.dk/fileadmin/www.au.dk/...
This story reads like a sequel to Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? which is the only Dick novel I have read. I liked this story better than the novel! Wonderful philosophical muse.
The Taste of Cinema blog posted this list of the "The 20 Best Movies Adapted from or Inspired by Philip K. Dick". What do you think?http://www.tasteofcinema.com/2017/the...
20. Radio Free Albemuth (2014)
19. Next (The Golden Man) (2007)
18. Paycheck (2003)
17. Impostor (2001)
16. Total Recall (We Can Remember It for You Wholesale) (2012)
15. Predestination (All You Zombies) 2014
14. Dark City (Ubik) (1998)
13. Open Your Eyes (The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch) (1997)
12. Screamers (Second Variety) (1995)
11. eXistenZ (The Game-Players of Titan, The Days of Perky Pat) (1999)
10. The Matrix (1999)
9. Waking Life (Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said) (2001)
8. The Incident (Time Out of Joint) (2014)
7. The Adjustment Bureau (2011)
6. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch) (2004)
5. Total Recall (We Can Remember It for You Wholesale) (1990)
4. A Scanner Darkly (2006)
3. The Minority Report (2002)
2. Blade Runner 2049 (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?) (2017)
1. Blade Runner (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?) (1982)
Any thoughts??
Some of these ‘inspirations’ are fanciful to say the least - also the fact that they think Heinlein’s brilliant ‘All you zombies’ is by PKD casts great doubt on the quality of the thinking here.
Bill wrote: "Some of these ‘inspirations’ are fanciful to say the least - also the fact that they think Heinlein’s brilliant ‘All you zombies’ is by PKD casts great doubt on the quality of the thinking here."Well, in the article, they said that story inspired Dick. Apparently they were friends.
Kirsten wrote: "The Taste of Cinema blog posted this list of the "The 20 Best Movies Adapted from or Inspired by Philip K. Dick". What do you think?http://www.tasteofcinema.com/2017/the......"
I have been reading PDK for a long time (I'm 70 years old). I've seen his progression from a good and while not completely mainstream, not too far outside beginnings. I saw his increasing absorption with what constitutes reality. I learned later that his writing was increasingly influenced by his own deteriorating, or maybe just changing, mental state that led him towards more metaphysical and theological themes.
Before Blade Runner I would have voted PDK the SF author least likely and most difficult to transfer to the movie screen. Blade Runner proved me wrong and, in my opinion also, was the best adaptation. This was accomplished by sticking to the main theme of whether androids can really have human feelings and what does it actually mean to be human. The myriad of supporting themes like Mercerism and the empathy box all support the main themes of real versus unreal, living versus non-living and would have overly complicated the movie. It would have taken a 6 hour mini-series to do the whole "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" story.
"Total Recall (1990)" was a fun movie but quickly moved far beyond the original PDK short story and in doing so lost some of the importance of the central issue, again, of what is reality. "Imposter" also lost some of it's effect by padding out the original short story. Would have been great at about a 1 hour length. I thought the "Adjustment Team" was a good movie even though it strayed pretty far from the original short story.
Some of the movies on the list are either low budget, indies or a combination of both. In most cases I haven't had the opportunity to she them. However I did see "Predestination" and enjoyed very much this adaptation of "All you Zombies".
In general it seems that only a few of this movie adaptations struck very close the the original source story although many were able to evoke the usual themes we associate with PDK. So I would have two different lists. the movies that did the best job of transferring PDK's original story concepts to the big screen and then another list of which movies were the best SF movies
regardless of how much of PDK's ideas they contained.
I didn't see all the movies listed and that includes Blade Runner 2049. I'm sure that's going to be a terrific when I finally see it but I since Blade Runner covered the whole main theme of the original novel this sequel will have to be content with just sticking (I hope) to the themes already expressed in "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"
On the top 20 list I have seen 1,3,5,7,10,14,15,16,17 and18.
So here's my 3 picks for sticking to PDK's original story.
1. All You Zombies
2. Blade Runner
3. Minority Report
Here's my three favorite movies as just good ol' SF.
1. Blade Runner
2. Adjustment Bureau
3. Total Recall (1990)
12/12/17 edit
It must have been past my bedtime when I put "All You Zombies" of my 3 picks for sticking to PDK's original story. I saw it listed as number 15 on the "The 20 Best Movies Adapted from or Inspired by Philip K. Dick" list above. Obviously it was written by Robert Heinlein, not PDK. I still think it was very true to Heinlein's 1959 story but I don't think it was influenced by PDK. Heinlein had already written a time travel story exploring the idea of of paradoxes in 1941 called "By His Bootstraps". I am not aware of PDK writing a story specifically about dealing with the possible paradoxes involved in time travel especially before 1959.
I also think I saw somewhere that one of the streaming sites is starting a PKD short story series.
Chanel 4 in the UK is showing ‘Electric Dreams’ which are adaptations of PKD.
Much as I love Blade Runner the suggestion that it is much closer to the stories than some of the others is simply crazy, it’s just a better movie than the others.
Much as I love Blade Runner the suggestion that it is much closer to the stories than some of the others is simply crazy, it’s just a better movie than the others.
Bill wrote: "Chanel 4 in the UK is showing ‘Electric Dreams’ which are adaptations of PKD.Much as I love Blade Runner the suggestion that it is much closer to the stories than some of the others is simply cra..."
I don't think that any of the movie adaptations can be very close to the original PDK story or novel. But I would think that it would be easier to get close if you are adapting a short story but this doesn't seem to be the case. For the 3 movies I listed above as being closest to what PDK wrote I had to go by how closely it followed the original theme. I still stand by my ranking although there isn't much difference between them. For the movies I actually saw I would rank "Imposter" 4th and "The Adjustment Bureau" 5th.
I agree that "Blade Runner" isn't a lot closer than the others but I still put it 2nd after "Predestination". But, like you, I rank it the best of the movies on the above list that I have seen. Due to personal reasons I haven't gotten out to see "Blade Runner 2049". But i will, even if I have to rent it or see it on TV. But The movie can only be very loosely based on "Do androids Dream of Electric Sheep" because the main storyline was pretty much covered in the original "Blade Runner". I guess what I am trying to say is I expect "BR 2049" to continue the ideas of the original BR movie instead of expanding on any of the stuff that was left out from the original novel.
Technical question ,since returning to goodreads I find that I can make comments but seem to have lost the ability to ‘reply’ to someone else.
Bill wrote: "Technical question ,since returning to goodreads I find that I can make comments but seem to have lost the ability to ‘reply’ to someone else."The Goodreads app lacks several features. If you want to place replies use the Goodreads web site. If you are using the web site, look for a setting named Switch to Desktop setting vs the Mobile setting.
I hope this helps.
As far as the movies I've seen based on his work, the ones closest to his script are: 1) A Scanner Darkly, which deviates only a bit at the ending and errs only in focusing a bit more on the humorous side of the book. I liked this one a lot actually
2) Imposter ... with a caveat. The DVD has(d) a 45 minute or so stripped down version of the movie (as an added feature) which they used for raising funds to finish the film. It is, essentially, a straight out adaptation of the short story it's based on (with a plot twist change at the end) and is WAY better than the full length movie. The full length movie turns out to be nothing more than the short film padded out with chase scenes.
3) Minority Report, which I disliked because of the changes it made (and the actor they used ... can't remember his name; I think he's probably disappeared from Hollywood now **cough**)
4) Screamers, which is a low budget film which deviated a fair bit from the short story but managed, I think, to stay true to the original's psychological content. A decent film for low budget fans. Definitely worth a watch for PKD fans.
5) Blade Runner [The Final Cut]. The best of all the films, even if it's not Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. It certainly captured PKD's envisioned world. And no other film put you so firmly into his mind, I think. The sets, costumes, lighting, sound, etc. was all perfect. And the story in its final form was compelling and pretty awesome. It just WASN'T Do Androids! Really would like to see the real story done.
Radio Free Albemuth was an embarrassment, I thought. Extremely low budget effort that felt very amateur ... And the FX were just ... oh just why did they even try? The whole thing was a disaster.
Most of the others that I've seen were just feature-length chase scenes with only the barest excuse of a plot. I couldn't care less.
But, yeah, a lot of the films on that list were more inspired by than based on PKD's work. You might as well stick Vanilla Sky on there as well, and Inception.
Bill wrote: "Chanel 4 in the UK is showing ‘Electric Dreams’ which are adaptations of PKD."Amazon Prime is going to be showing it sometime soon.
I remember watching Screamers back in the 90s. We picked it up in our local video store solely based on its cover. I really liked it back than.I read the short story only last week and think it’s even better than the movie. It feels even more forlorn and the ending makes more sense too.
Micah wrote: "As far as the movies I've seen based on his work, the ones closest to his script are: 1) A Scanner Darkly, which deviates only a bit at the ending and errs only in focusing a bit more on the humo..."
I agree with you about "Imposter" being too long. I would have liked to have see the 45 minute version. It was a good short story but there wasn't enough there to carry a full length movie.
PKD is one of my top favorite writers. but besides him and maybe Alan E. Nourse i am quite new to the sci-fi book genre.im looking for suggestions for sci-fi authors like PKD or from the same classic era i really love 1960's sci-fi retrofuture
There is no one like PKD(that’s not meant as a compliment) but 2 greats from the same era are Silverberg and Zelazny - try ‘The Stochastic Man’ from the former and ‘Isle of the Dead’ from the latter for a flavour.
I agree with Bill. They broke the mold after PKD.
And I agree with Kirsten, I've looked and have found no one anywhere close to "like PKD."But if you're into PKD and want to read others from his era then maybe start with his collaborative novel Deus Irae (with Roger Zelazny). It has a strange blend of both PKD and Zelazny.
Then of course you could try the first PKD Award winner, Rudy Rucker. He's not really similar to PKD (Rucker is more associated with William Gibson and the early cyberpunk movement) but he is at least as radical as Dick in that he does not shy away from unconventional ideas. Try The Ware Tetralogy.
We are launching a new Philip K Dick themed podcast called Dickheads. We will be reading and reviewing each of Dick's novels once a month in order of publication. Our Solar Lottery episode debuts 4/24/18Hey Dickheads...
Check out the preview episode now:
https://soundcloud.com/dickheadspodcast
Follow us on Twitter @dickheadspod
Like us on Facebook : Dickheads Podcast
Follow us on Instrgram. Dickheads Podcast
Help us spread the word fellow Dickheads!
David wrote: "We are launching a new Philip K Dick themed podcast called Dickheads. We will be reading and reviewing each of Dick's novels once a month in order of publication. Our Solar Lottery episode debuts 4..."Who's "we"?
And good luck!
Micah wrote: "David wrote: "We are launching a new Philip K Dick themed podcast called Dickheads. We will be reading and reviewing each of Dick's novels once a month in order of publication. Our Solar Lottery ep..."Authors David Agranoff and Anthony Trevino but you can listen to the preview episode to get more details.
-David
Bill wrote: "Chanel 4 in the UK is showing ‘Electric Dreams’ which are adaptations of PKD.Much as I love Blade Runner the suggestion that it is much closer to the stories than some of the others is simply cra..."
Agree with that. The film actually opposes Dick's view of the difference between an android an human - empathy.
Actor Michael Sheen is a PKD fan!https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017...
Actor Michael Sheen (Frost/Nixon; The Queen; Midnight in Paris) explores the life of Philip K. Dick with Matthew Parris, and explains why he had such a big influence on his recent production of Hamlet.
Michael first discovered Philip K. Dick through the film Bladerunner, and moved onto his short stories which got him thinking about science-fiction in a new way. Whilst reading about philosophy, quantum physics, and comparative mythology, it struck him how Dick was intuitively weaving narratives around all the most interesting elements that these fields were throwing up.
He talks about Philip K. Dick's innate interest in multiples realities, and how they overlap with Sheen's own family experiences of mental health issues. In fact the more he found out about him, the more he was drawn to this enigmatic writer.
PKD's 7th novel Vulcan's Hammer is considered by many, including Dick himself, to be his worst. But one of our three Dickeads counts it as his favorite so far. Can you guess which one? Plus: Salty ass supercomputers. Bread & Butter Sci-Fi. And a walking simulator.https://soundcloud.com/dickheadspodca...
https://soundcloud.com/dickheadspodcast
New Dickheads episode!Dick's 9th published novel, The Man in the High Castle, is considered by many to be his best. Do you think the Dickheads will agree with this view? Or with each other for that matter? Listen and find out in our super-sized season finale. Plus: Swastikas in space. The Grasshopper of Time.
https://soundcloud.com/dickheadspodca...
David wrote: "PKD's 7th novel Vulcan's Hammer is considered by many, including Dick himself, to be his worst ..."I discovered Dick a couple of years ago and loved him so much I started reading his novels in chronological order. The last one that I read was Vulcan’s Hammer. I still have not written a review of it and I have not moved on to the next novel.
Vulcan’s Hammer made me question whether I want to continue reading chronologically. I needed to take a little break. When I resume, I’ll probably skip ahead to one of the later novels
Susan wrote: "Vulcan’s Hammer made me question whether I want to continue reading chronologically."How were you marking chronological order? By year of composition or year of publication?
Vulcan's Hammer was only his second written SF novel (1953) but it was his seventh published novel (1960). So if you're going by publication date you're not really getting a feel for where he was in is writing career.
The following list is in chronological order of composition (it excludes his non-SF works):
The Cosmic Puppets (Written 1953, Published 1957)
Vulcan's Hammer (Written 1953, Published 1960)
Dr. Futurity (Written 1953, Published 1960)
Solar Lottery (Written 1954, Published 1955)
The World Jones Made (Written 1954, Published 1956)
The Man Who Japed (Written 1955, Published 1956)
Eye in the Sky (Written 1955, Published 1957)
Time Out of Joint (Written 1958, Published 1959)
Confessions of a Crap Artist (Written 1959, Published 1975)
The Man in the High Castle (Written 1961, Published 1962)
Martian Time-Slip (Written 1962, Published 1964)
We Can Build You (Written 1962, Published 1972)
The Game-Players of Titan (Written 1963, Published 1963)
The Simulacra (Written 1963, Published 1964)
Dr. Bloodmoney, or How We Got Along After the Bomb (Written 1963, Published 1965)
The Crack in Space (Written 1963, Published 1966)
Now Wait for Last Year (Written 1963, Published 1966)
Clans of the Alphane Moon (Written 1964, Published 1964)
The Penultimate Truth (Written 1964, Published 1964)
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch (Written 1964, Published 1965)
The Unteleported Man (Written 1964, Published 1966)
The Zap Gun (Written 1964, Published 1967)
Deus Irae (Written with Roger Zelazny 1964, Published 1976)
The Ganymede Takeover (Written with Ray Nelson 1965, Published 1967)
Counter-Clock World (Written 1965, Published 1967)
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (Written 1966, Published 1968)
Ubik (Written 1966, Published 1969)
Galactic Pot-Healer (Written 1968, Published 1969)
A Maze of Death (Written 1968, Published 1970)
Our Friends from Frolix 8 (Written 1969, Published 1970)
Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said (Written 1970, Published 1974)
A Scanner Darkly (Written 1973, Published 1977)
Radio Free Albemuth (Written 1976, Published 1985)
VALIS (Written 1978, Published 1981)
The Divine Invasion (Written 1980, Published 1981)
The Transmigration of Timothy Archer (Written 1981, Published 1982)
I must say that I don't remember Vulcan's Hammer being particularly bad, but Solar Lottery (his first published novel) was only written the year after Vulcan's and I really like that one. I don't remember the other two early ones enough to remark on them.
David wrote: "New Dickheads episode!..."I keep forgetting to check these out when at home. Soundcloud is blocked at my place of work. :(
I’ve been reading in publication order. First I read Ubik just to see if I would like Dick. Then I bought a bunch of early novels and read them as they arrived, so my order wasn’t perfectly chronological at first. By coincidence, my first book after Ubik was The Cosmic Puppets. After that I read . . .
The World Jones Made
Time Out of Joint
Eye in the Sky
The Man Who Japed
Solar Lottery
Dr. Futurity
Vulcan’s Hammer
My next book, going in publication order, is The Man in the High Castle, but I think I’m going to abandon my reading plan for now and skip ahead to Valis. I wanted to read it right after Ubik, but I felt that I needed to get to know Dick better first. But I think having read Ubik and those early novels, I’m ready for Valis now.
I wasn’t a fan of Solar Lottery, Dr. Futurity, and Vulcan’s Hammer. But I really liked The World Jones Made, Time Out of Joint, and Eye in the Sky. The World Jones Made was actually my favorite of the early novels.
Thanks for this list. After I read the Valis trilogy, I might go back to some type of order.
Susan wrote: "My next book, going in publication order, is The Man in the High Castle..."I actually find High Castle to be more like Dick's mainstream novels than his SF. The only SF affectation in it is the alternative history thing. Otherwise, it's totally involved with the social neuroses of the characters, their dysfunction and interpersonal relationships.
So of his SF oeuvre, it's rather an outlier in terms of style and subject matter. At least in my opinion. Valis is ... well, it's a very different beast, indicative of his very late work.
Micah wrote: "I actually find High Castle to be more like Dick's mainstream novels than his SF ..."That’s why I’ll probably skip it for now. I’m mostly interested in Dick’s philosophical and theological themes.
Susan wrote: "Micah wrote: "I actually find High Castle to be more like Dick's mainstream novels than his SF ..."That’s why I’ll probably skip it for now. I’m mostly interested in Dick’s philosophical and theo..."
I wouldn't skip it is important to those themes for sure and it was his first award winning novel. Super valuable read. It was the first novel he wrote unconcerned about making editors happy. Also it has Nazi's with martian colonies - to say it is not Sci-fi is just silly.
Micah wrote: "Susan wrote: "Vulcan’s Hammer made me question whether I want to continue reading chronologically."How were you marking chronological order? By year of composition or year of publication?
Vulcan..."
Thanks for the list. I also try to read my favorite authors in chronological order since I retired. The means I occasionally re-read something I read many years ago. I did read almost everything PDK wrote in "published" order. But that's just for novels. For short stories you need to rely on collections and that makes the chronological issue much more difficult.
It's easy to find lists in published order but much harder to find lists in "year of composition". I notice also that much classic SF was published first as serials in magazines before they were published as books adding more confusion to the "year of composition".
David wrote: "to say it is not Sci-fi is just silly. "Well, I didn't say it wasn't SF, I just said (and think) it has a lot more in common with Dick's non-SF works than it has with his other SF work. It has some SF trappings but its underlying plot and focus is very much more aligned to his mainstream novels.
Science Fiction Aficionados
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Deus Irae (other topics)The Ware Tetralogy (other topics)
Paycheck (other topics)
The Golden Man (other topics)
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