Classics Without All the Class discussion
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Andrew✌️
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Nov 25, 2013 02:12PM

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You're probably right about which angle some critics chose to take. But almost from the start it has had a strong hint of romance even if it is a love unrequited with regard to Jem Wilson's love for Mary. This appears to come to a head in Chapter 7 Jem Wilson's Repulse, when Mary makes it clear that she is not interested in Jem the same way he is interested in her.
I see most of the first 10 chapters as scene setting and Gaskell has left little doubt about the domestic conditions of the central character of her romance.
I understand poor Mary is sought after by the son of a wealthy mill owner, so I assume the early part of the novel depicting the abject poverty of John Barton's fellow factory workers living conditions while on hard times serves as some sort of binary opposition to the comfortable lifestyle of the Carsons.
To me, it sounds as if the critics you allude to are a tad over-critical.
I'm preferring to read the novel first, then have a good laugh at the critics later ;o)
However, one could easily be forgiven in thinking the romantic novel Mary Barton was written with much insight, sympathy and wit by Mrs Friedrich Engels rather than Mrs Elizabeth Gaskell, however, John Barton's political views is part of his character. They are noted, but they do not dominate the early chapters and does not make me think that the novel is primarily political or heavily political. The reader has to have an understanding of the characters and where they are coming from.
Also, in the early part, Mary is only a kid, her life is hard but relatively dull. Although her childhood and back story is detailed it is covered quickly and gets interesting only when Henry Carson makes an appearance in her life.
Before that, there's not one mention of a kiss or hint of sex concerning Mary, because she is an innocent kid.
Sex is implied with the absent Esther, and later we discover that she had become a prostitute.
There are hints that John Barton does not want Mary going down that route by getting factory work, as it appears to be the start of the slippery slope into prostitution.
The lack of obvious romance in the early stages of Mary Barton, to show the reader that she is not a saucy flirt, or girl of loose morals
I suppose, back then even some critics preferred only romance and sex on every page regardless of the political situation which drove the female characters to loosen their morals in the first place :o)

Your "preferring to read the novel first and laugh at the critics later" haha, love it.







I remember with pleasure the first book of this series. Unfortunately, I watched the movie of "The Man in the Iron Mask", but I haven't yet read the book.

The book is very different from the movie, so you didn't miss anything and you haven't seen any spoilers.



How are you liking it, Lea? It's on my TBR list for next year.

How are you liking it, Lea? It's on my TBR list for next year."
Mine too.

I read this a few years back because Ted from How I Met Your Mother was obsessed with it lol. I ended up being severely disappointed.

I have just started it and have no idea what to expect yet,but I loved the first two so we will see....!




I read this a few years back because Ted from How I Met Your Mother was obsessed with it lol. I ended up being severely disa..."
Oh! Don't tell me that! Interesting reason to read a book. lol

How are you liking it, Lea? It's on my TBR list for next year."
So far, so good. The author is extremely descriptive so the story seems to progress slowly. I'm 100 pages in now. Hoping to have most of the day tomorrow to read.

Your the second person to suggest this book. I bought a copy of it and sat it on the shelf for ten years. So please tell me why I should read this book.


I differ with your comparison of movie and book. I could just sit and read the novel for hours, but I was irked by the movies. The book itself opened avenues of thoughts about political science and philosophy. I was inspired to read other books after reading it and a movie has never opened further discussion at all.


Your the second person to suggest this book. I bought a copy of it and sat it on the sh..."
For me I have found I just generally like the writing of Robert McCammon for one thing. I have read more of his books since and liked them. I liked the whole idea of the survivors separating into mini armies. It still does kind of a good vs evil thing but in some ways you could see people really splitting ways and going against each other. There is also some action thrown into the mix especially toward the end. There are a couple ways it is similar to the Stand, but many more differences. Definitely more action than The Stand and moves at a faster pace. I just enjoyed this book basically the whole way through from what I recall.


Just finished it yesterday. Interested to know what you think.

I read this a few years back because Ted from How I Met Your Mother was obsessed with it lol. I ended up being severely disa..."
I was disappointed too. :(

Hi Lea, a tough read, but worth the effort in my opinion...


But the charm is always the same.

Began reading "The Brothers Karamazov" in the beginning of last year, never finished it. Maybe I'll read it this year..


3 stars - not sure what else to say. It had a lot of great viewpoints, beautiful writing, nice story I guess. I just found it a little tedious, not much happening - more descriptive than anything. I know I'll like my next book better.
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