Queen Maas' Assassins discussion
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Crown of Midnight
TOG #2: Crown of Midnight
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Crown of Midnight ~ Plot
i kind of made the same connection, thought of the part in The Assasin and the Underworld where they dance. It had to be Dorian she danced with before Sam said she was taken. I hate that we have to wait till 2014 for book 3 ! :(
If 2014 wasn't so far away I'd pack up my tears and go for several days
Take down the Republic with Day and June
Sail out to find the Still Blue
Kick Sebastian's murderous butt
Give Celaena grief and give the king a Look
Help Misbegotten save the earth
Win a war with the Dead Men (maybe?)
Tell 'em I'll be back when I'm emotionally stable
In the rear-view mirror, I'd watch the few who are still alive wave
Yeah, and losing them wouldn't be so hard to take
If 2014 wasn't so far away...
Okay, I've officially lost it. Thanks for all the death, authors of the world. I hope feeding off of my grief will make you happy.
The Steven Moffats of the literary world.
Bex wrote: "Alisha wrote: "i kind of made the same connection, thought of the part in The Assasin and the Underworld where they dance. It had to be Dorian she danced with before Sam said she was taken."I tho..."
Oh, he definitely was Dorian, I'm sure of it, though as for why he didn't remember Celaena, I don't know. I guess he wouldn't necessarily remember her; it was just one party, and I'm sure he's been to many in the past.
How can we say that it was "definitely Dorian" with any certainty? I don't know. A stranger and sapphire eyes is a bit too weak for me. Especially when there's barely to no reference of its occurrence (this chance meeting) in ToG or CoM. The childhood line in CoM when Dorian reflects on spilling the tea is much more corroboratory. What I can't determine is if Celaena remembers meeting Dorian at that age. Seems like a princess would remember meeting a prince, you know?
He remembers the party in the extra scene featured in the ToG paperback. That scene takes place before they go to Endovier to get Celeana, so he hasn't met Celeana yet.
There is a chance neither of them would remember each other.. just saying, I mean that scene had to be in there for a reason right? but we have 4 more books that's hopefully going to explain it :)
You can read it partly if you go to amazon and 'look inside' the TOG paperback edition. That was a tip I found somewhere else on this forum :)
Bex wrote: "Vera wrote: "He remembers the party in the extra scene featured in the ToG paperback. That scene takes place before they go to Endovier to get Celeana, so he hasn't met Celeana yet."What?! I was ..."
Yeah, it's a cute scene :) You can read it on amazon.com. There are two sections it can give you as a sample. If you get the first one with the title at the start, read until it cuts off, then you can try it again and hopefully it gives you the other half. It's possible to read the whole thing there, it just has to be read in pieces.
Thanks Vera and Allie :)BTW guys, that party that Dorian mentioned can be read in Celaena's view in The Assassin and the Underworld!!!
For those who have read the novellas, you might remember it; Leighfer Bardingale hosted the extremely lavish party at her riverfront house.
Stephanie wrote: "How can we say that it was "definitely Dorian" with any certainty? I don't know. A stranger and sapphire eyes is a bit too weak for me. Especially when there's barely to no reference of its occurr..."Hi Stephanie, to answer your question as to how we can say that it is "definitely Dorian", firstly I apologise for being vague, especially for those who haven't read the novellas, since I was actually just pointing out 'one' relevant part (that the "strangers" eyes were sapphire) so that those who had read the novellas could understand which part I was referencing. There was actually quite a bit more mentioned about the "stranger" (and his companions) than just his sapphire eyes:
Four young men wearing masks stood atop the steps, surveying the crowd. It took all of two heartbeats for her to see that the dark-haired youth was their ringleader, and that the fine clothes and the masks they wore marked them as nobility. Probably nobles looking to escape a stuffy function and savor the delights of Rifthold.
The masked strangers swaggered down the steps, one of them keeping close to the dark-haired youth. That one had a sword, she noticed, and from his tensed shoulders, she could tell he wasn’t entirely pleased to be here. But the lips of the ringleader parted in a grin as he stalked into the crowd.
Gods above, even with the mask obscuring half of his features, he was handsome.
—The Assassin and the Underworld, a Throne of Glass Novella by Sarah J. Maas
. . . skip a little bit . . .
“Some party,” the stranger whispered in her ear. She twisted to see sapphire eyes gleaming at her.
—The Assassin and the Underworld, a Throne of Glass Novella by Sarah J. Maas
. . . skip a little bit again . . .
She grinned, but someone was suddenly between them, a tall, powerfully built person. Sam. He ripped the stranger’s hand off of her wrist.
“She’s spoken for,” he growled, all too close to the young man’s masked face. The stranger’s friend was behind him in an instant, his bronze eyes fixed on Sam.
Celaena grabbed Sam’s elbow. “Enough,” she warned him.
The masked stranger looked Sam up and down, then held up his hands. “My mistake,” he said, but winked at Celaena before he disappeared into the crowd, his armed friend close behind.
Celaena whirled to face Sam. “What in hell was that for?”
“You’re drunk,” he told her, so close her chest brushed his. “And he knew it, too.”
—The Assassin and the Underworld, a Throne of Glass Novella by Sarah J. Maas
Also, if you read the scene that Vera and Allie pointed out (thanks again!!!), which occurs just before he travels to Endovier, Dorian recalls going to an extravagant party "a year ago" at a riverfront estate with Chaol whilst wearing masks, and that he found out later that "Arobynn Hamel, King of the Assassins, and his cabel of notorious killers" had been there.
Hence the only conclusion I could make from all the above is that he was indeed Dorian, and thus his sword-bearing companion was Chaol.
At the very least, this is what Sarah J. Maas seems to be implying.
Thanks Izabella! I haven't read all the novellas so I totally missed this, and additionally, the excerpt in the paperback of ToG. Thanks for clearing it up! That's awesome. Were D and Co. The only ones in masks? I guess I'm wondering how Dorian, especially, wouldn't remember that he'd met Celaena. In The prince and the Captain, he doesn't mentioned Ardalan's Assassin as one of the members that attended specifically, only the Arobynn and his assassins (though it didn't say "all his assassins).I wonder when or if they'll have a conversation about that night in the books. I am very intrigued about how it will be brought up.
Stephanie wrote: "Thanks Izabella! I haven't read all the novella's so I totally missed this, and additionally, the excerpt in the paperback of ToG. Thanks for clearing it up! That's awesome. Were D and Co. The only..."That's alright Stephanie :)
No, Dorian and Chaol weren't the only ones in masks, there were two other young noblemen with them, who were also wearing masks, though who they were was never mentioned.
Honestly, I don't know why Dorian wouldn't remember Celaena. Of course, at the time he didn't know that she could be an assassin, let alone Adarlan's Assassin, so he could only have remembered her as an extremely beautiful young woman (am I the only one who is jealous of her eyes???).
Also, I'm guessing that any alcohol comsumption may have fogged his memory?
. . . . I don't know, that's the only reasoning I can come up with.
Honestly, I don't know why Dorian wouldn't remember Celaena. Of course, at the time he didn't know that she could be an assassin, let alone Adarlan's Assassin, so he could only have remembered her as an extremely beautiful young woman (am I the only one who is jealous of her eyes???).Also, I'm guessing that any alcohol comsumption may have fogged his memory?
. . . . I don't know, that's the only reasoning I can come up with
Well said!
I was wondering the same thing as everyone else initially ("Why didn't he remember her?!") But when I thought about it, honestly i'm not surprised.
Here are some possible reasons:
1. That party was more than a year ago from when ToG started.
2. Celaena was at that party before she ended up in Endovier. She obviously looked different then compared to the time when Dorian saw her fresh out of the mines.
3. It was a late, late night party (I think it was 2am? 3am?). Pair that with drinking and you won't remember much! Also, it was mentioned that this was probably one of many parties he went to.
4. Dorian is a ladies man. Celaena at that point was just one beautiful woman in a whirlwind of faces.
5. Based on the text, I got the feeling that their meeting was quite brief. Probably no more than 5 minutes.
I have a knack for remembering faces myself but in that situation, I'd probably be just as forgetful xD
Rukia wrote: "Hey does anyone think it's strange how a couple times in ToG Celaena & others have mentioned how Dorian is so unlike his parents(ex. blue eyes, personality, magic ability, etc). And now that CoM ha..."I think Dorian is the King's son. The King wiped out all of the magic except for his own and incidentally Dorian's, so how would Dorian be able to channel his own powers if he wasn't the King's son?
"...But it was impossible for Dorian to have power. How could he, when Celaena's own-own magic had disappeared as soon as she returned to this world?"
Sydney wrote: "Rukia wrote: "Hey does anyone think it's strange how a couple times in ToG Celaena & others have mentioned how Dorian is so unlike his parents(ex. blue eyes, personality, magic ability, etc). And n..."I was JUST thinking about this yesterday, Sydney! I'm also intrigued further bc on the "Ask Sarah" thread, she played coy about Dorian's parentage and said we'd basically have to wait and read about it (his past and future) in the books to come. What the hell does that even mean?
Like, I totally think he's the King's son as well, AND he's of royal stock as far as coming from the bloodline of Gavin (his great great ancestor whose eyes he's inherited), so is it that he's not the queen's natural born son? This is just...I don't even know...
I may be wrong about this but i thought Dorian can use magic because he's father can use magic, mainly because he has a Wyrdkey. I mean if Dorian was not he's son, that would not work right?
Alisha wrote: "I may be wrong about this but i thought Dorian can use magic because he's father can use magic, mainly because he has a Wyrdkey. I mean if Dorian was not he's son, that would not work right?"That's pretty much what Sydney and I are both thinking.
Bex wrote: "I agree with Sydney and Stephanie.Ugh. The entire Ask Sarah! thread has me in a tizzy.
I have mixed emotions at the moment. I'm excited and terrified. She said the end of the Chaol/Dorian plot l..."
Gah! Don't be so morbid, mah cherie! Sarah is a really emotional woman. She cries...like real tears for a number of stuff. Happy and sad. I can totally relate because I'm rather sensitive like that myself, though I think she's got me beat.
Anyway, I can't see her killing off Chaol. Like...no. I don't see her doing that to him at all, so I trust he may have some close calls to dying, but that won't actual be the his ending. I'm not saying his ending is with Celaena (though, after that ONE response, I don't even know--do you think she implied they'll be together, or was she just implying that Dorian and Celaena are never going to happen?), but I don't see him dying on us. No way.
I know, the information from the ask Sarah thread has got me wondering all sorts of things!I hadn't really questioned that Dorian was the King's son until I saw that response and now I'm like...what does that mean? Sarah also confirmed though, that Dorian and Celeana share a common ancestor in Elena. So that means he has royal blood in him. Is it possible that his Dad could be like the brother of the king? Or maybe his Mom is of royal blood (and that’s how he’s related to Elena). I feel like since we already had Celeana’s revelation on her parents that it might be a bit much to have another main character suddenly have a surprise parental reveal.. I guess we’ll see. I hope he is the King’s kid though….I don’t want Hollin to have a claim on the throne!
As for killing people, I really hope that none of the main 3 (Celeana, Dorian and Chaol) die. I doubt that any of them will die before the final book, but I hope they don't die at all.
Bex wrote: "I agree with Sydney and Stephanie.Ugh. The entire Ask Sarah! thread has me in a tizzy.
I have mixed emotions at the moment. I'm excited and terrified. She said the end of the Chaol/Dorian plot l..."
Yeah, I also wondered what was going to happen when she said she was crying while writing their scene. What a teaser! I am very curious about what their plot line with entail. I wonder if they will open up to each other about what they know. I wonder if they will re-bond, or fight with each other. I wish the next book wasn't so far away :)
Oh, no, no, no. I will not have another past love resurrected in order to create doubt. This is not The Iron Fey; Sam will not become Calaena's Ariella. I will not stand for that.
Bex wrote: "I'm also very excited for Dorian's love interest!"Do you think it could be Eilidh Lochan?
@Rukia: you're certainly right about their meeting being brief, since Sam interrupted them and practically told Dorian to get lost!! (bittersweet, the novellas were!!)
I want book 3 now!!! *cries in despair*
YES Bex! Who WILL she be? I hope his romance plot line isn't glossed over. I wanna read about about their whole arc in just as much detail as C^2. However, I feel like that's not going to happen :-( and I'll be sad, sad, sad. Sigh. I've gone through Sarah's Pinterest and have tried to piece it together with what I know about the original story and the characters she's posted and named, but I've got nothing.
Ugh! I'll be so disappointed if she's some simpering court lady with a uninteresting sort of personality. I'm mean...already I'm trying to imagine her significance in the overall story to begin with, ya know?
I don't think it's Eilidh, at least so a little birdy told me. I was wondering the same thing, but this person was an original QoG reader and said she was not, and couldn't see that ever happening so...Don't have a clue personally, though.
I feel like Sarah doesn't LOVE Dorian. I mean, he belongs to her and I'm sure she loves him and all--like how authors generally love their Characters, but I think he isn't her most favorite. There may be like 5 people above him at least. I am making this assumption based off her own personal public record of fangirling and discussing her characters. She doesn't come of as impassioned about him as she does say...Chaol, Celaena, Rowan, Manon, and Aedion and...I could continue.
I know, I know. I'm presumptuous and whiny, BUT I LOVE HIM, OKAY?! Like SO MUCH! I get emotional!
Stephanie wrote: "YES Bex! Who WILL she be? I hope his romance plot line isn't glossed over. I wanna read about about their whole ARC in just as much detail ad C^2. However, I feel like that's not going to happen :-..."Well said, Stephanie!! I totally second you on that!
Bex wrote: "Izabella (shadowraith) wrote: "Bex wrote: "I'm also very excited for Dorian's love interest!"Do you think it could be Eilidh Lochan?"
Unless Sarah made a major change I don't think so. Someone ru..."
I can't see Dorian falling in love with a brainless court lady. Whoever the girl is, I'm sure she'll have personality and intellect :)
You know, Lysandra's suppose to come back in the main books. It would be SO hilarious if she caught Dorian's eye. (No, it really wouldn't, but my impatience for book three already at this stage in the process has clearly put me in a crazy mood) Sigh. *side eyes calendar*
Allie wrote: "Bex wrote: "Izabella (shadowraith) wrote: "Bex wrote: "I'm also very excited for Dorian's love interest!"Do you think it could be Eilidh Lochan?"
Unless Sarah made a major change I don't think so..."
True. I hope she's sort of snotty, though. Like someone really sharp and witty and can snark with the best of them w/out being a total bitch.
I kind of hope Celaena will hate her a little too; at least in the beginning. More fun me. Haha!
Ex-gf/bf irrational jealousy always makes me a little happy. I don't know why.
Bex wrote: "Izabella (shadowraith) wrote: "Bex wrote: "I'm also very excited for Dorian's love interest!"Do you think it could be Eilidh Lochan?"
Unless Sarah made a major change I don't think so. Someone ru..."
Oh, thanks Bex!!!
Bex wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "You know, Lysandra's suppose to come back in the main books. It would be SO hilarious if she caught Dorian's eye..."I don't have anything against Lydandra, we don't know her we..."
I don't have a problem with her either. Courtesans need love too! But she was written to be a bit grating in TAatU, so that stuck with me. But I agree with you, I hope she's a newbie character.
God, you guys. 6 or 7 books. That's an estimated 5 years of waiting. Good grief!
Gods above!! By the Wyrd that's an extremely long time!!! XD
I JUST WANT CHAOL + CELAENA = FOREVERIS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK
Apparently so. At least, we'll go through so much torment in the process it will start to feel like we just asked them to sprout wings and start flying around.
Sarah answered a question that was along the lines of "will Chaol and Celaena end up together" and she wrote something like "I can't answer that because it would spoil the series" THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY THE SERIES COULD BE "SPOILED" WAS IF THEY DO NOT.
I'm not being very mature or reasonable, but this series makes me very passionate. Blame Mrs Maas
Yonehara wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "I don't think it's Eilidh, at least so a little birdy told me. I was wondering the same thing, but this person was an original QoG reader and said she was not, and couldn't see t..."Yes, Birdy :-)
Kate wrote: "Sarah answered a question that was along the lines of "will Chaol and Celaena end up together" and she wrote something like "I can't answer that because it would spoil the series" THE ONLY POSSIB..."
Not necessarily. It probably just means that there are bumps in the road before the end of the series. So saying that they end up together wold get rid of the suspense.
Bex wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Anyway, I can't see her killing off Chaol. Like...no. I don't see her doing that to him at all, so I trust he may have some close calls to dying, but that won't actual be the his..."The King may not know though. If the Queen had a love child with someone else, I would think she's keeping that to herself. If it is the Queen who isn't the biological Mother, then she, the King and probably others would know about it. I think that might be harder to keep a secret. In TOG it said that Dorian looked nothing like his father, it was his brother Hollin who does. I'm probably over-analyzing but now I'm kind of freaked by that possiblity. I want Dorian to remain the Crown Prince!
On a different note, I forget...is Roland a cousin on the King's side or the Queens? I'm kind of curious about what his role is going to be in the story. He had to be introduced for a reason.
Allie wrote: "Bex wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Anyway, I can't see her killing off Chaol. Like...no. I don't see her doing that to him at all, so I trust he may have some close calls to dying, but that won't actua..."No. Again, this prospect of Dorian not being the King's son is walking the line of error bc of the fact that Dorian has magic. The only logical and explainable reason why Dorian would have been able to retain/have that magic is by extension of his father, the King (since he his eliminated all magic but his own). Also, Dorian is confirmed royal stock because of Gavin. We should probably focus our efforts in figuring out how the king is related to Gavin then...I think, maybe.
Bex wrote: "I'm with Stephanie. Dorian has to be the King's son. Allie wrote: "On a different note, I forget...is Roland a cousin on the King's side or the Queens? I'm kind of curious about what his role is ..."
Is it horrible that I can't picture the King having siblings?
Aedion is her cousin? Noooooo. I know this is in a different age and all but, really? I sincerely hope incest isn't apart of the next books. By the way, I just re-read the last chapter of CoM (for like the millionth time) because it is so utterly epic! I love how each revelation hits Chaol and he just can't comprehend it. It also magnifies Celaenas downright badassness. Who else agrees?
Also, do you guys know/think that Arobyn killed her parents/ the family? Because it said "the assassin returned to the house and disposed of Aelin in the river" or something when Aelin was found on the river bed, by Arobyn, an assassin? But then again apparently the king killed them with his power so... Idk thoughts?
I don't think she falls for her cousin, Aedion. In QoG she has a thing with the prince, I think. The one whom she's to kill. It's my understanding that original 22yo Celaena was a bit of a girl who appreciated her sexual freedom. Not that she was sleeping around or anything, but she did seem to have emotional connections at least enough to make out with a few guys. Jsjs
Original FP readers seem to love Aedion and Rowan a lot in general. I don't think the Aedion love has to do with shipping C/A, just that he was a great male character to crush on. In the Ask Sarah post, someone brings up whether he'll act like a big brother to C and also inquires why he works for the king knowing he assassinated his extended family and such. She said she couldn't say bc she didn't want to spoil
Bex wrote: "Oh. Okay. Thanks, Stephanie! I had no idea Celaena was older in the original story. And I think it would be nice for Celaena to have someone brotherly around. I'd like to see that!"
I would just like to see someone Celaena cares about not die, betray her, drift apart, or do something she views irredeemable.
Seriously...her life kind of sucks relationship wise. Everyone she cares about has either lied to her or betrayed her at some point in these novels/novellas.
Or, she's just so untrusting of them all she drives everyone who could possibly love her away. Near the end of the book, she mentions something about having no where else to go to Dorian. Well, yes, that does tend to happen when one refuses to let anyone in or even give them basic trust. Really, I don't feel all that bad for Celaena.
I wonder if we'll meet any Crochan Witches in future books?
Izabella (shadowraith) wrote: "I wonder if we'll meet any Crochan Witches in future books?"
If I'm not mistaken (since I read the draft @FP AGES ago) , then yes,we will. But there'll definitely be Fae(s) though...
If I'm not mistaken (since I read the draft @FP AGES ago) , then yes,we will. But there'll definitely be Fae(s) though...
I hope so!!! That would be so cool :)Ughh, I just want the books already!!
And I can't wait for the Fae!!
Queen Maas' Assassins
Books mentioned in this topic
The Assassin and the Pirate Lord (other topics)The Assassin and the Desert (other topics)
The Assassin and the Underworld (other topics)
The Assassin and the Empire (other topics)
The Assassin and the Empire (other topics)
More...
Yeah, I thought about this, too. He does not resemble his father. In ToG it says: "But Dorian, tall toned and elegant, bore no resemblance to him (his father)And the..."
When she mentioned that Dorian's eyes looked familiar, I had thought that referred to a part in The Assassin and the Underworld:
“Some party,” the stranger whispered in her ear. She twisted to see sapphire eyes gleaming at her.
where the "stranger" was Dorian, though it does make sense that she might have vague memories of Dorian from when they were both children and he spilt tea on her dress.
BTW: I'm finished and it was sooo awesome, I'm dying for book 3 already!