2. THOMAS JEFFERSON: THE ART OF POWER - CHAPTERS 4 - 6 (37 - 75) ~ November 26th - December 2nd - No Spoilers, Please

[Bryan]

Hello Everyone,

This is Week Two for Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power.

This week's reading assignment is:

Week Two - November 26th - December 2nd -> Chapters FOUR, FIVE, and SIX p. 37 - 75

FOUR - Temptations and Trials, FIVE - A World of Desire and Denial, and SIX - Like a Shock of Electricity

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book is being kicked off on November 19th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

A SPECIAL THANK YOU TO RANDOM HOUSE FOR THEIR KINDNESS AND GENEROSITY.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bryan Craig will be moderating this discussion.

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

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Notes:

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Table of Contents and Syllabus:

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Welcome,

~~Bryan

by Jon Meacham

[Bryan]

Chapter Overviews and Summaries

Chapter Four: Temptations and Trials

In his persona life, we find that TJ was in love with a married woman: Elizabeth Walker, however, she resisted his advances. He began to build his home on top of a little mountain by leveling it and planted a garden. His Shadwell house burned in February, 1770, and he lost letters and his books.

In 1768, TJ was elected to the House of Burgesses. After the royal governor closed it down for protesting the Townshend Acts, TJ and some of the members reconvened in the Raleigh Tavern. They decided to ban all taxed items. On the slavery issue, in 1769, TJ wrote a bill to transfer power of slave emancipation from county courts to slave owners. He also took on a case about a slave who is of mixed race could be freed. The bill failed and he lost the case. He retreated a bit on the slavery question and even wrote an advertisement in the local paper about getting his runaway slave back.

Chapter Five: A World of Desire and Denial

TJ courted Martha Wayles Skelton. She was cultured, loved music, and had the ability to put TJ at ease. Martha lost her mother early in life and her father, John Wayles, remarried twice. John Wayles also slept with Elizabeth Hemings and had six kids with her, one being Sally Hemings. She married Bathurst Skelton, but he died in September 1768. TJ and Martha married in 1772 and they moved to Monticello. The next year was a tough one when TJ's best friend, Dabney Carr, died and Martha's father died leaving his son-in-law with an estate deep in debt. Martha brought the Hemings over to Monticello.


Chapter Six: Like a Shock of Electricity

In the spring of 1774, TJ was moving toward independence as he stood with Massachusetts and the acts of the Boston Tea Party. At the county level, he wrote a county resolution and a ban on British goods. He then wrote A summary View of the Rights of British America, for a larger audience. It was printed and many leaders such as George Washington and John Adams were impressed by it.

[Bryan]

We do sense a world of contradictions: somewhat awkward young man, but flirts with Elizabeth Walker, a married woman. What are your thoughts as you read about this flirtation?

[Mark]

Bryan wrote: "We do sense a world of contradictions: somewhat awkward young man, but flirts with Elizabeth Walker, a married woman. What are your thoughts as you read about this flirtation?"

Was it love or lust? I’m not sure how religious Jefferson was. He certainly was a calculating man. Somehow Carly Simon’s song “Your So Vain” enters my head.

[Bryan]

Good question, Mark. It could have been lust. I suspected he had difficulty with organized religion as a young man, being a child of the Enlightenment.

[James]

How awkward was he really? The descriptions and his accomplishments leave me imagining someone quite confident in life in general. But maybe those are not mutually exclusive traits.

[Greg]

I've enjoyed the book so far. It is very well written. It is not a typical biography. The subtitle, The Art of Power, is appropriate. Meacham does not seem to be attempting to tell Jefferson's life story, but rather is describing his education as a political figure in the wielding and use of power and influence.

[Bryan]

I agree, Greg, he seems to be seeing the Jefferson story through the lens of power.

How do you think Meacham defines power?

Also, this follows the same line of thinking in Caro's works on LBJ:

Robert A. Caro

[G]

The attribute that strikes me most among the books I am reading (Caro and Meacham) is that those with power know how to 'engage' those without it, and manage/manipulate those with more power. They do it in different ways, but they do it. Meacham, so far, seems to define Jefferson's power, not by his oratory, which is described as less than ideal, but through the logic and native appeal of his written words. This power is his ability to get his point of view across, and get others to buy into it. I especially saw this in the rapid publication of his Summary View (Pps 72-73 ARC copy)

by Robert A. Caro

[Bryan]

Well said, G, thank you for that. As you say, influencing people is a big aspect of power. For TJ, it is words, combining ideas into political action.

[Jill H.]

Although Jefferson's words in the A Summary View.... were harsh, he, at this point was not calling for complete separation from Great Britain. (Chpt.6). Do you think he was was "easing" the county's way to open revolution/warfare and therefore tempered his language to keep Britain off balance and allow America to organize into a viable force......buying time?

[David]

Always interesting to read about some of the most brilliant men's shortcomings such as his fidelity. Sadly, in today's world, his intelligence could potentially be never realized if he were in a similar position of power.

[Bryan]

Jill wrote: "Although Jefferson's words in the A Summary View.... were harsh, he, at this point was not calling for complete separation from Great Britain. (Chpt.6). Do you think he was was "easing" the county'..."

I think you could argue that TJ was easing the country into revolution, maybe not everyone was all in for a full break at that point.

[Bryan]

David wrote: "Always interesting to read about some of the most brilliant men's shortcomings such as his fidelity. Sadly, in today's world, his intelligence could potentially be never realized if he were in a s..."

You might be right, David. Today, Elizabeth could have written a memoir or got a lot of money for her story, then TJ would be faced with major crisis management.

[Shelly♥]

"Jefferson sought refuge...in a familiar pastime: flirting." (Kindle location 1235)

I had to laugh out-loud when I read that. That would not be a pastime I would put on TJ's list.

[Sherry]

Regarding the embarrassing affair with Alice Walker: I found this a rather haunting sequence. He behaved inappropriately, and for a man in other ways so sensitive to others feelings, I wonder why he continued this over years. Can he not take "no" for an answer? I wonder does she ever say in all those meetings, "Please, I'm married, don't come back"? He keeps up until he sneaks into her room during a party, pretending to be sick, and she screams and he runs away. (p. 41) He is almost a stalker.

[Bryan]

Shelly♥ wrote: ""Jefferson sought refuge...in a familiar pastime: flirting." (Kindle location 1235)

I had to laugh out-loud when I read that. That would not be a pastime I would put on TJ's list."

Nor put on his tombstone. Yeah, we get a side of TJ that you don't read a lot about or get on the Monticello tour. I think it shows his human side.

[Bryan]

Sherry wrote: "Regarding the embarrassing affair with Alice Walker: I found this a rather haunting sequence. He behaved inappropriately, and for a man in other ways so sensitive to others feelings, I wonder why ..."

Sherry, I was a little put off, too. Youthful passion, perhaps? This is just a guess, but I imagine she was ok with just talk, maybe a little innocent flirting, but then she says no more and he crossed the line of polite society. Crazy.

What does this say about his passion?

[Joanne]

Bryan wrote: "Sherry wrote: "Regarding the embarrassing affair with Alice Walker: I found this a rather haunting sequence. He behaved inappropriately, and for a man in other ways so sensitive to others feelings..."

We tend to think of TJ as passionate about ideas, but not passionate in the way we see Patrick Henry, for example. We imagine TJ as less fiery, calmer, but persistent. Much of what he wants, he gets. Perhaps Mrs. Walker became a challenge. Perhaps she sent mixed signals. As to the moral question, TJ was very laissez-faire in his Christianity; indeed a child of the Enlightenment. Recall that he edited The Bible to suit himself.

by Thomas Jefferson

[Bryan]

Thanks, Joanne. Yeah, I can see TJ's passions are there, but they are expressed differently than a Patrick Henry. Interesting about seeing the situation as a challenge. I haven't thought about it in that way. He did like a challenge, I think.

Don't forget to add a bookcover and author photo & link:

Thomas Jefferson

[Joanne]

Bryan wrote: "Thanks, Joanne. Yeah, I can see TJ's passions are there, but they are expressed differently than a Patrick Henry. Interesting about seeing the situation as a challenge. I haven't thought about i..."

Fixed. Love that edit button.

And, yes, TJ LOVED a challenge. Whether it be in architecture, botany, or farm management. Forever and ever improving! Married women can be quite flirtatious, feeling safe from dangerous liaisons. Maybe it was Mrs. Walker who went too far. Just a thought....

[Joanne]

Also, recall in the book's Prologue, the reaction Mrs. Margaret Bayard Smith had to her husband's guest. (pp xxiv-xxv) Mrs. Smith was caught up by the gentleman's quick move from "commonplace topics" to those of a much more intimate (my word) nature. "There was something in his manner, his countenance and voice that at once unlocked my heart." TJ comes across as very charming indeed!

[Mark]

Joanne wrote: "We imagine TJ as less fiery, calmer, but persistent. Much of what he wants, he gets."

Joanne’s take is very interesting. Because the very gifted TJ was used to getting his way, maybe it’s more of a reflection on his power versus passion.

[Joanne]

Mark wrote: "Joanne wrote: "We imagine TJ as less fiery, calmer, but persistent. Much of what he wants, he gets."

Joanne’s take is very interesting. Because the very gifted TJ was used to getting his way, mayb..."

And the title of the book is "The Art of Power." TJ demonstrates early his artful ways....

[Bryan]

Another interesting theme Meacham writes about is TJ's love of order. For the Shadwell fire, he writes:

"Jefferson had spent almost a decade in the study and the practice of law, an undertaking based on the premise that men could, with some limitations, construct an order that enabled them to exert some power over the affairs of the world." (p. 45)

Control is another aspect of power, I think.

[Joanne]

Bryan wrote: "Another interesting theme Meacham writes about is TJ's love of order. For the Shadwell fire, he writes:

"Jefferson had spent almost a decade in the study and the practice of law, an undertaking b..."

The desire to bring order out of chaos is absolutely a key aspect of TJ's personality. One just has to walk at Monticello to see the evidence at every turn. Reshaping nature to fit his design or his needs or the needs of the community fascinated him. He redirected waterways, imported European species of plants, etc. But did TJ really need to control what he organized? They don't always go hand in hand, especially for a Deist. Hopefully, Meacham will address this question as the book goes on.

[Ann D]

Regarding Jefferson's pursuit of a married woman, thank you Mark for this comment: "Somehow Carly Simon’s song “Your So Vain” enters my head." You made me laugh, but there is also probably a lot of truth in it.

I wonder how many of us could stand such scrutiny of every act committed in our more foolish younger days.

Joanne makes a good point that Mrs. Walker could have shut him down immediately if she had really wanted to.

[Peter]

I wonder how many, if any, of the founding fathers could be elected president today. Many were deists or atheists or agnostics. Several had affairs (often openly). Many were radicals.

[Kevin]

Peter wrote: "I wonder how many, if any, of the founding fathers could be elected president today. Many were deists or atheists or agnostics. Several had affairs (often openly). Many were radicals."

So far Meacham hasn't said much about TJ's religious beliefs. I hope he does later; I wonder how open he was about his non-orthodox religious views when he was elected.

[Ann D]

Interesting observation, Kevin.

I noted that Jefferson was not above using organized religion for his political ends. This was detailed in Chapter 6, pages 69-70, which describes how he promoted The Day of Fasting and Prayer in churches to arouse mass support against the British.

He was not conventionally religious, but he knew that most of the people were.

[James]

Jill wrote: "Although Jefferson's words in the A Summary View.... were harsh, he, at this point was not calling for complete separation from Great Britain. (Chpt.6). Do you think he was was "easing" the county'..."

I don't think he was necessarily easing the county as much as pushing forward with an evolving vision, a vision that obviously will evolve even more radically. I like the quote "It was a rich man's revolution and Jefferson was a rich man. It was a philosophical revolution and Jefferson was a philosophical man." (p. 68) He is both testing the philosophy and his power through great communication combined with great ideas with the A Summary View.

[James]

I am intrigued with the books that he read and all of his study of English history. This clearly must have shaped his philosophy and vision. It had never occurred to me that some of the colonists would have concluded that they had fewer rights than their ancestors did.

[Marc]

I admit, I think Jefferson is one of those 'do as I say, not as I do' guys. His desire for Elizabeth (betsy) Moore highlights that. It kinda reminds me of that movie Troy (which I know is fictional and heavily deviates from the Iliad), where Paris steals away and goes to the bedroom of Helen/Menelaus). Here though, "Helen" (Betsy) throws out "Paris" (TJ).

[Marc]

arrgh! I had another comment, then goodreads went down, my comments are lost... grrr

[Marc]

One thing I noticed with chapter 6 is Meacham didn't describe why the English kept raising taxes, limiting lands, etc., nor did he make that much of a case on how difficult it was for many colonists to go against England. Perhaps that's not the point of his book (Art of power), but if this is your only book about TJ you read, then you are missing out on some key information.

[Marc]

I've been reading Ron Chernow's Washington, A Life at the same time. Ron Chernow

Likely the primary reason why England kept taxing the colonists is to pay for the costs of the French and Indian war (Seven years war is what it's known in Europe). Strangely enough, it may have been partly young George Washington's fault. He, along with some militia and Native American warriors, fought with a small group of Frenchmen. Regardless of whose at fault, the French blamed the death of Ensign Joseph Coulon de Villiers on the English (remmember, at the time, nearly all colonists were English subjects). Quoting Horace Walpole (in London), 'The volley fired by a young Virginian in that backwoods of America set the world on fire.'

[Marc]

Many colonists struggled with the idea of independence. Lots of them, including Washington, hoped to stay English, and thought the English parliament was the reason behind the taxes, and thought if only the King would stop being misled, he would change things back so the colonists could stay loyal. The colonists put up with a lot of crap, being looked down upon, being cheated by English merchants/traders, etc, as TJ's Summary View of the Rights of British America alludes to. King George, open your breast, treat us fairly, implying if you do, we will stay loyal to England. At least that's my interpretation!

[Bryan]

James wrote: "Jill wrote: "Although Jefferson's words in the A Summary View.... were harsh, he, at this point was not calling for complete separation from Great Britain. (Chpt.6). Do you think he was was "easing..."

Do you get the impression his thoughts on revolution was for breaking up with Britain fairly early, or was it gradual?

[Bryan]

Marc wrote: "Many colonists struggled with the idea of independence. Lots of them, including Washington, hoped to stay English, and thought the English parliament was the reason behind the taxes, and thought if..."

Thanks for the great comments, James and Marc. Goodreads can be wonky sometimes. Sorry you lost your earlier post, Marc.

I agree, this was not a "slam dunk" revolution. Many colonists were scared and it took time and argument to get many on-board. Meacham gives us a little background, but I agree, I think he didn't want to get too deep into the "times" of TJ.

If you want to read more context, I'm putting Meacham's bibliography on our thread, and he has listed some great books from there.

[Katy]

I did not realize the extent of the debt that the "rich" colonists owed to Britain.

I also always thought of TJ as being an older statesman, but here he is at 31 and quite involved already. Nice first section and entrance into the revolutionary period.

[Jim]

I see by the comments that the why of the revolution is in discussion. You might think about adding

The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution
By
Bernard Bailyn

It is a wonderful read.

Jim

[Clayton]

I have never seen any photo's of Jeffersons wife or Sally and was just wondering if there was any physical resemblance between the two. Being they were half sisters starts me to thinking that maybe her request for Jefferson not to remarry could be based in part on jealousy of her half sister. Could she have been afraid for Jefferson and his future if he had freed and then married Sally. I am aware of her troubled upbringing by a step mother but the mind can make a person do irrational things when jealousy enters into the equation. Who knows maybe Jefferson was already having an affair with Sally before his wife's death.

[Bryan]

Kathy wrote: "I did not realize the extent of the debt that the "rich" colonists owed to Britain.

I also always thought of TJ as being an older statesman, but here he is at 31 and quite involved already. Nice ..."

Yeah, he got involved with the revolution at a pretty young age. Hamilton was younger, but he was more on the battlefield at this point.

It is good to see a young TJ to remind us his humaneness, I think.

[Bryan]

Thank you, Jim. Don't forget to add a bookcover and author photo:

Bernard Bailyn

[Bryan]

Clayton wrote: "I have never seen any photo's of Jeffersons wife or Sally and was just wondering if there was any physical resemblance between the two. Being they were half sisters starts me to thinking that maybe..."

Clayton, there are no images of Sally or Martha, sorry to report. Your thoughts about the married pledge is covered in an upcoming week, so hold on and we can discuss this interesting aspect of TJ's personal life. I'm glad you reminded us about this, so we don't forget to talk about it later on.

[Ann D]

Clayton,
Sally was 30 years younger than TJ and only 9 years old when Jefferson's wife died, so I don't think jealousy of Sally was a factor. Still, jealousy in some way must have entered in, if only for a future rival.

Martha must have seen family resemblances between her white family and her mixed race siblings whom she inherited from her father. Sally's mother, who was the mistress of Jefferson's father-in-law, was herself half-white. That made Sally three-quarters white and her own children seven-eighths white. From our perspective, it is very difficult to understand this enslaving of relatives.

I also find it hard to understand Martha making Jefferson promise not to remarry. She herself had been married before Jefferson, and most people had more than one spouse due to the high death rate. By Meacham's account, they had a very happy marriage, based on many shared interests. Perhaps that made it harder for her to let him go, but it was selfish.

[Bryan]

Resolution Day of Thanksgiving and Prayer:

This House being deeply impressed with Apprehension of the great Dangers to be derived to British America, from the hostile Invasion of the City of Boston, in our Sister Colony of Massachusetts Bay, whose Commerce and Harbour are on the 1st Day of June next to be stopped by an armed Force, deem it highly necessary that the said first Day of June be set apart by the Members of this House as a Day of Fasting, Humiliation, and Prayer, devoutly to implore the divine Interposition for averting the heavy Calamity, which threatens Destruction to our civil Rights, and the Evils of civil War; to give us one Heart and one Mind firmly to oppose, by all just and proper Means, every Injury to American Rights, and that the Minds of his Majesty and his Parliament may be inspired from above with Wisdom, Moderation, and Justice, to remove from the loyal People of America all Cause of Danger from a continued Pursuit of Measures pregnant with their Ruin.

Ordered, therefore, that the Members of this House do attend in their Places at the Hour of ten in the Forenoon, on the said 1st Day of June next, in Order to proceed with the Speaker and the Mace to the Church in this City for the Purposes aforesaid; and that the Reverend Mr. Price be appointed to read Prayers, and the Reverend Mr. Gwatkin to preach a Sermon suitable to the Occasion.
(Source: The Papers of Thomas Jefferson Digital Edition, ed. Barbara B. Oberg and J. Jefferson Looney. Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, Rotunda, 2008, http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/fo... [accessed 30 Nov 2012])

[Bryan]

This quote is interesting about the Resolution and Summary View:

"...Jefferson had appealed to his audience's sense of justice, which one would expect in the litigation of grievances, but also to its sense of destiny...he deployed both the particular and the universal...In so doing he mastered the art of rhetorical political leadership by appearing at once concerned about the needs of his people and attentive to their innate need to be part of a larger drama that imbues daily life with mythic stakes." (p. 73)

I think it is unusual for someone to understand both planes of the particular and have a long range view of history and struggle.

[Heather C]

Sherry wrote: "Regarding the embarrassing affair with Alice Walker: I found this a rather haunting sequence. He behaved inappropriately, and for a man in other ways so sensitive to others feelings, I wonder why ..."

I thought that was a sort of creepy moment too when I was reading that. From the way it sounds, she didn't encourage him so he really needed to back off.

[Heather C]

Kathy wrote: "I did not realize the extent of the debt that the "rich" colonists owed to Britain.

I also always thought of TJ as being an older statesman, but here he is at 31 and quite involved already. Nice ..."

I always think of him as much older when entering politics too. It was interesting to see how his early forays into politics went - such as how short his first session was!