Why Straight Women Love Gay Romance
discussion
GROUP READ: For Everyone Who's As Curious As Me...
LisaT - We Are Qhuay! wrote: "Here's a link to Dreamer's poll:http://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/70...
I might add a question or two...any suggestions?"
Perhaps a poll on how hardcore m/m fans like their fiction?
Wow...good discussions here. I don't read MM, but that is not to say that elements are interesting to me. I just don't relate to those books. MMF in the same way. I guess I put myself in the heroine role of every book and imagine/escape...could that be me??? Well, in MM, the answer is no! They don't want me! They never will want me! I love having those characters in stories though (BDB and Rough Riders for example)...the series are great with every combination and variation, plus bromance, chick love, friends, frenemies, etc...all good. But the MM seems more like voyourism to me since it would never apply to me in real life. Just my thoughts...that said, I am so reading Quinn and Blay's book!!!@Dhes, I laughed at your DH about the gay neighbours...my hubbies is very macho and handsome and as luck would have it, very attractive to gay men. He does get hit on and approached, but he is so sweet about it and usually makes a friend or two! He learned long ago when his best friends brother was in the closet and then committed suicide rather than have his family find out. Hard core Irish Catholics! So, he is so kind to the gays, lets them down solidly, but still kind! Maybe if people had Jesus' love for people there would be less homophobia and hate!
Oooh, I like that. Like an intensity level, maybe?Also thinking about our reasons for why we read m/m as a poll. I'll work those up for a little later.
Thanks Dreamer :D
How did I get into m/m romance... My first foray into general erotica was years ago when I discovered Anne Roquelaure's (Anne Rice) Sleeping Beauty trilogy in a local bookstore. I remember carrying all 3 books blushing furiously to the cash register and just devouring them. I was much younger with 2 young kids and these books just threw me for a loop -- they're mostly m/f but with some m/m bits here and there that didn't turn me off at all. That was it for a while, don't know why but I didn't read any other erotica for some time. My tastes have always been rather eclectic... Then I started reading Ward's Black Brotherhood books on a friend's rec (got up to number 7 or 8) and wanted MORE Blay & Quinn, forget the other dudes. So I got frustrated with that tease, fell out of reading those, and realized that I was intrigued with the whole m/m dynamic. I bought some books from Amazon, I remember Kate Steele's Male of the Species (shifter) being one of the first and a few Emma Holly books for m/f interest but I got more interested in m/m and I was hooked. Then came the Kindle and I didn't need to *blush* about reading erotica anywhere and anytime.
I confess that if I could have a penis for a day I'd jump at it (ha!) and make haste while the getting is good. I love being a woman, have no issue with my gender identity, and wouldn't trade it but I am intrigued by how the other side feels. I think if more people read m/m romance the world would be a better place *grin*!!
Love the thought of having a penis for a day! There's a story there for sure :))
Anne wrote: "Love the thought of having a penis for a day! There's a story there for sure :))"So weird... I don't discuss my m/m fascination with my husband, pretty sure he wouldn't be interested. But I have discussed the whole penis thing. I SWEAR it's not envy... or is it? They're just too damn cool and pretty, though I do tease him about the whole dangly thing. I mean, really, vulnerable much? Anywhoo, a fantasy where being able to switch between would be AWESOME Anne!!!! Let us know if the muse strikes you.
Ha, Elizabetta! I might be having way too much fun to write it!! :))
@LisaT - you'll be amazed at the responses that are in this book. I was lucky enough to go on this journey with Geoff (quite a few Skype calls between us) and I think that if nothing else, the responses from the ladies didn't hold back any punches. From Suz Brockmann's fantastic opening essay through to Laura Baumbach's essay about Passion, no one held back their opinions on why they read it, why the write it, to how their family/friends view their "guilty pleasure of m/m" reading. I've actually got a request form you in my inbox...I'll be emailing. The book will go live next Friday (maybe Thursday night).
Kris Jacen - Executive Editor, MLR Press
Kris did an amazing job of editing this book, and came up with fantastic ideas along the way. In fact, we changed the front cover to add her name to it, she worked so hard on the book. For some reason the cover on Goodreads is the old cover (without Kris' name on it) and I can't figure out how to change it. Can anyone give me any tips or a helping hand??
Hey Kris and Geoffrey, did someone help you change the cover? The edition that I see has Kris' name on it, on GR.Kris, it's great to know the responses are so open and unreserved. As you can see, by this thread, there isn't a lot of holding back here either. I think that's what we're all after, real answers and real confirmation that we're not alone in our "guilty pleasure". It can be isolating to not be comfortable talking with friends and family about what we read.
~~~~~~~
Geoffrey, I would love to know if you took on this project thinking it would be a serious (hard facts)endeavor or were you looking at it from an entertainment perspective. There would be value in both approaches, so I'd love to have an understanding of what you wanted to achieve.
Hey Lisa, one of my authors is a GR Librarian so she changed the cover for us.I'm working on the ARC/galley proof right now so it's getting really close.
I think Geoff's introduction explains the thought that started this all.
Kris Jacen
Great! Btw, I think the response to the cover alone has been pretty positive. He's adorable ;)Also, good to hear about the intro, I'll look forward to that.
:D
Hi Lisa,I took on this project for the simple reason that I wanted to know the answer too! I've been asked so many times why straight women love gay romance, and I never really had an answer, at least not one that was anything other than a personal theory. So I thought, I might as well ask the question and write about it.
It started out quite small, but the more women I spoke to, the more I knew that this was something that needed to be discussed. This subject needed a light shone on it for several reasons, many of which you guys have already touched on, namely that gay romance deserves more respect than people give it, and that m/m readers also deserve respect. They also need to know they're not alone. I think there would be many many more women reading gay romance if they realised it's not taboo, it's okay to read these books! I wanted to lift the stigma. I want women and their husbands and their friends and family to know that there's nothing wrong with reading gay romance. In fact, it's liberating and enlightening and for a lot of women it's great for their sex life too!
I also wanted the world to discover how important readers of m/m romance are in the fight for equality, something that became staggeringly evident the more I delved into this project.
This project started in a very real and honest place, and I think that honesty and openness is evident in every answer in the book. This has been one of the best and most important experiences of my life!
Several people have made very good points about seeing some of the same plot structures in mainstream romance and finding them fairly boring. And I don't think it's necessarily the structures that are to blame since there are some really great writers still writing interesting books that use some common tropes, they just know how to make that material feel fresh. In many cases, I'm realizing that just as I am becoming a more avid reader of m/m I am also supporting more writers who are self-publishing or working with smaller publishers when I read both m/m and f/m romance. Literally, 99% of the books I've been reading and loving are not by writers who are under contract with major publishers for the most part, outside of Ward and some other authors I support regardless of where they publish.
My husband doesn't know I read m/m, or if he does he's never brought it up. Then again, he doesn't bring up most of the things he sees in my Kindle library. LOL.
How I got to this point? Lovely threesomes, such as Shayla Black's Dangerous Boys and their Toy". I foUnd myself enthralled by the two men and skipped over the m/f interactions. What can I say? I was hooked!!! There are other 'gateway' stories that reeled me in (Brockman), but those are the ones that stand out.Why I stay - the gender dynamics. While I concur wholeheartedly that a good story is a good story regardless of the sex of te participants, I find a higher percentage of enjoyable books in m/m, so much so that I have given up m/f entirely. In general, (as others have mentioned) find the power dynamics to be much more equal, or if not, at least it (tends not to be) as stereotypical. I'm over the weak pliable female character.
I think too, I am more able to enjoy 'edgier' stories, simply because it feels a step removed (or fantasy based).
Also, while it is often overdone, I like to be able to empathize with the general 'underdog' mentality, or the basic societal challenges faced my m/m couples in these stories). I can empathize at a higher level, and apply those emotions/struggles/challenges to individuals I know (or don't know) in real life.
And yes, two men are just double the fun :)
I'm pretty interested in reading the book too -- it sure comes in a right time, since I have been wanting to do a small research for my own education purpose. ANYWAAAAYYYYY;
My story is a little bit different -- I don't come to MM foray from books. In fact, I started from television and movies. I think it is all started with "Brokeback Mountain", although I do watch a couple of television series with gay characters in it (Friends, Sex and the City) -- and always wonder about their (love) story because the characters are not the main focus. Although, come to think of it, my first thought of same gender slashing would be a femslash, during Xena/Gabrielle TV show *lol*.
But after Brokeback Mountain (and later I found movies like Maurice, Shelter, Latter Days, and even Queer As Folk) I decide that I wanted to try the books too. I actually started with few fictions, like Giovanni's Room, Midnight Cowboy, Brokeback Mountain novella, Call Me By Your Name ... until I found Bart Yates's young adult, Leave Myself Behind. I was so in love with it!!!
And of course, Amazon.com acknowledged purchased on gay literature and started to bring out some gay romances on their recommendations. My next found brought me to Josh Lanyon's "Adrien English" series ...
... and after that, like they say, is history :)
Geoffrey,It almost sounds like you approached this as a reporter would a lead to a story. I think it's great that you recognized that the "subject needed a light shone on it...".
I'm not an activist but because of this genre, I've been quietly (well, loudly here on GR) pushing the ideas that:
~These really great authors shouldn't be pigeonholed into the dark recesses of the erotica shelf.
AND
~That these women are a driving force behind equal rights.
If you and your book can help bring this subject into the light, and by virtue of it's acceptance, "lift the stigma", I'd be thrilled.
It's also lovely to know that this has been an important experience for you. Sounds like a win-win, all around. Thank you for sharing your motivation.
Thanks Lisa! And thank you everyone in this discussion for all your support. I wish I could have interviewed a thousand women for this book, but the great thing is that the discussion is only just beginning! I want the whole world to talk about and accept this subject!
Ery wrote: "I think too, I am more able to enjoy 'edgier' stories, simply because it feels a step removed (or fantasy based)."That makes a lot of sense Ery. It's like you're watching it from the outside, rather than being inside the story. I, for one, don't seem to put myself into one of the males physical forms while reading. I can stand back and watch it play out. That doesn't mean I don't get really emotionally involved but it just gives a different perspective. Interesting that you put that into words. Thanks.
Ami, I think I've watched just about everything you mentioned but not before discovering m/m romance books. I mentioned earlier that I ordered NetFlix just so I could watch some of those movies and shows. I particularly loved "Brokeback Mountain" and "Shelter".
Thanks for joining in.
LisaT - We Are Qhuay! wrote: "Ami, I think I've watched just about everything you mentioned but not before discovering m/m romance books. I mentioned earlier that I ordered NetFlix just so I could watch some of those movies a..."Lisa, I used to hunt for LGBT movies long before I hoard MM romance. But nowadays, I just read MM to quench my thirst, since there aren't plenty of good LGBT romances *lol*
Ilhem wrote: "Hi!So, how did I get there?
I read m/f fanfictions for a long time and stumbled across m/m fics. I didn't read many but I liked some of them and one thing leading to another, I found a blog with g..."
Yep. I had never even heard of fanfiction until I stumbled across "Wide Awake", a well known Twilight Edward/Bella fic. Then.....well, Edward and Jasper turned out to be a LOT more interesting couple. One thing led to another.....and now m/m is almost everything I read. Oh - and who told me about slash fanfiction? My MOM - who actually sent me a link to some Captain Jack/merman stories. I about died lol.
Great story Debbie. I couldn't discuss this with my mom for anything. Very cool!I'll be back tomorrow with a poll or two and hopefully to enjoy some of this great conversations.
;)
Debbie wrote: "Oh - and who told me about slash fanfiction? My MOM - who actually sent me a link to some Captain Jack/merman stories. I about died lol."Oh...now THAT is classic! I love it!
You'd be amazed how many mothers and daughters share m/m books and recommendations!! It's SOOOO cool!
Hi Erin,It'll be released as an ebook next Friday (the 7th), then in print two weeks after that. Hope that helps. :)
I started reading m/m about two years ago when a m/m book was a monthly read for one of my groups. I didn't know if I could do it, but I bought the book anyway and gave it a shot. I haven't stopped reading m/m since. For me, the sex is hotter, and men don't have to be gentle all the time, plus no whiney, nagging, weak, or otherwise obnoxious females.
Sounds great, Andrea - would love to know what that first book was! :))
what is slash fiction?
Andrea wrote: "Hi Anne... the book was Life After Joe by Harper Fox."Oh that is a very good one!
I guess the first MM romance book I read was Brokeback Mountain by Annie Proulx. That book (or novella) makes me cry every time!I also recommend it to friends that want to get started but are afraid about explicit sex scenes. They can work themselves to that level later ;-)
Andrea wrote: "Hi Anne... the book was Life After Joe by Harper Fox."
Ooh, yes, Harper Fox is great! :))
Ooh, yes, Harper Fox is great! :))
So agree re Brokeback Mountain - the book and the film are amazing! :))
HI Alex - slash fiction is a form of fan fiction that focuses mostly on m/m relationships, and it's often quite explicit. Hope that helps.
Hey Lisa! WOW, what a fantastic review!! You have totally nailed it, your review perfectly sums up the reasons why we all wanted to make this project happen and why we're so passionate about m/m! WOW again! I'm actually at a loss for words except to say... Thank you!
Geoffrey wrote: "Hey Lisa! WOW, what a fantastic review!! You have totally nailed it, your review perfectly sums up the reasons why we all wanted to make this project happen and why we're so passionate about m/m! ..."
Yeah, Geoffrey, I call Lisa my "M/M guardian angel"! She's a big advocate and nudged me into the genre. I'm now hooked. So looking forward to our buddy read of your book!
That's a great review, Lisa - and totally sums up my responses to taking part in the project too! :))
Anne
xxx
Anne
xxx
message 92:
by
Lisa Arbitrary - AttentionIsArbitrary M/M Blog
(last edited Aug 30, 2012 10:16PM)
(new)
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rated it 4 stars
Thanks you guys. I'm blushing deeply from Geoffrey's comment.
It's a long review and I, obviously, couldn't cover everything. I didn't even touch on Suzanne Brockmann's intro or some of the international responses. There's a lot in the book that just raises more questions too.
I'm really honored to have gotten a sneak peek and can't wait to be able to discuss it with everyone.
I can't wait for this!! My bestie is a psychologist and she's been asking me about my m/m fetish and how it came about/what it is that i love about it and I can't answer her hey!As I haven't been able to put my finger on it I've become her case study (LOL) so i'm thinking i'm going to get her to read this too!!
I so understand Susan's post...Lisa, you have been the one who opened my mind to thinking outside "the box"....reading horizon has grown so much and i am learning of the many other possibilities out there..... and I thank you for encouraging me to read, know before I talk!!!!!!!!!!! \xxxxx
Erin wrote: "I want to read the review... as long as there are no spoilers. Are there spoilers? So excited to read it. How did you get it already?"Hey Erin, I don't think there are any spoilers. I just looked at my review with a critical eye for just that. There are a couple quotes, but they just give you a feel for the book. The rest is just insight into how the book is laid out and what type of content there is. Plus, my take on it all. I think you'd be fine to read it. ;)
Nathalie wrote: "I can't wait for this!! My bestie is a psychologist and she's been asking me about my m/m fetish and how it came about/what it is that i love about it and I can't answer her hey!As I haven't been..."
Nath, OH Man, it would be great to get your friend's input here. It's also great that I'm not a psychologist's case study. Whew!
Thanks for the invite Lisa! My story is almost exactly the same as yours. BDB led to my first m/m romance, then to the Cut and Run series, then to copious amounts of gay porn. It's taken on a life of its own at this point! I have a tumblr page called Girls Who Like Boys Who Like Boys. I keep thinking I'm going to lose interest, but it just keeps getting further under my skin with each book I read. I'm so glad to know there's a group out here that feels the same!
Alex wrote: "I so understand Susan's post...Lisa, you have been the one who opened my mind to thinking outside "the box"....reading horizon has grown so much and i am learning of the many other possibilities ou..."*blush
Alex, I think you may have surpassed me, LOL! You've even have both a m/m shelf AND a bdsm shelf now. Wow. I NEVER would have believed it.
Honestly, through our discussions, which were sometimes 'difficult', you helped me look deeper into what I was thinking. You made me articulate what I was learning about all of this. I wanted to get you to understand so badly. Fortunately, even though it was a struggle at times, you remained open minded and had a real interest in understanding what all the passion was about.
For me, even after reading this book (or maybe even more because of reading it)I have more questions than ever. Now though, they're questions focused outward more than inward.
It's been quite a year for us, Alex. We've both come a long way.
Taylor wrote: "Thanks for the invite Lisa! My story is almost exactly the same as yours. BDB led to my first m/m romance, then to the Cut and Run series, then to copious amounts of gay porn. It's taken on a lif..."OH Taylor, I love everything you just said. The "it's taken on a life of it's own" is ridiculously true for me too.
Somewhere around here I listed out what friends have done to "entertain" themselves until Lover at Last comes out next year:
^There's been several new tumblr pages started(I just followed yours, holy hell, I'll NEVER get out of there!)
^New GR Groups formed.
^New fanfic, yup!
^Tons of advanced speculation about what Ward will do with Qhuinn and Blay.
^I started a m/m romance book blog - just to keep myself occupied
...and my "to be read" shelf is overflowing with recommendations that I can't wait to get to.
Talk about something getting under your skin, huh? AND we're not alone, or different, or weird (okay, I'm weird)but there is certainly a lot of us who love to connect through this genre. I LOVE IT!
**goes back to http://girlswholikeboysthatlikeboys.t... It's nnnmmmmmmm!
I love that this discussion has gotten started. I fell so in love with M/M that I started writing it, and explaining to people why I now devote that much of my time to what in some minds amounts to a kink can be mighty frustrating. I, too, started out with JR Ward, and very quickly went looking for more. God bless Amazon and its instant download feature. :)
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http://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/70...
I might add a question or two...any suggestions?