Jlawrence’s Comments (group member since Mar 08, 2010)

Jlawrence’s comments from the The Sword and Laser group.

I haven't read all of "These Are the Jokes" because some of the characters I haven't met yet in my re-read, but Severian's and Eata's jokes made me actually laugh out loud. Jonas' seemed more of a parable than a joke.

It is a bummer Dorcas doesn't have one - it'd be interesting to see what she thought was funny.

Yes, as Ed says, I like how the play is kind of a miniature echo-chamber for several aspects and themes of the book.

In the short essay 'Onomastics, the Study of Names' from Castle of Days, Wolfe says, "I have tried to allow enough time between changes of character to permit the actor to change his costume and makeup." He identifies the players as:

Severian - Meschia, second soldier, the prophet, the generalissimo, and the familiar

Dorcas - Meschiane, Contessa's maid, and the second demon

Baldanders - giant Nod, the Statue

Dr Talos - Gabriel, the Autarch, the first soldier, and the Inquisitor

Jolenta - Jahi, the Contessa, and the first demon

Meschia and Meschaiane are the names of "the Persian Adam and Eve; they are also known as Mashya and Mashyoi."

Hm, yes, Joneas sort of failed his friend there. Or maybe he assumed Severian was in full consent...

Ah, I think you're right! It was my unreliable memory...

I kind of hoped he found some way to travel back to his initial time after Severian freed him (Severain broke his chain after the last answer the Green Man gave him, remember?), but that might be too hopeful. ;)

I found it very disturbing, and I don't think you're supposed to "just accept it." Again, my theory is that there's many things Severian accepts that we are not meant to.

As Sean mentions, it's not exactly "non-human" as some of the past cultures that practiced it did it for the same reason these corpse-eaters do -- to take on the knowledge and power of the consumed person. And, as Sean also mentions, for some Christian denominations the ritual of communion is literally consuming the flesh and blood of Jesus.

So it could be seen as another way Urth culture has regressed -- however, it's notable that it seems to be illegal in Severian society's, or at least makes one a pariah, as Colin suggests. Certainly it's not a standard part of the culture, or Vodalus' followers wouldn't have to resort to illegal grave-robbing to achieve it. It's a further reason Voldalus' followers are underground, and part of why I think Hildergrin was unwilling to expose his identity to Severian when Severian called him out at the Botanical Gardens.

Severian does consider himself no longer completely loyal to Vodalus after finding out that what the ritual entailed, if you remember. He agrees to go on House Absolute but internally decides he will not deliver the message (though he does end up doing it anyway, in a daze when he meets his contact).

As for why he didn't refuse entirely - well, the wisest would have been to try to escape before the ritual, though it would have been dangerous - he was basically Vodalus' prisoner, even though he was treated kindly (as long as he was going along with Vodalus' wishes). During the ritual, he didn't know it was Thecla until it is well underway and he is heavily drugged on the alzabo, and it is the temptation of regaining some part of her consciousness that finally tips him into full consent.

Well, my ambitious reading goals for 2011 may be partially undone since A Dance with Dragons is actually supposed to come out -- because now I will be reading A Feast For Crows and it, which will likely bump some things off the list I had earlier. It's a *good* problem to have, though.

Tina wrote: "I also found it hard to read or participate in the forum for this book, because so many of the threads had spoiler alerts! But that also kind of left me out of a lot of good discussions until I finished the book. I wish there was a way to put something like *up to chapter xx* in a thread, but that might be too hard to administer."

We've been doing that for a little while now, putting "(spoilers, book, ch. xx - xx)" in a thread title to warn what the first thread post has spoilers of, and encouraging people to add warnings to their own posts if they comment about things further along from the first post (which is pretty common, since a lot of things get looped back to later in the books). But I realize this does you little good if you finished before we started doing that...

Ah, that's sounds cool, aldenoneil. I've been wanting to read some Mieville, so now I'm inspired to start there when I do.

Ah, yeah, that is a great vivid image -- the "of every color" bit does make me think its pulverized plastic from past eons - seems more likely than such a variety of colored glass.

aldenoneil wrote: "Perhaps you should consider doping up before every podcast you do. I know of hundreds of performers who've done so with great results."

Yes! *glug! glug! glug!*

(I forgot to respond until now because of being doped up.)

Ed wrote: "Colin wrote: "hat forest scene was pretty disturbing. I guess in the future, all the cool kids are doing Long Pig. Drugs are so eons ago.
I would have politely declined and then disarmed some ghouls, hopefully recover my sword and then take them to the butcher's block, before being incinerated by lasers. Jonas would have had my back, done some next-level cyborg kung fu action..."

LOL! I like your style, Colin.

Yes, this totally made me laugh too. :)

Veronica wrote:

Jenny wrote: "What I struggled to understand is why hardly anyone cares enough about these artifacts. There is another great description about sand made up of the accumulation of a lot of glass that had been cr..."

I had assumed that was a description of crushed up plastic? Something about the way the light was reflecting off it made me think that. Would't they have glass?

Yeah, maybe something like shattered or ground-up plexiglass? I'd have to re-read the particular passage...


*CLAW SPOILERS*



Colin wrote: Am i wrong thinking that the picture gallery Sev finds himself in when he is wandering around House Absolute is the same hallway from the Citadel?

With that in mind, i am placing the Absolute House as an off-bunker from the launch pads of the Citadel, and the picture gallery being the service tunnel or what have you. And also being a wing of the Archives (which i got the impression that they ran for miles and miles) that stores the artistic record of old urth.

Colin, I am starting to believe you're right - the gallery is the same in Shadow and Claw, and the old picture-cleaner was lying. Given those extensive interconnecting tunnels, maybe the first time Severian was there, in Sword, he had actually stumbled into a wing of or tunnel to the House Absolute (which is all underground, as well) ?

Yeah, that's a very interesting extra layer to Severian's whole problematic memory / narration that I hadn't even thought about until this re-read!

Justin, I actually apologized for this in the thread for the Sword & Claw kick-off podcast, because I hate spoilers too. :)

It was tricky, because we wanted to talk about the blending of science fiction and fantasy in the books as the reason for it being a good pick for the club. The idea was to give a few fun early chapter examples of this to grab people's attention. But I do understand this could be frustrating to people who wanted to figure out or notice those things on their own.

Colin, your additions to the New Sun universe are awesome - maybe those can be in the motion picture version.

Hmm, maybe he means he's just not through with the final edits/proofreading of the manuscript?

In any case, I'd been putting off reading A Feast for Crows until such an annoucement, so I'll read it after I finish New Sun and Wise Man's Fear.

Well, I'm speaking from where I am currently in my re-read, my take may change. ;)

But in any case, Vodalus *says* it's not supernatural ("the rabble believe it to be sacred") but "there was a twinge of fear in his voice."

This room, as miserable as it is, is also one of most amusing set-ups in the book: a waiting room where tea and sweets are still served to the guests, but where the guests literally wait forever. A great Urhtian example of the almost completely forgotten purpose of a place, and a custom, still lingering on in a mutated form.

The description of the statue-being outside the House Absolute at the beginning of chapter 14 is probably one of my favorite passages so far. It's much harder these days for a book to evoke that sought-after "sense of wonder" feeling in me, but that image is one of the ones here that does it.

Anyone else have favorite (or least favorite) passages so far?

I love the accidentally grand intrance Severian makes into Vodalus' stronghold, which saves him from being killed immediately.

What did you think of Vodalus and the scenes in his camp?

I think it's interesting that when Severian finally gets to speak to the man he's sworn allegiance to we find out:

-- Vodalus' revolution is not necessarily concerned with social justice, but instead aims to restore purpose and glory to society by reclaiming scientific knowledge and all the powers it could bestow. Instead of wanting to overturn the social order, he seems to want to be Autarch himself -- an Autarch who would "set Man's foot on the road to domination again."

Given this, it surprised me that he reacted with such superstitious fear towards the Claw, which seems to be a very high-tech relic indeed. But this fear has to do with...

-- Vodalus' masters - "our allies and masters who wait in the countries beneath the sea" -- these must be Erebus and Abaia (and perhaps others), the sea monsters that've been mentioned several times before. Severian is convinced that the visions of the giant aquatic women that he's had several times have been sent to him by Erebus and Abaia, trying to enlist them in their cause (Jonas earlier told him, "by their thoughts they enlist servants, and they fling them against all rules that rival their own." Vodalus says these masters would consider him traitor if he used the Claw.

-- Vodalus and his followers are the corpse-eaters that Master Ultan the librarian told Severian about early in Shadow, and through Vodalus' required ritual, Severian now shares Thecla's memories (this will have many interesting implications...)

It's also interesting that Severian accepted the mission to go to House Absolute, but internally decided he would not complete the mission (his loyalty to Vodalus is now broken...)

What do you make of Vodalus' and his masters' fear of the Claw?