Cleo’s Comments (group member since Apr 12, 2016)

Cleo’s comments from the Reading Classics, Chronologically Through the Ages group.

Haaze, you make me laugh. The military it is, but don't you think a little structure is good for us fly-by-the-seat-of-your pants, be-distracted-by-a-number-of-books people? ;-)

Kenia wrote: "Sorento62 wrote: "One thing I noticed a lot was the consultation of oracles, and that Herodotus did seem to believe in the power of Greek gods and oracles even though he was skeptical of many of th..."

Kenia, I've now read The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Aeneid, Metamorphoses, The Histories (almost) and I've dabbled a little with Plato (oh, and many of the Greek plays as well). I see a definite difference in the way Herodotus views the world and the function of the gods, than I do when I read Homer. You can also read from his own words that beliefs were different earlier, but in his time, he questions many of those beliefs. So yes, a big difference.

The "faith" of the Ancient Greeks was vastly different than the faith of the early Christians, as their understanding and expectation of gods vs. God is in many ways polar opposites. It's a conversation that's so vast, I'm not sure that it's wise to get into here.

Haaze, I'm going out of my realm a little with taking it further than Herodotus. i do remember in my very basic reading of Plato (and therefore Socrates) that one or both of them played with the idea of there being one supreme being --- not that he believe it absolutely but merely played with the idea as a possibility. I start The Republic in June-ish, so I'll be interested to see if Plato has anything else to say there, and I also want to read more of his dialogues. A fascinating subject!

Sorento62 wrote: "One thing I noticed a lot was the consultation of oracles, and that Herodotus did seem to believe in the power of Greek gods and oracles even though he was skeptical of many of the stories and legends that he heard...."

I found it a nice bridge between the absolute belief in the gods of Olympus and the burgeoning belief of a more monotheist god that appears to be mentioned by Plato/Socrates. Herodotus does not hide his skepticism at all about certain myths; he made me laugh at times! :-) He was very practical.

I can understand you wanting to wait. I have that feeling too, but also I'd like to move on, with some of the peoples and landmarks still fresh in my mind. I'll let you know how it goes.

I'm just finishing up The Histories with one book to go. I really loved this read and I found Herodotus' writing very personal, not only when he was writing about others, but to also give some insight into himself.

Is anyone moving on to read History of the Peloponnesian War? I've started that as well, but I'm finding it much dried than Herodotus. Nevertheless, it has some wonderful reviews so I can only hope that it picks up soon.

Thanks for the heads-up, Sandy. My library actually has the book so I'll get it out and look it over, but I don't think I'll have time for the read. You'll have to let me know how it goes. The History Book Club is indeed thorough and you get much out of a book by reading with them!

Hey Biblio, good to see you here! That sounds fantastic. As you know, my reading time has been severely limited but that is certainly something I'd be interested in. Let us know more in detail what your thoughts are.

I'd go slowly, Sara. With my first read of The Iliad, I went slowly and I also read the thread for it in the Classics and the Western Canon group. It helped me appreciate it so much more and it's now probably in my top 5 favourite books. Best of luck!

@ Kenia - Funny, what stood out for me more was the balance between the violence and other curious happenings, such as the interplay between Achilles and Agamemnon, the guest-host relationships, Homer's obvious admiration of the Trojans and, of course, the capriciousness of the gods. The names were overwhelming but they were important to the Greeks so I tried to make them important to me as well. I didn't always succeed but it made the read less arduous in this area. :-)

I've already read it (although my memory might be hazy about the spoiler to answer it properly) so I'm fine with it. You can also put it in the spoiler format.

Kenia wrote: "...have you ever considered starting your own? ?"

I have but I just don't have the time right now. It's a good idea though because then I won't have to read books over again. I'll have complete control, imagine that! ;-) Perhaps next year, which is looking more open.

Kenia wrote: "If only you did! I joined my philosophy group through meetup.com. Have you ever checked it out?"

Thanks for the tip. Quite a few book clubs but no classics. I'll keep checking back.

That's always interested me but has never been at the top of my list. You'll have to let us know what you think Kenia.

Oh, to live closer and be able to join your Philosophy group! I can't even find a classics book group close to me. Sad!

Kendra wrote: "But first, I really just need to finish Don Quixote! ..."

Oh heavens, me too! I'm stalled at about chapter 30. I think the fact that I have so many other reads going, and that I've read it before is preventing me from giving it focus. It might just sit around unread ...... perish the thought ..... ! ;-)

Hi Kelly and welcome to the group! I'm looking forward to reading and discussing books with you!

That's too bad, Kenia! I find that I'm dying to get back to it each time I try to devote time to my other reads. But if you're reading it non-stop, I can understand why it might all blend together. I hope to take 2 ½ months total but we'll see how it turns out. Enjoy your Herodotus break!

Sorento62 wrote: "One thing that struck me is that the geographical area called "Greece" by Herodotus seems to consist of the Aegean Sea islands, today's Greek peninsula, and also many locations on the west coast of what is today Turkey. ..."

Not only that but there were other Greek settlements in Italy and I'm sure elsewhere.

I can't remember back clearly, but I got the impression that Herodotus did differentiate between the "mainland" Hellenes and the Hellenic areas of west Asia (Turkey). I need to brush up more on my Greek history!

I've been struck by his admiration for other cultures. I was reading an article that said that Herodotus displayed a disdain for the Hellenes (Greeks) but then, in my Landmark edition, there is a note that said Herodotus inserted a particular story to demonstrate the cruelty of the Persian kings. So we have two different viewpoints as to where Herodotus' sympathy lies. Odd ..... :-Z

Kenia wrote: "Are any of you taking care to read the translator's historical notes? ..."

The notes in my Landmark edition are on the same pages, so I am reading some of them. 2 hours! Wow, that's devotion! ;-)

For Herodotus' time, he was as historically accurate as was possible. I actually don't disbelieve him just because we don't see something today that he describes. For instance, his description of a hippopotamus sounds ridiculous, but perhaps there was some sort of animal that did look like that during his life. He presents as someone who is committed to communicating the facts. Of course, his presentation is through his own lense, just as his critics have theirs. His diligence in communicating when he has seen something or when he hasn't, is admirable. I do enjoy his skepticism as it's at these places that some of his personality shines through.

I'm loving this read and will be very sad when it's over!

I started learning Latin using Henle Latin but, of course, stalled. What program are you planning to use?

Kendra wrote: "Haha thank you both. I have done a lot of reading this month (what inevitably happens when they cut my hours at work), but it feels like so little of that has actually been from TWEM and my lists. ..."

#1 Stop going to the library. ;-)

#2 Well, I can't actually think of any other rules, so I'll just say that I sympathize with your anguishingly long read of Don Quixote. I'm sort of stalled with it now too and since I'm really concentrating on Herodotus, I can't see getting back to it in the next month or so. Sigh!

**** READ!!!!! ***** ...... ;-)

Now, was that helpful?

Kirk wrote: "I've hesitated asking this question, but...

What are some of the shorter books found on The Well-Educated Mind book list?

I may knock off a few of those until the end of March."

Heart of Darkness is short but it takes mental effort to appreciate it. The Stranger and The Red Badge of Courage are short as well.

As for the other categories, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners, Narrative of the Captivity and Restoration of Mrs. Mary Rowlandson, The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, The Prince, Utopia, and many of the plays would be short. There are quite a few.