Pam’s Comments (group member since Dec 29, 2016)

Pam’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Nicole Gonzales wrote: " As white people, we have to start noticing and calling out these moments and acknowledging that racism is the norm, not the exception ."

It makes a lot of sense. Eddo-Lodge writes later that white people need to talk to other white people "Yes, you might be written off as a radical, but you have much less to lose" which really snapped right between my eyes.

White people mught be called out. And our family might ignore us or identidy you as That One. But is that that bad? Compared to red lining m gentrification, employment woes, educational oppressession. Etc. Etc.

So before the mods kick us off for straying from the topic at large, and as this has the potential for some really great conversation, I've created a new thread.

My reply to your question Sandra can be found here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

@ Sandra:

My earlier conversation started as a question about how some women's sports teams gained popularity and others didn't. WNBA vs LDL vs WNSA, etc.

How did women's tennis succeed and gain television rights? What sports were genderized like baseball turned into women's softball? How did American Football became 7x7 lingerie football when women's basketball and soccer manage not to?

If we support the LDL are we promoting female athletes or are we supporting a T&A show?

Felt bad taking up space under the Progress Thread with information on professional sports. So before the mods could kick me off I decided to start a new thread!

WOMEN IN SPORTS!
From walking marathons to Title IX to today's world of professional sports. Let's talk athleticism.

The conversation that started this thread. My SO and I were discussing the sexism in women's Legends Football League the other day... https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports/Tam...

- They were skimpy uniforms that are most definitely used to titillate. But nothing worse than what a Beach Volleyball player wears.
- We discussed their legitimacy of their athleticism and if it is undermined by their uniforms.
- Are the players body positive for wearing clothes like that?
- Are they doing a service to feminists wearing their current uniforms?
- Are the players a bunch of dumb jocks or dumb bimbos?

Sandra Added:
i also found it interesting to note what both the men and women runners wear as i was watching olympic tryouts last time. i don't get it at all.

is this to bring more interest to women's sports albeit in a provocative manner? pam, i find your questions on the money. is money what this is all about?

Jasmine wrote: "We have to encourage/coax men to be more like women."

(Ignoring your first sentence)... In what way would you coax or encourage men to be more like women?

Jasmine wrote: "They should be replaced by a bunch of dumb male hunks wearing very little to objectify! ."

That kind of brings up an interesting point.

Are you saying that the former Dart Girls or female cheerleaders or any sort of "eye candy" are dumb?

My SO and I were discussing the sexism in women's Legends Football League the other day

https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports/Tam...

- They were skimpy uniforms that are most definitely used to titillate. But nothing worse than what a Beach Volleyball player wears.
- We discussed their legitimacy of their athleticism and if it is undermined by their uniforms.
- Are the players body positive for wearing clothes like that?
- Are they doing a service to feminists wearing their current uniforms?
- Are the players a bunch of dumb jocks or dumb bimbos?

Sorry Leslie.

For our discussion purposes, that is an excellent example of why this is such a complicated topic. Individually who wronged who or Who is in the Right and who is in the wrong are perfectly legitimate questions.

In discussions like this I always try to remember about the suffering anger causes, like a virus. Her anger (justified or not) caused her to lash out leaving you with this prominent memory all these years later. And that was one instance! Who knows what caused that anger in her or what anger she inspired in others afterwards.

Agree: US soccer players should be paid more given their victories
Disagree: Women should be paid more because they are women.

Let's even the playing field by paying for accomplishments not entitlements. You do the work, you bring in the fans and the ads and get wins you should have a better pay.

Male hunks on display: how about we have a male and female cheerleading squad?

More so because white is currently the default. And instead of saying individuals groups or colors (red, yellow, black, brown) poc is used as the short hand..

All members in good standing are able to create new threads to topics they want to bring attention to.

There are a lot of items to discuss. Feminism, especially on this global platform, covers a wide area. If anyone feels empassioned to discuss as well as to offer solutions for further actions they can do. It behooves dialogue to do so in a separate thread so as to attract more readers and gain larger coverage.

Thanks for the explanation.

Is Iran still something of a dictatorship? If so, does that negate or severely hamper the media's ability to report?

Help boost the signal by reading and sharing these articles and others

Links on Iran Protests
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/06/middlee...

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/06/middlee...

https://www.theatlantic.com/internati...


What's the Fourth Estate?

I also really love New Girl

Partly.

I love being able to wrestle with the text and pull from it tidbits to chew on later. Comments help me see things that others are picking up on that I may have missed or help me approach things from a different perspective.

I also am working on being more action oriented. Knowledge is great, but I personally know I need to work on taking that info and apply it to my person in some form or fashion. Or rather, I want to apply knowledge for more things than Trivia Nights.

I follow Lewis. I was taught not to acknowledge someone's differences. This very much played across the board: Race, Gender, or Disabilities.

I believe the theory behind these lessons was good intention ed. That my parents were trying to quell some awkward childhood curiosity and tactlessness so as to not make anyone on the receiving end uncomfortable.

My sister is disabled. And it would become grating to my family to have to answer "What's wrong with her?" from people. Once or twice was fine. But it got to the point where after explaining so many times the short hand would become "Nothing is wrong with her." Which isn't the wrong answer. My parents were in solidarity with her, trying to honor her dignity and to make sure no one treated her like she was less than a person.

But there are stark cognitive and mobility differences between her and the rest of my family. To NOT see those differences just means that as a family we could fail to incorporate her feelings or needs into consideration in things like family meals or activities.

And I think that was the lesson that was never officially given. As in, no one sat me down and said "we don't notice differences, but we do acknowledge and incorporate them as respectfully as we can."

Rereading this I noticed I didn't thank Lewis and Emma for their comments too. I can't wait to read what you think once you're done reading, too. :)

@Ana."What I'm trying to do is, well, I try to think twice about everything now. I also try not to get salty if I read stuff on the Internet calling "white people" out or mentioning how we "ruin stuff" or "don't get a thing".

So very true. The need for listening and not taking things personally is huge.

And - a wee bit off topic- this has personally aided me in understanding what our male feminists accomplish or the LGBQT or intersex for that matter.

For some of us we really have no ground or iota of experience in not being our gender or our race. We have never been anyone but ourselves.It's hard, in the sense of having to develop these underused skills, to stop reacting and applying MY experience to something I can never fully understand. To fully stop and to remove me/ego/I/myself out of the exchange.

Thank you for your honesty.

@Maggie it very much is a start.

Can you share any guidance to the rest of us on what you have found helpful?

Michaela wrote: "And i would really like to see studies showing how many women are assaulted in public bathrooms, gendered or unisex, to see if this is even an issue."

Location is also important when we discuss these norms. Iana added in a previous thread here regarding assaults happening in hospitals in Kenya. Are all countries and cultures ready for this? Maggie, your point regarding bars is also valid. Alcohol and our current rape culture mean that bathrooms are still seen a places of refuge for some. And while I am with those creating unisex stalls I don't know if it's a universal solution in all settings.

Commenting so this goes to the front page given our current book by Eddo-Lodge.

Has anything changed in the year+ it's been since this celebration?

That didn't answer the question.

So far, you haven't answered any questions.

While many of us have provided sources; news articles, scientific journals, as well as specific academic verbiage to discuss these intercourse, you have not. Despite many requests asking to see them.

Instead of conversing with OSS members about the topic at hand you have been playing the "What about" game. Sidestepping issues and bringing up completely unrelated topics.

And once we don't play your game or give into your inane topic switch, you start pointing fingers and calling people names.

I name thee Troll, Jakari. Here to get a rise and nothing else.