Jordan’s Comments (group member since Jan 18, 2015)

Jordan’s comments from the Return of the Rogue Readers group.

I'm the lord of Book 16 and I call a vote!

Garret: As you know, post-apocalyptic fiction is probably my favorite genre and I have read volumes. I feel like that has made it a little harder for me to enjoy this book in the same way that you had a hard time trying to play Fallout 1 after being used to much newer games with better graphics, smoother gameplay, etc. With that in mind I can definitely see why this won awards and is so well respected. I doubt I will read the next book either, but I didn't feel like this was a negative experience. Then again, I rarely do.

Amy: Not a fan of sci-fi, huh? As for the hobo, he was in the last part. He introduced himself as Lazarus, but didn't have much else to say. The two-headed lady, Mrs. Grales, and Rachel (Head #2) felt to me like some reference to innocence and exemption from the complex structure of sin, but I was driving the tractor during this part of the story and may have missed some details. Mike, our resident Catholic, might be able to shed more light on this.

I will say, I laughed more than I expected to in the first part. It was a funny story at times and had the rest of the book been set in that quaint wasteland I (and been shortened by 40%) I would have rated it higher.

I have completed this book and I will now speak about it!

Of the three 'stories' within this tale I enjoyed "Fiat Homo," the first one, the most. I found the characters to be the most developed and while not directly relatable, I understood them. Not only that, but the setting and general vibe of this part was the most in-line with my delicate sensibilities.

'Fiat Homo' felt like the phoenix rising from the ashes. It was two things at once; the bleak aftermath of a nuclear war that wiped out the world as we know it, and the birth of a new society that was innocent and able to simply exist as whatever it was. In this part of the book the technological prowess of mankind has been sent back to the levels of the middle ages. Brother Francis was comically simple and his concerns in this wasteland consisted of fending off the wolves, meeting a hobo, and trying not to sin. It was not a world I long to live in, but I can definitely appreciate the simplicity of it. Even as the story grew more complex, it stayed simple and almost pure.

'Fiat Lux' took us further into the future and brought with it a much more complex society. We saw the first steps of a society rejoining the world of technology and the early stages of the political cancer that had once and would again devastate the planet.

'Fiat Voluntas Tua' paints a picture that I imagine was eerily similar to the unwritten prequel to 'Fiat Homo,' or the origin story for this tale. Politics have grown beyond the control of man and earthly society is perched in the edge of the abyss.

I enjoyed each of these tales less than the previous one. I couldn't wait for the last one to end. It made me anxious and worried and I think that's the point. The book began with a society that had already ended, or rather, a society emerging from the rubble of its fallen predecessor. It ended with that same society meeting the same fate as the predecessor.

The discussion begins tomorrow. Just throwing this out there so its ready for you eager readers at the stroke of midnight.

330 pages. Hows about June 6th for the discussion?

Mike, I intend to in the future. I recently read Good Omens, a joint venture between Pratchett and Neil Gaiman (one of my favorite authors) and was very pleased. Have you read that?

Mike, you are up. What's the next book?

Sorry guys, I was called away on business and my robot butler refused to post on my behalf.

I agree with everyone else. The book was a bit heavy handed at times and the motivation of certain characters was hard to relate to, but it wasn't a bad experience.

Mike, you said you read both books?

The topic is open! What did everyone think?

I didnt realize there were so many stories to The Jungle Book.

We will resume this discussion on April 17th

Sounds like we are all on board. I'll set the date for Sunday April 17th

The book is 277 pages long. I was considering 3 weeks for the read time, but I don't think that's necessary. What do you guys think?

Nice choice, Amy. I will take this opportunity to mention that Librivox.com is a free and 100% legal source of classic and public domain literature audiobooks that are read by viewers like you.

There are three versions of The Jungle Book on there you can choose from. Two of them are from single narrators and one is a collaboration. You can sample the audio before you download the whole file.

Good points, Amy! Do you think Richard would lead expeditions from London Below to London Above?

Amy, would you like to pick the book for #15? Since you are a new member and you participated in this book I would like to offer you the chance to choose. If you can't think of one particular book you can pick a few and run a poll. Others have done that in the past.

Garret, we agree about Hunter. Richard seemed to be gaining a little independence at the end. I like to think the scene where he leaves his friends in the pub to wander the streets is symbolic of leaving old Richard behind. He makes numerous references to his old life and to 'knowing' how this all turns out. They would all do this, then they would all do that. He'd bang the new girl, they'd get married, get an apartment or whatever it was...etc. I think Neil Gaiman was trying to show us that Richard had grown, he had leveled up a few times, and he wasn't the same boring follower we met in the beginning.

I think it would have been cheap and unrealistic to have him suddenly assume the mantle of The Warrior, it wouldn't be natural for Richard Mayhew, but he definitely did not spend his life like a lost puppy.

I gave a relisten to the part of the book starting with Hunter fighting the beast for the first time. I still don't think she did anything noteworthy. She was already dying, already done, and she drew the beast to her to give Richard the chance to spear it. She knew she was dead and saw one last chance for a shred of honor. Is that not in itself a selfish act?

I am with Amy on this one. I don't think Hunter ever redeemed herself. I think her actions were purely self-motivated and the only reason she kept Door safe was because it was part of the deal to get The Spear of Destiny (or whatever it was.) The only reason she kept Richard alive is because Door wanted it and it would have been obvious that she intentionally failed to act if he were to have fallen to his death. I am going to have to reread her final scenes. I don't recall her doing any regretting beyond wishing it was she who slayed the beast. In fact, I felt that her lack of morality and general shittiness contributed to the feminist aspect of her character. Not in a militant feminist sense (where women are sacred and men are shite) but in the general equality sense. Her character was flawed and (imho) definitely not a good person, but she was far from the useless, fainting damsel character we see so often. I didn't like her and I wouldn't want to be her friend, but that's because she was such an asshole. The fact that she was an attractive female was mentioned on more than one occasion, but it was irrelevant to *who* she was. Good or bad person, she was a great character

Danielle: I'm glad you enjoyed this. I too immediately read another Gaiman book directly after finishing Neverwhere. I read Good Omens and, of course, enjoyed it very much.

The subtlety of the magical side of this tale was part of what created the atmosphere I mentioned above. The idea that our little Ohio version of London Below might lurk just below the surface of Ruff Kreek or behind one of the vacant store fronts of the mall.

I agree with both of you about the depth of the characters. To both of you, if you could convince Neil Gaiman to write another book that was a sort of origin story which character would you most want to read about?

Amy: I don't believe Messrs. Croup and Vandemar appeared in any other books, but I have not read everything Gaiman has written. If I come across them again I will be delighted and I will let you know.

You ought to give audiobooks a chance. Especially so since you liked the sample you heard. Audible is an overpriced bastard (like an Apple product) but there are other *ahem* sources. To answer your question I listen to audiobooks almost exclusively because I can enjoy them while exercising, driving, etc. That doesn't mean that you have to choose an audiobook for your turn though. If I can participate, I will. If not, don't sweat it. I'm glad you participated and welcome to the club!

This was the second time I read Neverwhere. The first time I read it was around 2000 and I enjoyed it just as much this time around.

My first read through I was fascinated with the idea of a mystical mirror city that existed below and beyond the London above. I liked the idea that there was something magical just beyond the day-to-day grind, something you might see out of the corner of your eye and dismiss as a trick of light. Now that I think about it, that element has been present in many of my favorite stories. Otherland by Tad Williams, The Matrix, Peter Pan, The Dark Tower books, Harry Potter, etc. It gives me hope that maybe someday I will get my invitation to the worlds other than these.

The story itself was great to visit again. It had been enough time that I forgot most of the details, but as I got back into it I felt like I was visiting old friends. Some of them were insane friends, or unpleasant friends, but it was good to see them again.

This book also reminded me why Neil Gaiman has such a solid following of female readers. His books always have a balance between male and female characters. There are strong characters of either gender, something that's pretty rare in fiction. They are balanced between male and female, also between good and evil. The characters don't fall cleanly into any of the cookie-cutter tropes that litter fiction.

Of all the characters I was most interested in hearing more about The Marquis de Carabas. I would read a book about his other adventures and how he got the pronounced reputation that he had. This line from the Wikipedia article struck me. The Marquis "was inspired by Puss in Boots. Gaiman stated this as the starting point for the character, and imagining "Who would own a cat like this?"