Jordan’s Comments (group member since Jan 18, 2015)

Jordan’s comments from the Return of the Rogue Readers group.

Welcome back, Amy! I hope your finals went well. Same to you, Ryan. Which classes are you guys taking?

Amy, from what I remember the movie was pretty good. Then again, I haven't seen it since the 90's.

Ryan, I understand what you mean about the fantasy tale vibe. I'm reminded of Cort and Vannay from the Dark Tower series. Neither set of characters are loving, warm mentors like Dumbledore or Gandalf, but they do provide a measure of comfort and they prepare the protagonists for what lies ahead.

Since we are on the topic of this being a true story, what are your thoughts? Does knowing that the story might be embellished or totally fabricated make a difference in your enjoyment?

I finished it a day late this time. Glad to hear you enjoyed it, Gretchen.

I agree with your review of the three parts of the book. The first was definitely my favorite. Having seen the movie, I knew which direction this book was going, but I couldn't help feeling like it might have shaped into a Goodfellas-style tale of loveable (or at least likeable) street kids who grew into respected gangsters. I knew a dark turn was coming, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the vibe of the early part of the tale.

The middle was indeed a difficult read. I can't begin to imagine what that must have been like for the boys of Wilkensons. Being trapped in a place with no way out, no allies, and no hope. I forget which of the boys said it, but at one point they told Nokes to kill them, and it sounded like he felt that was the best option. I imagine the emptiness the boy felt when he said that. Not even the idea of revenge was a consolation.

The third part, with the retribution and trial, was kinda meh. I would have enjoyed reading a dozen pages of how they tortured Nokes and Friends, or maybe going the "reality route," an ending where Tommy and John went to prison and were executed for the murder of Nokes. The ending we got felt kinda like fanfiction...or something Patrick Rothfuss wrote. The term I often hear associated with Rothfuss is "wish-fulfillment fiction," and that is what the third part of Sleepers was like. As you said, it all fell together with no real struggling or hard work. It felt very insincere to me.

Interesting trivia on the massive increase in rent costs. Wow, that's some perspective there. I looked up Bruno Sammartino after reading your post. The man had an interesting life. Were you a fan or did you come across this info elsewhere?

Would you read any of Carcaterra's other work, Gretchen?

Has anyone else finished the book yet? Dust off those keyboards, friends!

Our newest member, Gretchen, has chosen our next book. She picked Sleepers by Lorenzo Carcaterra! Let's shoot for the end of the month for our discussion. Does that sound good to everyone?

Thread opens Sunday April 29th!

Danielle, I'm a firm believer that the books are always better than their movie/show adaptations and I always try to read the book before seeing something. I may have already mentioned this, but Harry Potter was the great exception to this. I watched the movies before I read the books. I think I got into the movies right before the first Deathly Hallows came out, and I decided to give the films a chance before reading the books. I think I lucked out with this choice, because the movies are a pretty faithful adaptation of the books. It's not realistic to expect your book experience to be translated perfectly onto the silver screen, but I think they did a really good job.

I can't remember who it was, but one of our friends recently said something like "I always watch the movie before reading the book because I have to think less. The movie shows me what the characters look like, sound like, etc." While that's almost exactly the opposite of why I read first (because I want to build my own idea of what people look like and what the settings feel like) it is an interesting perspective.

Good idea, Danielle. I will start a thread for movie discussion.

Without giving anything away, what did you think about the differences in characters? Did the book or movie seem more interesting to you?

Ryan, I experienced similar moments where I thought I was too smart for this little old tale, but the ending caught me by surprise. I was mostly concerned with how the killer got into and out of the room. At one point I expected to be introduced to a traveling acrobat or someone else capable of extreme feats on the outside of a moving train.

What made you think it was Dr. Constantine?

Do you think you'll read another in the series?

As I understand it, the newest movie had a different ending than the book. I haven't seen the movie yet, so please keep this spoiler free :)

I enjoyed the book as well, but it was maybe 25% too long for me. I started losing interest towards the end, but I blame that mostly on the audiobook I was listening to. The narrator used a variety of voices for the characters, most of which were unpleasant, and his speaking volume went up and down seemingly at random.

One character I didn't enjoy was M. Bouc. He was the comic relief, I get that, but he annoyed me. His interactions with Poirot were my least favorite parts to read.

I think I will try another book in this series sometime, there are 33 of them!

A day late and a dollar short again. Sorry folks!

I am about 3/4 of the way through this book. I will be finished by tomorrow. So far I am enjoying it. As an adult, I've only read one "detective" book, Mr. Mercedes by Stephen King. As you might imagine, this is very different.

What do you guys think?

Since Amy is MIA, one of our newest members, Vinnita, has chosen the next book. Murder on the Orient Express! It's 336 pages long, so let's give it two weeks. How does February 3rd sound?

Amy, are you still with us?

Amy, I believe it's your turn. Think about what you'd like to read next and we will announce it Monday or Tuesday.

Both of you make great points, but my mind was moving more in the direction of: If Dyer was a scientist, why did he cast such harsh judgement on everything? Why wouldn't he be excited to make these discoveries? Surely discovering the remains of an ancient civilization would cement his place in history as one of the great explorers.

Garret, there is one thing I don't quite understand about Lovecraft's work: Why is everything so horrible and insane? When I think about an ancient civilization colonizing the earth millions or billions of years ago I am filled with a sense of wonder and excitement. I want to meet them and learn about them. I want to see their technology, try their ancient alien video games and inter-dimensional beer.

As usual, I listened to an audiobook. This time around I found a recording made by a very dedicated fan, William Hart. I enjoyed this book, overall, even though the gruesome and terrifying parts pale in comparison to some of the other horror I've read. However, I have come to see that's part of the charm. When Ryan chose this book was pleased because Lovecraft has been on my list, but I didn't really know what to expect. Over the years some of my friends have spoken highly about the Lovecraft mythos, and I see the elements in popular culture often.

I think it's important to have perspective on older books. At the Mountains of Madness was written in 1931. As Amy pointed out, the story would have been a lot less dramatic if they had access to modern technology. They could have simply spotted the city with a satellite, used modern planes to safely fly right there and land, and had a virtually unlimited supply of light via a combination of solar/wind/gas generators. Good thing for us it took place nearly a century ago.

Beyond the technological limitations of the time, readers who would have found this story when it was new lived in a world where this kind of fiction was just getting started. According to some guy who cited Locus Magazine, between 100-500 horror/sci-fi/etc books are published each year. In 1931, when Lovecraft was writing this book, only 80 total fiction books were published. That includes every genre of fiction, not just horror.

To the people of the 1930's this was some serious shit. I recently learned the works of Lovecraft, and this story specifically, started the whole Ancient Aliens fandom that has taken over the History Channel.

Amy, don't fret. I had to look up a couple words too. I'm about 80% of the way through the book and ill have it finished by this evening, but I read your post and wanted to reply. I thought something similar while reading this book, about how satellite pictures would show us something like that if the story took place in the modern day. I was curious if any crazy places had been discovered, so I did a little research. Turns out, one had! People on Google Earth discovered a rainforest that had never been discovered before. Inside were 10 new species of animals not found anywhere else on the planet. You can read about it here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/na...

Sadly, yes, it is realistic. The circumstances are different, but read up on the Islamic Revolution in Iran. In the 70's urban Iran looked like San Francisco, London, or any other modern city. The government was pumping money into infrastructure, art was encouraged, and Iranian women had same rights as women in Western societies (of that time).

Before the revolution, women in Iran could have enjoyed a childhood very similar to their American counterparts. They had Beatlemania, bellbottom jeans, and could go to college to study law or medicine or whatever they wanted. After the revolution (which only lasted a year or so) the country reverted to stone-age policies. This excerpt from Wikipedia sums it up: "Within months of the founding of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the 1967 Family Protection Law was repealed; female government workers were forced to observe Islamic dress code; women were barred from becoming judges; beaches and sports were sex-segregated; the legal age of marriage for girls was reduced to 9"

In addition to that, armed gangs roamed the streets beating people into submission if they were dressed "inappropriately" or if they asked too many questions. This was done not only with the knowledge of religious leaders but with their enthusiastic encouragement.

Whoops! I forgot the discussion was supposed to begin yesterday. Better late than never. Let the discussion of this insane tale of nameless horrors begin!

Let's open the discussion Saturday the 11th. I hope the book is creepy, Amy.

Nevermind, I see the one listed on your profile. Ok, this book is 186 pages, so it's on the shorter side. Those of you who intend to read this, give me an idea of how long you think you will need to finish it please.