Jordan’s Comments (group member since Jan 18, 2015)

Jordan’s comments from the Return of the Rogue Readers group.

How's it looking for a discussion this week? Do we need a little more time?

Hello friends, where are we at with this book? There was some discussion of needing more time. What does everyone thing? Another week? Two?

No problemo, guys. How about we check in around Feb. 16 and see where we are? I want everyone to be able to participate and I don't mind delaying the discussion.

Our newest member, R.A., has chosen this book. We'll be reading Another Country by James Baldwin. According to Amazon, its about 450 pages, so lets set a longer date. How does February 16th sound?

Same to you, Amy, and to everyone else. Sorry, this is a busy time of year and I barely had time to sit down in the last two weeks.

I'll dig into my spreadsheet to see who is next up!

Ryan, that's interesting info on the author. I'm not surprised that you didn't find the character racist though. Thanks for sharing. I don't think I agree that being gay necessitates he was a liberal, however.

I tried to find interviews with the author to see what he had to say about this book, and the Odessa character, but I wasn't able to turn anything up.

Gretchen, the Luker/India relationship would have felt weird to me even if he were 50 and she 30. I mean, she practically called him out for whoring around and she was well informed on his drug habit. I realize this was just after the 70's, but come on, what dad lets his kid know he pops uppers and downers on a regular enough basis? Maybe this is normal in other cultures, but it really made me wonder what the author's intentions were.

When Odessa told India to eat her eyes I too felt it was a little abrupt. As the kids would say "That escalated quickly..."

Amy, I don't know much about the author, but I wonder if he wasn't just a product of his time, susceptible to the casual racism that older generations exhibit these days. If he was an older man in the south in 1981 he most certainly experienced overt racism, and even if he considered himself artistic or part of the beatnick crowd he may have been more comfortable with themes or ideas than his contemporary counterparts would be today.

As far as the elementals being Native American spirits, I didn't catch anything that specifically suggested that, but I don't see why not. Maybe they were, or maybe they were even older than that. Maybe they were minions of the nameless horrors that lie below the oceans.

Gretchen, I'm interested in your thoughts on the Luker/India relationship. It struck me as weird, to be honest.

I agree with both of you on Beldame. I'm going on Airbnb to find my own haunted southern gothic getaway.

Ryan, I'm glad to hear this club has broadened your horizons. I find your thoughts in the death of Dauphin interesting. His character grabbed my attention from the funeral, but like you, I wanted more of him in the story. Reading his parts felt vaguely like Mary Shelly's Frankenstein to me. In the correspondence portions of that book between Robert Walton and his sister. (I had to look up their names) The dialog, being written in a time so far removed from modern horror, felt weird and unnatural to me. Dauphin's character felt the same. The weirdness persisted until his rather sudden and anticlimactic end. I thought he was going to possess some supernatural skill inherited from the Savage bloodline that would allow him to keep the Elementals at bay. I hoped he would kick some ass.

I think I agree with Ryan about Luker's dad, Lawton. His character was better when he was only spoken of, not present.

Gretchen, I like your research. I should do that myself. It adds some depth to the story and makes for good discussion!

So, there are a few things about this book that I didn't care for. Some parts of it didn't age well. The character Odessa, for example. She is a racist stereotype. She was one step from saying "Oh no, massa, I swears I never seent no ghosts!" Every other time her character was referenced it began with "The black woman said.." or some other reminder that she was not white. She was not intelligent, barely made sense half the time, and had no redeeming traits beyond being a good servant and having magical eyeball juice.

Here it is, folks! Let's discuss!

The discussion begins on Dec 1!

No worries, Andrew, ask away!

The way it usually goes is the discussion will begin or the date mentioned and after a week or so, as the discussion dries up, we will announce the next book. I'll open a thread and invite you to choose.

Feel free to stop in to any previous discussion if you've read those books as well. It's never too late to add your two cents!

As for this book discussion, how does December 1 sound?

Hello Andrew, welcome to the club! The way we do things 'round here is to take turns choosing books to read and discuss. Book 27 is the current book we are reading. If you check out our "Discussion Topics" you will see three categories.

Here we talk about what to read - I make a post with a book number and which member gets to choose. The order of choosing a book follows a cycle around the members who have participated in recent discussions. Two factors are accounted for here. first, if it's a member's turn and they did not participate in the previous discussion, then they are skipped. Second, if a new members joins and wishes to participate, they are moved to the front of the line. Since we already chose this book, and you just joined, you have the opportunity to choose the next book. That will be Book 28.

Here we talk about read books - Once the discussion date has arrived I will start a thread in this forum for the group to discuss the previously chosen book.

Here we talk about other things - In this forum, you can talk about whatever you'd like.

Danielle is up next. What is your offering?

I'm inclined to agree with you, Garret. The Shining is the most "horror" of your list, with Pet Semetary being just as good, but less epic.

As for other works: Carrie is good, old-fashioned B-Movie Horror, IT is a darker, more epic, and more thoughtful horror, and the short story "Trucks" is just bonkers. Needful Things is a good example of King's own little sub-genre of "Normal folks being manipulated by a supernatural baddie."

The Outsider, one of his newest books, fits that genre too. A small town family man is arrested for the horrific assault and murder of a little boy. Half the town is convinced he did it, with many of them seeing him with the boy, near the scene of the crime, or shortly after covered in blood. The other half couldn't believe the little league baseball coach capable of such a thing, and some of them even have proof he wasn't anywhere near the crime scene, or even in the same city.

It's a story driven by characters and the decisions they make more so that the elements of horror or supernatural creatures. It's a more mature story than Sleeping Beauties (possibly because King was the sole author?) in multiple ways. The content is definitely more mature. It's a brutal story with a few scenes of graphic murder and sexual assault (heads up for those of you who are sensitive to that) but the maturity goes beyond that. King isn't afraid to let his story take unconventional turns that less established authors might worry would alienate potential readers, and he doesn't bat an eye at killing off characters with a zest that George R. R. Martin would approve of.

Anyhow, if you liked the flow and general thematic structure of Sleeping Beauties but wanted something a little heavier, a little darker, and a little less predictable I suggest The Outsider.

Many readers associate King with novels like The Shining, Salem's Lot, Cujo, etc. The Shining is inarguably horror. The characters come up against ghostly attackers, visions of the dead and dying, and scenes that feel almost like biblical interpretations of hell. The book is full of supernatural terror of every shape and size, but it also relies heavily on psychological terror. Since I know Danielle hasn't read/watched The Shining I'll keep this spoiler-free, but in addition to ghosts and whatnot the characters face real-life horror in the form of domestic violence, addiction, and poverty.

Then you have Cujo which is about a very large and very sick dog. If I recall correctly, Cujo is a St. Bernard with rabies who corners a mom and her small child in their vehicle with no help in sight. While The Shining features spectral dance parties and Jedi-like powers, the horror of Cujo comes from the slow burn of a genuine kind of terror that any of us could conceivably face.

According to J.A. Cuddon via Wikipedia horror is "a piece of fiction in prose of variable length... which shocks or even frightens the reader, or perhaps induces a feeling of repulsion or loathing."

Sleeping Beauties has shocking moments, scary moments, repulsive and loathful moments. Is loathful a word? Anyhow, it's not vampires and ghosts, but it is definitely supernatural. It's not scenes of babies being roasted over an open fire or filled with graphic descriptions of undead hordes, but it certainly had some repulsive moments. (Like a woman sheriff! Amirite boys?)

(that was a joke)

But seriously, when you first asked this I thought "I guess it wasn't really horror" but after thinking it over I have reconsidered and I can see why it was given this designation. I think having Stephen King's name on the cover might have given influenced our expectations though. Compared to some of his other work it's very tame horror.

Glad to hear you are enjoying it. I'd avoid this thread until you have finished the book on account of spoilers. I look forward to hearing what everyone thought of it!

I forgot to open the thread. Many apologies. Has everyone finished?

Amy seems to be taking a break from the internet, so I'll pick for her this month. We are going to read Sleeping Beauties by Stephen King. From what I can tell, it's not horror, although there are supernatural elements. Let's set the discussion for August 5th, about a month from now. How's that sound?

Amy, I apologize for the delay. I didn't see the notification and I didn't realize you had responded. If my calculations are correct, you get to pick out next book!