Jordan’s Comments (group member since Jan 18, 2015)

Jordan’s comments from the Return of the Rogue Readers group.

Amy, I don't think that's racist, but it might be. I'm not really sure. Now you have me worried.

Emma, you can do it. We believe in you!

Danielle, I thought it was poetic too. At times I felt like I was reading Shakespeare. I am definitely not an authority on poetry, but there was a certain cadence that seemed familiar.

Amy, I have never actually seen Jersey Shore, but from what the parodies have told me it's about a group of 20-somethings with fake tans, too much free time, and various mental illnesses. It's reality TV at it's greasiest.

I agree with your interpretation of Basil. He was the one reasonable person in this novel. He just wanted to paint and capture what he thought was beautiful, but he was surrounded with hedonists. I don't know of Upton Sinclair and Oscar Wilde ever met, but your question interested me so I looked it up.

Oscar Wilde died in 1900 at 46 years old, Upton Sinclair was born in 1878 and was in NYC at the time of Wilde's death. It's very unlikely that they crossed paths, but what is more interesting to me is the madness surrounding Oscar Wilde's final years. If you get a chance skim the Wikipedia article.

Danielle, I have been slacking and am only halfway done with the book, so I can only comment on what I have read so far. With that being said, I have had an amusing thought throughout this story so far. The Picture of Dorian Gray is almost like a Victorian Era Jersey Shore. (Disclaimer: I have never actually watched Jersey Shore. I just know the reputation those people have as selfish, superficial children who are obsessed with their own looks). The difference is that Dorian and friends are fictional and the plot is how vanity and cruelty are ruinous.

Another fun detail I'd like to mention is that this story takes place a decade or so before our last book, The Jungle. At one point one of the characters, I believe Lord Henry, is discussing the idea of making his fortune in the pork packing business in Chicago.

What did everyone think of this book?

The votes are in and The Picture of Dorian Gray is our next book! Goodreads says it's 254 pages. Does Sunday October 16 sound good for our discussion?

The poll is live! I never see them on the app and have to go through the Web browser, so heads up for those of you that have the same problem.

I have read neither. Want me to open a poll?

Somehow I skipped the "what to read" thread for Mike's last selection. I am going to skip a number for the sake of keeping the book count accurate. This time around I am going to welcome one of our new members to choose the book. Emma, what would you like us to read?

I haven't read Atlas Shrugged, but it's on my list.

I agree with you about the ending. I don't think it fit and detracted from the overall impact. It felt like a kids movie where, against all odds (and through no real personal effort or growth) there is a happy ending and we can all go out for ice cream afterwards.

Amy, you make an interesting point. Jurgis did start out very motivated and energetic and over time the system broke him down like all the rest. It makes me wonder where his strength and enthusiasm could have taken him if the system wasn't so brutal and crushing.

Amy, I didn't meant sound as if I was disagreeing with you. We share the same opinion on Jurgis. I just thought the way you compared him to a jock was hilarious.

Last night I was rambling about the evils of capitalism and an interesting parallel came to mind. In "The Jungle" the characters come to America under the promise of wealth, safety, and respect. When they get here they discover that while the wages are higher, the cost of living is much, much higher. In America today there are foreign workers who come here for jobs under the H1b Visa program. American companies can hire foreign skilled labor if none can be found in America. The greedy corporations exploit this by dropping the salary so low that no American can afford to work there and then they claim its just doggon impossible to find workers here in America. So, they bring in Chinese and Indians who are wowed at the idea of making $10 an hour because they made the equivalent of $10 a day back home...if they were lucky.

This is bad because it devalues the jobs for American workers, but its also bad for the H1b Visa workers because they come here with expectations similar to Jurgis' and find that while the wage is higher, the cost of living far outweighs it.

In this scenario everyone loses, except the short-sighted corporate leaders who can only see in terms of red and black ink.

Danielle, I was actually talking about a different death. Kristoforas is the one who crawled around on the floor and died of food poisoning. I think this it says a lot about this book that there were so many tragic deaths to keep track of that you got mixed up as to which one I meant.

Mike, I can see why you would want to put the book down. It's one giant, endless bummer. It's not even that well written, in my opinion. However, I think that's beside the point. The point being Sinclair's plan to make a name for himself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends he loses, or people he leaves dead and bloodied along the way...

I will urge you to finish it. At the very least you can say you did. Also, because we will be able to discuss the ending.

Amy, for me it was the way the family gradually lost hope and became so beaten down the the idea of the crippled child dying was seen by some as a relief. I mentioned that in my initial post. Yours was also very disturbing!

The way you describe Jurgis as a jock strikes me as hilarious. I had to go back and listen to the beginning again to catch that detail. When Jurgis got hired he was laughing at the men who had been waiting outside for months, calling them weak and drunken. He said "Do you want me to believe that with these arms"--and he would clench his fists and hold them up in the air, so that you might see the rolling muscles--that with these arms people will ever let me starve?"

The discussion begins!

I listened to the audiobook of The Jungle while driving to to vacation. It was one of those books I have heard about again and again over the years, but never got into for one reason or another. I knew the reputation it had as the inspiration for vegetarians and the effect it had on the meat industry. I had been told on multiple occasions that it would shock and disgust me, that eating meat would never be the same.

As the narrative rumbled up to speed my first thought was "This isn't so bad. It's just a wedding and it sounds quaint." The first sign of trouble was when the wedding crashers showed up and the idea of being ripped off by the barkeep was introduced. From there it went downhill.

What was the most disturbing part of the book for you guys? For me, it was the collapse of the family. When Kristoforas dies most of them were too beaten and broken to really care it really changed the tone of my experience with this book. The idea of the child crawling around on that shitty floor and then dying alone brought the novel from the level of vaguely unpleasant to genuinely disturbing.

You are in for a good time. that series is a fun read, most of the time, and it toes together a lot of his other work. There are websites that have a suggested reading order that might be worth looking into. They will recommend non-Dark Tower books to be read between volumes of this series.

Also, how about August 6th for the discussion?

The man in black continues to flee...

Would this be your first read-through of that series, Mike? If so, I envy you.

Upton Sinclair wins by a landslide! The Jungle is our next book. You have two weeks!

The election ends Wednesday. It was supposed to end today, but it's currently in a tie.

Link to the poll.