Cosmic’s
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(group member since Jan 17, 2014)
Cosmic’s
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from the Breaking The Code To The Catcher In The Rye group.
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My Secret Goldfish
Page 1,2
This is the name of a book of short stories that Holden's brother wrote. It is about a little kid that bought a gold-fish and wouldn't let anyone look at it because he bought it with his own money.
When I think of the word "short" in relation to the stock market ....well I naturally think about people making money when the market is falling. I think about people being laid off and a recession or depression setting in. I think about how it is hard for people to make ends meet because what was worth "x" when bought isn't selling today.
Or worse yet maybe the kid knew or create a falling market and made a bundle off of the demise of others knowingly.
Has this ever happened here?
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=t...
This book "The Secret Goldfish" would be a great title of a book on the parody on financial advice books.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/...
Also something interesting is how the insurance companies played a part in their demise...from the article above.
How did Germany's economy lead up to WW2?
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/m...
"Eventually the municipal finance collapsed in 1930. Although it seemed as if the collapse was due to debt, in actuality ordinary budgets were the reason for the initial collapse. Municipal officials and politicians were unable to restore order to the budgets. Further adding to Germany's economic problems, the revenue from income tax began to fall. In 1913, over fifty three percent of all tax revenues was from income, but in 1925, it dropped down to 28%. As the returns on income taxes decreased, the government began to depend much more on state trade and property tax. The government also became highly dependent on the profits made from municipal utilities, such as electric power plants.
" Even with all of Germany's economic shortcomings, it could have still been possible to make reparation payments if foreign countries had not placed protective tariffs on Germany's goods. With the income Germany could have gained by selling goods in foreign countries, for relatively low prices, reparation payments could have become feasible. The protective tariffs made this idea impossible and further depressed the German economy. Faced with reparation payments they could not afford, Germany began printing exaggerated amounts of money. This threw Germany into a state of super inflation. Inflation reached the point where millions of marks were worthless. Cartoons of the time depicted people with wheelbarrows full of money who could not buy a loaf of bread. "With the approach of world crisis foreign lenders withdrew capital and markets further closed against German imports" (Sweezy 8). The United States was an extremely significant example of this. When the U.S. was hit by the great depression they immediately sought to get the loans, which they had made to German, paid back. This, in addition to all of Germany's other problems, practically caused the German economy to collapse."
"With Germany at its weakest and most vulnerable point, Hitler took the opportunity to begin his ascent to power. Even to this date, in a country as diverse and liberally minded as the United States, when the economy is down people desire somewhere to place the blame. For example, the current use of illegal immigrants from Mexico as scapegoats for economic hardships. In Germany, Hitler used the Jewish people as a scapegoat for all of Germany's problems. With disproportional numbers of wealthy Jewish business owners, Hitler convinced much of Germany that the Jews were to blame for the poor economic state."
To me The Catcher In The Rye is supposed to be a warning. But since there are those that want us to be vulnerable and weak is it any wonder that Salinger had to hide his message in plain sight. How by using their own history, movies and "stars".
_______________________________________________
The article above comes from this website:
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/m...
The authors of this site are:
am Daniel Castillo and I am currently a third year business economics major. My portion of this website, I researched how the economic situation in Germany after WWI made it possible for Hitler to gain power. By searching through the University library and internet sources, I was able to find information on the German economy and how they led to the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party.
My name is Carlos Magana, I am a third year Political Science, emphasis in IR, and History Major. I researched how the Versailles Treaty played a role in the ascendance of Hitler into power. I decided to focus my research on the Versailles Treaty because I would argue that the political decisions made by leaders after WWI, ultimately influenced the course of history in the aftermath of WWI.
Hi my name is Steven Molina, I am currently a third year History Major, with emphasis on Public Policy. My research consisted of finding two books that would allow me to illustrate two different points of views on the rise of Hitler’s power. I chose Der Fuehrer Hitler’s Rise to Power, because it was written during the Nazi’s era. The other book I chose to compare and contrast was Hitler And Nazism. These two books were written in two different periods and have two different perspectives on the same topic.

Edward have you seen this post?https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I talk about Selma and her father. They have a very cozy relationship. Let me know what you think.


I agree! It is like armour. And since this is a phoney war everyone is pointing fingers (which is always the case in war)
I started looking who to attribute this quote to.
I found this quote:
Although frequently attributed to Sun Tzu (544�496 BC), "All warfare is based on deception"; the Sun Tzu quote actually refers to methods of subterfuge in war and goes further to explain, "Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near." The first corroborated quote reflecting the true essence, almost verbatim is "In war, truth is the first casualty," attributed to Greek writer/poet Aeschylus (525BC - 456BC).
Reese, Jeffersonville, IN United State
http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqu...
Aug 23, 2014 10:52PM

So another popular movie is called Man Hunt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Hunt...
This is based on the book Rogue Male
I started reading this when I read that the author of the book was encouraged by the Atlantic Monthly to write a novel. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffr...
"Meanwhile, encouraged by "Atlantic Monthly" he started to write professionally. His first novel, "The Third Hour", appeared in 1937, followed by a collection of short stories. One of his most successful novels was 1937's "Rogue Male", but he was unable to profit from its success as he had already been posted to Romania as an intelligence officer by the time it appeared. He was later transferred to the Middle East and remained there until 1945, after which he had almost to start again as a writer.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0396716/bi...
So if you remember Old Spencer kept dropping the Atlantic Monthly on the floor. Was this Salinger's way of saying "dropping hints"? I decided to read Rogue Male and see if there might be any lines in the book that Salinger copied.
I found this quote interesting because it reflects something that Salinger talks about in referring to school...
"I have been through a initiation ceremony on the ...the only way I could persuade them to teach me a slight muscular control over hemorrhage. And I thought it more of a disagreeable experience rather than a proof of maturity. It lasted only a day and a night. Whereas the initiation of the tribal ceremony of the English lasted ten years of education. We torture a boys spirit rather than his body. But all torture in the end is directed at the spirit. I was conditioned to endure without making an ass of myself, that is all I mean by detachment."
Old Spencer reads Holden's essay on page 11:
"I had to sit there and listen to that crap. It certainly was a dirty trick.
"The Egyptians are extremely interesting to us today for various reasons. Modern science would still like to know what the secret ingredients were that the Egyptians used when they wrapped up dead people so that their faces would not rot for innumerable centuries. This interesting riddle is still quite a challenge to modern science in the twentieth century. "
This sounds like a riddle, something to figure out. In my book I put a note "save face: - to keep your reputation and the respect of other people."
Well tonight in Rogue Male I read:
"I have noticed that what cats most appreciate in human beings is not the ability to produce food- which they take for granted- but his or her entertainment value. Asmodeus took to his toy enthusiastically. In another week he permitted me to stroke him, producing a raucous purr, but in order to save his face pretending to be asleep."
The man in the story named the cat Asmodeus because it was a wild cat. It was not civilized. Which reminds me of the Navajo blanket that Old Spencer is wearing. Also this reminds me of what the people of the great depression were going through. They were being conditioned to go into another world world through the theaters. (See my post on Radio City Music Hall)
Asmodeus http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodeus. He is a king of demons[1] mostly known from the deutero-canonical Book of Tobit, in which he is the primary antagonist.[2] The demon is also mentioned in some Talmudic legends, for instance, in the story of the construction of the Temple of Solomon."
Follow the link to "Book of Tobit" :
"The Book of Tobit is listed in the canon of the Councils of Hippo (393 AD), Carthage (397 AD), and Florence (1442), and is part of the canon of both the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Churches, although Roman Catholics often refer to it as deuterocanonical.[1]
"It is listed as a book of the "Apocrypha" in Article VI of the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England.[2] Tobit is regarded by Protestants as apocryphal because it was not included within the Tanakh nor considered canonical by Judaism."
This is interesting because of The Thirty Nine Steps.The Thirty-Nine Steps. Greenmantle
Now I want to read The Book of Tobit and the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty...
I don't know if this is relevant or not. It is like working a puzzle sometimes the prices fit and sometimes they don't fit yet. If you can study the world in a grain of rice then Salinger has done this, for me in the book THE CATCHER IN THE RYE.
Another thing that is significant about Geoffrey Household is that he worked as an intelligence agent for the British government during WW2. Somerset Maugham worked as an agent in WW2.
I have yet to watch the movie Man Hunt. When I do I will comment below about that.

No, its not. I think Jude, you and I have been there. No matter wha..."
I love Goodreads because if you want to get rid of the noise on the other discussion threads ....where they pile in there so they can make your post go to the next page; what you do, and what I think Holden would do if he found a bunch of morons that didn't want to discuss anything intelligently; is you block them.
You just click on their name on the list. This takes you to their home page. You go to the bottom of that page and you will see the word block. You click that and now you don't see their twaddle on the thread. You see that they wrote and if you want to read what they said you can just like a spoiler, but why spoil your day.
Just read the post like mine that actually says something that is not regurgitated "vomit" that they were fed. It is interesting that Ulysses talks about this. The dog returns to his vomit is what the Bible says. I just don't want to be vomited on so I am using Goodreads "block" feature. Now I read your post and Anne's and people that are new. I set up a winning game.


"With cigarettes and all, the check came to about thirteen bucks. I think they should've at least offered to pay for the drinks they had before I joined them--I wouldn't've let them, naturally, but they should've at least offered. I didn't care much, though. They were so ignorant, and they had those sad, fancy hats on and all. And that business about getting up early to see the first show at Radio City Music Hall depressed me. If somebody, some girl in an awful-looking hat, for instance, comes all the way to New York--from Seattle, Washington, for God's sake--and ends up getting up early in the morning to see the goddam first show at Radio City Music Hall, it makes me so depressed I can't stand it. I've bought the whole three of them a hundred drinks if only they hadn't told me that."
The Radio Music Hall:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_....
This is John D. Rockefeller creation.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D....
He was the only son among the five children of Standard Oil co-founder John D. Rockefeller
http://reformed-theology.org/html/boo...
"Regrettably, the Congressional committees did not explore an even more ominous aspect of this Standard Oil — I.G. Farben collusion: that at this time directors of Standard Oil of New Jersey had not only strategic warfare affiliations to I.G. Farben, but had other links with Hitler's Germany — even to the extent of contributing, through German subsidiary companies, to Heinrich Himmler's personal fund and with membership in Himmler's Circle of Friends as late as 1944."
"Another prominent example of Standard Oil assistance to Nazi Germany — in cooperation with General Motors — was in supplying ethyl lead. Ethyl fluid is an anti-knock compound used in both aviation and automobile fuels to eliminate knocking, and so improve engine efficiency; without such anti-knocking compounds modern mobile warfare would be impractical."
Holden is the name of a car made by GM.
http://www.holden.com.au/
During the thirties they made war related things.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden
"However, World War II delayed car production with efforts shifted to the construction of vehicle bodies, field guns, aircraft and engines.[15] Before the war ended, the Australian Government took steps to encourage an Australian automotive industry.[18] "
GM made:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW
Thus Holden's preoccupation with the ducks.
The Allies (Allies) go into Spain in 1948, no...just like Holden corrects Stradlater that it is Jane not Jean so you have to do this with Allie.
"He got leukemia and died when we were up in Maine, on July 18, 1946. You'd have liked him. He was two years younger than I was, but he was about fifty times as intelligent. "
http://www.sdheroes.com/?p=7276
"The war is usually taken as a prelude to World War II, which is often characterized as a clash between the left and right, between Hitler and Stalin, including the allies of each."
https://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/qu...
Spain and Portugal were Not Neutral during WW2 they just said they were Portugal was selling Ore to the Nazis
Spain was the Conduit for food Oil fuel supplied By standard Oil IG Farben up to July 1944 when France fell Spain was of Little Value to the Germans and the British in 1944 convinced the Portugal to stop dealing with the Nazis
Sweden was selling Ball bearings to the German GM factory and also supplying the ITT Factory Ball bearings ITT was Building Focke Wulf's
and we all Know that the Swiss who also claimed Neutrality were Hitlers Bankers.


called Man Hunt
If you click on the author of the novel (because Holden hates the movies) you will see that Geoffrey Household was "encouraged by "Atlantic Monthly" he started to write professionally."
In chapter 2 Old Spencer kept dropping the Atlantic Monthly. Was this to represent dropping hints?
One of the reviewers of his book Rogue Male said this:
"The ultimate 'chase' novel. Gripping, absorbing and incredibly realistic. If you ever wanted to know what it would be like to be chased and hunted down like a wounded animal then this is the book you should read. In my opinion it is considerably better than John Buchan's thriller The 39 Steps."
This is my next read. I am going to watch the movie also. Does anyone else have some favorite WW2 movies that were produced before 1951 and that you think may have influenced or be alluded to in the Catcher?

Ok so I reread this on page one, "I'll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened to me around Christmas."
(view spoiler)

I went back to the link I made about the first Revolutionary War victim being a slave. He was a black sailor.
"1770: THIRTEEN COLONIES. According to John Adams, who would become the second president of the United States, "a motley rabble of saucy boys, Negroes and mulattoes, Irish Teagues and outlandish jack tarrs," were harassing a British sentry. He calls for help, but the soldiers who come to his rescue are driven back by the mob. The "rabble" grows to about fifty people armed with rocks and sticks. The crowd are warned to desist but continue to throw rocks at the British soldiers. Eventually, the soldiers open fire on the mob killing five. The first to die is a black sailor, Crispus Attucks. Several British soldiers are ultimately convicted of manslaughter.
Attucks is often said to be the first person to die in the American Revolution. The irony of a black man being the first person to die in a revolution which had the primary purpose of maintaining slavery seems to have escaped notice. In 1888, the City of Boston erected a rather florid statue to Attucks on Boston Common, again without a hint of irony."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crispu...
When you read down the page that I will link at the bottom of post you will see that despite all the propaganda we have been taught it looks like our founding fathers may have been protecting their right to own slaves.
"With more than two centuries of propaganda, brainwashing and masturbatory invention on the subject of the American Revolution, it is all but impossible to find reference in the United States, outside scholarly works, to the fact that throughout the 1760s and 1770s, there was a growing movement to abolish slavery throughout the British Empire, including the Thirteen Colonies. The abolition campaign reached a climactic point on June 22, 1772 when Lord Mansfield, Lord Chief Justice of Britain, handed down an epoch-making decision in the case of the "Negro slave known as James Somerset", against the man who purported to own him, Charles Steuart of Virginia."
There is a lot more here but it gives you a taste.
http://mtwsfh.blogspot.com/2007/12/li...
I remember the slogan for Revolution is http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libert...
If you look at the picture of liberty holding beside her a faeces. This is the same word that we get fascists from. I talk more about this
https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/1...
What a strange freedom?
I keep thinking about how Benjamin Franklin's son fought on the side of the Loyalists. He was captured by the revolutionaries http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willia...
I wondered why he would remain a Loyalists? Fighting against his father's interest? Perhaps he knew what the real issues were? Maybe he thought it was a war for slavery? And he was an abolitionist? I don't know but it definitely was bold of him.

I Is An Other; The Secret life of Me..."
I was reading a book Creativity for Critical Thinkers. He mentions another association that related to what you were saying about sports and war. He was talking about sport team names.
"Right now there are at best, only two or three types of names: predatory animals (Hawks, Tigers, etc), maybe; warlike attitudes (Avengers, Spartans, etc.)" and weather like "Tornadoes".
We have the same types of names used for airplanes and missions.
We also have numbers for the individuals, in both war and sports. We have metals or awards, see: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Thanks for making me think of different associations.

I Is An Other; The Secret life of Me..."
Thank you for your comment. This is totally relevant! I had not heard of this book. Thank you for recommending it, I definitely want to read it.
The connection between football or ball games and war are fantastic!
Salinger loved Ring Lardner books. They have a lot of wit in them. In You Know Me Al he reveals how games are set up to create winners and losers.
I have read this one and it is very funny if you are a sports (baseball fan).
You Know Me Al: A Busher's Letters

Page 2
I wanted to know if there was perhaps a version of the Revolutionary War that was different and perhaps even "crazy" to the one that I was taught in school. Well today I found the rest of the story.
http://mtwsfh.blogspot.com/2007/12/li...
This will tell you that the first person to die in the Revolutionary War was really a slave. That there were treaties that the founding father's made with the Indians that they never intended to make good on. That our founding father's wouldn't have been wealthy without slavery and slavery was being abolished in England and it's colonies. Was this the real reason for the Revolutionary War?

"
This reminds me of Lord of the Flies. I think this is mob rule which turns into a dictatorship. I am guessing there is a progression. Seems like recently I was reading about this. Might it have been something you said?

..."
I like that!
I think this is what is dangerous about having Public Education where we get "textbooks" to tell us what our history is. Our history helps us make sense of today. If we have a bias historical record then how can we "see" what is going on. We have what H.G. Wells described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coun...
The Country of the Blind
I have a couple of links to the companies that were involved in WW2 in my latest post
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
It is interesting how this war made a lot of men rich and powerful. Money covers a multitude of sins here in America. We seem not to see the sin if they can put on a pretty mask.
It is not being educated that is dangerous but intentionally being uneducated. Schools are the state religion. Schools were always set up to hold certain truths and to deposit them in their students....something that is definitely a theme of The Catcher in the Rye and mirrored in the movie The 39 Steps.
Jul 30, 2014 10:14AM

One of the incredible things I get from writing about the Catcher is another tidbit. I was reading it and noticed "I mean you'd be diferent in some way - I can't explain what I mean. And even if I could, I'm not sure I'd feel like it."
I am not sure I can explain it either. But this is what I have so far:
Now if you look at my money post:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
you will see he did the same thing to sixty...italicizeling "six". Which I think stands for the six million Jews. So I looked up DIF they have been around since 1934.
https://www.difxs.com/DIF/Home.aspx
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposi...
I don't know very much about them...except I am sure they were put in place to give people more confidence to put their money in the bank after the panic of '29. (Have you seen 'secrets of OZ' on YouTube?)
So AIG was the company I was referring to:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...
AIG traces its roots back to 1919, when American Cornelius Vander Starr (1892-1968) established a general insurance agency, American Asiatic Underwriters (AAU), in Shanghai, China.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel...
Cornelius Van der Starr also known as Neil Starr or C.V. Starr (October 15, 1892 – December 20, 1968) was an American businessman and operative of the Office of Strategic Services who was best known for founding the American International Group (AIG), a major corporation in the 21st century.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office...
The Office of Strategic Services (OSS) was a United States intelligence agency formed during World War II. It was the wartime intelligence agency, and a predecessor of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
What kind of information would they have that the U.S. government would find of interest. What was America's role in WW2? What was Hitler's role? If all the world is a stage and we are merely actors, what were their roles in the B rated movie. Take the patriotism and all emotional triggers out of it. If it had been a bank robber movie with cowboys and Indians how would you loosely describe it?
Between Miss Aigletinger and "dif_ferent" is this sentence "Or you'd just passed by one of those puddles in the street with gasoline rainbows in them." At the beginning of this chapter he talks about the family coming out of church and the boy walking in the street singing "if a body catch a body coming through the rye".
So what American companies helped Germany in WW2?
8 American Companies That Worked with the Nazis During World War II
8 American Companies That Worked with the Nazis During World War II
Although there were sanctions and restrictions against working with Germany during World War II, especially when America entered the war in 1941, there were some American companies that profited off both sides of World War II. Here are 8 examples.
Coca-Cola Company.
Coca-Cola played both American and German sides during World War II, but in 1941, the German side ran out of sugary syrup to make the soft drink. So Coca-Cola’s German division invented Fanta to continue to sell Coca-Cola brands in the Germany without breaking any restrictions or an embargo.
Kodak.
The German branch of Kodak used Jewish slave labor from concentration camps but continued to produce film stock for the Axis Powers during the War.
Chase Bank.
Chase Bank was one of many around the world that continued to work with Nazi during World War II. They also froze the assets of many European Jewish customers as a common practice to cooperate with the Third Reich.
Ford.
Believe it or not, Henry Ford was an anti-Semite and was awarded a Nazi medal, designed for “distinguished foreigners” in 1938. Ford continued to sell and make cars with Russian slave labor for American and Germans during World War II.
IBM.
The computer company built specialized equipment for the Germans to help them track day-to-day operations, including victims of the Holocaust.
General Electric.
GE partnered with German manufacturing firm Krupp to help build Hitler’s army and used Jewish slave labor to build gas chambers during World War II and the Holocaust. The U.S. Government fined GE for working with the Nazis, but the American company continued to profit off of the War. It was estimated that GE made $1.5 million in 1936 alone from working with Krupp and the Nazis.
Random House.
Bertelsmann A.G. is a Random House’s parent company and they continued to publish Nazi propaganda and Adolf Hitler’s writings during World War II.
Standard Oil.
The oil company was one of the very few that could produce tetraethyl lead gas to fuel the German military, so they were another American company that played both sides during the War. Imagine if Standard Oil didn’t produce or sell fuel for the Nazi…
https://www.phactual.com/8-american-c...
http://mtwsfh.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/...

Note the date it was issued and the date they discontinued it.
The Federal Reserve was created in December 24, 1913. The dime was minted with 90% silver and 10% copper.
"The death of President Franklin Roosevelt in April 1945 brought immediate calls for a coin to be issued with his image. As Roosevelt had been closely associated with the March of Dimes, and as the dime's design could be replaced without the need for congressional action as it had been struck for more than 25 years, the Treasury chose that denomination to honor Roosevelt."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosev...
With the passage of the Coinage Act of 1965, the composition of the dime changed from 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper to a clad "sandwich" of pure copper inner layer between two outer layers of cupronickel (75% copper, 25% nickel) alloy[23] giving a total composition of 91.67% Cu and 8.33% Ni. This composition was selected because it gave similar mass (now 2.268 grams instead of 2.5 grams) and electrical properties (important in vending machines)—and most importantly, because it contained no precious metal.
I wanted to know when this changed and why they minted a new dime. I think it is ironic that we had a dime with a fascist symbol on it while we were at war with Germany and Italy...and Japan.

I do to. I have some theories but nothing tangible yet. I think that the more I keep studying the Catcher the more arguments may be made to support one or more of my hunches.
I am interested in any idea you might have.
Or anyone else reading this thread might have.