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The Catcher in the Rye
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Breaking The Code To The Catcher In The Rye: Money

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message 1: by Cosmic (last edited Jun 23, 2016 09:03PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Page 178,179.
Holden is fixing to leave his family's condo. He ask Phoebe for some money. Phoebe searches in the dark. "It was pitch-black, it was so dark in the room." ..."She was trying to give me the dough, but she couldn't find my hand."..."How much is it for God's sake?" "Eight dollars and eighty-five cents. Sixty-five cents, I spent some."
"Then, all of a sudden, I started to cry. I couldn't help it. I did it so nobody could hear me, but I did it. It scared hell out of old Phoebe when I started doing it, and she came over and tried to make me stop, but once you get started, you can't just stop on a goddam dime. I was still sitting on the edge of the bed when I did it, and she put her old arm around my neck, and I put my arm around her, too, but I still couldn't stop for a long time. I thought I was going to choke to death or something. Boy, I scared hell out of poor old Phoebe. The damn window was open and everything, and I could feel her shivering and all, because all she had on was her pajamas. I tried to make her get back in bed, but she wouldn't go. Finally I stopped. But it certainly took me a long, long time. Then I finished buttoning my coat and all. I told her I'd keep in touch with her. She told me I could sleep with her if I wanted to, but I said no, that I'd better beat it, that Mr. Antolini was waiting for me and all. Then I took my hunting hat out of my coat pocket and gave it to her. She likes those kind of crazy hats. She didn't want to take it, but I made her. I'll bet she slept with it on. She really likes those kind of hats. Then I told her again I'd give her a buzz if I got a chance, and then I left. "


Eight could represent "December 8, 1941 - The United States, led by US president, Franklin D Roosevelt, declares war on the Axis powers."http://www.datesandevents.org/events-...

She says she has 85 cents and then corrects herself by saying 65 cents. The difference between those two numbers is 20. So she spent 20, which might refer to: "August 6: The United States drops atomic bomb on Hiroshima (20 kiloton bomb 'Little Boy' kills 80,000)"

The word sixty was italicized in the book. This might refer to: " World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population. " http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...

Sixty-five may refer to the 65th division. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/65th_I... 65th Infantry Division—nicknamed the "Battle-axe"—was an infantry division of the United States Army that served in World War II. Its shoulder patch is a white halberd on a blue shield.
http://www.lonesentry.com/65thbook/in...


Pennsylvania route 65 is named after this infantry. The route begins in the Golden Triangle of Pittsburgh. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden... The area features offices for major corporations such as PNC Bank, U.S. Steel, PPG, Bank of New York Mellon, Heinz, Federated Investors and Alcoa. It is where the fortunes of such industrial barons as Andrew Carnegie, Henry Clay Frick, Henry J. Heinz, Andrew Mellon and George Westinghouse were made. Did these companies profit from the war?
Overseas: 10 January 1945.
Campaigns: Rhineland, Central Europe.
Days of combat: 55

Now that I have taken another look at the number sixty I think that only the "six" is italicized. This would be a reference to the six million Jews that were killed in WW2.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...

This would explain Holden emotional out burst. Phoebe tries to comfort him. Holden says it was it was no use because "once you get started, you can't just stop on a goddam dime. "

What about this "goddam dime"? First it is in italics just like the number six-ty.



The dime was called a mercury dime. Designed by Adolph Weinman and also referred to as the Winged Liberty Head dime, it gained its common name as the obverse depiction of a young Liberty, identifiable by her winged Phrygian cap, was confused with the Roman god Mercury.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph...
Weinman's dime depicts Liberty (not Mercury) with a wreath of tight curls, and wearing a traditional pileus, or Liberty cap. The pileus was especially associated with the manumission of slaves. who wore it upon their liberation. It became emblematic of liberty and freedom from bondage.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pileus...
Among the Romans the cap of felt was the emblem of liberty. When a slave obtained his freedom he had his head shaved, and wore instead of his hair an undyed pileus. Hence the phrase servos ad pileum vocare is a summons to liberty, by which slaves were frequently called upon to take up arms with a promise of liberty.
"The reverse depicts a fasces, the object carried by lictors, who accompanied Roman magistrates; on the coin it represents war and justice. It is contrasted with a large olive branch symbolizing peace.[25][26] According to Breen, "Weinman's symbolic message in this design ... was clearly an updated 'Don't tread on me'".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercur...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

Fasces (/ˈfæsiːz/, a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle")[1] is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces had its origin in the Etruscan civilization, and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction. The image has survived as a representation of magisterial or collective power. Fasces frequently occurs as a charge in heraldry, as well as on the US dime, as the symbol of a number of Italian socialist parties, including the Unione Sindacale Italiana, and the namesake of fascism.

The symbolism of the fasces suggested strength through unity; a single rod is easily broken, while the bundle is very difficult to break. The axe represented the power over life or death through the death penalty, although after the laws of the twelve tables, no Roman magistrate could summarily execute a Roman citizen.
The term is related to the modern Italian word fascio, used in the 20th century to designate peasant cooperatives and industrial workers' unions.

Numerous governments and other authorities have used the image of the fasces for a symbol of power since the end of the Roman Empire. It has also been used to hearken back to the Roman republic, particularly by those who see themselves as modern-day successors to the old republic and/or its ideals. Italian Fascism, which derives its name from the fasces, arguably used this symbolism the most in the 20th century. The British Union of Fascists also used it in the 1930s. However, the fasces, as a widespread and long-established symbol in the West, has avoided the stigma associated with much of fascist symbolism, and many authorities continue to display them, including the federal government of the United States."

Eventually Holden gives Phoebe back her money.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Edward wrote: "Your insights into TCITR continue to impress me. Tangentially, have you ever wondered why Holden seems to always refer to Phoebe as "old Phoebe?" I do."

I do to. I have some theories but nothing tangible yet. I think that the more I keep studying the Catcher the more arguments may be made to support one or more of my hunches.

I am interested in any idea you might have.
Or anyone else reading this thread might have.


message 3: by Cosmic (last edited Jun 03, 2016 09:04PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Something I forgot to mention. "The Mercury dime is a ten-cent coin struck by the United States Mint from 1916 to 1945."

Note the date it was issued and the date they discontinued it.

The Federal Reserve was created in December 24, 1913. The dime was minted with 90% silver and 10% copper.

"The death of President Franklin Roosevelt in April 1945 brought immediate calls for a coin to be issued with his image. As Roosevelt had been closely associated with the March of Dimes, and as the dime's design could be replaced without the need for congressional action as it had been struck for more than 25 years, the Treasury chose that denomination to honor Roosevelt."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosev...

With the passage of the Coinage Act of 1965, the composition of the dime changed from 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper to a clad "sandwich" of pure copper inner layer between two outer layers of cupronickel (75% copper, 25% nickel) alloy[23] giving a total composition of 91.67% Cu and 8.33% Ni. This composition was selected because it gave similar mass (now 2.268 grams instead of 2.5 grams) and electrical properties (important in vending machines)—and most importantly, because it contained no precious metal.

I wanted to know when this changed and why they minted a new dime. I think it is ironic that we had a dime with a fascist symbol on it while we were at war with Germany and Italy...and Japan.


message 4: by Cosmic (last edited Jul 30, 2014 10:45AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Edward wrote: "How many "coincidences" does it take to prove a willful pattern? The query of a few hard headed "scientists" has produced no answer.
..."


I like that!


I think this is what is dangerous about having Public Education where we get "textbooks" to tell us what our history is. Our history helps us make sense of today. If we have a bias historical record then how can we "see" what is going on. We have what H.G. Wells described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coun...
The Country of the Blind

I have a couple of links to the companies that were involved in WW2 in my latest post

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

It is interesting how this war made a lot of men rich and powerful. Money covers a multitude of sins here in America. We seem not to see the sin if they can put on a pretty mask.

It is not being educated that is dangerous but intentionally being uneducated. Schools are the state religion. Schools were always set up to hold certain truths and to deposit them in their students....something that is definitely a theme of The Catcher in the Rye and mirrored in the movie The 39 Steps.


message 5: by Matthew (last edited Jul 30, 2014 11:46AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Matthew Bargas | 9 comments Cosmic wrote: However, the fasces, as a widespread and long-established symbol in the West, has avoided the stigma associated with much of fascist symbolism, and many authorities continue to display them, including the federal government of the United States."

Mousolini went over the top and gave the fasces a bad name by association, but does that mean that we should reject a symbol that had previously been an integral part of the Western Legacy? Lincoln also believed in strength in unity as he talked about preserving the Union.

Hitler was frequently photographed posing with children. Should we then reject all politicians who pose with children?

http://www.ww2f.com/topic/33697-hitle...


message 6: by Matthew (last edited Jul 30, 2014 12:08PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Matthew Bargas | 9 comments Matthew wrote: "Cosmic wrote: However, the fasces, as a widespread and long-established symbol in the West, has avoided the stigma associated with much of fascist symbolism, and many authorities continue to displa..."
In addition to Fascism, there was the analogous party in Spain which was Falangism, promoting aging the idea of the strength in unity, like the Ancient Spartan Phalanx, as explained by Leonidas in the movie 300:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ0CP...

Although we can agree that there is strength in unity, the problem comes when the fascist or falangist state decides that those who cannot participate in the unit are of no value, and therefore aims to dispose of them.


Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Matthew wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Although we can agree that there is strength in unity, the problem comes when the fascist or falangist state decides that those who cannot participate in the unit are of no value, and therefore aims to dispose of them.
"


This reminds me of Lord of the Flies. I think this is mob rule which turns into a dictatorship. I am guessing there is a progression. Seems like recently I was reading about this. Might it have been something you said?


message 8: by Cosmic (last edited Sep 01, 2014 04:53PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Edward wrote: "But, Pennsey (possibly sic) reminds me of "pence"; a way to denote British currency, if not the face value of their notes. Is this possibly a reference to British influencing control of the "Colonies?" Just a phonetic perception coupled with that which is still very "unscientific," implied derisiveness dismissed in sarcasm, only understood by the few truly enlightened...."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny
a unit of currency (pl. pence) used in several English-speaking countries. It is often the smallest denomination within a currency system.

This is very good. The spelling of the school is Pencey Prep.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/di...
To study or train in preparation for something

The student in Pencey Prep is the smallest denomination of a human being. Look at the 2 page of the Catcher.

Where I want to start telling is the day I left Pencey Prep. Pencey Prep is this school that's in Agerstown, Pennsylvania. You probably heard of it. You've probably seen the ads, anyway. They advertise in about a thousand magazines, always showing some hotshot guy on a horse jumping over a fence. Like as if all you ever did at Pencey was play polo all the time. I never even once saw a horse anywhere near the place. And underneath the guy on the horse's picture, it always says: "Since 1888 we have been molding boys into splendid, clear-thinking young men." Strictly for the birds. They don't do any damn more molding at Pencey than they do at any other school. And I didn't know anybody there that was splendid and clear-thinking and all. Maybe two guys. If that many. And they probably came to Pencey that way.



How would you like your money to jump over fences?

For the birds? What kind? Vultures

For more reference on birds I will be posting something soon.

"Pencey was full of crooks....The more expensive a school is the more crooks it has."

It makes me think of currency wars.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curren...

They kinda act like this is a new thing but it is the same pig with new lipstick.

When Money Dies: The Nightmare Of The Weimar Hyper Inflation

So these are the new elites learning their trade. Trafficking in war, power, manipulation of money and people.

I have been spending time reading other books named or referenced in the Catcher. I will write about what I have found this week.


Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
From The Decline of the West

"For it will become manifest that, from this moment on, all great conflicts of world-outlook, of politics, of art, of science, of feeling will be under the influence of this one opposition. What is the hall-mark of a politic of Civilization to-day, in contrast to a politic of Culture yesterday? It is, for the Classical rhetoric, and for the Western journalism, both serving that abstract which represents the power of Civilization — money?"

To me this says that politics is either built on culture or civilization. If it is culture it wants to be remembered for them it creates art, science is important. But if it is civilization them money and power and conquest are important. This will be evident in war! The opposite of culture.


Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
MASTERS OF WAR

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.
Like Judas of old You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.------- Bob Dylan 1963


Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02...

This is about currency and the collapse of the Roman empire. Perhaps there is a lesson in there for us.


message 12: by Cosmic (last edited Mar 15, 2016 07:55AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
When did the U.S. dollar become the world currency?
In the period following the Bretton Woods Conference of 1944, exchange rates around the world were pegged against the United States dollar, which could be exchanged for a fixed amount of gold. This reinforced the dominance of the US dollar as a global currency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World...

Another out come if WW2.


message 13: by Cosmic (last edited Jun 23, 2016 10:05PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Cosmic wrote: "Page 178,179.tried to make me stop, but once you get started, you can't just stop on a goddam dime. I was still sitting on the edge of the bed when I did it,
..."

Sitting on the edge of the bed reminded me of Holden's visit to Spencer.

"Four." I moved my ass a little bit on the bed. It was the hardest bed I ever sat on. "I passed English all right," I said, "because I had all that Beowulf and Lord Randal My Son stuff when I was at the Whooton School. I mean I didn't have to do any work in English at all hardly, except write compositions once in a while."

Bohemian Club

[The Bohemian Club's] symbol is an owl, which has been in use since the first year the Club started. The owl has come to symbolize the wisdom of life and companionship, that allows humans to struggle with and survive the cares and frustration of the world. The owl is found on all Bohemian materials from matchbook covers and doormats to the most elaborate Club publications. For $34.00 you can even own an owl-emblemed sports shirt. A forty foot concrete owl stands at the head of the lake in the Grove. This owl shrine was built in 1929 to serve as a ceremonial site for traditional Bohemian rituals and is used yearly for the Cremation of Care Ceremony.

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2015...

Jack London talks about this club in Martin Eden


I think this is significant, given that Sooner gives us a humid of history in hindsight!
The 19th-century idealist philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel famously noted that "the owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk"—meaning that philosophy comes to understand a historical condition just as it passes away.[17]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owl_o...

Philosophy cannot be prescriptive because it understands only in hindsight.


message 14: by Cosmic (last edited Jun 12, 2020 07:39PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
I came across an article about Penny Universities as they were called. It reminded me of the kind of connections made at an Ivy League School.

https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK...

"The London Stock Exchange had its beginnings in Jonathan’s Coffee House in 1698 where gentlemen met to set stock and commodity prices. Auctions in salesrooms attached to coffee houses were the beginnings of the great auction houses of Sotheby’s and Christies. Lloyd’s of London had its origins in Lloyds Coffee House on Lombard Street, run by Edward Lloyd, where merchants, shippers and underwriters of ship insurance met to do business."

"By 1739, there were over 550 coffeehouses in London. However the coffee house fell out of favour towards the end of the 18th century as the new fashion for tea replaced coffee. They gave way to, and largely influenced, the exclusive gentleman’s club of the late 18th century."


Cosmic Arcata | 198 comments Mod
Getting the Ax Chapter 1


So I got the ax. They give guys the ax quite frequently at Pencey. It has a very good academic rating, Pencey. It really does.

Since I talked about money in the last message I thought I would just continue with this one.

There is another place where Holden talks about it being hard to turn around on a dime.

So I thought that was an interesting idiom that needed to be investigated. As a result I discovered what the Ax was about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury...

Note that it was in circulation during the war years.

The Mercury dime is a ten-cent coin struck by the United States Mint from late 1916 to 1945. Designed by Adolph Weinman and also referred to as the Winged Liberty Head dime,
it gained its common name because the obverse depiction of a young Liberty, identifiable by her winged Phrygian cap, was confused with the Roman god Mercury.

Kinda interesting after seeing the way they can make Jackson's face change on the 20 dollar bill (see message 55). Maybe these designs and confusions are done of purpose as a inside joke...but not really very funny joke.

The AX

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

" The coin's reverse depicts a fasces, symbolizing unity and strength, and an olive branch, signifying peace."



Ancient Rome
https://www.mikeanderson.biz/2009/03/...
Fasces were also adopted by the United States as an important symbol of power. They are displayed in the House of Representatives, Oval Office (no axe), on the Seal of the United States, on the Supreme Court Building, and under the hands of Lincoln in his memorial (no axe).

Was the US to be the Military Arm of the United Nations?

The God Mercury
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury...
God of financial gain, commerce, eloquence, messages, communication, travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery, merchants, thieves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury...


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