Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2013)

Jonathan’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Ok, so we're on to volume 5, The Captive or The Prisoner...or A Prisioneira. Patrick Alexander says that this one and the following volume 'are the most difficult and least satisfactory of all seven volumes'. Well, we're only one week in but it would have to deteriorate quite dramatically for me to agree with him; I might do by the end though.

First of all I think I'll mention that I don't really like the idea of grouping Vol.5 & 6 into a single volume; I know they're connected quite closely, but it doesn't really seem necessary as we're only really thinking of each volume as the next installment of a single work and together it makes quite a chunky book (ok, I'm reading it on a kindle so it's not physically chunky but still...) How do others feel about this? It's not a major concern but I would have thought that the Penguin version, as they're more concerned with staying as close to the original as possible, would have issued ISOLT as a seven volume set.

Talking of the Penguin version, I'm going to do what I did with the last volume, which is read the Vintage MKE version but use the Penguin version (a library copy) as a supplementary book as it has great notes, the synopsis is better and it has introductory notes. It's also useful to compare the translations sometimes. It also has a great cover - a detail of Whistler's 'Mrs Frederick R Leyland':

Image from Wikipedia.

I think you make a good point Dave; any reader should ask themselves how others would judge their own views and lifestyle if fully revealed. It still shouldn't stop us commenting on the narrator though :-)

I also liked Aunt Leonie in vol. 1. She also spent a lot of time in bed and was obsessed with what was going on outside. If I remember correctly, wasn't Françoise originally her maid at Combray? Maybe Françoise sees a bit of Leonie in the narrator.

He's occasionally quite creepy and at times comes across as one of those abductors like Josef Fritzl, locking the victim away in the cellar whilst appearing normal to the outside world.

Ok, I've started The Captive but I re-read Chapter 4 of S&G before starting it. I noticed in this section where I'd put a note on my kindle on my first reading, 'you little shit'; it was related to this:

In reality my grief had begun only at Parville, and my nervous irritability, which was very different but which fortunately Albertine identified with it, arose from the tedium of having to spend a few more days in her company.

So he's bored with her, but he doesn't want her to go anywhere without him so he can keep an eye on her. He then goes on:

Today, in order that Albertine might not go to Trieste, I would have endured every possible torment, and if that proved insufficient, would have inflicted torments on her, would have isolated her, kept her under lock and key, would have taken from her the little money that she had so that it should be physically impossible for her to make the journey.

The man (child) is a monster! I haven't read much of The Captive yet but this chapter looks as if it's a good link between the two volumes.

Dave wrote: "Well Jonathan those are sound suggestions for keeping the riff-raff out of the group. However, I would base the sincerity of my claim on the diligence that I adhere to my favorite character's behav..."

Great stuff Dave! Do you have an electric buzzer near to your bed to summon Francois when you awake at noon?

Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "Marcelita, I am trying to join the Moderated Yahoo Proust group (the one with 707 members). I applied two weeks ago and my membership got rejected after ..."

Are you sure that there's not a test to join? Maybe the prospective member has to memorise every character in ISOLT or learn the bloodline of the Guermantes by heart?

Dave wrote: "This Extension of Swan in Love also speaks frankly of Swann's death and gives very moving commentary on life and death with specific reference to Swann. This commentary carries through by implicati..."

I slightly preferred vol.2 to vol.1; I think in part because we started to find out more about the characters introduced in vol.1 and that they were starting to interact and influence the other characters. I remember the Norpois scene as particularly good. In fact, it was when I compared the Penguin version with the MKE of that part that made me switch. However, I've switched back to MKE for Vol.4 and others.

BTW feel free to start new 're-reading' folders if you wish. The assumption will be that it may contain spoilers - though it may be a good idea to make it explicit in the opening comment.

I think this weekend, I'm going to re-read the opening chapter of S&G before advancing on to The Prisoner. If I have time I may re-read the section you mentioned above, from Vol.2.

Dave wrote: "This belongs in Volume Two but I can't figure out which week.

When the group read Vol. 2 was the continuation of the "Swann in Love" story in the middle of the Norpois dinner discussed?"

n.b. this comment has been moved from S&G thread.

I seem to remember this Dave; there's a big black hole in the narrative from the end of Swann in Love where Swann declares that he's not interested in Odette and then vol. 2 where they're married. It caused quite a bit of confusion.

Yes, I liked the Penguin version for vol.2.

I just realised Dave, that you might overtake us with your re-read!

It's been a little odd not reading any Proust this week! Bring on the next volumes...I'm ready to get stuck in...even if they are supposed to be difficult!

Ruth wrote: "I think it is safe to say that reading Proust is an experience like no other. So, after reading such an transporting book, the question that remains is what to read next? Where do you go from this ..."

Welcome to the group Ruth. Although I'm enjoying the Proust experience, and I agree that it's an 'experience like no other', I wouldn't say that the experience is entirely 'life-changing' or that Proust is my favourite author...heck, he isn't even my favourite French author...but he is an interesting and unique author; and for that, the experience is thoroughly worthwhile.

Are you reading Proust? Have you already read Proust?

Dave wrote: "As for Albertine and her friends, this is one of many speculations the narrator obsesses over. It like the narrator transforms into Gollum, squatting in his dark cool den, drooling and obsessing ov..."

Thanks Dave! I won't be able to get that image out of my head now when I read it. :-)

Stephen wrote: "But we have no idea what Swann really thought about this, or how the narrator got his information. The whole Swann in Love story could be a novel written by the narrator based on his own experiences of love and jealousy."

I hope you're not implying that 'Swann in Love' was made up by the narrator, Stephen? Mind you...that would be quite cool.

Dave wrote: "Albertine know both daughter and friend Sunny."

Hence the narrator's jealousy and paranoia..he! he!

Renato wrote: "That must be interesting, Jonathan. As she doesn't seem to mind his instability at all. If he wants to see her that night, she agrees; if he doesn't, that's ok; he says he loves someone else, no pr..."

I think the problem for us at this stage is that we only have the narrator's suspicions to go on. I don't think there's been any evidence of infidelities up to now - other than her talking to Saint-Loup, and women looking at her. Which all just makes the narrator appear more paranoid...but I'm guessing he'll be proved at least partially right.

Renato wrote: "There was a passage in this week's read that he said he was falling for Albertine, and then something like 15 pages later he said he didn't love her. At first I thought "is this an editing glitch?" but then just assumed he changed his mind quickly... ."

Yes, and one moment he & Albertine can't keep their hands off of each other and then he's declaring that he's bored of her...weird, but interesting.

The book Albertine looks interesting - I think it's supposed to be her view of events.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Is this the SAME de Charlus that's been in the previous volumes? I mean, I know that it is, but he came across so haughty and rude and mean when he first met ..."

He's certainly very volatile; we've seen him haughty and rude, obsequious when he first arrived at the Verdurins', all lovey-dovey with Morel. But he's very manipulative and has other ways of getting what he wants...read on...

Am I the only one who wonders how Morel's algebra lessons went? :-)

Dave wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "The only bit I really remember disliking in SW was when Swann was getting really obsessive over Odette - that seemed to go on for ages..yawn." Ugh Oh, you may become as frustrated ..."

I'm trying to prepare myself for the next two volumes. When I finished reading S&G I had a sneaky look in the section for 'The Prisoner/Captive' in the Patrick Alexander book and the opening sentence is this:

The next two volumes, The Captive and The Fugitive are the most difficult and least satisfactory of all seven volumes.

...gulp!

Dave wrote: "An interesting experience for me in rereading is that sections I dreaded were much shorter - I thought the snuffling around the hawthorns was going to last for twenty pages and it was much shorter ..."

The only bit I really remember disliking in SW was when Swann was getting really obsessive over Odette - that seemed to go on for ages..yawn. I loved the hawthorns bit...oh beautiful hawthorns I'll never leave you...