Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2013)

Jonathan’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Seeing an aeroplane must have been quite an event then and brings the narrator to tears when he's out riding a horse in a valley. It's portrayed on www.davidwesleyrichardson.com which was (of course) brought to our attention by Marcelita.

"I do not wish to leave the reader under the impression that Morel was entirely wicked. He was, rather, a mass of contradictions, capable on certain days of genuine kindness."

It will be interesting to see one of those days...so far he's been a bit of a nasty piece of work.

Hi Dave. Well I started off reading the MKE version (Vintage inUK but it's the same as the ModLib in US) but then I got curious and started looking at the Penguin version of vol 2. Perversely what made me look at it was that a lot of people dismissed it. Anyway, I thought it read really well and decided to switch to the Penguin version which I continued with vol 3. The big drawback for me is the way they handle dialogue; they follow Proust's 'system' but I think I prefer the way MKE sorts it out to a more standard format. I finally gave up with S&G as I thought the translation was terrible (in places) to MKE and there were typos etc so I switched back to MKE. Penguin has good intros and a lot of notes so I now read a bought MKE on kindle and get the Penguin version from library to compare if needed as sometimes it's nice to compare them. I added some of this on the 'translations' thread if you're interested.

Renato wrote: "
“At least, in these awakenings which I have just described, and which I experienced as a rule when I had been dining overnight at la Raspelière, everything occurred as though by this process, an..."

I've just started re-reading the beginning of chapter 3 and this bit (the part you highlighted in bold) jumped out at me this time...it didn't on my first reading. It does feel like Proust rather than the narrator doesn't it.

I'm guessing that the tomato on the LHS is the one that was 'not averse to complying with the tastes of certain gentlemen' and that the tomato on the RHS is the one that gave M. Bernard a black eye. :-) It's enough to put anyone off tomatoes...

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Late to the party, but after reading everyone's comments, I have to add that my favorite part in this week's reading was his description of drinking to get his gumption up.

"...I drank, one after ..."

Ha!Ha! Yes, that's a great part. The narrator seems quite capable of downing the booze when he needs to.

And I often wonder, do they really just drink orangeade at their soirees?

There's certainly a lot of info in this week's reading. I think I'll continue my method of re-reading the previous week's reading (or part of it) before continuing to the next week's - I usually find more detail emerges when I do that and I can skip any bits where I don't feel the need to re-read.

I really feel that the novel has come alive with this volume; hopefully that continues with the next ones. :-)

Renato wrote: "Also, while on this subject, apparently there were talks about Charlus and Jupien's relations?

“And even our old Françoise, whose sight was failing and who went past at that moment at the foot of the staircase to dine with the courriers, raised her head..."

I must admit this was a little confusing as well. In the bit before this the narrator is discussing Charlus walking through the hotel lobby with a rather foppish footman of a cousin of the Cambremers; to the guests he appears like a gentleman but the servants all recognise a fellow servant. I thought that Françoise's disapproval was over the fact that the footman was parading about as a gentleman rather than him being homosexual. But then the mention of Julien/Jupien threw me. Did you take Françoise's disapproval to be her recognising that they were homosexuals?

Thanks re the Verdurin v Charlus episode. Charlus's response makes more sense now. But do you think Mme Verdurin was being deliberately confrontational or just didn't realise that she was saying something that Charlus would find offensive? It's just difficult to think that her suggestion that Charlus should find a 'penniless old nobleman' to work as her porter as anything but offensive...but why does she want to offend Charlus? After all, she wants him to attend, as well as Morel, and she'd probably like him to bring along more aristocrats.

I wonder though, is it significant that just after this she discovers that Charlus is the Duc de Guermantes's brother? Maybe she just didn't realise who Charlus is?

Proust really likes to tease us with information...which is kind of fun. In this week's reading he says that the chauffeur knew Morel & Charlus and that if he'd known this at the time it would've prevented a lot of problems! I'm intrigued!

There's a revealing example of the narrator's self-analysis when he's riding in the car on his way to pick up Albertine. He says:

...it was my fate to pursue only phantoms, creatures whose reality existed to great extent in my imagination;

He then compares himself to Swann, that 'connoisseur of phantoms'.

After this week's reading I read a web article on ISOLT that gave away a big spoiler regarding Albertine...Doh! Oh, well...

Charlus's letter to Aimé is bizarre but I thought the best bit was Proust's introduction to it where he says it's 'an example of unilateral insanity in an intelligent man addressing a sensible idiot.' Though I think it's a bit mean called Aimé a sensible idiot.

Chapter 3 starts off well doesn't it? We get to hear about the charming antics of the squinting page's sister:

She never leaves a hotel without relieving herself in a wardrobe or a drawer, just to leave a keepsake with the chambermaid who'll have to clean up.

Please M. Proust, can we have more of the squinting page's family?...please!!

The first skirmish between Charlus & Mme Verdurin:

"By the way, Charlus," said Mme Verdurin, who was beginning to grow familiar, "you don't know of any penniless old nobleman in your Faubourg who would come to me as a porter?" "Why yes...why, yes," replied M. de Charlus with a genial smile, "but I don't advise it." "Why not?" "I should be afraid for your sake that the more elegant visitors would go no further than the lodge."

I'm a bit unsure what's going on here. First of all, is Mme Verdurin deliberately trying to wind up Charlus? It seems odd that she would as she's trying to attract the aristocracy to her salon. And I don't really understand Charlus's putdown. Why would they go no further than the lodge? What is he implying? Or is he just saying that they wouldn't turn up?

I'm either missing something or trying to read too much into it.

Dave wrote: "One other note Jonathan. You mentioned "leisured" classes Jonathan, keep in mind that one of the "layers" in the book is the transition of "power" in society from hereditary aristocracy to a capita..."

Yes, it's all rather more nuanced than it appears at first. I tried to be deliberately vague with 'leisured classes' by grouping all those classes together where they show no sign of 'working' in any way. Even Swann, if my memory serves me correctly, was living off of an inheritance so I sort of lumped him in with them as well.

I do wonder just how much of the 'class' thing is lost on me. Being British I can pick up on quite subtle British class distinctions easily but wonder how much of the French situation I'm missing. There must also have been a distinction between the 'old' aristocracy and those that were 'honoured' under Napoleon.

Renato wrote: "Jonathan, I was wondering the same: why do these people go to these parties? And especially when it comes to Saniette. M. Verdurin is so rude to him all the time but still he values so much being t..."

I know Renato, I feel sorry for Saniette, but then I think 'well, he doesn't have to go to these bloody parties and be abused' - I know I wouldn't. Even with the high-class ones like the Guermantes I still can't see what they really get out of it all. I guess it's just a luxury that the 'leisured classes' could indulge in. Like Charlus, they have little else to do but f**k and go to dinner parties. :-)

...M. de Charlus led me into a corner to have a word with me, not without feeling my muscles, which is a German habit.

er...what? Are there any Germans here to verify this? I wonder though, does he just mean that thing where someone clasps your arm quite firmly when they're leading you somewhere? It's usually quite scary no matter who does it.

Dave wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I keep trying to imagine exactly what Charlus looked and sounded like when he says those words, especially as the narrator says that from those words one can conclude that 'he like..."

Oh I hope we get a clash between Charlus and Mme Verdurin...it's kind of hinted in the text that something happens in Paris...Proust loves giving little details of what's coming up.

Dave wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "And marriage to Albertine was brought up as well. Will they or won't they? His mother doesn't exactly sound enthusiastic about it."

Did you read to the end of S&G?"

No, I only read to the end of Chapter Two which encroaches into next week's reading. I've looked at the last sentence of S&G though! It still doesn't mean that he will. We know how he loses interest quite quickly. :-)

Dave wrote: "Yes Jonathan, that's him. I bought his complete memoirs for a few dollars on Amazon in the ebook version. "

I recently read The Sun King by Nancy Mitford which was a good gossipy account of Louis XIV's court.