Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Jonathan wrote: " I felt that this character was going to have a huge part in the rest of the novel...oh well!" Your right, Proust keeps you guessing right up to the end how characters will develop. Reminds me of High School Yearbooks in the U. S. where people are voted "Most likely to Succeed" "Most likely to get married" etc.

An interesting experience for me in rereading is that sections I dreaded were much shorter - I thought the snuffling around the hawthorns was going to last for twenty pages and it was much shorter than I remembered. Unfortunately, so are favorite parts.

Renato wrote: "That's true, it makes total sense!! It must be amusing to re-read it and connect all these details! How fun!" It is fun Renato - and I'm planning to hold Proust's feet to the fire when I come to one of those "we will get back to this later in the book" comments.

Jonathan wrote: "Dave: On a slightly different point - do we get to find out who the 'handsome young woman' on the beach is that is attracted by Albertine? She's the one that the narrator notices has eyes that 'sca..."

I don't remember Jonathan. The Narrator suspects about every female character before its over. There are a number of implied relationships that are never resolved - some quite significant.

Jonathan wrote: "I guess it's an environment free of attractive young men and women. " Not without its dangers to young lover's though, Mme. Verdurin pushed Swann out the clan in SW to accommodate Odette and another gentleman.

Regarding your remark Renato, I assume Swann knew of Charlus' proclivities since he asked Charlus to keep an eye on Odette when he had to go somewhere and she was going to her dressmakers. He has complete faith in Charlus. Ironically the direction to the dressmakers sound like it was Jupien!

Later, when Swann gets the anonymous letter about Odette and "men and women" he suspects Mme Verdurin and Odette of being an item!

Renato wrote: "Trying to remember more details from Swann In Love, I seem to remember that the narrator mentioned that he's heard Swann's story from someone else - but never mentioned who... will he?"

There is no transition and no explanation Renato. Swann in Love starts off with a paragraph explaining what it takes to be in Verdurin's group. This seems to be the case between most sections and between Volumes. The continuity between Volumes III and IV and between V and VI are exceptions.

Jonathan wrote: " getting used to Proust's attempts to direct us towards believing certain things about a character only to derail us later on"

Good observation. Referring to an earlier comment about why the clan comes to the Verdurin's that is a mystery to me. She talks smack about her group in front of them and behind their back. I assume the Narrator and Charlus put up with her to be with Albertine and Morel. Why the others stay is unknown.

She is not referred to by name until Swann in Love section (before narrator is born) he meets her at his Uncle's house in Paris and she speaks to him by but his Uncle does not introduce him to her. His father is very upset at the Uncle for having exposed the narrator to her. At some point later (perhaps looking at her portrait) the Narrator realizes who she is and I believe that is the reader's first opportunity to know also. One of the complexities of the book is there are so many flashbacks and flashforwards the are very easily overlooked.

There is a complimentary time lapse at the end. How Swann comes to marry Odette I don't believe is ever disclosed.

Renato wrote: "I remember correctly, by the end of Vol. 1 it was said that Swann was no longer in love with Odette, and completely over her but, in the beginning of Vol. 2," You may have forgotten Renato that Swann was married to Odette at the beginning of Swann's Way. Swann's presence at dinner at Aunt Leonie is the reason mother cannot get away to kiss him goodnight. But the narrator's family is scandalized that Swann has married "that woman" Odettte, "the Lady in Pink" is also the reason the narrator's Uncle Adolphe breaks off conntact with the Narrator's family. The Section "Swann in Love" (which lasts two or more year) Swann's Way is a flashback that takes place five or more years before the Narrator is born. I assume the Narrator is 11 or 12 at the beginning and a gap of two or more years between Volumes I and II you have a gap of 20 years between end of Swann in Love and beginning of Volume II.

I did find a historical inaccuracy in Brichot's pomposity in the first Verdurin Wednesday in Swann's Way. He started lecturing on Blanche of Castile and made reference to her mother "sleeping with Henry Plantagenet for years before they were married." My sheer chance I know that bit of history and he is referring to Blanche's grandmother, Eleanor of Aquitaine. I don't know the accuracy of his gossip (Eleanor was Queen of France before the King annulled marriage). Brichot seemes to have a bad opinion of Blanche who became Queen of France but I didnt pursue that. Nobody in the group was interested and they cut him off.

Jonathan wrote: "but are we to assume that he is correct in his etymologies of place names? " I've wondered the same thing. I came to the conclusion that even if they were correct, the place names themselves are fictional so t didn't matter. The concern for etymologies of places and genealogies of aristocrats makes the same point. Proust puts a lot of emphasis on how can we really know someone, someplace, something. I think he is pointing out that such curiosities are of no help in knowing substance.

Renato wrote "how far or for how long this influence will go on. I wonder if he'll be 'forgotten' as he is aproaching his own death." Are you referring to the Narrator's death?

I believe the cast of characters reflects society as Proust knew it. He satirizes everyone. While reading I developed some ideas about social commentary but on reflection believe those ideas were misguided. Some characters apparently satirize Proust's prejudice against whole professions - Brichot (Academic), Cottard (Medicine, odd since Proust's father and brother were Drs.), Norpois (Diplomat). Others include 1) aristocrats 2) servants 3) jews 4) gay/lesbian 5) artists 6) "middle class" 7) Narrator's family. Obviously some fit more than one category. All these reflect a mix which Proust portrays as reflecting french society 1890-1920. Change over time among characters rather than relative goodness is more what the focus is I believe.

Jonathan wrote: "Whilst the narrator is at Morel's, trying to entice him to go back to see Charlus, he is being nosey and looks at some of the books that Charlus has given to Morel and the inscriptions inside. If, ..."

Very interesting and very telling. I wonder if Morel understood them? Thanks Jonathan!

Jonathan wrote: "Hi Dave. Well I started off reading the MKE version (Vintage inUK but it's the same as the ModLib in US) but then I got curious and started looking at the Penguin version of vol 2. Perversely what ..."

Thanks for the detailed reply Jonathan. I've only downloaded the electronic sample of the first four volumes. I do enjoy the introductions. I do wonder at having a different person translate each volume. I already own the MKE in electronic form but I'll probably buy the penguin volumes eventually. In rereading Swann's Way I'm not using the Audiobook much because I reread sections and sentences frequently.

Jonathan, you mentioned at some point you were reading the Penguin translation but switched. Why did you switch? I was looking at the first four volumes of the American Edition of those translations. Each has a very good Introduction which, from a translator's perspectives mention all sorts of small inconsistencies etc. in the text. Unfortunately, the last three volumes don't seem to have been published in the US yet. I looked on Amazon UK site but the Volumes aren't available in electronic form soI can't tell whether the last three have similar Introductions.

Renato wrote: "It does! Although Dave pointed out that it wasn't Proust directly inserting himself on the novel in any way, that it's only the narrator, it feels similar to the situation Proust was in."

As I continue to read outside sources I came across an interesting observation that seems relevant to these moments. In his writing Proust is actively seeking to convey uncertainty - uncertainty in the narrator on things like the true nature of other characters and events, and uncertainty on the part of readers about a great deal; when events occur, what is "true" and "untrue" in dialogue and narration for instance. These are not mysteries to be solved but a philisophical perspective to be understood. In his journals at the beginning of writing ISOLT he couldn't decide whether to write a philisophical treatise or a novel - he ended up writing both. In a letter to someone years later he wrote "the novel form most closely resembles what I have written."

Sunny wrote: "Now that I've gone back to see where that mention was, I wonder if it was exactly that comment that brought to my mind the comparison." Keen observation Sunny!

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Late to the party, but after reading everyone's comments, I have to add that my favorite part in this week's reading was his description of drinking to get his gumption up.

"...I drank, one after ..."
lol, I had forgotten that! Our narrator is such a stud wannabie! He misses the goal with every kick!