Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Yes,, beauty is in the eye (or more accurately the mind) of the beholder, and we behold the other characters in ISOLT through the narrator's "eyes". I enjoy looking at the paintings but I never fix in my mind a book character from a visual source. I'm becoming more OCD about that in my old age. The biggest challenge in that regard for me is to try and imagine the Narrator as someone other than the classic Proust portrait with the big round eyes. Michelangelo screwed up God for me, He'll always be an old man with a long white beard in a nightshirt flying across the ceiling.

Yeah, the Narrator is a "legend in his own shorts" (as we say here in Texas)

Renato wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "It's surely odd for a novelist to draw attention to the real-life influences of a character in their book; maybe more common these days but it must have seemed strange then. Would ..."

My best advise Renato is try not to get tripped up on "who is speaking" etc. Renato. I wasted a lot of time trying to overthink. Looking back, I just don't think anyone reading the novel the first time can possibly "get it right"- and I think that is Proust's intent. Once you finish, you can start sorting it out. Again, rereading gives the discipline and structure in my mind to sort it out. I'm finding passages that I just blew by without a thought first time which, come to find out, have great significance later in the novel.

Renato wrote: "Also, I've commented before on who was the captive here... I guess both are:


"I was more of a master than I had supposed. More of a master, in other words more of a slave."

One is the other's ..."

Excellent quote, and quite profound. I have a comment on this topic at the last week of the volume.

Renato wrote: "One of the highlights this week for me was how he went from playing music and singing - is that a first? I didn't know he could play the piano... - to talking about music, then artists, and then Mo..."

I take it your speaking of Charlus? As I said, he is genuinely talented and has a sophisticated taste for art, music etc. As opposed to the members of the little group, who are poseurs.

Renato wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Marcel is certainly a bit weird:

But if Albertine could have looked less young, not so pretty, less able to turn heads in the street, that is what would have pleased me."

This re..."

He he, looks are in the eye of the beholder, she's plain in the narrator's opinion later.

Renato wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "We don't really know anything about Morel at this stage but this makes him out to be a bit of a psycho! Feared throughout the land!

He goes on to say that Morel is mad as well. Ar..."

Interesting how Proust leads readers around by the nose in there perceptions of characters over time. An aspect of one of his major themes and quite realistic, my opinion changes over of others.

Renato wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "This picture of a woman (Miss Muriel Gore) in a Fortuny dress by Oswald Hornby Joseph Birley is pretty much how I imagined Albertine to look:"

I'm used to imagining her like this:..."

I like Jonathan's painting better Renato, better suits my imagination based on what's to come.

Charlus is very talented, of course folks tease him behind his back - for his sexuality but also out of jealousy I suspect.

Jonathan wrote: "Brichot mentions that the Verdurin's former house was partially burnt down; is that the first time that's been mentioned? I wonder what happened? It's probably not relevant, but you never know with..."

I missed that. Not mentioned elsewhere that I know of. Could be seen as symbolic I guess.

Jonathan wrote: "When the narrator gets talking about Swann's death we get this little bit where we're surely hearing Proust speaking rather than the narrator:And yet, my dear Charles Swann, whom I used to know whe..."

It is just so hard to keep my mouth shut on these "who is "speaking" comments. I stand by what I said before. I couldn't begin to try and explain it without spoiling the "first read" experience and terribly confusing those still reading. As for real life persons, cameo roles are not uncommon in novels and I don't think the Code Napoleon treats libel and slander as laws based on English Common Law. Historical event occasionally occur also which is how I came up with my little chronology - only to find out later it was "beside the point".

Jonathan wrote: "This picture of a woman (Miss Muriel Gore) in a Fortuny dress by Oswald Hornby Joseph Birley is pretty much how I imagined Albertine to look:

"

I really like that painting Jonathan, Albertine is not beautiful. She is described elsewhere as plain. I think that painting captures "plain" nicely.

When the vendors are hollering outside it reminded me of being at my in-laws house in Mexico. I really like that!

He, he shaking the Hawthorn bushes seems to have been theraputic! I'm enjoying the camraderie. Whatever the topic, if its Proust related it is of interest. Thanks again for your help in getting in Marcelita. David

Ha! The Ripper analogy came to me too! I set it aside in though. It is passages like this one that continued to ratchet up my opinion that the narrator was unreliable in that his opinions on love are based on values unlike my own and which I find distasteful and socially disreputable. Normally, I've found that art best which communicates universal human values across time and space, but that is not the case on this specific point. From this point forward I disregarded what the Narrator thought about love. But Proust has something else in mind which will eventually come to light.

You seem to be leading a sheltered life by Narrator standards Jonathan, it gets creepier in the next volume. I would be interested in reading the whole sentence if you have time. I'm interested in where this thought is going since I can't remember the context.

In retrospect this issue is the "trial by fire" for first time readers - no pain, on gain. Based on my own experience, it is in your best interest of getting the most out of this reading to say no more than "this too shall pass.

I agree with you both on this.

Ah, this is "Masa" a native American word. It is used in Mexico to be stuff with various meats and cheeses etc and boiled in the husks to make Tamales, which you can look up online if you are unfamiliar.

Perhaps a corn cake is a Mexican tortilla, which in the U.S. is called a tortella. Ah, your recollections of childhood bring back my own, the ice cream truck with its distinctive bell - diving for my dime on the kitchen table, exploding out the front door in my bare feet and racing down the scorching street to catch up before he turned the corner and panting as I place my invariable order, "one fudgecical please." We all have our madeleine moments.

Renato, glad to see you are enjoying yourself! You cite a lot of great quotes. Something that has occurred to me since reading The Captive is I might have gone back and reviewed Swann's opinions on jealousy he expressed to the narrator at the Prince de Guermantes reception early in Volume IV. It would be interesting whether Swann's opinions held true or contradicted the Narrator's experience. At this point I'll make note of Swann's opinions the second time around.

Do you have edible things outside your house (were they in his house?)? I would have to subsist on ferrel cats and the occasional squirrel.