Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Renato wrote: "Formerly, when the wind howled in my chimney, I would listen to the blows which it struck on the iron trap with as keen an emotion as if, like the famous bow-taps with which the C Minor Symphony op..."

I too was surpised Renato that half a page after grandmother was declared dead we start a new section. A little more info is provided about her funeral before the volume ends, but his emphasis on memory leaves me wondering if her death and funeral will be explored more fully later through "flashback."

I finished Guermantes Way last night. Amazingly, Proust managed to turn the last 60 pages or so of this volume into a "barn-burner" for me. I just couldn't turn the pages fast enough to see what would happen next. Then I ran right off the end of the last page with a cry of NOoooooooo! It can't be over! But I am comforted by the fact that we have what, something like 2,000 pages to go.

-As I indicated, for me this volume had the strongest finish of the first three. I found the ending of the first two volumes muted and reflective and was not expecting the dramatic tensions (comedic intermixed with dramatic) that Proust achieved in the last two big scenes in the volume - The Narrator's call on Charlus, and the Narrator's call on the Duc and Duchesses.

- Sunny made an insightful remark about Proust's ability to elicit from the reader the correct empathetic response to the events in the novel. If we mentally groan, shuffle our feet and repeatedly look at our watch in despair as time creeps across a 100 page salon soiree or dinner party episode in the book, I see that as as Proust "making us suffer" along with the narrator, just as readers have suffered along with characters in countless tragic and cruel situations throughout the history of literature and story telling. What's more, Proust's social scenes and the agony of getting through them is something I easily relate to. I've suffered through many tedious social situations (none involving aristocrats - but family can be tedious too), but I've never been dying a painful death on the plains of East Africa or in a foxhole, I've never been on a doomed ship sinking in icy waters of the North Atlantic, or trapped on an Island full of dinosaurs. All this reminds me that what Proust has to say has at least the potential to inform my own life-experience in an insightful way if I remain watchful and alert.

- Spoiler alert, read what follows after finishing this volume.

- Getting back to eliciting an empathetic response, I was astonished (along with the narrator) at how the call on Charlus unfolds. Charlus sarcasm, contempt, fury, screaming, cajoling, cooing, crying - all contrived. And the Narrator's response, finally the narrator actually gets mad! Get enraged! And, seeking an object to expend his fury he attacks Charlus Top Hat! In the midst of drama, comedy. The attack on the hat seems the climax of this scene - made me wish I had an Illustrated "In Search of Lost Time" with a drawing of the hat attack.

- But it was the final scene of the volume that made the biggest impression on me. The narrator, the Duc and Duchess of Guermantes, Swann and several footmen. So much going on simultaneously. Among the the Duc scheming to keep from receiving word a relative has died so his social plans are not frustrated, the Duchess in a huff because a woman has called that morning and miserably violated calling card etiquette. The Duc and Duchess arguing fiercely over who they are related to and why. And in the midst of all the pomposity and vanity stands the dying Swann (a reference to Swan Lake perhaps) transformed from his previous persona in earlier volumes and speaking truth brutally when asked an opinion. As usual, the narrator says little, but serves as the camera to record the scene. When Swann finally is forced to tell the Guermantes he is dying their reaction is classic. They simply refuse to accept reality - the Duchess returns upstairs to change shoes, calling after her to invite Swann to lunch. The Duc shoves Swann and the narrator out the door, calling after Swann that doctors are donkeys and that he will "outlive us all.

-Wow!

Ah, an unreliable narrator - thanks for the heads up Stephen, something to watch for!

Jonathan wrote: "Renato wrote: "I liked the bit where the narrator came back and saw his grandmother sitting there, before she noticed him, and felt he was watching his own absence:

Of myself - thanks to that priv..."

That phone call and the little mini-essay that went with it were a highlight for me. How the phone changes the nature of communication - how many times has new technology changed the nature of communications since Proust wrote those lines! What would he say of Instagram, Facebook, Smartphones, Facetime! And the hilarious likening of telephone operators with greek mythological figures! And finally the poignant foreshadowing of his Grandmother's death by the broken connection - the Eternal Separation!

Jonathan wrote: "I loved the little chat that Charlus has with the narrator; it's chaotic, abusive and random - and brilliant! I wonder if the narrator is intrigued by the plans that Charlus has for him? He can onl..."

I haven't heard of Withnail &I but I'm a movie buff and will look it up and watch it if I can find it.

Since you invited a movie comparison my mind immediately jumped to Honest John the Fox in Pinocchio.

Jonathan wrote: "Dave wrote: "At the same time I think we must be cautious about judging how Proust writes about homosexuality. This was a very different time with very different values. Proust himself was gay (or ..."

Yes, I agree Jonathan, it is essential to keep the narrator separate from the author. Since the narrator and his family went to Mass in Combray in Swann's Way, I assume the narrator is Catholic. I've seen no evidence of the narrator being portrayed as gay (nor ever read anything about the book that made such a claim). At the same time these first volumes are littered with examples of the narrator's frustrated relationships with women - usually starting with adulation and ending with frustrated disillusionment. This seems something other than emotionally healthy. Based on the title of the 5th and 6th, The Captive and The Fugitive, this makes me sense more strangeness in future relationships.

We are in the midst of what I believe is the greatest novel ever written. But novels are about flawed people involved in plots driven by conflict. I suspect that by the time I get to the end I am going to find that the Time Regained is bittersweet rather than Utopian.

Renato wrote: "Dave wrote: "Ah, Alain de Botton, love his book on Proust and have read several of his books."

So that book is good indeed? I bought a Kindle version when I started reading ISOLT, went through it ..."

I really enjoy his books Renato. He is a practicing philosopher - educated as a philosopher but writing books on how get more out of life. His book on Proust is about showing how to experience life more fully by taking what Proust writes about to heart.

Renato wrote: "Ok, so I wasn't reading too much into it! And yes, I also imagined that Charlus was cruising for sex while looking for "just the right cabman", but since sometimes I think I'm too malicious and see..."

I doubt if you can be too malicious, most of the next volume is going to be about "decadent" gay sub-culture. There are increasing signals in the text that many of the male characters, young and old, are participating in this sub-culture - and always looking for new recruits.

At the same time I think we must be cautious about judging how Proust writes about homosexuality. This was a very different time with very different values. Proust himself was gay (or perhaps bi-sexual) as well as being Jewish. He writes disparingly of both. I believe he is highlighting the prejudice against the Jews and the acceptance by society of closeted gay subculture as symptoms of how "sick" the society of which he wrote really was.

Renato wrote: "Speaking of the conversation that the narrator had with de Charlus: why was he so interested on the narrator? Where is all that coming from? I'm curious to find out what his intentions are... I got..."

His intentions are predatory Renato. Did everyone pick up on the fact that as Charlus lead our hero arm-in-arm along the streets of Paris looking for "just the right cab" that in fact he was cruising for "just the right cabman" with which to have "rent-boy" sex? Ultimately, he finds "just the right cab", cabman half-drunk and driving from inside the cab. Charlus bids our hero adeiu, puts up the hood of the cab, takes the reins from the cabman and drives off into the darkness. Our hero remains clueless, but won't remain so much longer.

Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "...do you teach literature?"

No, however, I did teach history for several years. Actually, while I was reading history in my twenties, I came across "Marcel Proust" for the first tim..."

Ah, Alain de Botton, love his book on Proust and have read several of his books.

As for opening lines, I have modeled my life on "For a longtime I used to go to bed early..." Even though I didn't get past the first page of Proust for 40 years, those were words to live by!

Jonathan wrote: "At last we get confirmation of the 'lady in pink'; though I think we'd all realised who it was.

Is it just me or does Charles Morel come across as a bit creepy, or even sinister?"

Guilty on both counts from my perspective Jonathan. But also stupid, Marcel sizes him up nicely as "In vain did he seek to divest himself of his lowly origin." (interesting use of "divest") I'm sure we will see Morel again making mischief or getting in over his head.

But to me the high point of Morel's appearrance is to provide Proust yet another wonderful opportunity to comment obliquely on the workings of the human heart. Noticing Morel's interest in Jupien's niece, Proust notes that "Charles Morel seemed to have, besides ambition, a strong leaning toward more concrete realities."

By God, if I were 40 years younger, I'd try that as a pick up line in a singles bar! lol

Wow Marcelita, that is hard-core Proustian background research! In thinking of your question I had idylly thought of Saint-Saens, Frank, and also D'Indy. Faure slipped my mind. Didn't try to match specific pieces but just went with a vague instinct it would have been a French composer. D'Indy might have been too late to be a contender.

You said you have been reading Proust since 2004, do you teach literature?

Be brave folks, be very, very brave! According to my ebook 21% (70%-91%) of this volume is about the Guermantes dinner party which our hero attends. Having finished this part, I feel a sense of satisfaction not unlike what it must be like having swam the English channel. But be of good cheer, there is some fun here! Spoiler alert, I want to give you hope, but don't read if you want keep the "page-turning suspense" of your Proustian adventure.

- Our hero gets to see the Elistirs he has been scheming to see. In fact he is left alone with them "out of respect". He spends so much time he keeps everyone waiting for 45 minutes for dinner.

- In a scene out of the Marx Brother, as the Duc introduces our hero to the cream of Parisian Society, no one has a clue who he is but by their unalterable faith in the Duchesses infallible taste, they are convinced he is very important/interesting and so must be cultivated.

- And then the Duchesses has our hero escort her into dinner - and the endless self-licking ice-cream-cone of trivial blather begins. The names aren't important, the titles aren't important - rather they are only important self-important to the aristocrats in a society that has been a Republic for 50 years. It takes longer to read this than it would to eat a formal dinner.

- And so the dinner winds down, the rising of the Princess de Paume from the table acts as "a deliverance", and everyone heads for the door.

- As our hero rides away in his carriage he thinks to himself "surely these people don't get all dressed up and go to these dinner parties to talk of such trivialities- that would just be too absurd!"

I see one of Proust's messages here as an answer to the question above - Why yes they did, and still do today. That's what make Proust so wonderful for me - He so wonderfully captures the Human Comedy.

- Meanwhile, our hero is headed over to see Baron de Charlus - run away Marcel, run away!

Well Marcelita, I've listened to a lot of classical music in my life and had a lot of "little phrase" moments in my life, but my musical skills aren't up to composing soundtracks to books I am reading. I made do with figuing it was from a French romantic period piano sonata. Any suggestions?

But your question did cause me to speculate on the ultimate Proustian moment - the "little band" at Balbec playing the "little phrase" while I eat little lemon scented cakes! Oh the memories that would flood back!

Thanks for the list of Audio Versions. I'd forgotten Simon Vance. I listened to the Dragon Tatoo Trilogy with him. Also didn't realize there was a Spanish Audio. I've got a niece in Mexico that wants to go to Paris for her 15th birthday. I keep teasing her that she can't go until she has read Proust. Now the Spanish Audio Version will strengthen my hand!

Marcelita, good point about the distinction of class levels that Neville makes. I was just being churlish at having to change narrators in mid-novel.

Jonathan. Your point is also well made about the filters we have to deal with as we read. To wax philosophical, ultimately our own minds are perhaps the most significant filter. We perceive and judge what we read from a perspective of unique experiences, prejudices, and sympathies.

When I read a book, I often find myself "casting" the movie version. The cast all have voices that I recall in my mind. I find this distracting. The voices of the narrator of an audiobook are "unknown" (I tend to avoid books narrated by well known persons) and so I find them a more neutral "filter" than the "voicetrack" my imagination keeps wanting to add.

I read and listen simultaneously without interruption and without multi-tasking. Its slower going than my natural reading speed. But as I indicated in an earlier post, this method is giving me access to books I never thought I could read - let alone understand. Using this technique I recently finished three of Faulkner's most challenging novels; As I Lay Dying, Absalom Absalom, and Sound and the Fury - not only finished them, but was able to say to myself, " I get this!"

Thanks, Found I could search on the phrases referenced. Found where the group is and where I am in the schedule (week 6/14).

Thanks Renato, my ebook doesn't have real page numbers. I had to do a word search of the artist names to find where the discussion was at. I see the discussion is about aristocrats and drawing rooms but that doesn't narrow it down much in these books. Has Marcel gone to visit Saint Loup at Doncieres yet?

Yes Marcelita, I'm listenng to Neville Jason unabridged. Took some getting used to Neville. I had listened to John Rowe for the first two volumes and really enjoyed his narration. But Rowe not available on later volumes. My main objection to Jason is he makes the servants sound like downstairs Dowton Abby to me. Francoise sounds like Mrs Patmore. But I've settled into Jason now. I've gone over to the dark side and read everything on my Kindle App. I read several boks simultaneously and like to have them all with me. And I like abilty to highlight and look up words in embedded dictionary.

Wow, folks talking about Proust! I found this through Twitter. Proust has been on my bucket list all my life! I'm somewhat ahead, near the end of Guermantes Way, but I'll roll with the punches. I'm reading the C.K. Scott Moncrieff translation because that matches to Audiobook I'm listening to.. I discovered not long ago that listening while reading makes all sorts of books accessible I could never get through. Look forward to the comments. The posted artworks referenced are a nice touch. What surprises me most about these books is how hilarious they can be at times.