Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Renato wrote: "Yes, it'd be great to discuss everything openly! I'm against spoilers... I don't mind a revelation here and there, of course, and I really like you pointing us to the right direction. But I'd like ..."

I really don't know about the Swann in Love section Renato. I have seen nothing about this in outside reading. Obviously Proust wrote everything, but he hides behind "layers" as Marcelita calls them. Swann in Love and the short appendices in Volume 2 are written in the third person. The reader knows thoughts and motivations. This could not have been achieved through research or interview. Swann and Odette's story begins years before the Narrator's birth and by the time Swann shows up for dinner at Combray has been ongoing for 15 or more years. Proust seems to have a different solution we can discuss after.

I have to say I am beginning to be excited at the prospect of you folks finishing the book so we can can consider all aspects of the novel without consideration of spoilers. At the same time, it occurs to me that the non- disclosure of spoilers may be more important to me than to you at this point. Based on my own experience, I'm really hoping you will experience the exhilaration that I felt when it all came together for me at some point after I finished reading. And I'm convinced such an experience depends on total surprise when Proust pulls the rabbit out of the hat after finishing.

Thank you for the follow up Marcelita, you are such a blessing the the Proust Community.

I did enjoy the Gallo presentation, thank you. As for Beckett, I came across it later and made the connection the it was being referred to.

Several other of those presentations look interesting - The Cemetery and the Book for instance.

I am interested in the Rennaisance, I'm currently watching the lectures in the Great Courses History of Art in Western Civilization. The professor spends quite a few lectures in the rennaissance.

Have you read "Proust's Narrative Techniques" Marcelita? I'm really looking forward to receiving my copy. But it was only shipped from Australia a day or so ago so it will take three weeks or more to get to me.

I realize, like the Narrator, I keep offering additional comment in the future. I'm not keeping track of these offers. If there is interest in following up comments I guess we will have to screen the comments week by week since mid-July.

Jonathan wrote: "At the beginning of this section the narrator addresses the reader:My words, therefore, did not in the least reflect my feelings. If the reader has no more than a faint impression of these, that is..."

Oh man! I get it! I get it! Unfortunately explaining would be a major spoiler. There are many passages like this that make no sense until you have finished and have a "second read" perspective, regardless of whether you read the whole book again.

As I've mentioned before, based on my own experience, don't expect to "get" the book when you finish TR. Its more complicated. I flailed around for several weeks trying to get a handle on understanding. I hope to make that process less painful for you folks by suggesting what to look at and consider.

As a historical curiosity, the Narrator dangles an offer to buy Albertine a Rolls Royce or a yacht. I calculated the volume takes place in the Winter/Spring 1909. Rolls Royce was founded in March 1909.

As I think about the Swann/Odette vs Narrator/Albertine comparison further it strikes me that our relatively complete understanding of Odette and her motives may be the most fruitful way to understand Albertine. The lives of Swann and the Narrator are in many aspects opposites (this will become clearer as you read further) - primarily in ways centering on this main relationship in their lives and how it affects their lives. It seems reasonable to consider Albertine as opposite of Odette in similar ways. Odette is a Courtesan and unabashed social climber. Albertine is vivacious and a "free spirit". She is indifferent to the trappings of wealth and society. She participates to accompany the narrator. This also will be developed in the next volume. Thinking along these lines, I discount the possibility of her scheming to marry the Narrator.

Jonathan wrote: "I think that we've glimpsed more from Albertine's POV in this section, where the narrator has returned from the Verdurins, than we have in the rest of the novel. Sometimes I can't help but feel tha..."

Interesting that you make that observation, particularly your observation of the possibility of marriage. The comparison/contrast between their relationship and Swann/Odette is a major key to understanding the story. Although Swann is dead, this comparison continues to be brought to the reader's attention through the end of the novel and beyond. Through the third person narrative of the "Swann in Love" section and the five page continuation of that section in the middle of the Norpois dinner in Volume 2, the reader knows more about Swann and Odette than any other character except the Narrator. Relevant to your comment, we know that Odette schemed for perhaps two years to get Swann to marry her, which he eventually does for reasons that have nothing to do with love.

No, it was two or three months later. I highlighted indication of changes in time, date and location. There are phrases in the last pages like "one day..." that indicate the passage of time. Among other things they visit Versailles together on a "spring day". I mark the end of day three after the argument when he follows her to her bedroom and kisses her goodnight. Interesting now that I think of it, this is a mirror of the closing long day that traversed the end of GW and the first 25% of S&G. There he waited in bed after midnight for her to come kiss him goodnight. Here he comes to her after midnight of a long day to kiss her goodnight. That marked the middle of the novel, this perhaps marks the 3/4 point. Emotionally, it marks a major shift in their relationship. My memory is that 10 or 11% of the volume occurs after that. Sorry I can't provide page numbers.

Jonathan wrote: "Dave wrote: "I enjoyed discovering the structure of the volume, the one long day in the middle with a single social event in the middle of that day. The previous volumes had two social events (at l..."

It is curious that they put her disappearance where they do. By my calculation day three lasted 60% of the volume with significant events before and after the Verdurin's. I figured that was in February and she left in April or May (Spring). Anyway, the details don't matter. I have read nothing to indicate the significance of these structure (but I have ordered a hard to find book (used) from Australia "Proust's Narrative Techniques". It may provide a clue.

As for GW, I've mentioned before, I really didn't "settle in" to reading the book until the last scene of GW so didn't start looking at things like structure until S&G. I'm pretty sure the other volumes have a structure and almost certainly the entire book has a megastructure. I just haven't gotten around to thinking about that. I have learned that SW has a fascinating structure that was totally lost on me. But we need to wait until we have all finished the read to discuss that.

Jonathan wrote: "At the beginning of this section the narrator addresses the reader:My words, therefore, did not in the least reflect my feelings. If the reader has no more than a faint impression of these, that is..."

I'm not at my best today. Read the passage you quote three times and got lost in the middle. I agree - slippery. Perhaps it will make more sense when I'm more alert.

That's what I mean but your second statement also shows the perils of thinking too much about this before you finish.

What did he want to be when he grew up?

Are we still thinking about what the narrator is not doing folks? I didn't know the answer either of course - I didn't even know the question!

But my reaction was to read longer (listening at the narration at the same speed but for longer periods of time) to get through it.

The first 75% of Volume 6 was a challenge for me. I just couldn't see the point of so much I read there.

I share your frustration Renato, she is like a big fluffy cloud, No matter what aspect you look at, if you get close, there is nothing there.

It was this aspect of this volume and the next that I found so frustrating.

Someone famous (perhaps Gide) said that Proust offered the most pessimistic view of human relationships of any author he knew.

Jonathan wrote: "Dave wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I thought Albertine's line about lying was interesting, and true - she lies out of love, whereas the narrator lies to gain control and sees Albertine's lying as disobe..."

I'm certainly with you there Jonathan. As you will see in my comments at the end of the volume, I am completely in Albertine's corner at this point. But later I realized it was because I knew all the dirty laundry in the Narrator's mind. I let myself be carried away by emotion, he was a fiend and she was a damsel in distress.

Renato wrote: "How old is the narrator supposed to be in this Volume?"

Gonna get mysterious again on you Renato, answering your question is a major spoiler.

Jonathan wrote: "I thought Albertine's line about lying was interesting, and true - she lies out of love, whereas the narrator lies to gain control and sees Albertine's lying as disobedience."

I'm more cynical Jonathan, how can we know what she says is true? We are (selectively) inside the Narrator's head, but we only have what somebody else says to go on with Albertine.