Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Jonathan wrote: "Thanks for you fascinating reply Dave. I guess that, at this stage (vol. 4), the best thing for me is to keep the option of an immediate re-read open.

I do find that going through each week's read..."

Well said Jonathan.

Jonathan wrote: "Hi Dave, I've just read your instructive Amazon review where your enthusiasm for ISOLT comes across brilliantly - hopefully it will encourage more people to read Proust, especially when they realis..."

Jonathan, thanks for the kudos on the Amazon review. Your concerns about an immediate reread are well stated and I relate to everyone of the them. Very few ever attempt ISOLT, of those, very few finish. To those in the midst of reading the first time, the idea seems insane. I'll get back to that in a bit. As I began to read last March I had doubts about my staying power. I was encouraged when I got through each volume in succession. It wasn't until half way The Fugitive when I felt "confident" I would finish! On completion I felt giddy, I had endured, I had crossed the Finish Line in The Proust Marathon. From that moment of completion to two days later is posted in Time Regained.

When I realized from the outside resources that I had missed the significance of the ending, went back and looked at Swann's Way, that is when I "got it."
Here is the bottom line in my own words: ISOLT contains TWO novels which use the same text. This is not a spoiler because there is no way for a reader to access (see) the second novel until they have within their own mind all the memories, emotions, and reactions of the first reading. We all must "suffer" in our own way through the first novel (like life) to appreciate the masterpiece of world literature that is the second novel and what it says about life!

We're not talking about "oh I missed that detail the first time" or "now we have foreknowledge of who murdered whom so we know where to look for clues". It is much more profound than that (which all experience is rereading or rewatching movies etc).

After 100 pages of Swann's Way, almost every sentence means something entirely different than the first reading. In the first reading I was watching the clock (one hour up yet so I can read something else?). Second reading is about will I be able to put this down and go to sleep.

Now, here's the catch. I believe the second reading is highly personal. The text has not changed, its the reader that has changed (true with any book or experience, but I believe Proust was counting on two readers). In the first reading we all more or less like and and dislike the same scenes and aspects of the novel. In the second reading, you draw not only on your memories of the first reading, each reader will draw on memories of their own life in a quest of self discovery that is the hallmark of truly great literature (and art). Is this guaranteed to happen? No, I don't believe it is, But I think it is worth the try.

Immediate reread or reread at a later date. The power of the experience in the first Hundred pages compels me to say now. The freshness of the memories and my memory of how I interacted with the text first time is what I believe powers the magnitude of experience I feel initally in the second read. How will both those factors change over time? Not sure I guess it will vary with each person. But the "power of now" (right after my first reading) is 2014 for me, if I choose to wait, what ever now might have revealed will be lost. I long ago reconciled that I couldn't read but a tiny fraction of what I might like. Right now, rereading Proust seems like the best investment of my reading time. If that prospect fades, I'll move on to something else. As Alain de Botton writes of ISOLT, in the end it is only a book.

What I don't understand is why this is such a secret. I have not read every Amazon review, but none that I've read even intimate at the reward of rereading. Marcelita knows this (Marcelita knows everything Proustian). Even if this were more widely talked about, most folks in the US don't read literature anyway.

I'll make a note to check that out. Right now patiently waiting for mama to come upstairs and kiss me before my nap ;)

Jonathan wrote: "It might be worth setting up a new discussion, e.g. 'Re-reading Proust' or similar. Group members can start new discussion threads but if you want I'll have a look at it when I'm at my PC - I'm on ..."

A phone? You have a phone? Will you post a little essay on how how the phone changes the nature of communication and how you interacted with the mysterious "ladies of the telephone?" lol - Thanks Jonathan, the new thread will be helpful.

Marcelita wrote: "Raw...just now.

All may not be true "involuntary" memories, but something which "triggered" a memory.

#SW-Overture: Tea and madeleine

WBG- Madame Swann at Home: Scent from WC in the park to Uncl..."

Were all those recalled in the library? I remember a sunset seen through the window I think at Balbec in the Library scene.

Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "The Library - I found the climax of the novel absolutely astonishing! Astonishing in scope and in execution. I was overwhelmed when I realized Proust's purpose was to capture the momen..."

Marcelita, is there any evidence that Proust planned to make it necessary to reread the book? I am astonished that I simply didn't even perceive what I call the "second" ISOLT was on the page during the first read.
- Like the Young Narrator I, the "young" reader tried, suffered, wasted time, but ultimately failed to understand on the first read.
- But now that I have suffered and failed, the "old" narrator reveals to the "old" reader, as I review my first read through rereading, the "masterpiece" that is the second "ISOLT" and all the insight it has for me in the way of self-knowledge.
- Manipulation of others is a motif from mama's first summons on.
- What you first perceive is not real is also a strong motif.
- Did Proust intend to manipulate readers in this way?

Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "The Library - I found the climax of the novel absolutely astonishing! Astonishing in scope and in execution. I was overwhelmed when I realized Proust's purpose was to capture the momen..."

Ooh, ooh! The Compagnon is really well done and a whole series. I'm going to love it!

Thanks Marcelita, I look forward to reading or viewing the linked material.

Renato wrote: "I'm not sure it's possible to do that, Dave. But it's ok since it's been just us for the past couple of weeks, haha!"

I'm going to start posting these type things in the "After We Regain Time" folder. I've got some ideas about a Reread Group for next year I will post there later. My guess is that those still "suffering" (a good and necessary thing in the long term) through the first read may have difficulty seeing the point. But when they finish, and others that previously finished, may be interested.

Renato wrote: "I'm sorry to be going off topic here, but I don't want to open the Time Regained topic before its time. :P

I too must apologize for leading this discussion off topic. If the moderators wish (and can) move everything from message 16-32 to the "After Lost Time" folder/thread please do!

Jonathan wrote: "I've just glanced through these comments but I notice you're already planning a re-read Dave. When will that be? Surely not straight away?"

On reflection Jonathan, perhaps it would be worth considering trying to form a "Rereading In Search of Lost Time" Group on Goodreads for next year. I'll post a comment on what such a group might discuss and hope to accomplish later in the "After Lost Time" folder (are they folders or threads?)

Renato, I'm reading The Montcrief edition again because it is what the Audiobook uses (yes I'm listening as well again). I posted the link to my Amazon review on this week above where I said I decided to reread. There are no spoilers in the review. There is nothing about plot or content. Just about the decision yo reread and why I now believe immediate reread is so important. Also talks about my decisions on translation, audio, etc. Just don't open the other books that I reference in the review.
I bought the "Paintings in Proust Book, it will be here on Friday.

Yes Jonathan, I've already started and am 10% through Swann's Way. I encourage you to look at the Amazon review (especially first part) to see how I came to the decision to reread and why I believe the rereading is most valuable if it is done immediately. Also, the posts exchange by me, Renato, and Marcelita on the S& G 7/19 week last night may be helpful.

Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "There are issues in the last three volumes, but in retrospect not as serious apparently to the story as I believed. The genius of the ending is an opinion of outside sources. Perhaps t..."

Thanks for answering our question Marcelita!

Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "Hey folks, update.
-...Browsing around my eye caught something that, when I realized what I was looking at, stunned me!
- Based on that Proustian moment I have decided to reread the wh..."

I'm already 10% through Swann's Way Marcelita and I know EXACTLY what you mean! Although I was saying to myself that it was a completely different novel! But I won't quibble. I'm a newbie rereader! My only problem is I sometimes read sentences and paragraphs over and over saying "This is increadible!"

I would be interested in any comments you have on my Amazon review, specifically my plea for rereading. The link is in the last Week of Time Regained".

That very well could be. Oh, and to clarify, again based on outside reading, "the ending" is the last 200 pages of "Time Regained."

I have decided to reread the entire work (ISOLT). Why I made this decision and why I believe it is potentially incredibly enlightening to reread ISOLT are discussed in my Amazon review. The review contains no discussion of content but also covers all the decision that I made regarding translations, editions, reference material, techniques etc. There are no spoilers in the review. The link to the review is:
http://smile.amazon.com/Modern-Librar...

There are issues in the last three volumes, but in retrospect not as serious apparently to the story as I believed. The genius of the ending is an opinion of outside sources. Perhaps the Carter bio will enlighten us on writing and publication. My guess now is that Proust wrote the ending and went back and was filling in details etc. when he died.

Renato wrote: "Dave, I'm sure you wouldn't look stupid with your previous comments. If it's your interpretation of the work, I believe it's a valid one, even if it's different than the most common one. But this o..."

Thanks Renato, but I let emotion get in the way. I was under the mistaken impression that since Proust was still working when he died, the work was incomplete. I was wrong, the ending is a polished masterpiece, so what I erased was not only wrong it was prejudicial to the group's collective understanding of the work.

I will post the link you requested.

Hey folks, update.
- I read the Moss and Shattuck books and discovered I had completely misunderstood the ending (and the implication of the ending).
- I went back and erased half my comments on Time Regained. I don't mind looking stupid, but even I have some modesty.
- Based on the references I read, I decided to take a second look at Swann's Way. I selected a .99 cent ebook version of Montcrieff translation and downloaded the electronic sample. Browsing around my eye caught something that, when I realized what I was looking at, stunned me!
- Based on that Proustian moment I have decided to reread the whole book.
- I have written a long review of ISOLT which covers why I decided to reread (but not what I saw in Swann's Way) and the various decisions I made to "have a plan" and get through the book.
- The review is posted on Amazon in the Modern Library Kindle Edition that the group is using (which I purchased but don't plan to use in rereading).
- There are no spoilers in the review, but both the Moss and Shattuck books, referenced in the review contain major spoilers.
Link to Amazon Review:
http://smile.amazon.com/Modern-Librar...