Greg’s Comments (group member since Jul 02, 2014)

Greg’s comments from the All About Books group.

Mark wrote: "Cool! I think I was just a little surprised by the word "abridgement". Haven't seen it in a while. - )"

Oh, way back in school I read some older works in anthologies where it had only portions of the book. A lot of times it didn't work at all because in books with complex and subtle character development, even parts that seem minor are important for understanding the psychology; so without those minor parts the books are really confusing ... in other books, there's symbols or motifs or whatever that repeat and gradually get more elaborate; so it's hard to understand separate chunks of those books either.

All I meant was that in this book, I think you could still enjoy parts of the book very well by themselves without necessarily having the whole thing. Certain chapters like 1, 2, and 13 seem really key to understanding the book--not possible to skip those--but if I'd skipped a chapter or two in the range of chapters 4-10, I think I would've still been able to get the gist of the story, to understand it and enjoy it even without that one or two chapters. I'm not about to skip any myself!! I just think that could possibly work.

Mark wrote: "Sorry the first half didn't quite work for you. I enjoyed all the mayhem and destruction. Go Woland! I read the Burgin/O'Connor translation. - )"

I had some issues with some aspects Mark, but it isn't bad at all so far. I don't regret reading it! Also, I expect things are going to deepen as it goes on.

Mark wrote: " And Yes!! to more strange! now that Margarita has joined the story. - )..."

I am very interested in these new characters, the Master and Margarita!

Mark wrote: "Exactly! I wish I could hire Woland for a day I have some old scores to settle too."

:)

To tell the truth I was a little bored in chapters 3-11 .. it seems very repetitive:

1. (view spoiler)[another man meets Woland and his minions (hide spoiler)]
2. (view spoiler)[Woland and his minions wreak havok in this man's life (hide spoiler)]
3. Go back to 1 and repeat

So in these chapters the story had me a bit bored, At first the fancy of it was interesting, but I soon got a little tired of the formula .. almost one new victim per chapter.

On the other hand, the unusual imagery (even simple things like that maroon seaweed in chapter 2) and the writing itself on a sentence level, particularly in the Ginsburg translation, is occasionally quite arresting. The writing style is a definite plus!

I found the oddly modified recounting of (view spoiler)[Pilate's story (hide spoiler)] in chapter 2 utterly fascinating though, and I'm very eager to see it picked up again (at least I hope so!!). I also found the story of the (view spoiler)["Master's" love (hide spoiler)] quite engaging in chapter 13.

The only part I found genuinely funny so far was the (view spoiler)[magic show (hide spoiler)] in chapter 12. Arkady seemed very deserving of Korovyov's version of "exposure"! It was pleasureable to see his comeuppance. Most of the other literary victims I mostly feel sorry for rather than rejoicing in their downfalls. I did love the whole bizarre show in chapter 12.

I think this is maybe one of those rare books that I wouldn't have minded reading a good abridgement. The high points are great, and there isn't much character buildup to miss so far!

Mark wrote: "I think that there is a fair amount of the real author in the character of the Master. And I also think that Bulgakov had a lot of issues with his contemporaries, who were more favored by the Stali..."

This is definitely what I assumed too, that Bulgakov is poking fun at/getting revenge against some of the literary types that he dealt with in his life, but he has to do it indirectly in this fantastical novel because of Soviet censorship and the dangers involved in being too direct.

Even as indirect as it is, some parts strike me as quite daring, especially several things in the "show" in chapter 12!

Nichole wrote: "Hi, guys. I'm going to pull out of reading this book. Magical realism is not my thing."

Sorry Nichole! Hope the next group read suits you better! :)

David wrote: "I just checked: my copy was translated by Mira Ginsburg in the late ‘80’s. Ginsberg apparently knew Bulgakov and wrote the biography that appears in the beginning of the book.
This version seems to..."

Thanks so much David - very glad to know which translation the Audible one is!!

Mark wrote: "Hey David - Greg is the audible guy; I'm strictly a paper-book guy. - ) ..."

Haha, I almost always do half and half. I get both the paperback and audio versions. On my commute, I listen. Then at night, I flip forward in the paperback to where the audio left off and read hard copy. Then the next day on my commute, I fast forward to where I left off reading. Etc.

Leslie wrote: "Really? I am already chuckling at the discussion about Jesus & Berlioz's contention that he never existed but was a myth. ..."

Yeah Leslie, it felt too exaggerated and much like many other spoofs I had read on religion in chapter 1, but things have improved much for me since then. I had to get into the groove of it.

Chapter 2 was fascinating in trying to puzzle out the reasons for the changes in the Bible story, what he's trying to get at; plus Pilate himself comes across as an intriguing character.

Then in chapters 3-4 as the story got more mysterious/absurd with the (view spoiler)[unholy trinity of the cat, conductor, and "professor" (hide spoiler)], I was much more engaged. I still don't find it very funny yet, but I love the mystery and the layering of symbols. Sparrows, moons, suns - many of these images are recurring in odd, unconventional ways. I like that it isn't just an allegory. It reminds me a lot of Haruki Murakami in that I feel true mystery there - it isn't just X=Y, and it also isn't just a big sterile mind game like some of Thomas Pynchon's work. This book is not at all what I'd expected it to be.

Mark wrote: "Thanks, Greg. It gets more fantastic with each successive page!
Takes you right out to the edge. A very fun book. - )"

Good to hear! :)

Mark wrote: "I read the Burgin & O'Connor translation and found it just fine. ..."

I think this is true Mark - it's just that the writing style of Burgin/O'Connor translation comes across as more matter-of-fact.

Here's another comparison from chapter 2:

Burgin and O'Connor:

"The rose bush, laden with flowers, had vanished, as had the cypresses bordering the upper terrace, and the pomegranite tree, and the white statue in the foilage, even the foilage itself. In place of all this floated a crimson sediment in which seaweed began to sway and move somewhere, and Pilate moved along with it. Now he was engulfed by the most terrible rage of all, rage that choked and burned him--the rage of powerlessness."

Audible translation - mystery translator??:

"Gone was the rosebush, heavy with flowers. Gone were the cypresses framing the upper terrace. Gone was the pomegranite tree and the white statue surrounded by greenery and finally, the greenery itself. A maroon haze swam around him, a swaying mass of seaweed that floated somewhere and carried Pilate with it. Suffocated and scalded, he was borne aloft by the worst kind of rage--impotent rage."

It may just be personal taste, but the Audible translation feels much more immediate, active, engaging, and vivid to me. It occasionally even strikes me as lovely. I just enjoy reading it more. By comparison, the Burgin/O'Connor one feels only servicable to my taste. Of course, who knows what the style of the original Russian is like? Maybe it too is simpler and a bit more passive like the Burgin/O'Connor one? I can't say anything about accuracy - I just know I enjoy reading the Audible translation much more. If I didn't have it for comparison, I'm sure I would be ok with the Burgin/O'Connor one - it isn't bad by any means.

David wrote: "A large rabbit with a pocket watch and a mad queen screaming “Off with their heads!” would have seemed normal in that world. ."

This is very true David and Mark - I haven't gotten far enough to comment fully, but it rings true.

David wrote: "I am 16% through. Not sure “Hilarious” is quite the right word for this if you aren’t Russian. But it is amusing. And it IS magical realism: THAT you either get or you don’t. I loved “100 years of ..."

Magical realism is a good description David - I agree, definitely.

As I said before, I didn't find much of interest in chapter 1. Chapter 2 is intriguing though. The story of Pontius Pilate and Christ has been altered quite extremely, in many very fundamental ways. I'm eager as I get further to understand the reason for it.

Rather than welcoming everyone in the hopes of transformation, this Christ stubbornly believes that there are no evil people on Earth. (?)

This Christ is not at all clever. In the Bible, he sidesteps dangerous questions of Roman authority by cleverly saying that Caesar should by given what is Caesar's, that Caesar can have money and all that is earthly, that the kingdom he speaks of is a spiritual kingdom in another place. Here in this story, Christ is like an idiot savant - he challenges Caesar's authority directly and seems completely unaware of the consequences.

So why then these and many other differences? It's curious. I'm way too early in the book to know.

One disappointment: the style of my paperback translation appeals to me much less than the audible version's translation. For example this passage:

Paperback - trans. Burgin & O'Connor:

"He seemed to see the prisoner's head float off somewhere, and another head appear in its place. On top of his bald head was a gold crown with widely-spaced points. On the forehead was a round sore, eating away at the skin and smeared with ointment."

Audible - translator ???

"It appeared to him as though the prisoner's head had drifted off somewhere, to be replaced by another, a golden wreath with rarely placed points rested atop the balding head. A rotting round sore smeared with balm adorned the forehead."

A pity Audible rarely lists the translator - as I'm trading off back and forth between hard copy and audiobook, I would've liked to get the same one for both. The Audible translation also chooses names than are much clearer in meaning, such as "Matthew Levi" instead of "Levi Matvei."

idiffer wrote: "I'm fine with no windows. My window has blinds, which are permanently closed."

You would be happy at my old company idiffer!

Leslie and Chrissie, I'm with you! :)

Thanks Laura and dely! It would be nice if they opened Chrissie, but I agree Laura and dely - just being able to see outside makes a huge diffefence.

I worked over 10 years in an area of a building where I couldn't see out of a window all day. I couldn't tell if it was dark or light, raining or sunny, anything until I left for the day .. so depressing!!! Some days I saw no sunlight at all. This new building is so much better!

Raul wrote: "I loved The Lottery by Shirley Jackson
And wrote a short review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

It's a great story Raul!

Heather wrote: "I finished La Belle Sauvageyesterday which I really enjoyed. Here is my 4* review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

So good to hear Heather! I'm really looking forward to it!

Ruth wrote: "Yeah, I like them too. Can't wait to see this one and Justice League is coming out this month too. : )"

I'm sure I'll be seeing that one as well! Just a couple moew weeks until it comes out!