Penric and the Bandit e-cover sneak peek
Art again by Ron Miller, https://www.black-cat-studios.com/
At the time I contacted Ron, I was divided in mind between a Significant Objects still-life cover, or some scene from the story. Ron got about two pages into the manuscript and hit the description of the map, and went ping! Ron is very partial to maps. And I like Significant Objects covers because they duck all thorny issues of what characters or settings look like, plus I think they are cleaner and classier. So our cover conference was very short this time.
On the making-of, Ron writes:
"Things that might be fun for your readers…
The map was drawn on a piece of real paper that I distressed, stained and photographed. The dice are real, too. And the coins are gold-foil-wrapped chocolate coins I got at Walmart!
R"
I have written the vendor-page copy, but it might be interesting to let you speculate on the cover for a bit without it...
Ta, L.
(We are aiming for early July for e-pub date, conditions permitting.)
At the time I contacted Ron, I was divided in mind between a Significant Objects still-life cover, or some scene from the story. Ron got about two pages into the manuscript and hit the description of the map, and went ping! Ron is very partial to maps. And I like Significant Objects covers because they duck all thorny issues of what characters or settings look like, plus I think they are cleaner and classier. So our cover conference was very short this time.
On the making-of, Ron writes:
"Things that might be fun for your readers…
The map was drawn on a piece of real paper that I distressed, stained and photographed. The dice are real, too. And the coins are gold-foil-wrapped chocolate coins I got at Walmart!
R"
I have written the vendor-page copy, but it might be interesting to let you speculate on the cover for a bit without it...
Ta, L.
(We are aiming for early July for e-pub date, conditions permitting.)
date
newest »
newest »
Hmm, the dice may be real, but they're not correct, at least by modern standards.Opposing faces on a die should add up to 7, so 5 and 2 should be opposite each other, not adjacent as shown here.
Check any die... except, I guess, the ones used for this art. :P
It’s a good cover, although the dice look slightly out of place: ordinary 20th/21st century plastic dice from our world. I feel that dice from Penric’s world would look slightly different: not plastic, and probably not white.The pentagon near the top of the map looks highly significant, but I have no idea what it represents. It could be a lake, a cabin, a fortress, the location of buried treasure, etc.
I’m due to go into hospital next week, probably for a two-week stay; perhaps the novella will be available by the time I come out. Something to look forward to.
A major temple at the end of a road seems wrong, so maybe the pentagon marks a theological academy?The text looks like vaguely Latin, vaguely Greek, firmly fictional script. This is an area where you want to either keep things vague or provide enough consistent detail that professor Tolkien won't haunt you....
Maps are the best. I was already excited, but now even more so! Get my dawg Grover on it, asap! =)
When I saw mountains, I thought of Pen's home, but then I remembered that in Penric's Mission, they escaped over mountains, too. I guess there are a lot of mountains all around.Also, I never realized that opposing sides of a die had to add up to 7. One learns something every day.
Jonathan wrote: "It’s a good cover, although the dice look slightly out of place: ordinary 20th/21st century plastic dice from our world. I feel that dice from Penric’s world would look slightly different: not plas..."I feel like they should be 5-sided dice. And there might be 5 of them. All different, representative colors, so 1 of the die would be white, or maybe silver?
Beth wrote: “I feel like they should be 5-sided dice. And there might be 5 of them. All different, representative colors, so 1 of the die would be white, or maybe silver?”I didn’t think of that. Interesting idea. However, I think the reason that we have six-sided dice is because they’re the easiest to make: a simple cube. I’m not sure, but I think five-sided dice would be difficult to make. I suppose the easiest way would be to use a cube but leave one face blank.
I found some interesting images of 5-sided dice. Unfortunately, goodreads doesn't let me post pictures in a comment field. I don't even get to post links.In my mind, the dice need to be irregular shapes instead of isohedral.
As for the colors:
Orange with brown numbers?
Blue with white numbers?
Green with gold numbers?
White with silver numbers?
Gray with black numbers?
Erik wrote: "Hmm, the dice may be real, but they're not correct, at least by modern standards.Opposing faces on a die should add up to 7, so 5 and 2 should be opposite each other, not adjacent as shown here.
..."
I was just waiting for someone to zoom into the cover! As you say, the dice don't conform to "modern standards." The story doesn't take place in our world (where seven has a special significance in some cultures) so this was one way to suggest that customs are different here.
Bo wrote: "A major temple at the end of a road seems wrong, so maybe the pentagon marks a theological academy?The text looks like vaguely Latin, vaguely Greek, firmly fictional script. This is an area where..."
It's based on 19th century attempts to create Greek cursive.
Laura wrote: "When I saw mountains, I thought of Pen's home, but then I remembered that in Penric's Mission, they escaped over mountains, too. I guess there are a lot of mountains all around.Also, I never reali..."
Only in our culture.
I sort of assumed that the 5 was on top because of the "five gods"/Quintarian belief, and the 4 was the number I noticed next for the Quadrine beliefs. The 2, I didn't have a theory to explain. But do stick to my theory of some sort of gambling game.And, of course, no matter what I theorize about the cover, I know I will enjoy the tale that Lois has written for us.
Ron wrote: "Erik wrote: "Hmm, the dice may be real, but they're not correct, at least by modern standards.Opposing faces on a die should add up to 7, so 5 and 2 should be opposite each other, not adjacent as..."
Hah, and here I figured a still-life cover would be impossible to fancrit. I underestimate my fans!
Hee, L.
There is an endemic problem with depicting anything from an imaginary world...especially one that is really just a kind of alternatie to our own. Nothing can really be exactly the same. For instance, one can't include such familiar things as, say, a cigarette, a #2 pencil or a paperclip. By the same token, one can't say "X doesn't look like that" or "Y doesn't work that way" since X and Y as we know them may not exist in the imaginary world or work in the way we expect. To this end, I try to be aware of trying to be careful about such crossovers, trying to add something unfamiliar to what might be otherwise out of context. The dice are a perfect example on a couple of counts. The first is that the word "dice" conjures up the familiar cubes with their black pips. I realize that dodecahedronal dice have been around for a couple of thousand years but I suspect that today they are mostly associated with role playing games...where the traditional cubes instead conjure up gambling and games of chance...what one might expect in an inn or tavern. Too, there was a visual issue: the white cubes are immediately recognizable at whatever size the art might appear: especially thumbail size, which is how the cover will be seen most often. At that size, a pair of stoneware dodecahedrons would be little more than roundish blobs. Sure, you could discover what they are by zooming in closely...but a cover should not depend on such scrutiny: it needs to convey its idea in a glance. Having made that decision I thought to make the dice a little less a product of our own culture (where seven is a number with special significance) and fiddle with the number of pips on the sides, which would add just a touch of alieness to anyone looking closely.
Lois wrote: "Ron wrote: "Erik wrote: "Hmm, the dice may be real, but they're not correct, at least by modern standards.Opposing faces on a die should add up to 7, so 5 and 2 should be opposite each other, not..."
As I replied to the original post: the opposite sides of a die do add up to 7...in our world. I just posted a longer comment explaining that the placement of the pips was done specifically to make the dice a product of a very different culture.
These dice obviously follow the principle of minimal imbalance: 1 opposite 2; 3 opposite 4; 5 opposite 6.⚀⚂⚄⚁⚃⚅
I am looking forward to the publication!
Jonathan wrote: "Beth wrote: “I feel like they should be 5-sided dice. And there might be 5 of them. All different, representative colors, so 1 of the die would be white, or maybe silver?”I didn’t think of that. ..."
There are variety of different sided dice in the Dungeons and Dragons board games.
Todd wrote: "Maps are the best. I was already excited, but now even more so! Get my dawg Grover on it, asap! =)"Oh yes, please!
Connie wrote: “There are variety of different sided dice in the Dungeons and Dragons board games.”I was thinking that five-sided dice would be rather difficult to make in Penric’s world—good ones, that is, that would come up on each side with equal probability.
Not so difficult in our modern world, although there probably isn’t much demand for five-sided ones specifically.
A new Penric story? Yes, please - and thank you so much!
Jonathan wrote: "Connie wrote: “There are variety of different sided dice in the Dungeons and Dragons board games.”I was thinking that five-sided dice would be rather difficult to make in Penric’s world—good ones..."
But I was thinking that it wouldn't be so important for them to have an equal chance? There would be 5 five-sided dice. One for each deity. The chance would favor each deity's preferred number: "...fifth and white," for example.
Beth wrote: “But I was thinking that it wouldn't be so important for them to have an equal chance? There would be 5 five-sided dice. One for each deity. The chance would favor each deity's preferred number: "...fifth and white," for example.”Neither artist nor author could have expected this thread about cover design to transform itself into a debate about the design of dice in the World of the Five Gods.
However, it’s not for me to say whether the people of this fictional world would prefer honest or loaded dice.
I LOVE that Ron jumped in to explain the artist perspective. It's like a mini-SF con online.
Steve wrote: "I LOVE that Ron jumped in to explain the artist perspective. It's like a mini-SF con online."I agree. Getting author and artist perspectives is wonderful.
Erik wrote: "Hmm, the dice may be real, but they're not correct, at least by modern standards.Opposing faces on a die should add up to 7, so 5 and 2 should be opposite each other, not adjacent as shown here.
..."
A quick web search and I found that "opposing faces add up to 7" was common in Roman dice and in dice after about 1450. In between, the more common pattern had opposing faces add up to prime numbers (1+2=3, 3+4=7, and 5+6=11). So this is a case where not correct is correct :)
On the other thumb, the dice do look too modern to my eye: Too white (I would have expected ivory, bone (off) white, or wood-brown) and with what look like plastic-dice molded in pips. And the perspective is funky.
A new Penric- how very lovely indeed!! I’ve also enjoyed the artist/author discussion about the die. It’s quite fascinating!
Ron wrote: "Bo wrote: "The text looks like vaguely Latin, vaguely Greek, firmly fictional script." It's based on 19th century attempts to create Greek cursive.Given that, may we assume that the script is Cedonian (rather than, say, Roknari)? I remember from Penric's Demon that Cedonian uses a different script than Wealdian.
Ron wrote: "There is an endemic problem with depicting anything from an imaginary world...especially one that is really just a kind of alternatie to our own. Nothing can really be exactly the same. For instanc..."Hey Ron. It is very cool that you put such thought in how to make the objects in the cover have that touch of alienness, such as changing the pips on the dice. Also nice work on the map. Cheers.
Early July sounds good to me!