Gail Simone's Blog, page 1077
February 9, 2012
angrysunbird:
gailsimone:
rickgrimesandcompany:
gailsimone:
w...
Okay, I don't want to start shit by posting these scans.
Because I used to love Babs!
But this is still really funny.
And I know I'm going to get shit for posting it but screw it.
Wow, what issue is this from, anyone know?
It's funny, but it's also true. I don't think Barbara before OR after the Killing Joke could ever go toe to toe with Cass.
I like to think she might get a little better each time they face off, but Cass is always going to be the superior fighter.
Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins IIRC.
That would explain how I missed it, I didn't get that book when it came out, I guess.
I kind of love this scene. The Batgirl writer in me wants Barbara to do a little better, and the Cass fan in loves it just as it is. :)
Gail? Can I ask a question? Do you plan on having Babs mention mentoring both Cass and Steph in the Batgirl book?
I have to be SO freaking careful here for a bunch of reasons…I don't want people to take what I'm saying the wrong way, I hate spoilers, and there's also a confidentiality issue.
So I have to really walk a fine line.
All I can say is, first, I was kind of behind the idea of Cass or Steph, probably Cass, being a supporting character in Batgirl. But I really think she deserves better. I would prefer that they not be in Barbara's shadow, even unintentionally.
Batman isn't going to be in a lot of issues for a little while, so the answer is probably no, but I think the question you are asking is if they will be mentioned at all, right?
IF everything goes as planned, I am hoping we can mention at LEAST one of them in a very positive way fairly soon. The exact connections are still all being worked out and negotiated and planned.
I wish I could answer this better, dang it.
Jesus. Having to negotiate to have one of the two so much as mentioned. Perhaps I'm being negative but that doesn't seem like a great place to start trying to get them back into the DCU.
As usual lately, I didn't phrase that well. The mention isn't what requires negotiation. ;)
rickgrimesandcompany:
gailsimone:
wonderarity:
gailsimone:
go...
Okay, I don't want to start shit by posting these scans.
Because I used to love Babs!
But this is still really funny.
And I know I'm going to get shit for posting it but screw it.
Wow, what issue is this from, anyone know?
It's funny, but it's also true. I don't think Barbara before OR after the Killing Joke could ever go toe to toe with Cass.
I like to think she might get a little better each time they face off, but Cass is always going to be the superior fighter.
Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins IIRC.
That would explain how I missed it, I didn't get that book when it came out, I guess.
I kind of love this scene. The Batgirl writer in me wants Barbara to do a little better, and the Cass fan in loves it just as it is. :)
Gail? Can I ask a question? Do you plan on having Babs mention mentoring both Cass and Steph in the Batgirl book?
I have to be SO freaking careful here for a bunch of reasons…I don't want people to take what I'm saying the wrong way, I hate spoilers, and there's also a confidentiality issue.
So I have to really walk a fine line.
All I can say is, first, I was kind of behind the idea of Cass or Steph, probably Cass, being a supporting character in Batgirl. But I really think she deserves better. I would prefer that they not be in Barbara's shadow, even unintentionally.
Batman isn't going to be in a lot of issues for a little while, so the answer is probably no, but I think the question you are asking is if they will be mentioned at all, right?
IF everything goes as planned, I am hoping we can mention at LEAST one of them in a very positive way fairly soon. The exact connections are still all being worked out and negotiated and planned.
I wish I could answer this better, dang it.
wonderarity:
gailsimone:
gothambeat:
Okay, I don't want to...
Okay, I don't want to start shit by posting these scans.
Because I used to love Babs!
But this is still really funny.
And I know I'm going to get shit for posting it but screw it.
Wow, what issue is this from, anyone know?
It's funny, but it's also true. I don't think Barbara before OR after the Killing Joke could ever go toe to toe with Cass.
I like to think she might get a little better each time they face off, but Cass is always going to be the superior fighter.
Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins IIRC.
That would explain how I missed it, I didn't get that book when it came out, I guess.
I kind of love this scene. The Batgirl writer in me wants Barbara to do a little better, and the Cass fan in loves it just as it is. :)
Where's The Beef?: I Liked Batgirl #6. There, I Said It
Yes, that one line isn't doing anybody any favors and I hate it just as much as the rest of you. But to write off an entire issue, an entire series, based on a single sentence that Bruce probably only told Barbara because he felt she needed to hear it? That says more about your own feelings than…
I'm glad you liked it…but I think people are seeing meta commentary where there is none. It's not me or DC speaking to the audience, it's Bruce, speaking to Barbara, the way I always like to write him, with love to someone he thinks of as a daughter. Truthfully, I think meta-commentary in fiction is getting really trite and tedious…I feel like they are always trying to pander to me. It's frustrating…and I'm kind of glad to be slowly moving away from it, if that makes sense. Also, this doesn't mean Cass or Steph couldn't be or have been Batgirl, that never even crossed our minds. It's just that Barbara is the first…then she had a hiatus. What happened to the name during that time is still open. But I am glad you enjoyed it!
Babs had a "hiatus"? No. She was Batgirl. Then she passed the name to other heroes that deserved it, while she went on to bigger things. Then she took the name back for no adequately-explained reason. That's not a hiatus, and calling it that basically says that Steph and Cass were never 'real' Batgirls, they were just keeping the cowl warm. This is why people object, it's Bruce ignoring 2 Batgirls and Oracle to pump up Babs, which is the exact same thing editorial has been doing since the reboot was announced. Assuming that's metacommentary isn't a big stretch.
I wouldn't use the word, 'stretch,' maybe. But I've read quite a few long posts that present authority on what this 'invalidates' that couldn't be further from the truth.
People have concluded that this means there was never and will be no Cass Batgirl, was never and will be no Steph Batgirl, and was never and will be no Oracle. And I have to say, that is a lot of weight to put on a single sentence in a single panel under the best of circumstances.
Some of the conclusions are not correct. Some are not in my control or haven't yet been decided by editorial. But none of it has anything to do with that sentence.
It's Bruce telling Barbara that he trusts her and that she's earned his trust.
This is still VERY early in Barbara's actual career in the cowl.
I mean this with the utmost respect and care, so please, I hope you understand that that's how I mean this.
You miss Cass, and Steph, and Oracle. I do, too. There's a lot of stuff in the new DCnU we haven't yet seen come back in force. And things always move slower than we would like. I am writing Barbara right now. I want there to be a successful Batgirl book in the DCU. I want Barbara to have a place in the DCU. No one is ever going to get me to write a sentence that erases Cass or Steph in any way.Their role might evolve somewhat, it might not be in my hands at all. Maybe the next B.Q.M. is out there, or the CURRENT B.Q.M., even, to rebuild those characters. I might not get to bring them back personally, but if anyone thinks I want them on the bench, they are very mistaken.
Again, I understand WHY people look for meta-commentary in so much genre fiction right now, and we lose ownership of the meaning of a story once it is in front of a reader's eyes. It's never a good idea for a writer to get down to parsing individual sentences, I think it sort of diminishes the reader and the story both, and it's even a little bit patronizing, and I don't want to do that.
So all I can say is, looking at every Batgirl through the lens of missing Cass and Steph, it's understandable why people think this is some kind of shut-down of those characters. But there is nothing in that sentence that invalidates any of those characters either before or after Barbara put the cape back on.
I'm a little bummed that it's taking longer than I had hoped to get some of these characters off the bench, but it doesn't mean we've stopped trying.
I just finished reading Batgirl #6 after reading a fair amount of the commentary popping up all over the net. This is some of the silliest controversy I've ever seen.
I can't see how that single sentence can be interpreted as Cass & Steph or their times as Batgirl being removed from existence. Bruce never says Babs was the only Batgirl. Just that in Bruce's opinion, Barbara was meant to be Batgirl. That doesn't imply that there weren't other Batgirls. People sure interpret things in strange ways.
Even if Steph never was Batgirl, I thought she was mighty fine as Spoiler, so I for one would be totally fine if that's how she was eventually reintroduced.
Some of these other rants about this issue are so ridiculous like "Barbara doesn't need Batman's approval to be Batgirl!" -that Bruce's words were sexist and anti-feminist.
Well, that's just silly. Of course she does! Not to be a costumed crime-fighter of course. But she wants to be Batgirl. Bruce didn't make his fortune giving away licensing rights to just anyone. I think Batman has a right to decide who can wear his symbol. He started a whole global initiative to do just that. Barbara couldn't walk into Best Buy wearing an employee uniform if she wasn't an employee. Not that Babs is necessarily Batman's employee (though he does help her with the bills).
As an extension to this argument spurred by this panel, I read someone saying that the name BatGIRL also was offensive, because she's a grown woman. That somehow calling her a "girl" belittles her position to the "man." I think some people are thinking too hard.
I totally agree that there should be changes in the industry regarding female characters and creators, but there are so many over-the-top, incredibly negative rants on this subject that I think it hurts the credibility of people trying to make a legitimate case or effort, especially when the attacks are now even aimed at a series with a female lead written by a female creator.
I happened to like Batgirl #6. I think the new villains in this series are kinda awesome. I don't think it's a perfect book. While well written, I think (for me) Barbara was never really that interesting as Batgirl the first time around. I still enjoy it for what it is, even if I'd rather see someone else behind the cowl.
Whoa whoa whoa…I appreciate all the kind words but, really, there's no reason to attack anyone. I'm not offended, people aren't being mean, they just had a reaction to the book or the scene or whatever, which is ALWAYS fair game.
Really, it's okay, everyone's entitled to their opinion.
A lot of these people deeply love Cass, Oracle, or Steph and they feel, rightly or wrongly, that this book invalidates those characters in some manner. It's completely understandable to be upset about that. Completely.
For others, they just plain don't like the scene, or the book, or my work, or whatever. All of that is ALSO fair game.
It's fine! I was really just having a discussion with some posters and I thought everyone was being perfectly respectful even in disagreement. There's no need to circle any wagons or anything.
The truth is, for all the anger on some Tumblr threads, this is probably the best reception we've had for an issue of the new Batgirl. We've been hearing about it from people all day long. That's just how it is, the story one person loves is hated by someone else. It doesn't make anyone a bad person.
We're all comics readers, no reason to forget that, okay?
Circling the wagons? Didn't realize I was attacking anyone. Sorry if it sounded that way. Maybe my Best Buy uniform bit didn't come off as funny as I thought it sounded in my head. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions. I never said anyone was a bad person. Just that I thought some commentary on this issue seemed blown out of proportion. I did say some of the sexism arguments are a bit over-the-top without justifiable context. Just commenting on general commentary.
All I'm trying to say is that I think some readers are thinking a little too hard about finding meanings that aren't there. Just enjoy the book for what it is. Otherwise, this relaunch is just going to drive fans crazy, yearning for yesteryear that isn't coming back (at least not currently).
The New 52 is full of great books. They may not be what every longtime fan wanted. I certainly would prefer Steph as Batgirl. I know plenty of others who would prefer Cass. I'll take Babs though, because it's a decent book.
I messed up, I was responding to the poster before you who was a little more confrontational. I am not sure what I did wrong but it ended up reblogging you, instead. I caught it just after and sent you a pm. My mistake entirely!
Where's The Beef?: I Liked Batgirl #6. There, I Said It
Yes, that one line isn't doing anybody any favors and I hate it just as much as the rest of you. But to write off an entire issue, an entire series, based on a single sentence that Bruce probably only told Barbara because he felt she needed to hear it? That says more about your own feelings than…
I'm glad you liked it…but I think people are seeing meta commentary where there is none. It's not me or DC speaking to the audience, it's Bruce, speaking to Barbara, the way I always like to write him, with love to someone he thinks of as a daughter. Truthfully, I think meta-commentary in fiction is getting really trite and tedious…I feel like they are always trying to pander to me. It's frustrating…and I'm kind of glad to be slowly moving away from it, if that makes sense. Also, this doesn't mean Cass or Steph couldn't be or have been Batgirl, that never even crossed our minds. It's just that Barbara is the first…then she had a hiatus. What happened to the name during that time is still open. But I am glad you enjoyed it!
Babs had a "hiatus"? No. She was Batgirl. Then she passed the name to other heroes that deserved it, while she went on to bigger things. Then she took the name back for no adequately-explained reason. That's not a hiatus, and calling it that basically says that Steph and Cass were never 'real' Batgirls, they were just keeping the cowl warm. This is why people object, it's Bruce ignoring 2 Batgirls and Oracle to pump up Babs, which is the exact same thing editorial has been doing since the reboot was announced. Assuming that's metacommentary isn't a big stretch.
I wouldn't use the word, 'stretch,' maybe. But I've read quite a few long posts that present authority on what this 'invalidates' that couldn't be further from the truth.
People have concluded that this means there was never and will be no Cass Batgirl, was never and will be no Steph Batgirl, and was never and will be no Oracle. And I have to say, that is a lot of weight to put on a single sentence in a single panel under the best of circumstances.
Some of the conclusions are not correct. Some are not in my control or haven't yet been decided by editorial. But none of it has anything to do with that sentence.
It's Bruce telling Barbara that he trusts her and that she's earned his trust.
This is still VERY early in Barbara's actual career in the cowl.
I mean this with the utmost respect and care, so please, I hope you understand that that's how I mean this.
You miss Cass, and Steph, and Oracle. I do, too. There's a lot of stuff in the new DCnU we haven't yet seen come back in force. And things always move slower than we would like. I am writing Barbara right now. I want there to be a successful Batgirl book in the DCU. I want Barbara to have a place in the DCU. No one is ever going to get me to write a sentence that erases Cass or Steph in any way.Their role might evolve somewhat, it might not be in my hands at all. Maybe the next B.Q.M. is out there, or the CURRENT B.Q.M., even, to rebuild those characters. I might not get to bring them back personally, but if anyone thinks I want them on the bench, they are very mistaken.
Again, I understand WHY people look for meta-commentary in so much genre fiction right now, and we lose ownership of the meaning of a story once it is in front of a reader's eyes. It's never a good idea for a writer to get down to parsing individual sentences, I think it sort of diminishes the reader and the story both, and it's even a little bit patronizing, and I don't want to do that.
So all I can say is, looking at every Batgirl through the lens of missing Cass and Steph, it's understandable why people think this is some kind of shut-down of those characters. But there is nothing in that sentence that invalidates any of those characters either before or after Barbara put the cape back on.
I'm a little bummed that it's taking longer than I had hoped to get some of these characters off the bench, but it doesn't mean we've stopped trying.
I just finished reading Batgirl #6 after reading a fair amount of the commentary popping up all over the net. This is some of the silliest controversy I've ever seen.
I can't see how that single sentence can be interpreted as Cass & Steph or their times as Batgirl being removed from existence. Bruce never says Babs was the only Batgirl. Just that in Bruce's opinion, Barbara was meant to be Batgirl. That doesn't imply that there weren't other Batgirls. People sure interpret things in strange ways.
Even if Steph never was Batgirl, I thought she was mighty fine as Spoiler, so I for one would be totally fine if that's how she was eventually reintroduced.
Some of these other rants about this issue are so ridiculous like "Barbara doesn't need Batman's approval to be Batgirl!" -that Bruce's words were sexist and anti-feminist.
Well, that's just silly. Of course she does! Not to be a costumed crime-fighter of course. But she wants to be Batgirl. Bruce didn't make his fortune giving away licensing rights to just anyone. I think Batman has a right to decide who can wear his symbol. He started a whole global initiative to do just that. Barbara couldn't walk into Best Buy wearing an employee uniform if she wasn't an employee. Not that Babs is necessarily Batman's employee (though he does help her with the bills).
As an extension to this argument spurred by this panel, I read someone saying that the name BatGIRL also was offensive, because she's a grown woman. That somehow calling her a "girl" belittles her position to the "man." I think some people are thinking too hard.
I totally agree that there should be changes in the industry regarding female characters and creators, but there are so many over-the-top, incredibly negative rants on this subject that I think it hurts the credibility of people trying to make a legitimate case or effort, especially when the attacks are now even aimed at a series with a female lead written by a female creator.
I happened to like Batgirl #6. I think the new villains in this series are kinda awesome. I don't think it's a perfect book. While well written, I think (for me) Barbara was never really that interesting as Batgirl the first time around. I still enjoy it for what it is, even if I'd rather see someone else behind the cowl.
Whoa whoa whoa…I appreciate all the kind words but, really, there's no reason to attack anyone. I'm not offended, people aren't being mean, they just had a reaction to the book or the scene or whatever, which is ALWAYS fair game.
Really, it's okay, everyone's entitled to their opinion.
A lot of these people deeply love Cass, Oracle, or Steph and they feel, rightly or wrongly, that this book invalidates those characters in some manner. It's completely understandable to be upset about that. Completely.
For others, they just plain don't like the scene, or the book, or my work, or whatever. All of that is ALSO fair game.
It's fine! I was really just having a discussion with some posters and I thought everyone was being perfectly respectful even in disagreement. There's no need to circle any wagons or anything.
The truth is, for all the anger on some Tumblr threads, this is probably the best reception we've had for an issue of the new Batgirl. We've been hearing about it from people all day long. That's just how it is, the story one person loves is hated by someone else. It doesn't make anyone a bad person.
We're all comics readers, no reason to forget that, okay?
flutter-sassy:
gailsimone:
papercanary:
I got choked up at...
I got choked up at this. I'm not kidding.
I'm glad it meant that much to you.
It's no secret that I am not a fan of Batman being a jerk. I just always want their to be a human being with a heart in that suit. I think I've written the bat-jerk version once, and he redeemed himself at the end. Otherwise, I want the Batman who sneaks in the window to kiss a wounded Barbara on the head while she's sleeping, awaiting surgery.
What interests me in the bat-family is how two people can love each other and never say it. Bruce never says it to Alfred, Dick never says it to Bruce, on and on. For once, I wanted someone to actually say what they felt. That's the Batman I like best. Scott is writing that Batman over in his book and I am loving it.
Is it weird that I don't really view Batman as a jerk so much as emotionally repressed because of his parent's death and it kind of makes sense that he isn't verbal with his feelings because of that? I don't know. I kind of like that he is that way in a sense. That makes it when he does show emotion in some other way more noticeable or meaningful. WHATEVER I HAVE A LOT OF BRUCE FEELINGS.
No, I think you're right, I think they are making him less of a jerk over the last several years. But there was a while where, I swear, it seemed like his defining characteristic was being a jerk to the people he loved.
Which just doesn't make any sense at all. It sucks the bat-family inside out.
So I'm glad to see the Bat-teams showing him with some kindness.
fyeahbatgirl:
Batgirl by Jesse Lonergan
WHAT IS WITH ALL THIS...
Batgirl by Jesse Lonergan
WHAT IS WITH ALL THIS JOYFUL BATGIRL ART TODAY?
That's a blast, she may be ready to do the batusi!
fyeahdickandbabs:
Young Justice Batgirl by shoot-o
Dang. If...
Young Justice Batgirl by shoot-o
Dang. If Batgirl had a cartoon, this would be a GREAT design all the way around!
Just read Batgirl #6 of the New 52.
Holy fuck I just can't wait until issue seven. *nerds out*
I'm very glad…hope you like it!
There's some heart stopping stuff coming up, things that very rarely get touched on in superhero comics. I am excited!
papercanary:
I got choked up at this. I'm not...
I got choked up at this. I'm not kidding.
I'm glad it meant that much to you.
It's no secret that I am not a fan of Batman being a jerk. I just always want there to be a human being with a heart in that suit. I think I've written the bat-jerk version once, and he redeemed himself at the end. Otherwise, I want the Batman who sneaks in the window to kiss a wounded Barbara on the head while she's sleeping, awaiting surgery.
What interests me in the bat-family is how two people can love each other and never say it. Bruce never says it to Alfred, Dick never says it to Bruce, on and on. For once, I wanted someone to actually say what they felt. That's the Batman I like best. Scott is writing that Batman over in his book and I am loving it.
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