Marc Tyler Nobleman's Blog, page 105

“The Bloodhound Gang” (“3-2-1 Contact”) cast interviews, 2 of 4

Part 1.

“The Bloodhound Gang” was a series of short, live-action mysteries that may have been the most popular segment of the 1980s PBS science show 3-2-1 Contact.

What did you think of the series at the time?

Nan: I thought it was a great way to teach science to kids. I was very happy to be a part of something that did not talk down to children. It felt very worthwhile.
Seth: Huge fan. I was even a subscriber to the CTW magazine, which featured a “Bloodhound Gang” story in each month’s issue. The only shows I was watching back then was 3-2-1 Contact and Mork and Mindy. I was certainly a nerd.
Glenn: I loved it and was proud to be a part of it.

Marcelino, Seth, Nan, filmstrips; photo courtesy of Seth Greenspan
What did your parents think of it?

Nan: My mother was very proud of me and happy for me, even though she still wanted me to be a lawyer.
Seth: My parents were super supportive and probably prouder than I was.
Glenn: They thought it was a wonderful show for youth.

What did your friends think of it?

Nan: My friends, I think, were happy for me. They were also in show business so maybe…they…weren’t…?
Glenn: They liked it, too. Many would ask how we came up with solutions to the cases. I had to explain it was just a show. We weren’t real and didn’t come up with anything. LOL.

How did you balance doing the series and going to school?

Nan: I was a working actress and wife at the time. I was not going to school.
Seth: I had a complete 7th and 8th grade month-long lesson plan, [including] homework, to submit to my regular school. I usually wound up doing my studies for the day in an hour or two at night. I was a quick reader for a kid.
Glenn: I had a tutor on the set throughout my childhood.

Did the show ever affect your love life in any way?

Nan: Huh?
Glenn: No. I was just a kid. No love life. LOL.

[to be clear, I meant when they were old enough to have a love life!]

Did you receive fan mail? If so, do you still have any of it?

Nan: Yes, I did receive fan mail. Unfortunately, I do not have any of it as I have moved several times and those kinds of things I guess just get left behind or lost in unopened boxes. I believe I still have the red jacket that Vikki wore.
Seth: No, but I was recognized once. When I was 15 I took a job at the carny [carnival] when it came through my town. Certainly an interesting four days—the underbelly of entertainment. When I was running the bouncing balloon building, two girls kept staring at me. Turns out one babysat a kid who watched the show, and she recognized me and wanted an autograph. But that was it.
Glenn: I did receive fan mail but I do not have any of it now. My home burned to the ground in 2008 and I lost all memorabilia from my entire life. I had great pics but they are gone, too.

Did you ever meet the writer of the series?

Nan and Seth: No.
Glenn: Yes.

Did you ever come up with ideas for stories or parts of stories?

Nan: No. We were never asked and I never thought to make any suggestions.
Seth: No, but the Executive Producer, Linda Marmelstein, recognized I was a curious lad, and she instructed the crew to be patient with me and answer any questions I had. I ate it up. I learned everything I could about every job on the set. I found it wonderfully interesting and very appealing. I thought people generally liked me, but little did I know they were being intimidated into it!

The director of the last season, whose name escapes me, really liked me and encouraged my creativity. At one point, he invited me to “collaborate” with him on directing a scene. He was very kind to humor me, but from what I remember, he asked how I would start it, and I said, “establishing shot over here, two singles from over there and a two shot, and then a reverse from over here...” And that’s how we mostly shot the scene; he had only one correction.
Glenn: No, I was very young and the writers certainly didn’t need any help.

Tell me about your co-star, Marcelino Sánchez.

Nan: Marcelino and I became good friends as a result of our work on the show. He was funny and made me laugh all the time. He was a very kind, talented, and giving soul. We kept in touch after the show was over. He moved to LA.
Seth: One of the most creative, funny people I have ever met, and truly beautiful inside. He was inspirational, patient; a great friend on the set. He taught me how to impersonate celebrities, but all the celebrities he taught me were women. I was blessed with blinders at a young age and saw him as the person he was, not a sexual preference. I didn’t connect the dots between things like female impersonation and his orientation until he was infected with AIDS in one of the first waves.
Glenn: I loved Marcelino very much. He was kind and giving. He became a great friend. I always thought he was so talented…even when he was in Warriors. I loved him in that movie. To this day, I often think of him.
 
photo courtesy of Seth Greenspan
How did you find out he died?

Nan: Marcelino had actually contacted me months prior to his passing to let me know that he was sick. We met and spent an entire day together while he was here in NYC, basically to say good-bye. He had a friend to whom he had given the names of some of his friends to call upon his passing to let us know. That friend was very dutiful in carrying out his wishes. I still think of Marcelino often.
Seth: When the AIDS epidemic was first being reported out of San Francisco, with a few dozen confirmed dead and hundreds more sick, we were in the middle of filming the second season. Every night, the news kept reporting on this strange “gay disease” and Marcelino became more withdrawn and seemed very concerned. Again, I made no connection. It was only months after the end of the last season when I found out. I honestly cannot recall how I found out, but part of me has the notion that he called me to tell me himself. I may be completely wrong in this, but I have that nagging feeling that’s how I learned. What’s important was not how I learned, but the sadness it instilled in me.
Glenn: I was in a supermarket and read it in a newspaper. “Warriors Star Dead at 29” or something like that. Made me so sad. I ran home to cry.

What were you paid?

Nan: I don’t remember.
Seth: Scale.
Glenn: I have no clue. When I was a child, I never even asked what I was paid. It didn’t matter to me. Maybe other kids asked; I just didn’t. I act because I love it!

Were you ever recognized in public? How often and when last? Any stories about that?

Nan: I am still, to this day, recognized by grown people with children of their own who used to watch the show when they were little kids. Yikes! It may happen four or five times a year. Sometimes on a bus, walking into a store, passing on the street, or at an event. They all seem to be very excited to see me as it brings back their fond childhood memories, I guess. Of course I feel ancient but it is still very flattering and I am happy to acknowledge and take time to talk. The last time was when I did a day player role on one of the soaps and a crew member saw me on set. He came right over and asked if I was the girl from “The Bloodhound Gang.” I couldn’t believe it. I was looking as grown-up as I possibly could and he still recognized me. Very flattering.
Seth: (see “fan mail” answer above) 
Glenn: Yeah, but way more folks recognized me once I got on One Day at a Time.

Part 3.

“The Bloodhound Gang” (“3-2-1 Contact”) cast interviews, 1 of 4

If you were a preteen in the early 1980s, you remember shows including The Electric Company, Zoom, The Great Space Coaster, and 3-2-1 Contact.

And if you remember 3-2-1 Contact, you surely remember “The Bloodhound Gang,” a series of short mysteries that may have been the most popular segment of the PBS science show. Children’s author Sid Fleischman wrote the scripts. It was live-action Scooby-Doo, without a dog.



Refresh your memory with any number of the episodes on YouTube. Then come back to learn the backstory of this beloved series with the following oral history—the first-ever interviews about the show with three of the gang:

Nan Lynn Nelson (“Vikki”)Glenn Scarpelli (“Cuff”)Seth Greenspan (“Skip”)
Kelly Pease, AKA Zach, if you’re reading this, please contact me—I’d love to add your answers!

What is “The Bloodhound Gang”?

Seth: We are, or were, a group of youth sleuths who solve crime using science. Mr. Bloodhound was our mentor, an unseen adult character whose only presence was a shadow or fleeting hat and overcoat. I played Skip in the third and fourth season, which was sadly the last.

What years did it run?

Nan: I believe the pilot and a few episodes were in 1979 and then we shot the series in ‘80 and ‘81.

How old were you when you were cast?

Nan: Too old to be playing a 16-year-old. Good genes.
Seth: Let me do the math…I’m thinking 11 and 12?
Glenn: I must have been around 12. I always played younger. I think Cuff (my character) was supposed to be 10.

Where were you living at the time?

Nan: I was married and living in the Bronx—told you, too old.
Seth: I was living in a town in central Connecticut called Cheshire. It’s about a two-hour drive to New York City, where the entire series was filmed. My mother, who was very dedicated to helping me in this unusual pursuit, would pack me into the car at 3 a.m. Monday morning and drive me to the usual 5:30 a.m. call time, and we would stay in the city, either with friends and family or in a hotel, for the week.
Glenn: Staten Island. My hometown.

What acting experience, if any, did you have before you were cast?

Nan: I was appearing on Broadway as an original cast member in Runaways by Elizabeth Swados.
Seth: School plays, but had been auditioning for a year.
Glenn: At age 9, I debuted on Broadway in Golda with Anne Bancroft and later appeared on Broadway in Richard III with Al Pacino. Around the same time that I was doing “The Bloodhound Gang,” I landed a role playing Audrey Hepburn’s son in Peter Bogdanovich’s film They All Laughed.

How did you find out about the audition?

Nan: My agent at the Fifi Oscard Agency.
Seth: My agent. At the time I had been getting regular callbacks (second time a casting agent sees you) and final callbacks (when they were going to choose) for comedies and some films, so my agent had a good feeling I had a shot.
Glenn: I had an agent and manager at the time. They set up my audition.

What did you have to do for the audition?

Nan: On-camera audition from sides from the show, but it wasn’t until the casting director and director came to see me in Runaways that I got the callback and the job.
Seth: The first audition was with a casting director or a member of the casting agency. They videotaped you reading sample scripts called “sides”—about four minutes. Often, this was the last you heard about the role until the show or movie came out. I also managed to make an interesting connection from something in the script to one of my own hobbies—magic—and showed the casting agent a few tricks I knew.

On the second [audition], I met the director, Christopher Dixon (who now is an executive on Wall Street). This time, my agent sent me a sample script to learn, so I had come in prepared. After reading the script, the casting director urged me to show a few tricks, so I spent five minutes doing a coin routine for Chris, who got a kick [out of it].

The final audition meant sitting with Nan and doing a few scenes on tape. I should explain that I was huge fan of the first two seasons of 3-2-1 Contact; I would watch the show every afternoon on the 13” black-and-white set while I did my homework. My favorite part by far was “The Bloodhound Gang.” It was like a promised dessert for finishing all your science vegetables. I even wanted secretly to be named Zach. The first time I heard the name was the second season, when the youngest detective was so named, and I just thought it the most terrific name a guy could have. So when I walked into the room and had to sit next to Nan, I was truly star struck. I don’t know if I showed her the magic tricks, too—all I remember was finding it difficult to concentrate. I mean—I was sitting with Vikki! She must have noticed that I was a little anxious, and she was not only patient, but so friendly that after a minute or two of talking with her, I was totally at ease. 
Glenn: I honestly don’t remember it. LOL.

Do you remember what your reaction was when you were cast?

Nan: Ecstatic! I was extremely happy.
Seth: My agent at the time, a wonderful woman named Nancy Carson, could not have broken the news in a better way. I think she had already spoken to my mother, who never broke in expression when I came home from school. But five minutes later, as I watched TV in the basement, the phone rang and my mom announced it was Nancy for me. “Now Seth,” she said, “you know how we always have these really close calls when it looks real promising, but then I wind up having to tell you that the part went to someone else? And that there will be other fun roles that are perfect for you coming along?” My heart sank until her voice changed from somber to joyous, as she said, “I won’t be telling you this time. You got the part!” Few feelings matched that.
Glenn: I was thrilled! I really liked the scripts. I thought they were fun. I couldn’t wait to start shooting.

Where was the series filmed?

Nan: The show was shot on location all over New York, including City Island in the Bronx. We typically stayed in Manhattan.
Seth: The series was filmed on location in New York and the area around the city, into Westchester and parts of New Jersey. It was done on 16mm film instead of videotape. This was 1981 or 1982, when location video systems were big, bulky, unreliable, and not fun to light, so they went with film instead since we were completely on location.
Glenn: New York. I believe we shot quite often in Brooklyn.

How long was a typical shoot?

Nan: For an episode, it took about a week of shooting. It was like making a mini movie every week.
Seth: We shot about a month for each season, making 20-25 episodes, each 4-5 minutes long. I would return to Cheshire on the weekends. The production was continuous for each season, for either 4 or 5 weeks total.
Glenn: We shot all the episodes I was in in a few weeks.

What was the hardest part of the job?

Nan: Nothing really. It was fun. There was one guest actress, however, who accused me of stealing her fur coat when she couldn’t find it at the end of the shoot. One of the crew had put it safely away and because she let Marcelino and I try it on earlier, having fun, she assumed I must have taken it when I left the set early for another audition. Marcelino informed me the next day. That was not fun. That was hurtful. Marcelino had my back.
Seth: Being an actor on location is all about “hurry up and wait.” The waiting was tough. You need to be there bright and early so you are in wardrobe and makeup by the time the first set is roughly lit so they can set the frame. Then you stand in your positions while they decide the action and the camera moves, and they do all the fine lighting. Then you do a few takes and finally get to act. Once the director is satisfied, it’s back to waiting while they reposition the camera and lights to take other angles of the same scene, so you step away for 15-20 minutes.

I would find ways to get myself in trouble two ways. The first way, I would wind up at the craft services table, which is basically just snacks. So I was eating way too much and gained 10 pounds each season. I wound up becoming a smoker the second season when there would be cartons of cigarettes for the crew lying around. I was bored, had no scenes, so I would steal cigarette packs and taught myself to smoke. Also taught myself some cigarette magic routines.
Glenn: Leaving it. After the first season I was cast as a regular on One Day at a Time with Bonnie Franklin, Valerie Bertinelli, and Mackenzie Phillips. I loved the people I was working with on “Bloodhound” but I had the opportunity to move onto a primetime, top 10 show. I had to do it. I was sad to say goodbye to a great group of people.

Part 2.

“Boys of Steel” 75th-anniversary-of-Superman paperback edition is out

Boys of Steel: The Creators of Superman came out in hardcover in 2008, and is still reprinted in that format. When, several years ago, I first suggested putting out a special 75th-anniversary-of-Superman edition in 2013, I was envisioning it in hardcover as well.

Random House agreed to the anniversary edition but in paperback; it sports not only the celebratory banner but also a few corrections.


My author copies arrived 5/24/13, AKA a week before June, which marks the cover date of Action Comics #1 (1938) and the release of the latest screen iteration of Superman, Man of Steel, not to mention my friend Brad Ricca’s exhaustively researched book Super Boys .

The summer of Superman is in full force...again.

Jerry Robinson previously unpublished interview, 6/9/06; part 3 of 3

Part 2. 

Where did [Bill Finger] do his research?

We’d go to the library. We’d go to the newsstands. Movies. Park. Everywhere.

Did he carry with him a notebook and a pen and jot things down in movies and places like that?

I don’t remember him doing that. I think he would clip things in that extensive clip file when he read things. Anything that he thought might be useful.

He clipped out things from magazines?

Yeah.

But he wasn’t jotting things down all the time?
 
I don’t remember him doing that. But he had a great memory so he probably didn’t have to.
 
[asked about the two blizzard stories that were similar enough to seem like the same event, yet still different: one in Batman and Me, one in Men of Tomorrow; Jerry’s response (part verbatim, part paraphrased): “Bob was full of crap” (laughs); he probably read that, that’s what he did all the time—read a story, adapt it as his own, “I never heard that story before”; Jerry mentioned the “preposterous” interview Bob gave to Jerry Bails where he said Bill Finger didn’t create anything—anyone who would say that is capable of anything; “I’m probably the one who gives Bob more credit than anybody”; I asked Jerry about the sketches dated 1/17/34 and how Gerard Jones said they were fabricated; Jerry agreed and said another Bob lie was that he said he went to anatomy classes] 

There’s this convention in 1965 where Bill first publicly spoke about his involvement. Were you there?

I don’t remember if I was there or not.

There was a panel that you were not on, but maybe you were there.

I might’ve been there, but I don’t have any specific memory now.

Did you ever go to a convention with Bill after that?

I can’t remember ever doing that.

So you never got to see Bill interact with fans?

If I was at that one, I might have, but I don’t remember generally, no.

Was he funny in person?

He could be. We joked a lot.

But was it a defining characteristic of him in person?

I wouldn’t say defining.

Did you ever play golf with him?

No.

Or tennis?

I don’t know that he played tennis. If he played tennis, I’m surprised I wouldn’t have [played with him], because my thing was tennis. 

Was he already married when you met him?

No.

Did you guys ever go try to pick up girls together?

No, I think early on he fell in love with Portia. I don’t know where they met, actually, being she was way up there till she came to New York. I think pretty early on, because I was still on Batman in this instance where I told you when he stopped and called Portia. [After he?] married, I don’t know that he ever fooled around. Not to my knowledge.

Sorry, I wasn’t implying that. I just thought if he wasn’t already married…

No, I understood what you said. I think he very deeply loved Portia. She was a fighter, she would call me and rail against the injustice done by Bob. She hated it.

When did they divorce?

I don’t know when they divorced. I wasn’t in touch with them at that time. And when I did find out and talk to Portia, I was very surprised.

Because you never saw signs of that?

No.

[asked him about comment he made in Comics Journal that Joe Shuster did marry at one point]

In his later life, yeah. At the end of his life, the last few years. Married in California.

But then divorced because I think he was a bachelor when he died?

Were you in touch with him at that time?

I was in touch with him but I didn’t meet her. Jerry and his wife knew her very well.

Do you know how long Joe was married?

Not exactly, but it wasn’t too long. [unintelligible] …few years. 

Do you know what Bill thought of Jerry and Joe going after the rights to Superman?

I don’t remember discussing it with him specifically, but I can’t imagine he would be other than supportive or happy about it.

Do you think it ever gave him a kick to try to do that himself, get some rights to Batman?

He might’ve entertained it, but I think he was so beaten down, and without resources, and without any seeming legal avenue to do it, he probably never thought seriously.

Were you in touch with Bill up until his death?

Sporadically. He would visit here. For a while, I was sharing an apartment with another writer, just before I got married. And he collaborated with him on various things. Mostly for television, I believe. And so they would write up here in my apartment and I would see him then. And then on a few other occasions. I’ll tell you something but it’s not for print.

Okay.

[redacted]

Do you remember how you heard that Bill had died?

I don’t know if I read it or somebody called me, I’m not sure.

Were you at his funeral?

No, I never knew that there was one. Usually, DC has a service, but they never had one for him. They had one for Siegel and Shuster and I attended each one.

Where were their funerals, by the way?

I don’t know if they had a public funeral as such, but we had a special service at DC.

For both of them?

Not together, each one.

Do you know where Bill is buried?

No, I don’t know that, either. It may be that nobody survives who does know. That’s possible.

[I say that Freddie’s friends might know but I don’t how to find them…though eventually, I did find some; Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman reveals what happened to Bill after he died...he was not buried...]

I never knew the service for Portia. I was never called. And I knew I was one of the closest friends.

You weren’t called when she passed away?

[inaudible no]

If you were doing this book [on Bill] yourself, who would be the main players?

The editors at DC and some other editors. But on a personal level he might have had some other friends I don’t know of, some school friends. Portia. His son. [something including “myself” and “Bob”] …the editors at DC we dealt with, mostly [Mort] Weisinger and [Jack] Schiff.

…

[Bill] created most everything for [Bob]. He definitely was a full co-creator. I think he had more to do with the molding of Batman than Bob. He just did so many things at the beginning. As an artist, I can appreciate what goes into that. Aside from creating almost all the other characters, creating the whole persona, the whole temper, the history, origin of Batman. Everything. It made it a success from the beginning.

Anything in particular about Bill that you think kids would find interesting?

[unintelligible] …how widely read he was and how he would absorb everything and you never know how something he read would turn up in the feature. He was very hard-working. [unintelligible] …one of the best writers in the business, certainly at that time. … As you probably know, it came hard for him. He was always late in deadlines. Maybe some of his personal life interfered with that as well, but I know a lot of times it was due to his painstaking work, that he wouldn’t hand it in until he was satisfied with it. And they would never appreciate the time and effort he put in, even though they were benefiting from it and it made the feature so great. But he couldn’t help himself. He would slave over it. He was not a natural writer in the sense that it would pour out.

How did he influence you?

In many ways. I was an aspiring writer myself at that time. That’s what I intended to be. Fortunately, as my career went I was able to do a lot of writing. So his approaches and inventiveness, his creativity, humor, I appreciated his injection of that to humanize the strip and Batman. His idea of introducing Robin to humanize Batman enlarged the plot potential, the parameters of the strip. I think a lot of his reading went into the creation some of the great villains that he molded, like the Penguin, the Riddler.

Anything else about Bill that I didn’t cover?

He suffered a lot. And that’s sad. He didn’t deserve it. He was a very fine guy and a very fine writer and a good friend. 

What I’d like to do is, I mean, you’re the legacy, and if this gets together, I’d like to show you what I wrote. It’ll be as short as what you read, the Boys of Steel book. (laughs) It won’t take much of your time. I’d welcome all your feedback.

Yeah, I’d appreciate it before it’s published.

[NOTE: Sadly, Jerry died in December 2011, six months before the book came out.]

Jerry Robinson previously unpublished interview, 6/9/06; part 2 of 3

Part 1.

When was the first time you guys started to feel like celebrities? Was that a feeling back then or not quite that early?

No, not generally. The only time I felt like a celebrity was back in my home town. A local celebrity.

Can you think of any anecdotes about Bill that you haven’t told anybody else? Something that gives a little bit of texture to him, like a joke that he made or something that he once did that made a big influence on the strip?

If something pops to my head, I’ll tell you.

Did you know his parents?

No.

Did he ever talk about them?

Not very much.

And he didn’t have siblings, right?

No, not that I know of. 

[NOTE: turns out he did]

Did you know Freddie?

I knew him when he was a baby. He was a, you know, uh…he was a…Batman was long gone—Bill was long gone before he grew up to know anything about it.

[NOTE: Jerry’s timeline was off. Bill died in 1974, the year Fred turned 26.]

You mean before Freddie knew what was going on?

Yeah.

So you never saw Freddie as an adult?

No. I may have once. I was trying to think of that the other day. I know I spoke to Portia about him several times. I can’t remember meeting him. If I did, it wasn’t very much.

Do you remember Bill talking about him?

Only as a child, when he was young.

Was Freddie born while you guys were already working on Batman?

No, I think he was born later, as I recall? At least it might have been after I had left Batman, not Bill.

And what year did you leave?

I left about ‘47.

Was Judaism important to Bill?

Not that I recall.

Do you know what his inspiration was for his oversized props? You drew oversized villains on the covers. I was wondering if that might have influenced him or he influenced you?

I also drew oversized props. I haven’t thought of where that began. I know I used them in my covers ‘cause I tried to do very symbolic covers and splash pages if you ever looked at them. I never tried to do a literal theme.

So you don’t remember where you guys—

[unintelligible] track it down. I know he had employed them in his scripts. I would hesitate to take credit for them, but who knows, I might have done [here?] without even thinking of it, [thinking?] of doing a symbolic cover, you know, obviously has part of the symbolism.

Did you guys ever have a moment where you felt, to use a modern word, “cool”—like if you were on the street and you saw some kids eagerly buying a Batman comic?

Yeah, I would say that might have occurred. I [could] remember that, yes. It’s kind of marveling that it was so part our culture already.

Do you have a specific incident in mind?

Not with Bill… [tells the Cuba story that’s also in one of his Alter Ego interviews]

What did Bill look like?

[NOTE: At the time of this interview, I’d seen only the two regularly republished photos of Bill, neither of which was an especially clear likeness; I went on to uncover close to a dozen others.]

He was not tall. I’m not tall either but I think he might’ve been a little shorter than me. I was like five eight 5’8” or something. I think he was [slightly?] shorter. He was a little stocky—not heavy. Strong. As you probably know, he loved golf.

Was he balding?

Not at that time.

But later?

Later he was.

Did he have a certain style?

No, I don’t think he was that concerned with fashion. I think it was just everyday stuff.

What did his workspace look like?

He worked in his apartment. The times that I visited he and Portia there, it was just a part of the living room, but he may have had a study, I’m trying to remember now, with files. I think he did, because he had extensive files.

In filing cabinets?

Yeah.

And back then they were probably wood, right?

I would guess. Although we had steel files then [too]. We’re not talking about prehistoric times. (we both laugh)

Part 3.

Jerry Robinson previously unpublished interview, 6/9/06; part 1 of 3

In 2006, I had the privilege of interviewing Jerry Robinson, one of the earliest ghost artists on Batman and a true class act, in my research for Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman.

I ended speaking with him multiple more times, including once at his New York City apartment, which was chockablock with priceless Golden Age art and other mementos.

Most if not all of the numerous interviews I conducted for the book contain gems that did not make it into the book, so here is my chance to share them nonetheless. This one (which I transcribed from a recording) is edited slightly. Upon rereading it, I am surprised how much info it contains that I had not—and still have not—read elsewhere.

How did you meet Bill Finger?

I met Bill Finger I think at the first time at Bob’s apartment when I first joined the team. He introduced me to Bill when I joined Batman. It was only a couple of months after it started.

Did you get a different impression from him than you did from Bob?

They were definitely different personalities.

How would you describe Bill’s personality?

Bill seemed very soft, kind. Not outgoing. Reserved but very easy to get to know. He wasn’t standoffish…

Did you become friends?

We became fast friends. He actually became my I say cultural mentor. … Remember, I was a 17-year-old kid. Just graduated high school. I knew nothing of New York. I was still going to Columbia, studying journalism, and commuting from my little room in the Bronx. Bill introduced me to everything in New York. Museums, galleries, movies. I soaked everything up like a sponge. I was fortunate that we hit it off. Personally, I think we each appreciated each other’s contributions.

Do you remember what you talked about besides the work?

Everything. Bill was widely read. He also was interested in everything, as I was, in learning everything. And he had very good taste. I don’t know how he was introduced to all these things himself, but he certainly knew them. [unintelligible] …the Metropolitan, MOMA, and foreign films, and other talks and things around town. The galleries.

Did you ever meet his friends that were not in the industry?

That’s a good question. I don’t remember. I knew his wife very well.

Is that Portia?

[unintelligible but affirmative] When he was first courting Portia, I think she came from Rochester was it? Or Albany? You probably know… [unintelligible] Before I met her, he was going with her … I remember several occasions where we’d be going out for lunch or dinner and he’d stop and say “I’ve gotta call Portia.” He’d get in the phone booth. At that time, they had the Superman-type phone booths. I’d stand and wait for him. He had endless conversations with Portia on the phone.

Was she interested in his work?

Yes. She knew what he was doing intimately. They were very close. She was a very intelligent gal. Once she came to New York they were married. They were both friends. I would go out to dinner with them, just the three of us.

Was she more dominant or more outgoing than he was?

I guess maybe in those terms, somewhat. She wasn’t [unintelligible]. She was very articulate and expressive.

What did she think of his work schedule? He was working late into the night.

We all did. (laughs)

So she just accepted it.

Yeah, I’d say so. [goes on in mumble about how some writers were night owls, some morning people]

Was Bill allowed to tell people that he was writing Batman?

They couldn’t stop him from talking to anybody. I think any of us knew…well, of course I knew. His name wasn’t on the feature, obviously.

If his name wasn’t on the feature and he said he wrote it, would people be suspicious?

I don’t think so. I don’t think anybody would just make that up. [unintelligible] They knew every strip wasn’t done just by the author, or the artist signed his name in many cases.

What was Bill proud of?

I think he was proud of his work. He was a very careful craftsman. He was proud of his creation. All of us were. I think that was part of the tragedy of Bill, as it was Siegel and Shuster, that they weren’t credited with their genius.

Do you think that shows a lack of business savvy on Bill’s part or did he just accept that that’s how things were?

Well, he was naïve, as most of us were. If we knew then what we know now, it’d be a different story. I might be head of Warner Bros. We were dealing with very wise publishers who had dealt with artists and contracts before. Some of these cases [were] the first thing they ever sold. It was the beginning of the industry.

Did Bill ever originate a character without an artist?

He wrote many television scripts, and I think even a couple of movie scripts.

That was later in his career, right?

Yes. He worked for a lot of publishers so I’m sure he had a hand in creating a lot of the characters.

[I mention Green Lantern, Wildcat, and he says he doesn’t know others besides those I mentioned]

Do you know if Bill read any fan mail?

I don’t think we were privy to it. I don’t they generally showed us the fan mail. We knew it was popular in sales and so forth, but that wasn’t gotten into until later. [mentions Stan Lee developing rapport with readers]

Would you describe Bill as one of the guys? If you ever went out with a group, was he chummy and social and making jokes?

The apartment I shared with Mort Meskin and, before he left to the army, Bernie Klein, it was kind of the hangout for [contributors who were near?] DC. Bill would be a frequent visitor. I think I have a, one of the books you have, you know, where people who visit draw a cartoon or…

Like a guest book?

Yeah. And there were usually crazy drawings or serious or whatever. And the old girlfriends would write in it.

You have it still?

I have [something, yeah?].

So Bill’s writing is in it?

I’m pretty sure he’s there saying, uh…we [sounds like “found” but might be “had”] a dart board on the wall. I remember that was a pastime for everybody. We challenged…in darts. I think Bill wrote something that was like “Damn it, Jerry, beat me again.”

[NOTE: Bill’s page is reproduced in Bill the Boy Wonder…and the original suffered a sad fate.]

Would you shoot around Batman ideas while you were playing darts?

We would always be…you know, if [we weren’t on another topic?], we would do it in social [situations with?] other artists around, unless we were talking about comics. But Bill and I, and sometimes we were with Bob, we would always be kicking around ideas. We used to live, breathe, eat, and sleep Batman. [Wild age to be in?]

Part 2.

Superman’s many dads

Superman has had many dads, the most recent of which are these two:

Entertainment Weekly
 …but my favorites are the first two:


Hopefully by now you know their names as effortlessly as the names of the top two.

I tried to reach Jerry Siegel

In 1994, I set out to write a screenplay about Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. Joe had died in 1992, but Jerry was still alive. I asked Dennis Dooley if he knew how I could contact Jerry.

Dennis was one of the two editors of Superman at Fifty!: The Persistence of a Legend! (1987), and also wrote the first (and, to me, best) of the sixteen essays in the book, “The Man of Tomorrow and the Boys of Yesterday” (an earlier version of which appeared in the 6/73 issue of Cleveland Magazine). 

A few observations about the book:
It was published by Octavia Press of Cleveland, which does not seem to be around anymore. Though Superman is a Cleveland story, I imagine the reason Octavia published the book is because no well-known publishers wanted to. The cover is static and amateurish. This book was unofficially in honor of Superman’s 50th anniversary. Today, any such book would have a far more dynamic cover design. The headline also seems dated. Today, the headline would be something mouthier and more specific like “The History, Culture, and Influence of the Man of Steel, the World’s First and Greatest Superhero.”Harlan Ellison contributed an essay in which he wrote that there were five characters whom everyone on the planet knew: Mickey Mouse, Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan, Robin Hood, and Superman.
I don’t remember how I found Dennis, but this was pre-Internet, so it probably involved the phone book.

His response was both kind and disappointing:


The me of now would not have let such a letter deter me, but the men of then decided to abandon the Jerry and Joe project. A decade later, however, I revived it—that time, as a picture book. The Boys of Yesterday were now the...



But alas, by then, Jerry, too, was no longer around to see it.

Boys of Steel with "Boys of Steel"

In honor of today's opening of Man of Steel, the first live-action Superman movie since Boys of Steel: The Creators of Superman came out, I was thrilled to introduce the book to not one, not two, but three people who have portrayed Superman as a child in a feature film.

So just like the post title says, it's Boys of Steel meet Boys of Steel:

Aaron Smolinski, toddler Superman in Superman: The Movie (1978); I interviewed him in 2009
 Cruz and Ryder Colgan, baby Superman in Man of Steel (2013); 
I will interview them in approximately 2019
Here are all three in a younger day:
  Aaron
 Colgan twins (of steel)
The first two photos in this post were taken on 6/13/13. Thank you again to Aaron and Candice (the twins' mom) for your willingness to take and send them.

Bobbuster

How Ty Templeton signed a copy of Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman:


Used with permission. (Ty’s, not Bob’s.)