Fifty Shades of Grey
discussion
dont like it ..dont read it
The fact that your expressing your hate for this book is only giving this book more hype and getting people more interested to see why you hated and why other people love it. Congrats.
B3cs wrote: "Is there anyone on this thread who loved the books that would not see it if it had an X rating? Just curious."I'm not sure I will see it even if it is rated R. I sometimes hate when they try to make books into movies. It is rare that a movie can do it justice.
Twilight was a perfect example. I think the movies actually made the books look worse or even ridiculous. While I liked the books before, I was not happy with the results of the movies.
The one movie I really loved after the book was Kiera Knightly's version of Pride and Prejudice.
Bee everyone is entitled to their opinions , and most people here are offering valid reasons why they didn't like the books
Bee wrote: "The fact that your expressing your hate for this book is only giving this book more hype and getting people more interested to see why you hated and why other people love it. Congrats."I don't think anyone here has suggested people shouldn't read it. We are discussing it because of the hype. Personally, I don't care if this discussion gets more people interested in the book. More people reading it, more people to discuss it with, it's all for the good! :)
hell we've all been followin this thread for a while so it feels like we are pretty comfortable with each other thats been posting for a while and we are all being fairly friendly except for a few here and there and i agree like i said earlier i may not like these books but if it gets more ppl reading then good :) we need more readers out there :)
Ellie wrote: "Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Mr. G as a demented crazed woman beater. Mr.G was an abused child who suffered under a drug enduced mother and her pimp then became a victim of Mrs. Robinson. This ..."I didn't see him that way either Ellie. He was definitely controlling though... and I mean to a pathological degree. His controlling behaviors would have sent me packing more than any of his other.
With Ana, I found him "careful", "protective". Not abusive. The spanking was used to keep her in CONTROL. But I did not get the abusive vibe from him... until the belt incident, which I felt she almost instigated, and which quickly ended the whole thing. I think it quickly opened her eyes to the level of damage that he had sustained.
Synesthesia wrote: "I don't care if there's sex in it. I'm more annoyed over bad writing and yet another book encouraging women to run off with jerks.I refuse to read it."
exactly! I knew there was sex in it, that's why I read it. but there was no plot other than them negotiating the sex. It was not a good read.
I don't feel that FSOG attempts, in any way to misrepresent or make light of child abuse. Am I misunderstanding the conversation? I have not read any books by Anne Rice, but I'm sure they would not hold up well under a microscope of morality, either. These are just books; fiction created for fun and escape.
There are elements in almost any book that can be considered emotional triggers. Books on rape, abuse, violence, etc. If a reader finds a certain topic offensive i feel they should avoid it. What entertains one is not expected to entertain all. But it's just a book. Not a guide to healthy relationships. I understand it's not for everyone, but no one is in the wrong or less humane for liking or not liking it.
Kris my concern was with Elli's comments that were made about missing the point about Christian Grey's childhood abuse, seeing abuse through "Rose coloured glasses" and asking whether we "cast children aside" who have experienced these traumas.My answer to those question is No! ansolutely not- who would?
I wanted to emphasize that I have not missed this point in the book, and that it doesn't make me less sympathetic to child abuse just because I do not like the character of Christian Grey.
B3cs wrote: "Kris my concern was with Elli's comments that were made about missing the point about Christian Grey's childhood abuse, seeing abuse through "Rose coloured glasses" and asking whether we "cast chil..."Oh ok, gotcha! I must have missed that one bc I couldn't quite put the pieces together.
Absolutely agreed, I don't think that's a fair insinuation at all. There are so many obvious reasons why many readers would dislike Christian's character. Like I said, I'd run for the hills if someone with those intentions came into my life...
Here's a question that should be fun seeing everyone's answer:
- If you had to describe FSOG using only two words, what would they be??
Mine are: Silly and Fun. Join in!! ;)
B3cs wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Mr. G as a demented crazed woman beater. Mr.G was an abused child who suffered under a drug enduced mother and her pimp then became a victim of Mrs. R..."Thank you for your comments. You did miss my point. I am not excusing or condoning his behavior. I am merely explaining his reasons for this lifestyle. The book is fiction and James wanted a happy conclusion that would make the reader feel good after the roller coaster ride of emotions. I felt for Mr. G as I'm sure you do for children who suffer this horrible existence. Since this was fiction, can you imagine his real father was a wealthy brilliant industrialist who paid Mr. G's birth mother to have sex.She needed the money for her drug habit and ended up getting knocked up with Christian. Perhaps Mr. G inherited his father's brilliance in business, ergo his early success. It's a possibility and also something I made up. :)
Ellie wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Mr. G as a demented crazed woman beater. Mr.G was an abused child who suffered under a drug enduced mother and her pimp then became a vic..."Thankyou Eliie for clearing things up. :)
Kris wrote: "- If you had to describe FSOG using only two words, what would they be?? ."I think my two words would be: control and liberation.
Kris wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Kris my concern was with Elli's comments that were made about missing the point about Christian Grey's childhood abuse, seeing abuse through "Rose coloured glasses" and asking whether ..."Kris, my two words would be enjoyable fiction. I've never been one to look at the world through rose coloured glasses. I'm a realist and have always questioned everything. (the nuns I had for 12 years didn't appreciate it too much. I love debate! :)
and to kris i garentee anne rices book (claiming of sleeping beauty) wouldnt hold up under a microscope....im one to make comments about how i disliked this book...id LOVE to read everyones hate on those books because they were down right dirty lol but i liked them...only because ive read Anne Rices other books and like her as an author but yea those were down right every page erotica...and im sure some would complain how she ruined a perfectly good childrens story and made it sexual hmmm i think im gonna go see if anyone has some threads on those books :) id love to see others opinons on it good and bad
yea....lots of BDSM hate on the Anne Rice claiming of sleeping beauty thread...i love it :)
Karen wrote: "The one movie I really loved after the book was Kiera Knightly's version of Pride and Prejudice. "I loved this version as well, but it was torn to shreds by many who felt it was too gritty for Jane Austen. Those were interesting debates. ;0)
I was tempted to read the claiming of sleeping beauty, but from what ive heard, I'm kind of scared! Lol I'm sure she's a great writer, tho, bc I've seen so many people commenting on her style.
Kris wrote: "I was tempted to read the claiming of sleeping beauty, but from what ive heard, I'm kind of scared! Lol I'm sure she's a great writer, tho, bc I've seen so many people commenting on her style."i liked her vampire books, i went to a bookstore and some random woman came up to me (didnt even work there) handed me the first book the Beauty series and was like read it...so i stood there lookin at the book half naked girl on it and was like wow i think i was 18 at the time i looked at my bf and was like OMG took it home read it and yea it was the first Erotica i ever read
Julia wrote: "exactly! I knew there was sex in it, that's why I read it. but there was no plot other than them negotiating the sex. It was not a good read. "There most certainly was a plot. Plot: the arrangement of ideas and/or incidents that make up a story. Girl meets boy. Boy likes girl and vice versa. Girl and boy begin relationship. Relationship is rocky because of past issues. Third party puts crimp in relationship, etc. You may not like the plot, but the plot is there.
Jenna wrote: "Kris wrote: "I was tempted to read the claiming of sleeping beauty, but from what ive heard, I'm kind of scared! Lol I'm sure she's a great writer, tho, bc I've seen so many people commenting on he..."That's funny! You were probably in shock while reading- that's a crazy book to have as a first erotic read! I'm still nervous to read them. Are they dark? I don't mind dark stories, I just want to know what I'm in for if I decide to give it a try.
Jenna wrote: "who said delusional?"i dont know somebody it made me mad
Ellie wrote: "Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Mr. G as a demented crazed woman beater. Mr.G was an abused child who suffered under a drug enduced mother and her pimp then became a victim of Mrs. Robinson. This ..."thank you i agree with that too
its been a long time since ive read them but i remember i couldnt believe some of the things i was reading...and how dirty they were...they def make Christian grey seem tame but it was cool to read a fairytale in a different way then what u grew up knowing it to be i read them back in 05 so i remeber bits an pieces of it...hmm i might even need to re read it lol
Kris wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Kris wrote: "I was tempted to read the claiming of sleeping beauty, but from what ive heard, I'm kind of scared! Lol I'm sure she's a great writer, tho, bc I've seen so many people co..."I read them Kris, They are dark. Not my thing. My husband liked them, but I did not. I did however love her vampire books. She is very descriptive as a writer, almost to a fault. Her Beauty books disturbed me a little, and I'm not easily disturbed.
Just saying, someone else may have a different opinion. I read them when I was younger, maybe 20 years ago.
and yea i was in shock when i was reading it but i remember i was glued to it and couldnt put it down
Karen wrote: "I read them Kris, They are dark. Not my thing. My husband liked them, but I did not. I did however love her vampire books. She is very descriptive as a writer, almost to a fault. Her Beauty books disturbed me a little, and I'm not easily disturbed.Just saying, someone else may have a different opinion. I read them when I was younger, maybe 20 years ago.
."
I have read most of Anne Rice's books (all of the vampire and witch books). Most were good. A couple were tedious. I have not read her Anne Rampling books though. One of these days...
Karen wrote: "Kris wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Kris wrote: "I was tempted to read the claiming of sleeping beauty, but from what ive heard, I'm kind of scared! Lol I'm sure she's a great writer, tho, bc I've seen so m..."i agree with ya it def is an aquired taste for those books not ment for everyone
Thanks girls, maybe I'll try sometime. They intimidate me, for reasons such as you've explained, Karen. I may have to work my way up to it. I feel like a total wuss, but I can't get my self to read Captive in the Dark, either, tho so many loved it. So much darkness!
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26...if you have an ereader i might be able to get them for ya thru someone in my book club if u did decided u wanted to try them and not waste ur money and im more then willing to share any of my other ebooks with anyone if they'd like to read them
B3cs wrote: "Kris my concern was with Elli's comments that were made about missing the point about Christian Grey's childhood abuse, seeing abuse through "Rose coloured glasses" and asking whether we "cast chil..."I loved all 3 books and Christian Grey. I felt empathy for him for not receiving the love and affection from his birth mother up to the age of 4, being abused by at least 1 of her boyfriends and not protected yet again by his mother, being locked up in an apartment with her dead body for days (feeling her body go cold) without anyone to help him, and being placed in foster care with a family that may have contributed to his issues as well, considering Jack exemplified similar behavior with women. Once he was removed from all of the above situations, he was then molested by his mother's friend. Who by the way introduced him to the "Rough Sex" as she was an older married, sex deprived, woman. That was his first sexual experience. That was all he knew. There was NO love involved just hard core sex. That is what Mrs. Robinson taught him. He was a man having sex with women without any emotion, only pleasure...Until he met and fell in love with Ana. She was pure, did not want or care about his wealth or status, and wanted nothing from him but "him", this man who from the outside had it all, but was broken in fifty thousand pieces on the inside. I agree with Ellie.
Jenna wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26...if you have an ereader i might be able to get them for ya thru someone in my book club if u did decided u wanted to try th..."
Thanks, Jenna, that's so nice of you. I use a Nook, although I'm pretty certain a friend of mine would have them- total erotica freak. She's read just about everything in the genre. They'll no doubt be paperback, but I don't mind bc i really miss the 'paperback' smell lol. But I appreciate the offer :)
yea i have a nook as well, id be lost with out mine :) and no problem
OK...arguing on another thread where they are discussing age restrictions on FSOG. I basically said that I did not believe in age restrictions because maturity should be the prevailing factor in whether or not to let a teen read a book. When I was 11, the librarian refused to let me check out "Of Mice and Men." I had already seen the movie and wanted to read the book. I called my mother over to the checkout counter and she told the librarian I could read whatever I wanted and if she did not let me check it out, my mother would check it out for me. I began reading when I was 3. By 11, I was already reading Austen, Fitzgerald, Steinbeck, etc. Thoughts? Chronological age or maturity?
Mary wrote: "OK...arguing on another thread where they are discussing age restrictions on FSOG. I basically said that I did not believe in age restrictions because maturity should be the prevailing factor in w..."It's a hard call on a book like this. I tend to go more with maturity.
Although I was not reading at 3 I was reading adult books by the the time I was 10-11. Stephen King, Virginia Andrews, James Herbert and Jean Auel are all authors I had read before the age of 14 and many of them had some level of violence and sex.
I was also lucky that I was brought up in a household where books were fairly unrestricted. That may seem to some like my parents were over permissive, and I remember my mother being questioned once by another parent about some of the books I was allowed to read. But my Mother had often read the book herself, or would read it after me and then ask me if I had any questions about it. I think this makes a difference, in some ways it was supervised reading.
In our house sex and puberty were discussed with us regularly and maturely from a young age, our questions were answered honestly, my Mum thought that authors like Judy Blume, allowed children to get a better understanding of teenage issues that may not be addressed in the home environment. I think she probably felt the same about most books, the important thing was that we should ask her or Dad questions if there was anything we didn't understand.
Fifty shades is definitely more explicit than anything we had in our bookshelves as kids, but probably only in frequency of scenes rather than content. I remember some pretty racey scenes in Clan of the Cave Bear series.
But I have to say, that as a parent I don't know how I would feel about my daughter reading 50 shades when she was a teen. I'm in two minds on this one.
Mary wrote: "OK...arguing on another thread where they are discussing age restrictions on FSOG. I basically said that I did not believe in age restrictions because maturity should be the prevailing factor in w..."Great point Mary. And just to add when we think we are shielding our kids from sex and violence, usually we are kidding ourselves. My two teens are very open with me, and they have frequently shocked me with their level of knowledge and exposure to these topics.
I'm just glad we have the type of relationship to discuss these things openly.
B3cs wrote: "But I have to say, that as a parent I don't know how I would feel about my daughter reading 50 shades when she was a teen. I'm in two minds on this one. ."Knowing my daughters, I really do not think they would have wanted to read these books in their teens. If they had wanted to read them, we would have had a serious discussion first with me highlighting the things about the books they might find disturbing. If they still had wanted to read them, I would have let them and then we would have had an in-depth book discussion afterwards. Showing a marked interest is a sign that they may be ready for it. It is also a sign that they may read them without my knowledge were I to forbid it (I have never forbidden a book btw). I would much rather KNOW what my kids were reading so I could put some perspective to it.
My parents were obviously very open. My mother always said that if I were not ready for a book, I would put it down. I think she was right. The only book that ever scarred me for life was "Helter Skelter."
My daughter is two years old, and what you ladies have explained is the exact relationship I pray to have with her. I can not think of anything better than having your children feel completely comfortable trusting you with their issues/problems/secrets, and knowing your not there to judge, but to guide.I am uncertain if I'd be thrilled over my teen reading FSOG, (yikes!) but then again, I don't think it would be my choice...It's so easy to obtain books now outside of the local library.
def a maturity level thing, I think u do more harm by sheltering ur child just because when they finaly get that little bit of freedom they go crazy....So if your kids are down to earth and have a good head on there sholders and knows right from wrong, i dont see it being a problem. I remember reading books on teens having sex for the first time and gettin pregnant when i was in middle school. so yea it should be based on the indviduals maturity level not age....hell my bf is 24 years old and i dont think hes mature enough to read FSoG lol
Mary wrote: "B3cs wrote: "But I have to say, that as a parent I don't know how I would feel about my daughter reading 50 shades when she was a teen. I'm in two minds on this one. ."Knowing my daughters, I rea..."
Yes I think that sounds like a good approach. thank goodness I don't have to manage that yet. We read Enid Blyton, Mem Fox, Dr Seuss etc etc.
But I am a bit worried about your Helter Skelter comment, I downloaded that as an audiobook recently and it is on my shortlist to read - I should say listen!
Mary wrote: "B3cs wrote: "But I have to say, that as a parent I don't know how I would feel about my daughter reading 50 shades when she was a teen. I'm in two minds on this one. ."Knowing my daughters, I rea..."
Mary-- I'm right there with you with "Helter Skelter"!! Fascinating, but so disturbing it completely freaked me out.
lol that came off wrong, the books i read the girls got pregnant and i read them when i was in middle school that sounded like i ment i got pregnant in middle school lol
Jenna wrote: "lol that came off wrong, the books i read the girls got pregnant and i read them when i was in middle school that sounded like i ment i got pregnant in middle school lol"Haha...I did a re-read on that one, but knew what u meant :)
Kris wrote: "Mary wrote: "B3cs wrote: "But I have to say, that as a parent I don't know how I would feel about my daughter reading 50 shades when she was a teen. I'm in two minds on this one. ."Knowing my dau..."
Now I'm really scared! LOL
I agree with the maturity level. I also agree that a parent should set the stage very early for openness with their children about uncomfortable issues. I began discussing sexual issues with my children at a very early age. The discussions were age appropriate (i.e., where do babies come from - mothers have eggs in their ovaries and fathers have sperm in their testicles. Together they create a baby which grows in the uterus for 9 months). As they get older, you can be more explicit in explanations. I always "taught" them until their eyes began to glaze over. Then I knew we were through for the time being.
B3cs wrote: "But I am a bit worried about your Helter Skelter comment, I downloaded that as an audiobook recently and it is on my shortlist to read - I should say listen! "You might not find it disturbing. I think what creeped me out the most was it is true!!! I was actually about 16 when I read it, so I wasn't that young. I am a pretty logical person and can usually use this to reason with other people. Sociopaths cannot be reasoned with and I think that scared me more than anything else.
Kris wrote: "Mary-- I'm right there with you with "Helter Skelter"!! Fascinating, but so disturbing it completely freaked me out. "**Shudder** I could not listen to the Beatles White Album for about 10 years!
Mary wrote: "I agree with the maturity level. I also agree that a parent should set the stage very early for openness with their children about uncomfortable issues. I began discussing sexual issues with my c..."Haha that was what my Mum was like. I used to complain that she had told it to me already. :D
I think it really is great to be open with your children at a level that they can understand. I also hope that I can foster that type of relationship with my children.
We were also given books like Where Did I Come From? that we were encouraged to read and then ask questions.
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With all due respect Ellie. James may have used childhood abuse as an explantation for Grey's behaviour, but it does not excuse it. It is not the BDSM that is necessarily the issue, yes he got permission from his subs, it is the other innapropriate controlling behaviours that many find offensive.
As a professional who works with children on a day to day basis I unfortunately come across abuse situations regularly, it is very common and I usually have atleast one child per year that is either under protective services, or I have to report to protective services. So I don't believe that I am one to see abuse through "Rose coloured glasses" I can honestly say that I have seen first hand just how damaging any abuse/neglect can be to a child and family. So I find your comments somewhat upsetting that somehow people who have negative comments about Grey have missed the point about child abuse.
And, a child that experiences the type of abuse and neglect that Grey did, is extremely unlikely to grow up as a billionaire business tycoon, the damage that that type of abuse does to a under 5 year old, will most probably leave long lasting learning difficulties that will damage them for the rest of their lives.
I know that this is a fantasy novel, but I do not appreciate the assumption that myself and others don't take child abuse seriously, and have missed the point.
I hope I was wrong in my interpretation of your comments.