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Would you buy 'Book One' before a sequel has been published?
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Interesting discussion actually.It's not something I would consider to be honest, though your post has made me a bit paranoid now.
It is definitely something to think about, that I hadn't. Personally right now, I am doing exactly what you said. Shopping around book 1 of a trilogy, that I may end up self publishing. One thing I have noticed as a reader, in Self publishing the sequels come out faster, or at least so it seems.
We usually have at least a year between books for traditionally published series. If not more.
Look at release dates for G R R Martin, Diana Gabaldon, etc. The wait can be agony as a reader. L J Smith has a night world series that the fans have been waiting for the final book for probably at least 10 years.
So as a reader, no it doesn't scare me off. I am annoyingly accustomed to waiting forever for the continuations.
I personally use my blog to inform my readers how far along a sequel is.Keeps them informed, which is an important part of an indies marketing, and not a hard thing to do.
Right now "Underworld" is 48,279 words, and aiming for a January 2013 release.
Will I hit my minimum 120,000 word count and the release date...who knows, but I'm sure going to try.
Harrison wrote: "I personally use my blog to inform my readers how far along a sequel is. [...] Right now "Underworld" is 48,279 words, and aiming for a January 2013 release..."Interesting... I see Underworld already has a Goodreads book page as a 'work in progress'. I've not seen that before.
You could look at it the other way. If no-one buys books one then book two might never see the light of day.I have to say I think it's important in any series of books that each book is also able to stand alone and be entertaining in its own right. Whilst the rest of the series should add to that enjoyment, any book which does not work on its own, probably shouldn't be released as a distinct book, but rather should be part of a larger novel.
Steph wrote: "Hello all. This query is aimed at readers, but concerns newly-published writers, so all are free to comment in whatever capacity! I've noticed that a lot of self-published books by new authors, par..."Some people conclude that their finished products are too long to put into one book and expect folks to invest in. T. E. MacArthur, for example, has just published the second of her "Volcano Lady" books. She has a third in the pipeline right now, and plans a series of eight. She thought about publishing the first three books as one, but realized that readers are unlikely to pick up something the length of "War and Peace" from a new author. (She and I are on the same imprint, and we talk regularly as we are local to one another).
My own debut novel, In The Eye of The Beholder: A Novel of The Phantom of the Opera, came out in 2009. The sequel, "In The Eye of The Storm" is a WIP; I expect the first draft to be completed in September. Some books take a good while to research and construct, so it is not necessarily feasible to release the entire series at the same time.
Steph wrote: "Hello all. This query is aimed at readers, but concerns newly-published writers, so all are free to comment in whatever capacity! I've noticed that a lot of self-published books by new authors, par..."Some people conclude that their finished products are too long to put into one book and expect folks to invest in. T. E. MacArthur, for example, has just published the second of her "Volcano Lady" books. She has a third in the pipeline right now, and plans a series of eight. She thought about publishing the first three books as one, but realized that readers are unlikely to pick up something the length of "War and Peace" from a new author. (She and I are on the same imprint, and we talk regularly as we are local to one another).
My own debut novel, In The Eye of The Beholder: A Novel of The Phantom of the Opera, came out in 2009. The sequel, "In The Eye of The Storm" is a WIP; I expect the first draft to be completed in September. Some books take a good while to research and construct, so it is not necessarily feasible to release the entire series at the same time.
Sharon wrote: "...My own debut novel, In The Eye of The Beholder: A Novel of The Phantom of the Opera, came out in 2009. The sequel, "In The Eye of The Storm" is a WIP..."Indeed; but you're not plugging In The Eye... as 'Part One of the xxx Series'. Besides which, my original comment was about debut novelists; you have a healthy back catalogue, so you've already proved that you can deliver any promised sequels. However, if you're a writer without a track record, what then?
A novel should work as a standalone book in its own right, regardless of whether any sequels have been published, written or even conceived.In short, I'd buy a first book in a series even if the second one hadn't yet been published, knowing there's a finite risk it would never appear, that's fine. But if book one ends mid-sentence without tying up any of its plot threads... well, we might have a problem.
But this is academic from my point of view. I always somehow end up starting series on book 2. I'm known for it, seriously.
I think you're focusing on self-pubbed authors here, but I can add my two cents as an e-pubbed author.I sold my first, debut, book to Noble Romance Publishing, on the premise that it was Book 1 of a 3-book series. However, each book stands alone and features a new set of characters, though the storyline arcs over all 3 books. There's been a lapse of 11 months between publication of Books 1 & 2, and I am currently writing Book 3.
I think as long as the books are stand-alone, or can stand alone, you should mention that.
My publisher is expecting Book 3 from me by December 2012; I dunno how different it would be for a self-pubbed author since I have my publisher's backing, but we've made sure to point out that each book stands alone though it's a series.
But as a reader, I do buy Book 1 before Book 2 has come out, esp if it's a book that can stand alone. I think of Susan Mallery's Fool's Gold series or Robyn Carr's Virgin River series here. Each book is it's own story with its own set of characters. I would be a bit more cautious with a book that, as Andrew sais, ends mid-sentence and makes me need Book 2 to get any kind of closure (like Game of Thrones).
I wouldn't discount buying book one in a series just because the next book isn't out yet. This is true even for self-pubbed books. If the book appeals to me, I'll give it a try. I've actually reviewed first books in a series for various authors and many I'd be keen to read on - sometimes I'm even offered the next book for review when the time comes.The only thing I hate is when things are left on a huge cliffhanger and I know I have to wait a year or so to find out what will happen next! ;)
I read The Weirdstone of Brisingamen: A Tale of Alderley and The Moon of Gomrath: A Tale of Alderley in the late 1980s, and they were published in 1960 and 1963... the third book is coming out later this year! A whisker short of 50 years - how's that for a gap between books in a trilogy?
Andrew wrote: "I read The Weirdstone of Brisingamen: A Tale of Alderley and The Moon of Gomrath: A Tale of Alderley in the late 1980s, and they were published in 1960 and 1963... the third book is coming out late..."Oh thanks for that information Andrew :)
I loved both books along with Elidor and the Owl Service in the 70s and thanks to you I am now excitedly looking forward to Boneland (I just looked it up on Alan Garner's Wikipedia) what an unexpected treat!
Steph wrote: "Hello all. This query is aimed at readers, but concerns newly-published writers, so all are free to comment in whatever capacity! I've noticed that a lot of self-published books by new authors, par..."My own poetry books were originally intended to be published as a set of seven and should have come out over a twelve month period.
As it turned out I only managed three of the series in the year - due to a kitchen fire that destroyed our home and led to us moving countries and coming back to the UK.
I suppose it is a little different for poetry books as they are stand alone. Although my own series' covers have been designed so that when they are lined up on a bookshelf in the correct order to create a rainbow their spines will spell out my name at the top and bottom! Narcissistic or what?
So I have to get them all done eventually.
The ebooks have sold better than the paperbacks of course.
As a reader I will buy part of a series as long as the book stands alone. I got suckered in to the Belgariad series by David Eddings and I always felt like a mug when I reached the last chapter only to be presented with a seriously tantalising cliff-hanger that meant someone with my sense of curiosity had to buy the next.
After that I became quite hard-bitten and always check books first to see if they reach a satisfactory conclusion and if they don't - I don't buy.
Saying that I have many books which are part of different series by different authors and although I enjoyed them tremendously I never felt the urge to go and buy the rest. Usually due to lack of easy availability rather than any other consideration.
Hope that has been a helpful answer.
I really think it depends on how you market it... I wrote Huahuqui with the intention of a sequel, which I am currently writing; however, I never marketed it as book 1 of 2. I think it makes it feel unfinished. Instead, I let reviwers state that they want to read more and hope a second one is coming... just my tuppence worth
My first book (Finding Angel, YA fantasy) is the first in a series, but I purposely wrote it in such a way that it *can* stand alone. Yes, there is another adventure that comes next (and will be out in a few months), but I knew going in that series aren't always the easiest to sell to a traditional publisher when you aren't established yet.I'm not self-published, but I am published through a small press, and I think having my first book work on its own--but with potential for more in a series--is one thing that helped me land the contract.
Andrew wrote: "A novel should work as a standalone book in its own right, regardless of whether any sequels have been published, written or even conceived..."
I prefer that. I think Dune is a prime example. I really didn't like any of the later books, but it is still one of my all time favorites. I don't want to buy into a series. As someone else mentioned, George R.R. Martin's epic series has been torturous in the delays. Too many loose ends that need resolution NOW, at least for me.
I prefer that. I think Dune is a prime example. I really didn't like any of the later books, but it is still one of my all time favorites. I don't want to buy into a series. As someone else mentioned, George R.R. Martin's epic series has been torturous in the delays. Too many loose ends that need resolution NOW, at least for me.
I'm signed for a series with an indie publisher, each novel to be stand alone. Selling the first one was hard work, claiming to have a series when there is only one book on release is really tough. Particularly in fantasy, as we all so love series as readers.The publisher chose to include on the last page of the second book the titles and release dates of the following two so that I can point customers in a shop to that page and say "Look what's coming next". That's a help, and might be a useful tip for other indies.
Steph wrote: "Harrison wrote: "I personally use my blog to inform my readers how far along a sequel is. [...] Right now "Underworld" is 48,279 words, and aiming for a January 2013 release..."Interesting... I s..."
That's because you WILL see it released...as will be books 3 & 4, then 2 prequels.
What has worked for me and kept me on track is the cover art...that's my goal to work towards...writing that scene. Oh, and the reviews help hehe.
Word count 53,000 words.
I find that if I post about the sequel on my blog it gets people interested but also gets them questioning me about it, so it 'forces' me to write it and gets me excited that someone actually cares...Armand Rosamilia
It's kinda what I'm hoping for my books but the sequel is out now. :P
As a writer of a series (the first two are out, the third is getting formatted and the last is a wip) I hadn't even thought of this aspect. I have bought the first book in other series and then waited impatiently for the rest. I guess if I thought about it consciously I'd want to know the next books in the series were available.
Michele wrote: "As a reader I will buy part of a series as long as the book stands alone. I got suckered in to the Belgariad series by David Eddings and I always felt like a mug when I reached the last chapter only to be presented with a seriously tantalising cliff-hanger that meant someone with my sense of curiosity had to buy the next."For my "Fall of the Sea People" fantasy I am aiming at around 600,000 words, which is about 1400 pages, or about 10% longer than The Lord of the Rings. Apart from anything else, there are no low-volume/PoD printers that will run to that number of pages.
I expected my editor to cut my 104,000 word draft of
Venus and the Sea People, but she actually insisted on adding another 5,000 words.
I don't make a secret of it, and I don't worry so much if sales don't pick up until I've got a few more volumes out. You'll see it's the "first volume", not the "first book".
(And yes, of course the first volume ends on a cliff-hanger.)
Andrew wrote: "I read The Weirdstone of Brisingamen: A Tale of Alderley and The Moon of Gomrath: A Tale of Alderley in the late 1980s, and they were published in 1960 and 1963... the third book is coming out late..."Wow! I saw Boneland on Amazon and never twigged it was part of the same series. The Weirdstone of Brisingamen: A Tale of Alderley has always been one of my favourite book so thanks for telling me!
It's years since I read the first two, so I'm going to reread them over the next week or so in anticipation!
Great discussion! I think some of it depends on genre. For example, there are very few stand-alone fantasy or sci-fi books out there. So, fantasy/sci-fi readers tend to be more forgiving of the "wait" between books, because they're used to it.Personally, I decided not to publish book 1 until the entire series was finished. That way I can tell people that King's Warrior is the first of a completed 4-book series, and give them estimates on when each subsequent book will be available. Each of the books in the series stands on its own, and you can even read the first two in either order (1 - 2 or 2 - 1) without becoming confused about what's going on.
I think it's good if you can read books in a series out of order but it nevertheless still makes sense. I came to Malcolm Pryce's Aberystwyth books by first reading one of the later ones (unaware it was a series), but whenever there was a reference to something from the earlier books it was always written in a way that you could work out the gist of what happened. George MacDonald Fraser went one better in the Flashman series, which would reference exploits from books he hadn't even written yet (and some, sadly, he now never will). It's a good trick if you can pull it off.
I hope so as mine is book 1 of a series.You can read it alone, but hopefully people will want to read book 2.
Book 2 will stand alone but certain references may be unclear and book 1 sets the characters up. You can work it out, it is not that obscure but hopefully they will be read in order.
I have read books in the wrong order, occassionally I think well that made no sense then realise:)
Steph wrote: "Sharon wrote: "...My own debut novel, In The Eye of The Beholder: A Novel of The Phantom of the Opera, came out in 2009. The sequel, "In The Eye of The Storm" is a WIP..."Indeed; but you're not p..."
Ohhh I love Phantom of the Opera. I will check this out. A question, how did you go about getting the copyright for this? I have a possible story I wrote a few years back I may one day consider. With the show, the films etc recently did you have problems? Of course Leroux is dead but were there still issues.
GOing to look at your book now. Let me know when the second one is done and I will buy it.
Yes, but I always regret it when it comes to waiting for the next one. The Way of Kings and The Name of the Wind immediately come to mind. I'm currently reading ASoIaF for the second time and I'll likely have to do so again whenever G.R.R.M. finishes #6.
My McKenna's Daughters series are loosely tied together in the first two books, so they can be read in any order. Readers probably should read both of them before they read the third that will release in January 2013. Maggie's Journey and Mary's Blessing are currently available.
Janny Wurts has a wonderful series, The Wars of Light & Shadow, that has been years in the writing. That's tough in this hurry-up world, but the quality has been consistent & excellent. I can remember details of her books for years while fun reads like 'Sookie' dribble out of my brain immediately.
Anyway, her books sell pretty well, but finding her last book, Initiate's Trial, was tough. I think her publisher is dropping the ball. There was nothing about it anywhere that caught my eye. That's just weird because I have a dozen or so favorite authors that I'm constantly looking for & she's one of them.
On top of that, all her books up until the last one, Stormed Fortress, were published in hardbacks, but that one only came out in paperback! That really sucks for everyone, especially people like me that have been collecting the first editions in HB & getting them signed.
Apparently, she's working on the final book of the series now. I can't wait to get that. I hope Harper-Collins does a hardback of it & Stormed Fortress. It really looks weird to see her books lined up on the shelf in HB with one PB next to the end right now.
Anyway, her books sell pretty well, but finding her last book, Initiate's Trial, was tough. I think her publisher is dropping the ball. There was nothing about it anywhere that caught my eye. That's just weird because I have a dozen or so favorite authors that I'm constantly looking for & she's one of them.
On top of that, all her books up until the last one, Stormed Fortress, were published in hardbacks, but that one only came out in paperback! That really sucks for everyone, especially people like me that have been collecting the first editions in HB & getting them signed.
Apparently, she's working on the final book of the series now. I can't wait to get that. I hope Harper-Collins does a hardback of it & Stormed Fortress. It really looks weird to see her books lined up on the shelf in HB with one PB next to the end right now.
I do so all the time, however it is probably best not to put Book 1 in the title. I would submit that it's not really a title, more a descriptor and that being the case there is no compelling contribution to the flavor of the book. The title should convey the book, even if it is a series. You can always number the meta or description after more books are released.
As a reader I probably would buy it.As a writer that has produced a series - there was a 3 year gap between my first and second novel, followed by a 2 year gap between the second and third and now a 1 year gap between the third and fourth. If I decide to do a fifth novel, it may be a few years. It takes time to come up with a good plot to continue the series without becoming redundant.
Yes, I do it all the time. I would not buy Book 2 or later if I did not have the ones earlier in the series, unless I already knew the author and knew I would want them all anyway and found book 2 or later at a big discount/good price.
What a brilliant discussion topic. I can see that for Sci-fi/Fantasy writers, series would be the norm - otherwise you invest a lot of energy in creating whole new worlds just for one book. As a writer of contemporary fiction that happens to be a series, I can say that for my first book my publisher didn't make any reference to a series. Now that book three is in the works, they are beginning to refer to the books as The Fogas Chronicles - so it's not just readers that are wary of sticking Book 1 on the first cover!
Honestly, it doesn't bother me to read a book if a sequel isn't due for another year or so. When I was younger, I actually avoided book series until it reached a point where several books were already out, just in case I absolutely had to know what happened right then and there. It seems kind of silly since I ended up waiting either way.
One thing to consider when answering this question is, not all series are created equal.For example, when one reads Game of Thrones, one finishes the book with the understanding that this is an ongoing narrative, and that the book itself is in no way self-contained.
OTOH, there are books which can (loosely) be considered a 'series', yet which can also be read as stand-alone works. Reading a fourth or fifth novel about an ongoing character, such as Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series, is not nearly as disruptive and can (at least with some of them) be enjoyed almost to the degree of a typical stand-alone.
In my case, my novel House of Shadows was written to be the first of many, but I wrote it so that it could be enjoyed simply on its own merits. But when the beta readers kept asking if there would be a book two, I decided to be more prominent about marketing it as the first of a series.
If it sounds like something I would really be interested in reading I would go ahead and read it, hoping the sequel would be released. Occasionally, I've even started with book two of a series if the first book wasn't available.
Jennifer wrote: "If it sounds like something I would really be interested in reading I would go ahead and read it, hoping the sequel would be released..."This is partly why I started this thread. A while ago I read a really enjoyable sci-fi romp (self-published) that ended with the promise of a sequel, but to date that sequel has not appeared. In this case there was an actual blurb for book two at the end of the story, so not delivering it feels like a cruel joke on the author's part! I will only go back to Smashwords so many times to see if it has finally materialised; after all, there's a lot of other books out there I want to read and I'll never have time to get to them all.
Steph, I can empathize with your frustration. To avoid this kind of situation I wrote Resurrected, book one in the Adam Wolf Thriller series, as a stand-alone novel. The sequel, which I am currently editing and should be out by Christmas, could also be read as a stand-alone novel. I've never been a big fan of "to be continued…" stories. Regardless whether I read a book or watch a TV show that is part of a series, nothing is more frustrating than investing your time in a story only to arrive at that "to be continued…" tag instead of a satisfactory ending.
Steve
Resurrected: An Adam Wolf Thriller
I've been working even harder to ensure that the 3rd book in the Astronomicon series works fine as a standalone novel, as well as being an integral part of the rest of the series. The most difficult part is trying to remember what critical information is given in the first two books but didn't naturally appear in the third. I don't want to leave new readers confused.I don't know whether this is easier or harder for sci fi, but I'd be most interested to hear from authors of series in other genres.
I think there are a couple of ways to look at this--and some of this has been touched on in the comments here.One, from the standpoint of the author, is that many series may have not gone past book one because the first book didn't sell well. The book may not be out of print, for a multitude of reasons, but that doesn't mean it's selling.
That said, a lot of authors give up after the first book because it's not selling well. They become discouraged. But most authors, *especially* self-published and small press, don't really get noticed until they have a few books out. Often, getting book two out will prompt readers to take you more seriously. And if you have a complete series out, then readers may have more trust in you. (Granted, if your writing isn't up to par, full series or no, you will disappoint...)
I guess what I'm saying is, as an author, I can see why it is easy to give up when you're not getting the support of readers for your first book. BUT, I also think that if your writing is good, if you have enough evidence from the reviews and such of your first book, then you simply have to push on and get more books out there to get yourself noticed and give yourself credibility. But readers do need to beware because many first books are just not good and many authors don't stick with it.
And lastly--as a few have mentioned her before--I think first novels should be able to stand alone. Even if they are intended as book one of a series, they should have *resolution*. You have an obligation as a writer to show readers you can follow through with a story, get them from point A to point B. If your first book is a half-book, or just a set-up for a larger series, and there is no resolution at the end, I will not read more unless your writing is mind-blowing.
As a reader, I hate books that claim to be "book 1" when there's no more books. I'm much more likely to read it if there's a trilogy, or a bunch of books in the series. (The library carrying only book 5 is a good sign.)As a writer, I know what a huge amount of work that is. But I've read indiepub and traditionalpub authors all talk about how nobody noticed them until they had three or four books out. Heck, I wasn't aware Harry Potter existed until book 4 launched. Apparently that's more the rule than the exception, too.
In my own small circle of experience, the principle holds true. I wrote fanfics for years, and nobody knew they existed until I'd written ten of the things. (This was before fanfiction.net, when fanfic authors had to work very hard to get noticed.) It seems people like to read large numbers of books by one author.
Goodreads Authors/Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Resurrected (other topics)House of Shadows (other topics)
Stormed Fortress (other topics)
Initiate's Trial (other topics)
The Name of the Wind (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Janny Wurts (other topics)Malcolm Pryce (other topics)
George MacDonald Fraser (other topics)
George R.R. Martin (other topics)
T.E. MacArthur (other topics)
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As a reader who does buy books from Smashwords and wherever, I'm finding myself reluctant to buy novels that are labelled 'book one' if a sequel isn't already available. By all accounts the self-published world is harsh to newcomers and the fear is that a disillusioned author may never get around to writing another, never mind complete the series.
What do others think? Is it better to write stand-alone books to begin with? Or, if an author is determined to debut with a series, is there extra marketing involved to make sure early readers stick around for the sequels?