Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion
Serious Stuff (off-topic)
>
Scifi available in E-Books
Jim wrote: "It will be a lot of years before it is legally in the public domain & until then, no one but the publisher can put it out there as an ebook...."
In some defense of the publishers, they all have huge back catalogs and can only turn out so many e-books a month, especially older books which may not have had electronic production files and so require tedious & costly transcription. With older publishing contracts, the rights for electronic publishing may be either omitted or ambiguous, requiring tracking down the copyright holder (which can be complicated if the author herself is dead.) They may judge it's not worth the expense to reprint an older book. (Just a couple of hours ago I was rummaging around for a source of Jack Vance's "The Dying Earth", which is out-of-print in hard copy and never published in e-book.)
One of the future advantages of eBooks will be that once a title has been published electronically, it will probably never be out of print (since it doesn't require a press wrong or inventory space.) (One of the disadvantages is that technology may render older formats unreadable at some future date.)
In some defense of the publishers, they all have huge back catalogs and can only turn out so many e-books a month, especially older books which may not have had electronic production files and so require tedious & costly transcription. With older publishing contracts, the rights for electronic publishing may be either omitted or ambiguous, requiring tracking down the copyright holder (which can be complicated if the author herself is dead.) They may judge it's not worth the expense to reprint an older book. (Just a couple of hours ago I was rummaging around for a source of Jack Vance's "The Dying Earth", which is out-of-print in hard copy and never published in e-book.)
One of the future advantages of eBooks will be that once a title has been published electronically, it will probably never be out of print (since it doesn't require a press wrong or inventory space.) (One of the disadvantages is that technology may render older formats unreadable at some future date.)
Reissuing the second book, but not the first is pretty indefensible, IMO. Since they haven't issued either as an ebook, it doesn't apply anyway. They tied up the copyright on both, then only republished the second. There's no excuse for that.
G33z3r wrote: "Deeptanshu wrote: "we are seeing a slowdown in the opening of new book stores and those that do exist are heavily diversifying..."Bookstores have been shrinking in the US for years.
Long before..."
This is sad but true. I can count on one hand the number of friends I have who still bother to regularly purchase physical books.
And if they do they're doing it on line from Amazon. They're not walking into the brick-and-mortar store to buy.
Deeptanshu wrote: "I can count on one hand the number of friends I have who still bother to regularly purchase physical books...."
Does this mean all your friends have given up reading, or that e-books have become dominant in India?
Does this mean all your friends have given up reading, or that e-books have become dominant in India?
G33z3r wrote: "Deeptanshu wrote: "I can count on one hand the number of friends I have who still bother to regularly purchase physical books...."Does this mean all your friends have given up reading, or that e-..."
Many have given up reading. Those that still read prefer e books or comics but not serious books.
Deeptanshu wrote: "G33z3r wrote: "Deeptanshu wrote: "I can count on one hand the number of friends I have who still bother to regularly purchase physical books...."Does this mean all your friends have given up reading, or that e-..."
Many have given up reading. Those that still read prefer e books or comics but not serious books.
..."
I'm curious about the distinction between an e-book and a serious book.
I do not like or read e-book versions. I much prefer to hold a book in my hand. I review books professionally...i always ask for physical copies. It is a personal preference thing. I do believe that E-books are a good invention and open up the world of books, publishing and reading...after all, it was good enough for Captain Picard.....
I just do not like them for me.
I find myself reading more and more ebooks rather than paperbacks. Ebooks need less storage and having filled five Ikea-shelves I don't know where to place new books. I should probably get rid of some of my books but I have a hard time doing so.Price and availability are two other reasons I read more ebooks. If I read about a book I often find myself looking for the ebook and I can start reading right away. The price is also better in most cases.
Not to mention the ease of lugging books (i.e. airports) and I have to admit that after what, maybe 30 years, I just find it much easier to hold a WoT-sized book on my mobile. With my eyes, the ability to increase my font is a god-send. My browser's font size is 125%.
I initially missed having physical books, yes, but it's more about the display (I have these thousands of books!!) When I realized the ebook advantages, well, I just don't miss physical books anymore. I could have all the books I ever owned on 1 CD instead of 10 bookcases.
Just my 15 cents. :)
Fredrik wrote: "Ebooks need less storage and having filled five Ikea-shelves I don't know where to place new books...."
A bit under two years ago I noticed my SF/F bookshelves were becoming disorderly due to lack of space. So I expanded my shelves with an additional 16 feet, and I got a Kindle. Already, the books are getting to be a tight squeeze again. I still tend to drift towards use books (because I'm cheap) and with a few series (such as the Wheel of Time) I already had a role of hardcovers I didn't want to change media right at the end. I'm really hoping to use my Kindle more and more and the physical books less and less in the future. (The next bookshelf reorg is going to be a doozy, I'm afraid, because I'm out of wall.)
A bit under two years ago I noticed my SF/F bookshelves were becoming disorderly due to lack of space. So I expanded my shelves with an additional 16 feet, and I got a Kindle. Already, the books are getting to be a tight squeeze again. I still tend to drift towards use books (because I'm cheap) and with a few series (such as the Wheel of Time) I already had a role of hardcovers I didn't want to change media right at the end. I'm really hoping to use my Kindle more and more and the physical books less and less in the future. (The next bookshelf reorg is going to be a doozy, I'm afraid, because I'm out of wall.)
Marg & I were just bemoaning our lack of book shelf space last night. There just isn't enough wall space in the house, but what we have is very pretty. I love looking at the spines of my books. It's like communing with old friends. Looking at my computer directory just isn't the same.Lack of bookshelf space a problem that runs through the family. Our daughter moved in with her finacee & is having the same problem. My grandfather solved it briefly by having a shelf built in his attic. The carpenter said it would take him a lifetime to fill it. A couple of years later he started filling boxes.
;-)
My take on eBooks...for me they are a true blessing. let me count the reasons why:
1) the nearest bookstore to me is 50 miles away
2) the local public library is a total joke
3) i am disabled so i don't get to travel much
living as i do in the backwoods of alabama there are many true classics of SF i have never read simply because i have never been able to find a copy. i have yet to read the Lensmen series for example. i have never even SEEN paper copies. i live in a town of 20k people. all the towns around me are like 3k or less. my Kindle has opened up untold riches for me. i hope to be outof this hell-hole one day, move to a city with a real library, lots of book stores, and maybe even a few Slan-Shacks to hang around and drink some bheer with intresting people. until then i have my Kindle
1) the nearest bookstore to me is 50 miles away
2) the local public library is a total joke
3) i am disabled so i don't get to travel much
living as i do in the backwoods of alabama there are many true classics of SF i have never read simply because i have never been able to find a copy. i have yet to read the Lensmen series for example. i have never even SEEN paper copies. i live in a town of 20k people. all the towns around me are like 3k or less. my Kindle has opened up untold riches for me. i hope to be outof this hell-hole one day, move to a city with a real library, lots of book stores, and maybe even a few Slan-Shacks to hang around and drink some bheer with intresting people. until then i have my Kindle
as for recomenditions for you Kindle try:
Weird Science Fiction Tales (civitais books) ...about 7 or 8 in the series, $2 each 101 stories...most are in the public domain
the Works of H. P. Lovecraft ( mobilerefrence) ...this one is around $5, well worth it
the Robert E. Howard Omibus...(halycon)....a couple of bucks, some mundane fiction, but you get the Conan, Kull, ect.
also, Halycon has alot of public domain stuff by author (E E Smith, Philip k Dick, ect), all under one cover for cheap.
keep in mind some of this stuff has duplicate contents so grab a sample and try before you buy.
Weird Science Fiction Tales (civitais books) ...about 7 or 8 in the series, $2 each 101 stories...most are in the public domain
the Works of H. P. Lovecraft ( mobilerefrence) ...this one is around $5, well worth it
the Robert E. Howard Omibus...(halycon)....a couple of bucks, some mundane fiction, but you get the Conan, Kull, ect.
also, Halycon has alot of public domain stuff by author (E E Smith, Philip k Dick, ect), all under one cover for cheap.
keep in mind some of this stuff has duplicate contents so grab a sample and try before you buy.
Just curious, why are people willing to pay for public domain books at all?
Xdyj wrote: "Just curious, why are people willing to pay for public domain books at all?"I agree. Gutenberg.org has over a million free books & stories in all kinds of ereader-friendly formats. They don't have much Robert E. Howard, but the one in Australia, gutenberg.net.au, has most or all that are public domain. So does WikiSource here:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:...
And that's the other grand thing about e-books -- the author can break out of the 19th-century book distribution thing. I may not have a book deal in Australia, but any reader from Down Under can hop on the net and buy my novels without blinking an eye.
Jim wrote: "Xdyj wrote: "Gutenberg.org has over a million free books.... They don't have much Robert E. Howard, but the one in Australia, gutenberg.net.au, has most or all that are public domain...."
I think part of the difference between the US and Australian Gutenberg sites is the difference in US copyright length (which extends back to 1923 if the copyright holder filed appropriate renewal.) That means a good deal of Smith and Howard is still under copyright in the US.
Brenda wrote: "And that's the other grand thing about e-books -- the author can break out of the 19th-century book distribution thing. ..."
I really enjoy that shorter works can now be distributed economically, making it possible to get access to novella and short stories for a buck or two. (E.g.: Wool, The Emperor's Soul, Inside Job, Bone and Jewel Creatures, The Sagan Diary.)
I've always felt many of the ideas behind science fiction stories can be explored perfectly well in under 40,000 words; It's only been the fixed cost overhead of printing and distributing physical books that has demanded they either be expanded to novel length or combined into anthologies, or be published in magazines (which are just anthologies published on a tighter schedule.)
I think part of the difference between the US and Australian Gutenberg sites is the difference in US copyright length (which extends back to 1923 if the copyright holder filed appropriate renewal.) That means a good deal of Smith and Howard is still under copyright in the US.
Brenda wrote: "And that's the other grand thing about e-books -- the author can break out of the 19th-century book distribution thing. ..."
I really enjoy that shorter works can now be distributed economically, making it possible to get access to novella and short stories for a buck or two. (E.g.: Wool, The Emperor's Soul, Inside Job, Bone and Jewel Creatures, The Sagan Diary.)
I've always felt many of the ideas behind science fiction stories can be explored perfectly well in under 40,000 words; It's only been the fixed cost overhead of printing and distributing physical books that has demanded they either be expanded to novel length or combined into anthologies, or be published in magazines (which are just anthologies published on a tighter schedule.)
16 classic books by Ray Bradbury are now available as eBooks. Included are Something Wicked This Way Comes and The Illustrated Man. (Fahrenheit 451 has been available as an Ebook already.) As of April 30, they should all be available. (Possibly US or US/Canada only.)
The Martian Chronicles isn't included, but the article promises another unnamed 7 books in a few months.
Source:MediaBistro: Ray Bradbury Classics Finally Coming as eBooks
The Martian Chronicles isn't included, but the article promises another unnamed 7 books in a few months.
Source:MediaBistro: Ray Bradbury Classics Finally Coming as eBooks
Yes, the e format is going to be a lifesaver for forms like the novella and the novelette. Even short stories will do better. (I have a short story in an e-anthology just out: http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2013/04/... )
It cost me either£14 or £16 for both Legion and The Emperor's Soul. For Legion I had to order from USA.as I couldn't get it over in the UK. It would of been great to get them cheaper.I'll definitely look up the Ray Bradbury books, l like short stories as well.But withWOOL I got it from Tesco for £7 so that's a bargin, it's a really nice hardback copy as well.
Angie wrote: "It cost me either £14 or £16 for both Legion and The Emperor's Soul. For Legion I had to order from USA.as I couldn't get it over in the UK. It would of been great to get them cheaper...."
Both Legion and The Emperor's Soul Were originally released as commemorative limited-edition hardcovers for a pretty hefty price, then a month later as an e-book (I paid US$3 and $5 for those); the latter now has a paperback releases well. A few other novella, such as Scalzi's The Sagan Diary, have gotten similar limited-edition print and mass-market e-book releases.
The print edition of Wool is a rather new development, as a mainstream publisher finally took note of its popularity and gave the author a print-only rights contract. Just in time for our May discussion of it! :)
Both Legion and The Emperor's Soul Were originally released as commemorative limited-edition hardcovers for a pretty hefty price, then a month later as an e-book (I paid US$3 and $5 for those); the latter now has a paperback releases well. A few other novella, such as Scalzi's The Sagan Diary, have gotten similar limited-edition print and mass-market e-book releases.
The print edition of Wool is a rather new development, as a mainstream publisher finally took note of its popularity and gave the author a print-only rights contract. Just in time for our May discussion of it! :)
Yes I got Brayans Gold by Peter Brett in a hard back limited run as well. I have since then read the Great Bazaar as an e-book, at just a fraction of the price. I don't regret buying the other copies though
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Tor: "
One Year Later, the Results of Tor Books UK Going DRM-Free
"
Their basic conclusion as their sales track on forecast and they have seen no discernible increase in piracy of their titles.
Ars Technica headlines this report as "Tor Books says cutting DRM out of its e-books hasn’t hurt business".
The flip side of this is that it hasn't spurred an increase in their business, either. It might be argued that in giving customers what they said they wanted, people might have been more disposed to purchase Tor science fiction. (It also benefit the publisher in being able to sell eBooks directly to owners of retailer-manufactured devices such as the Kindle, Nook, Sony Reader, Kobo and iPad.) I guess that just proves books aren't fungible.
(One still might wonder if piracy wasn't a concern, why delay the e-book edition of A Memory of Light for two monthsafter the hardcover edition went on sale early January?)
Their basic conclusion as their sales track on forecast and they have seen no discernible increase in piracy of their titles.
Ars Technica headlines this report as "Tor Books says cutting DRM out of its e-books hasn’t hurt business".
The flip side of this is that it hasn't spurred an increase in their business, either. It might be argued that in giving customers what they said they wanted, people might have been more disposed to purchase Tor science fiction. (It also benefit the publisher in being able to sell eBooks directly to owners of retailer-manufactured devices such as the Kindle, Nook, Sony Reader, Kobo and iPad.) I guess that just proves books aren't fungible.
(One still might wonder if piracy wasn't a concern, why delay the e-book edition of A Memory of Light for two monthsafter the hardcover edition went on sale early January?)
G33z3r wrote: "(One still might wonder if piracy wasn't a concern, why delay the e-book edition of A Memory of Light for two monthsafter the hardcover edition went on sale early January?)
..."
That's simple: e-book sales don't count in some of the national bestsellers lists, and Jordan's widow wanted to ensure that the book made it to #1 on the lists, according to Brandon Sanderson.
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/blog/...
J.D. wrote: "That's simple: e-book sales don't count in some of the national bestsellers lists, and Jordan's widow wanted to ensure that the book made it to #1 on the lists, according to Brandon Sanderson...."
Thanks. That's one fewer mystery to life. :) I actually follow Sanderson's blog, but I guess I spaced that question.
I know the NY Times has separate bestseller lists for Hardcover, Paperback, and eBook (as well as fiction/nonfiction), but they also have a combined eBook & Print list that includes all three (in fact, they show that one of the top these days.) But that's the only bestseller list I check (other than Amazon, I guess, which unlike the NY Times, counts pre-orders as sales, making AMoL a bestseller well before the actual ship date.)
The delay didn't actually bother me, because with 15 previous hardcovers on the shelf, adding the 16th was a no-brainer.
Thanks. That's one fewer mystery to life. :) I actually follow Sanderson's blog, but I guess I spaced that question.
I know the NY Times has separate bestseller lists for Hardcover, Paperback, and eBook (as well as fiction/nonfiction), but they also have a combined eBook & Print list that includes all three (in fact, they show that one of the top these days.) But that's the only bestseller list I check (other than Amazon, I guess, which unlike the NY Times, counts pre-orders as sales, making AMoL a bestseller well before the actual ship date.)
The delay didn't actually bother me, because with 15 previous hardcovers on the shelf, adding the 16th was a no-brainer.
News reports today suggest
Microsoft is considering buying B&N's Nook business
.
Apparently the concept is to discontinue the Nook hardware and sell Nook eBooks through apps on other manufacturers' tablets. That would leave Barnes & Noble as a physical book-only retail chain.
Apparently the concept is to discontinue the Nook hardware and sell Nook eBooks through apps on other manufacturers' tablets. That would leave Barnes & Noble as a physical book-only retail chain.
G33z3r wrote: "News reports today suggest Microsoft is considering buying B&N's Nook business
.
Apparently the concept is to discontinue the Nook hardware and sell Nook eBooks through apps on other manufactu..."
Makes sense for Microsoft. Amazon has the Kindle. Apple has the iBookstore. I once thought Google would take Nook, but after they lost the right to scan and re-distribute existing books, and then gave up Google Reader, I figured Google was out of the commercial ebook game for good.
G33z3r wrote: "News reports today suggest Microsoft is considering buying B&N's Nook business
.
Apparently the concept is to discontinue the Nook hardware and sell Nook eBooks through apps on other manufacturers' tablets. That would leave Barnes & Noble as a physical book-only retail chain. ..."
The Nook is a great device, if you don't count it being locked down. Its biggest weaknesses are a terrible user portal for book purchase and discovery and ineffective marketing of both the e-books and the device. Considering Microsoft's track record in these areas, I can't say that this news fills me with hope for the Nook's future.
Microsoft has had a pretty crappy track record with ebooks. They had the .lit format & a tablet for years before anyone else, but never brought it off. They abandoned .lit files a few years ago. I won't hold out a lot of hope.
I use to own a Nook...it's a better bit of hardware than the Kindle, what with the user-replaceable lithium-ion battery and space for expandable ram chip...I dumped my nook in favor of a Kindle because nook had garbage tech support and Amazon had a better selection of content. I use Windows on my laptop every day, and thus curse bill gates several times a day...I won't be during any nook from Microsoft, I'm sure they will find a way to screw it up
E-Book Antitrust Trial of Apple Is Set to Begin (NYTimes)
Apple antitrust suit over e-books set for trial (USA Today)
I can haz cheap eBooks now?
Apple antitrust suit over e-books set for trial (USA Today)
I can haz cheap eBooks now?
i hope apple gets smacked HARD...e-books have NO printing costs...the publisher pays the author, edits the book, and watches the profits roll in...the prices apple charged were insanely high
Spooky, while ebooks have no physical printing costs, they do have cover art, editing and formatting costs. Publishers do the same thing with print books too.I do not know if the outcome of this trial will lower the prices of ebooks. All it will do is lower the percentage the publisher gets from the retailer. It may cause the prices to either stay the same or rise so that publishers still make their profit. Ebooks will be treated more like their physical counterparts in retail and distribution if Apple loses this suit.
I.E., you do have a point, but it just seems to me all that paper, ink, binding, and printing press, not to mention distrubtion costs, when by-passed (as in e-books) should drop costs by more than they do...i think the major publishers are more or less in the same boat the music biz was a few years back...change or die
Company with 60% market share complains about company with 30% market share....
Publishers Strong-armed Us on eBook Prices - Amazon
Publishers don't want to sell eBooks anyway:
Why Book Publishers Are Still Dragging Their Heels on Selling You E-Books
Publishers Strong-armed Us on eBook Prices - Amazon
Publishers don't want to sell eBooks anyway:
Why Book Publishers Are Still Dragging Their Heels on Selling You E-Books
I.E. wrote: "I do not know if the outcome of this trial will lower the prices of ebooks. All it will do is lower the percentage the publisher gets from the retailer. It may cause the prices to either stay the same or rise so that publishers still make their profit...."
I think most of the big publishers in the original DoJ complaint have already agreed to cease the practice (without admitting wrongdoing) and most have returned to the "wholesale" (aka "reseller") model, which lets the retailer set the actual sale price. (I think one publisher still uses the "agency" model in which the publisher sets the retail price. Hachette, I think, but I'm not sure.)
So, for the most part I think we've already seen the eBook price drop.
In the short term, it really doesn't make a lot of difference to the publisher whether they set a fixed retail price and take a fixed percentage, or charge a fixed wholesale price and let the retailer charge whatever it wants (the retailer sets its own markup.)
In the long term, the wholesale model favors the big retailers who can afford to offer larger discounts and gets smaller margins on larger sales volume. Which means, the big get bigger, and the small get squeezed. So basically, Amazon and Apple will continue to eat market share. Amazon increasing its domination of the e-book market makes publishers nervous.
I think most of the big publishers in the original DoJ complaint have already agreed to cease the practice (without admitting wrongdoing) and most have returned to the "wholesale" (aka "reseller") model, which lets the retailer set the actual sale price. (I think one publisher still uses the "agency" model in which the publisher sets the retail price. Hachette, I think, but I'm not sure.)
So, for the most part I think we've already seen the eBook price drop.
In the short term, it really doesn't make a lot of difference to the publisher whether they set a fixed retail price and take a fixed percentage, or charge a fixed wholesale price and let the retailer charge whatever it wants (the retailer sets its own markup.)
In the long term, the wholesale model favors the big retailers who can afford to offer larger discounts and gets smaller margins on larger sales volume. Which means, the big get bigger, and the small get squeezed. So basically, Amazon and Apple will continue to eat market share. Amazon increasing its domination of the e-book market makes publishers nervous.
i dont blame them about being worried about Amazon...we all read a SF story or two where one huge corp. runs EVERYTHING....never turns out well...still, i just hate when we, "the little people" get squeezed when the big boys fight.
G33z3r wrote: I think most of the big publishers in the original DoJ complaint have already agreed to cease the practice (without admitting wrongdoing) and most have returned to the "wholesale" (aka "reseller") model, which lets the retailer set the actual sale price. (I think one publisher still uses the "agency" model in which the publisher sets the retail price. Hachette, I think, but I'm not sure.)The agency model hasn't changed for the most part. I think you are right about already seeing the price drop. Expect the prices to crawl back up.
Amazon will price match anybody anywhere.
The only one who really cares about this lawsuit is Apple. They only deal in ebooks. The publishers make their money on print books. They sell the same title in about three different print versions. It gets to be released multiple times, making them more money. Ebooks are only one shot releases.
Whatever happens, we will all adjust.
Spooky1947 wrote: "...we all read a SF story or two where one huge corp. runs EVERYTHING....never turns out well..."
We have Pohl's The Space Merchants as a suggestion for our July Classic Novel Discussions Nominations, if you need a reminder... :)
We have Pohl's The Space Merchants as a suggestion for our July Classic Novel Discussions Nominations, if you need a reminder... :)
Space Merchants...good...time for a re-read of that. :)
Books have cover art, editing and formatting too. Costs can't be much different from books. Publishers save on: paper, ink, storage space, transportation, & promotion material to begin with.
In fact, publishers can probably make more $$ by bringing back old books. I honestly wouldn't mind re-reading Chalker's Well of the Souls books or his quadrology (Chimera and 3 others).
When I moved out of my parent's house, I had to give away all my books. No money to rent storage, no place to hold books as I had 1500+ books. I didn't even have a guarantee that I'd ever have a place for my books.
As it turns out, I bought a house 22 years after moving out of my parent's house. Imagine a cheap storage area at $20/month. That's over 5k, assuming my books survived temperature changes.
Washington Post reports: One-third of Americans adults has a tablet (up from 3% only 3 years ago.) "Tablet" includes iPads & Kindle Fire, but not pure eReaders. No telling how many read on the tablet, and how many play Farmville.
i hope most use their tablets to read...farmville is boreing as hell
I have a tablet but I've never heard of Farmville. You just know I have to look this up now. If I get hooked on a really stupid game, I'll be blaming you two for mentioning it.
id tell you where to find it, but then id burn in hades....farmville is one evil game
Frankly i never understood peoples fascination with Farmville, I found it a pretty boring game.
Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy
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Bookstores have been shrinking in the US for years.
Long before I retired, there was a small independent bookstore located across the street from the office complex where I worked. During lunch break once a week, some fellow sci-fi fans and coworkers would wander over together, chatting about what they'd read and urging each other to purchase favorite books. That store closed not from the pressure of online sales but from the big chain retailers who offer larger selections and lower prices. Now the big chains are falling victim to similar competition from online retailers (especially Amazon.)
There are still people who enjoy the physical shopping experience, but I doubt they are enough to sustain a large store. Some bookstores still offer unique experiences in author visits and hosting book clubs, but even there, online social media is encroaching on them.