SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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I really don't like the multiple broadcasts. I just counted, and there were FOUR broadcasts sent out from this group this month. And there's still 12 days left. It's excessive in my opinion. I use broadcasts in other groups to announce polls, but it's very rare that I'll use them for anything else. If there are other two polls, they are set up together and sent out together.
I have zero interest in seeing more campaign messages coming into my inbox. If that happens, I will leave the group. I don't want spam. I want to hang out and have fun and discuss books.
I like the way you do polls - I don't mind the emails, as long as they don't get excessive.
One other thought... And as a note, I don't really pay attention to how the nominations are done (since I don't usually nominate anything myself), and I can't seem to find a nomination thread anywhere, so I don't know whether this is done or not. Just throwing it out there as a thought though. Perhaps when asking for nominations, it would help to require a short explanation of how the book fits the genre or theme or whatever in order for the book to make it onto the poll.
I think this would help with the "this book shouldn't be on the poll" debates, because its justification (and seconding) would be what gets it onto the poll in the first place.
Then there could be discussion regarding which book to read, rather than which books shouldn't be in the poll.
It's hard to account for all aspects of this kind of hting; if the group gets big, tehn there will be a lot of people, and if there are a lot of people, there will be more posts. As for me, I think it's fun to discuss matters related to my favorite science fiction books, movies, stories et cetera; it's also a chance to be exposed to books, movies, stories etc. I hadn't heard of before. I don't know if I've provided anything in the way of a suggestion, but those are the things I hope to get from the group...
Nicki wrote: "Okay...1) I don't like the "Well, we're dictators here and this is how we do things, it's not a democracy" attitude..."
Agree with this.
I agree with Nicki's comment. I thought the message sent requesting us to vote for the moderator's book choice was just ridiculous. Let the group speak.
I wouldn't look forward to mass-messaging for campaigning, but do appreciate being notified of nomination threads and new polls.Honestly, I think this group is great most of the time. I wish there was less ganging and counter-ganging and anger when arguments started, but whatever - most of the time those of us who want to ignore it can.
Overall, I think all you czars are doing a good job. Congratulations! - and I mean it.
I like the wide-ranging discussions. They've been quite fun. I like discussion groups that are a bit like Boston traffic: plenty of close calls, lots of nice people and a few asshats to keep things lively.Nicki wrote: "I enjoy environments where adults are allowed to disagree rather than being treated like naughty children if they say a bad word)."
Damn straight. (Like I could resist.)
I haven't seen too much heavy modding in the few short months I've been participating. A light hand is preferred and clearly-delineated rules even better. There's a lot of room for back-and-forth discussion before someone should be slapped down for saying the equivalent of, "Jane, you ignorant slut." (Those of you under 30, feel free to YouTube that quote.)
And Ala, if you've been participating that much, then that's one reason it's not fun any more. Just dip in every once in a while. To use a perfectly appropriate pun: moderation is key.
Trike, I was with you 100% until that last bit... Ala is what makes this group fun for me. He makes me laugh. He participates as a member, and puts on the hat when he needs to. I like that.
Becky wrote: "Trike, I was with you 100% until that last bit... Ala is what makes this group fun for me. He makes me laugh. He participates as a member, and puts on the hat when he needs to. I like that."I agree with Trike on the last part. Ala needs to act like a real moderator and do your job right. Its like he is suppose to be the parent in the relation, but has become us, the kids best friends. You can still do that, but there still needs to have rules in order to know where and when the line should be drawn.
Nicki wrote: "Yes, Ala's the reason I started popping in here a lot more often. He gets it right, and he's fun to be around. :)"He is the reason that all the mean girls started go crowding around in this group, while escaping from other gtoups, where they have been before.
Nicki wrote: "Kev, I agree that you probably need a parental figure to curb your internet activities, but most of us are just fine without Ala 'parenting' us. ;) Like I said -- he gets the balance exactly right."Yeah, like I said he is one of you, so he is not doing what a modetor is suppose to do. If you look at other groups, if random things like the way you guys do it, the modeator would tell you guys to get back in on topic.
Nicki wrote: "Kev, I agree that you probably need a parental figure to curb your internet activities, but most of us are just fine without Ala 'parenting' us. ;) Like I said -- he gets the balance exactly right."Its not for me, but its for all the means girls.
I disagree, Kevin. Moderators are not, or should not be, authority figures. They have authority to resolve disputes etc, but I prefer the ones who don't wave it around, like certain other mods I've known.
Oh, again with the random stuff... Jeez. You're the only one who has any problem with a random thread where people just have fun and talk about random stuff. It was ALA'S thread to begin with... if ANYONE should have the right to complain about where it went, it should be him.
Becky wrote: "Oh, again with the random stuff... Jeez. You're the only one who has any problem with a random thread where people just have fun and talk about random stuff. It was ALA'S thread to begin with... ..."
You don't know, I have people tell me that they don't read all the stuff that you guys post.
Becky wrote: "I disagree, Kevin. Moderators are not, or should not be, authority figures. They have authority to resolve disputes etc, but I prefer the ones who don't wave it around, like certain other mods I've..."I wonder who might those other moderators might be?
I like that we explore a variety of both fantasy and sci fi. I also enjoy that we're beginning to explore Urban Fantasy.I enjoy the recommendations given by others, the off topic threads, and the intelligent book discussion threads. I think that his group has a wonderful variety, and it's great!
Becky wrote: "I disagree, Kevin. Moderators are not, or should not be, authority figures. They have authority to resolve disputes etc, but I prefer the ones who don't wave it around, like certain other mods I've..."I agree. Moderators are members just like us and should act like it. If things get out of hand they can step in an fix it but normally they can play along with the rest of us.
Kevin.*facepalm*
(loving Ronald's horse. LOL)
Craig wrote: "Becky wrote: "I disagree, Kevin. Moderators are not, or should not be, authority figures. They have authority to resolve disputes etc, but I prefer the ones who don't wave it around, like certain o..."But as trike have stated that it not as fun when the moderator posted more than most of the group's member.
Kevin wrote: "You don't know, I have people tell me that they don't read all the stuff that you guys post."Well, it seems that that's the appropriate response, to me. If I don't want to see something, I don't read it.
And I could be misinterpreting Trike's comment, but I understood that when he said "And Ala, if you've been participating that much, then that's one reason it's not fun any more. Just dip in every once in a while. To use a perfectly appropriate pun: moderation is key." that he was referring to Ala saying that things weren't as fun anymore. That Trike was saying that perhaps Ala is around too much in a moderator capacity. Rather than saying that Ala makes the group less fun.Trike, am I misunderstanding that?
If I wanted to be a Lone Ranger in charge of me, I'd never consider joining a club. A moderator of a book club is about herding cats so I can see how angst can develop. It's easier if Goodreads' general rules are set as the basis for a moderator wearing the judge hat, and transgressors are given a staged warning process. Nobody wants to be called an idiot or other personal slams (unless it is from a friend who is joshing), but saying an opinion as long as it is about the book or author or politics or society, should be allowed. Unfortunately, not everyone has taken a debate class and knows a heated difference of opinion is not a personal put down and is allowed, and I think a moderator is needed to be first, a judge (was it a personal slur?) and second, a sly changer of subject (ok, this is too hot even if no one is name calling - time to bring in a new question). That would be the Cat Herder hat. Sensitive souls make for a boring thread, so frankly, I have no sympathy or desire to read a politically correct sensitive soul comment. I've read plenty of 'moderated' threads that consist of 50 comments along the line of "this was great." "I agree." "yeah, me too" "you're so sweet saying so" "thank you" "no thank you". Yawn.
Becky wrote: "Trike, am I misunderstanding that?..."I'm afraid so. It literally was just a pun. Calling it out *as* a pun was me being meta.
See, my humor is totally unappreciated in my lifetime. 60 years from now you're going to hit yourselves on the forehead and go, "Oh! I get it! Trike, you magnificent bastard."
I just want us all to be friends. Group hugs and stuff. Also, I want to meet a nice girl and settle down, build a nice little house filled with books. Or a kindle. (But don't tell my wife any of that. She would KILL me.)
Well Ala, as you asked. :)I like : nominating books and arguing the toss over the nominations. Kevin, Ala, Brad, and the mean girls. The fun random discussion nicely contained in its own thread. The wide range of opinions, often very different to my own, voiced in the discussion threads. The large SF & F knowledge and experience base in this large group.
I don't like : personal attacks with name calling etc. Nomination threads closing too soon, missing my chance to stick my tuppence worth in.
how should the group be run? With a deft and gentle touch. Moderators should have fun like everyone else, but when the moderators black judges hat goes on it should be serious fair and unbiased, but when the hat comes off anything goes ish.
All in all keep up the good work lads and lasses, maybe lets keep mass messages for group business and leave the campaigning in the appropriate threads where all men/women are equal.
Like our moderator should join in in moderation.....?I am an Ala sammies kinda person, so I like him to talk more....he makes me laugh.
and Kev-if Ala is a mean girl, why do you keep coming back for more punishment?
it all makes me tired...now I need more coffee!
I like it all. I didnt even mind the campaign post, as I thought it humourous. I suppose if I was a Stephenson fan I'd a been annoyed though.
Trike wrote: "Becky wrote: "Trike, am I misunderstanding that?..."I'm afraid so. It literally was just a pun. Calling it out *as* a pun was me being meta."
Right... I got the pun. Surprisingly uncomplicated.
So, if it was just a pun, just to be clear, the rest of your comment indicates that you feel the group is less fun for Ala actually participating in it. That's very interesting... Why should he not participate? Is he not a member?
I guess I'm not following this "approved" moderator double standard. We want everyone to be equal when it comes to campaigning and whatnot for books, but then moderators are supposed to curtail their actual involvement in the group?
I just woke up, and I didn't sleep well, so this mean girl is feeling kind of grumpy. I hope I'm just not getting the joke again, because personally I think that's crap.
That's how I interpreted it originally, too, Nicki. Apparently I was misunderstanding...
I used to participate more in this group. Often, though, the books that win polls win solely because the author's name is recognizable to the majority of group members at large. So, I opt not to read them because I rarely if ever have followed 'the crowd' in real life or online. Occasionally a book wins that I a) haven't read and b) appeals to my tastes (always elusive). In fact, I just finished Ready Player One and could not put it down. My next stop will be the discussion threads to see if I have anything of substance to add to the discussion.
And on the topic of discussions, book ones that is, I prefer the chapter-by-chapter running discussion. If the threads are limited to 'first impressions/no spoilers' and 'finished/spoilers' I'm less inclined to bounce back in when I finish. I prefer to discuss as I read, while others are reading along with me.
Ala, please don't be discouraged. Your vibrancy and humor are a welcome addition to the group. I thank you sincerely for your time and please continue to have fun!
Jon
Nicki wrote: "I think Trike was saying that Ala should participate in the group less if participating too much is making it less fun for Ala, not that having him participate makes it less fun for the rest of us. At least, that's how I read it. I could be talking out of my ass. :)"Nicki has the right of it. I wasn't trying to be complicated or anything. I think Becky may be over-thinking it a bit much. (That was not doublethink, for the record.)
If Ala is feeling like it's too much work to participate, perhaps a short vacation is recommended. Play a game, take a stroll, read a b... well, you know.
I've only been around for a short while, but I like Ala. He seems even-tempered and good-natured and I'll bet he rarely cross-dresses inappropriately. But if the choice is slightly fewer Ala posts per week versus Ala burning out and not posting ever again, I gather most folks would rather it be the former.
Kevin wrote: "But as trike have stated that it not as fun when the moderator posted more than most of the group's member."In most of the places I've been on the Internet, even from the beginning days, a moderator is usually someone with more posts. If members have more posts than a moderator, then I question if that mod is really an active member of the community.
As for your problem with the random thread over in Member's Chat...please. I don't see discussions regarding any group business getting way off topic, and when it starts to, the mods have always gotten the thread back on topic.
Ala, I know where you're coming from. I was a moderator on a forum for a popular online children's game, many many years ago. They're kids, and a surprising amount of adults, but still the bickering, name-calling, rule violations...it was endless, thankless work. But I still enjoyed it. I had to give up modding and playing the game due to real life. :(
I appreciate emails informing me of nomintations and polls. Anything else is just too much. As it is, I'm usually too busy to visit the poll/nominations, but at least I know they're there and its all my fault if I've missed my chance to express my opinion. I've also been too broke to get titles on the lists, and my local library's sci-fi/fantasy selection is pretty weak. So I don't feel I should vote on something I know I won't be able to read. Again, that's me and I'm making that choice.
And I agree with Jon. I like the chapter-by-chapter discussions. And for the same reasons.
Trike wrote:"If Ala is feeling like it's too much work to participate, perhaps a short vacation is recommended. Play a game, take a stroll, read a b... well, you know.
I've only been around for a short while, but I like Ala. He seems even-tempered and good-natured and I'll bet he rarely cross-dresses inappropriately. But if the choice is slightly fewer Ala posts per week versus Ala burning out and not posting ever again, I gather most folks would rather it be the former."
Seconded.
My head is spinning from reading all these comments. I like this group just the way it is. It's fun, there's substance, and I get great book recommendations. It's my favorite group and a lot of that has to do with moderator. Keep it the way it is!
*rolls eyes* If you don't like it, Kevin, bail. Go play Yugioh somewhere o_O
*gasp* Did Kevin post a comment and then delete it after I replied? Oh he would Never do that. It's totally not his modus operandi to Yet again bitch and moan, get lightly smacked and then flee
*rolls eyes*
*rolls eyes*
Grant wrote: "*rolls eyes* If you don't like it, Kevin, bail. Go play Yugioh somewhere o_O"Go back to where you were hiding and stay there.
Grant wrote: "*gasp* Did Kevin post a comment and then delete it after I replied? Oh he would Never do that. It's totally not his modus operandi to Yet again bitch and moan, get lightly smacked and then flee..."
I never did that today.
Lol aw I missed you too Kev, ya lying little douche :) Are you really 5*5 and 130lbs? That's so not fair! I could never smack you in real life. I'd have to send my 8 year old to Ladue to kick your ass in a fair fight ;)
Kev wrote, "I never did that today."
Uhhh...sure ya didn't Kev. You also Always make perfect sense, you're Never a homophobe and your mastery of all the nuances of the English language is something to which we all should aspire.
...dies of sarcasm
Uhhh...sure ya didn't Kev. You also Always make perfect sense, you're Never a homophobe and your mastery of all the nuances of the English language is something to which we all should aspire.
...dies of sarcasm
Grant wrote: "Lol aw I missed you too Kev, ya lying little douche :) Are you really 5*5 and 130lbs? That's so not fair! I could never smack you in real life. I'd have to send my 8 year old to Ladue to kick you..."Go fuck yourself you big bag of crap. I hope I really don't have to kick your ass. Go to hell and hope you never come back.
Welp.
That's about enough of that.
Edit:
Thanks to everyone for voicing your opinions and thoughts. It's much appreciated.
We'll give it some thought now and let you all know what's up for next year :)
That's about enough of that.
Edit:
Thanks to everyone for voicing your opinions and thoughts. It's much appreciated.
We'll give it some thought now and let you all know what's up for next year :)
Lol..Kev...I will gladly pay you to try to kick my ass :) I won't hit back or anything. I'll just stand there and giggle at your effeminate slaps and little squeals of genuine effort :) I could even hyperventilate from the mad laughter and you could Win! C'mon...offer good until forever :)
Looooooooooove yooooooooooou, Kev :) Merry Christmas!
Looooooooooove yooooooooooou, Kev :) Merry Christmas!
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
So let's just break out the discussion here, please.
If you don't mind, I'd just like to know:
1) What don't you like about the group?
2) What do you like about the group?
3) How do you think this group should be run?
4) Do you want nominations/polls changed if at all?
5) Do you want mass-messages stopped or would you like the occasional reminders of polls/threads?
6) Anything else you want to say?
I joined this group over a year ago, and have tried to participate and just have fun since then. Even before I was modded I'd jump around and post and have fun. Seriously, look at the members list and sort by post count. That's me, at the top. In a little over one year.
But lately it seems like work, work, and more work. It's almost tiresome and tedious, and I'd really rather it wasn't.
I want the fun back.
So help me out here and tell me what it is you want so we can get back to having some fun.