Creative Reviews discussion
?'s for the Members of CR
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The importance of negative reviews?
Angel wrote: "I love difference but I never liked the concept of tolerance. I know what people typically mean when they use it. But to me if someone were to tell me they tolerate me it would just mean they put u..."you're totally right. Substitute "tolerance" with acceptance of differences! :-)
Angel wrote: "I love difference but I never liked the concept of tolerance. I know what people typically mean when they use it. But to me if someone were to tell me they tolerate me it would just mean they put u..."
Yes, I see your point--acceptance it is!
Yes, I see your point--acceptance it is!
Heh, I'm okay with tolerance. With the stuff I say, you gotta be crazy as a cat-lady like me to appreciate what I say. LOL.
Experiment wrote: "Heh, I'm okay with tolerance. With the stuff I say, you gotta be crazy as a cat-lady like me to appreciate what I say. LOL."
Long Live Difference!
Long Live Difference!
Case 5: Don't Stop Now, The Drama is Just Getting StartedThe "Nasty Review" in question: http://theallureofbooks.com/2012/01/d...
The Stage: http://juliehalpern.blogspot.com/2012... has been deleted, try this http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...
The Offending Author: Julie Halpern
Moral of the Story:
"Wow. The review said nothing personal about you and yet you said 'her bio has much in the way of potential mocking.'What she said. Authors, please do not take negative reviews as personal attacks. They're not meant for you, please don't read them if you're irascible. Thank you. =)
You just made it personal."
Perfect example of an author acting professionally and just plain sane: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_...Miss Rachel Caine, you make me proud for reading your books.
Experiment wrote: "Perfect example of an author acting professionally and just plain sane: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_...
Miss Rachel Caine, you make me pr..."
Just read it. A very good blog and attitude!
Miss Rachel Caine, you make me pr..."
Just read it. A very good blog and attitude!
Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Perfect example of an author acting professionally and just plain sane: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_...Miss..."
Another good author: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_...
Hannah Moskowitz, I will be buying your GGG book. <3 times a 100.
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Perfect example of an author acting professionally and just plain sane: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_...
Miss..."
An..."
Read and liked this one too. Good to see that voices of calm and reason are out there too.
Miss..."
An..."
Read and liked this one too. Good to see that voices of calm and reason are out there too.
I'm wondering if everyone ran out of holiday cheer this week and got up on the wrong side of the bed. It seems like tearing into reviewers has become the thing to do this week.I couldn't believe some of the things fellow authors have done. Don't they know that picking on the people that willingly share our books only hurts them no matter how bad they might feel a review was?
I hope that this crazy week of review drama dies down and we can all go back to respecting that everyone has their own opinions, and we are entitled to state that opinion without getting slammed for it.
Bridget wrote: "I'm wondering if everyone ran out of holiday cheer this week and got up on the wrong side of the bed. It seems like tearing into reviewers has become the thing to do this week.
I couldn't believe ..."
And I'll add that without reviewers where would we be? A reaction to a story, whether negative or positive, is good, it means you reached the reader in some way.
That's what I want. Bring them on, good or bad, one star or five, or anywhere in between. I'm just glad that people are reading my stories.
I couldn't believe ..."
And I'll add that without reviewers where would we be? A reaction to a story, whether negative or positive, is good, it means you reached the reader in some way.
That's what I want. Bring them on, good or bad, one star or five, or anywhere in between. I'm just glad that people are reading my stories.
I completely agree, Georgina.No matter what the reaction of the reader, at least you did cause them to react. We all hope that as writers we find ways to connect to those that read our work. Of course, we always hope for the most positive of connections, but sometimes it will be negative. Besides as they say, there is a fine line between love and hate.
Kinda ironic actually, these offending authors wrote books that have an average rating stat above 3 stars. Above 3 stars! That means most readers do like their books (if you go by Goodreads' definition of a 3-stars), yet these authors chose to pay attention to the nay-sayers. I don't know, but this kinda makes me think these authors are spoiled. =/Ah, well here are some more professional authors.
Upcoming author in 2013 Phoebe North: http://www.phoebenorth.com/2012/01/06...
Winner of Two Official Goodreads Award Veronica Roth: http://www.yahighway.com/2012/01/real...
YA Author of the popular Iron Fey series Julie Kagawa: http://juliekagawa.blogspot.com/2012/...
I am listing these professional authors to let readers here know that the YA community is not plagued by these, uh, unpleasant authors I named in my drama cases above.
Bridget wrote: "I completely agree, Georgina.
No matter what the reaction of the reader, at least you did cause them to react. We all hope that as writers we find ways to connect to those that read our work. Of c..."
I recently rated some books I'd read in the past. I gave one star to two of them.
The reason for the rating for the first book, 'The Malleus Maleficarium' (The Hammer of the Witches) was fairly obvious--the monks who wrote it, believed it to be a non-fiction work. It's my opinion that this book is guaranteed to offend the sensibilities of pretty much every man and woman alive today, no matter their faith or creed.
The second book 'Der Struwwelpeter' was definitely one of those love/hate things. It's a German children's book that I grew up with, it both repelled and fascinated me.
Since the authors are long dead, I doubt I'll be receiving an angry backlash any time soon. But I don't usually rate anything that I don't enjoy. And to tell you the truth, I avoid rating books that obviously need a lot of editing. I'm not interested in offending.
No sign of that angst in this group though is there? Lovely interchanges between readers, writers, bloggers and reviewers. :)
No matter what the reaction of the reader, at least you did cause them to react. We all hope that as writers we find ways to connect to those that read our work. Of c..."
I recently rated some books I'd read in the past. I gave one star to two of them.
The reason for the rating for the first book, 'The Malleus Maleficarium' (The Hammer of the Witches) was fairly obvious--the monks who wrote it, believed it to be a non-fiction work. It's my opinion that this book is guaranteed to offend the sensibilities of pretty much every man and woman alive today, no matter their faith or creed.
The second book 'Der Struwwelpeter' was definitely one of those love/hate things. It's a German children's book that I grew up with, it both repelled and fascinated me.
Since the authors are long dead, I doubt I'll be receiving an angry backlash any time soon. But I don't usually rate anything that I don't enjoy. And to tell you the truth, I avoid rating books that obviously need a lot of editing. I'm not interested in offending.
No sign of that angst in this group though is there? Lovely interchanges between readers, writers, bloggers and reviewers. :)
Georgina wrote: "No sign of that angst in this group though is there? Lovely interchanges between readers, writers, bloggers and reviewers. :) "Calmest place I ever been in, that's for sure. And thank goodness. And kudos to you authors for being professional as well, I shouldn't forget y'all as well. This includes you Georgina. ^_-
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "No sign of that angst in this group though is there? Lovely interchanges between readers, writers, bloggers and reviewers. :) "
Calmest place I ever been in, that's for sure. And ..."
Thanks, Experiment. :) This is a haven within the storm, let's hope it settles quickly and everything returns to normal.
Calmest place I ever been in, that's for sure. And ..."
Thanks, Experiment. :) This is a haven within the storm, let's hope it settles quickly and everything returns to normal.
As a writer AND a reviewer (I have a website on the side in Canada that reviews all sorts of things) I'm finding about one in 10 artists we review tends to take it very, very personally, no matter how objective the perspective may seem.I guess that's just the emotional attachment. I'll probably do it about something I write at some point ... and feel like an idiot 10 minutes later. Of course, in this day and age, everything lasts online forever, so restraint is becoming something of an art form among arts types who, if not necessarily extroverted, are certainly not shy about opinions.
L.H. wrote: "As a writer AND a reviewer (I have a website on the side in Canada that reviews all sorts of things) I'm finding about one in 10 artists we review tends to take it very, very personally, no matter ..."
I've had my share of bad reviews as a visual artist. The worst ones are those that describe the work but don't share any opinions on it. I also failed my final year folio at Art School (how's that for a tongue twisting alliteration?) I repeated the year, graduated, and grew immensely as an artist and had my first show with a major gallery in the same year.
Feedback and constructive criticism helps us grow. We need it.
I asked Emme (her blog is called the bitch factor--you're not so snarky, Emme, despite your claim :)), who reviewed my short stories, to be a Beta Reader for me. I want to know what doesn't work, what puts a reader off, what makes them put that book down and go and do something else--because they shouldn't be--they should be glued to it, unable to put it down. Well, that's the dream.
And in terms of the internet's long memory, there's a preview button. It's not just to make sure you haven't revealed your hopeless spelling (yes, I thank all the gods for the spell checker), but to make sure you are really clear about what you are posting. A moment's pause...
I've had my share of bad reviews as a visual artist. The worst ones are those that describe the work but don't share any opinions on it. I also failed my final year folio at Art School (how's that for a tongue twisting alliteration?) I repeated the year, graduated, and grew immensely as an artist and had my first show with a major gallery in the same year.
Feedback and constructive criticism helps us grow. We need it.
I asked Emme (her blog is called the bitch factor--you're not so snarky, Emme, despite your claim :)), who reviewed my short stories, to be a Beta Reader for me. I want to know what doesn't work, what puts a reader off, what makes them put that book down and go and do something else--because they shouldn't be--they should be glued to it, unable to put it down. Well, that's the dream.
And in terms of the internet's long memory, there's a preview button. It's not just to make sure you haven't revealed your hopeless spelling (yes, I thank all the gods for the spell checker), but to make sure you are really clear about what you are posting. A moment's pause...
I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negative reviews, including its ugly unholy side: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_...So glad I kept reading her UF series even though I'm not enamored with it at all. =)
Experiment wrote: "I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negative reviews, including its ugly unholy side: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_......"
Really good points.
Really good points.
Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negative reviews, including its ugly unholy side: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_......"Thanks Georgina, I hope my posts have been... educational at least despite all the drama. =d I'm just now figuring out what they call it "Author's Big Mistake."
Oh, you should read (or skim) this drama episode: http://theselfpublishingreview.wordpr...
It's not OMFG-angry but just really LMAO-funny. Personally, I think an author spamming a negative review with 40 positive (fake) reviews is the least offensive way to react or misbehave. If anything, it's just funny as hell. XD
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negative reviews, including its ugly unholy side: http://www.goodreads.com/au..."
Shiny Little Stars that Look Pretty but Feel Fake, and Are Fake!
This clearly is a writer with an altogether different slant on the author-reviewer relationship. Got to hand it to him for sheer dogged perseverance. Especially as the reviews are so funny in themselves: 'Johanna from MASSACHUSETTS writes: “”Flight to Paradise” is a HOT one!!!!”'
I've heard that publishers get all sorts of full-on responses to their rejection letters. From heated rants to death threats. What a job!
My kids have been watching the Madagascar movies and I think the penguins have got it right in terms of personal demeanor, 'Just smile and wave, boys. Just smile and wave'.
Shiny Little Stars that Look Pretty but Feel Fake, and Are Fake!
This clearly is a writer with an altogether different slant on the author-reviewer relationship. Got to hand it to him for sheer dogged perseverance. Especially as the reviews are so funny in themselves: 'Johanna from MASSACHUSETTS writes: “”Flight to Paradise” is a HOT one!!!!”'
I've heard that publishers get all sorts of full-on responses to their rejection letters. From heated rants to death threats. What a job!
My kids have been watching the Madagascar movies and I think the penguins have got it right in terms of personal demeanor, 'Just smile and wave, boys. Just smile and wave'.
Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negative reviews, including its ugly unholy side: http://w..."My favorite from that drama episode is by this commenter reacting against the uh, unpleasant author.
Julio Snodgrass says:Too bad that commenter isn't an author, I would so read her book (assuming it's in a genre I prefer).
January 9, 2012 at 4:57 pm
I’m afraid the content of the comments has moved away from the discussion of the actual story and a discussion about commenting. I recently gathered some additional comments from some of Mike’s loyal readers. I’m going to follow Mike’s lead and withhold the last names to protect the privacy of the reviewers. Hopefully, this will get us back on track …
Beyoncé from Los Angeles writes: “I’ve never read such raw unbridled talent as Flight to Paradise. Lately, I’ve been on bed rest and on doctors orders to relax. I would recommend this book to all the ‘single ladies.’ ”
Oprah from Chicago writes: “This is the greatest book I have ever read. For the first time, I wish I still had a venue to gather people together and discuss the pure genius of Flight to Paradise. In the meantime I’ll just have to buy copies and distribute them to my fans, er, friends. You get a book! You get a book! Book! Book! We’ll all be READ-INNNNNNGGG!!!”
Regis from New York City writes: “All this time, I thought I knew Joy. I thought I was married to her. Hey! So last night we’re having drinks at the 54 Marlin, and this little man walks up to me. Looks me in the eye and says, ‘Rege, you’ve got to find true joy by reading this book, Flight to Paradise.’ Boom! Up all night. Yowza! I’ve got to tell Gelman.”
Lassie from Hollywood writes: “Ruff! Ruff, Ruff, Ruff!” (Translation: Timmy is not lost in the well. He recently discovered Flight to Paradise and he is loving every syllable.)
FYI, that reviewer is a professional editor and IIRC, what's she doing on her blog is basically what she doing for her job for some publisher — to pick good books and rid bad books. She got a lot of credibility right there. No better reviewer than someone who actually does it for a living.
I wonder if publishers are required to wear hard hats. =D
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negative reviews, including its ugly unho..."
Armor would be required wear.
“Ruff! Ruff, Ruff, Ruff! Boom! Up all night. Yowza!'' Sounds like an episode of Black Adder.
:) Georgina.
Armor would be required wear.
“Ruff! Ruff, Ruff, Ruff! Boom! Up all night. Yowza!'' Sounds like an episode of Black Adder.
:) Georgina.
Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negative reviews, incl..."I also wonder if the cost of replacing protective wear is a reason why authors don't get bigger royalties. =P
I learned from this author's awesome rant which lead to this review policy on why most established bloggers don't review self-pub books, which is a shame since I read some pretty damn good ones. Why those unpleasant self-pub authors gotta ruin it for the rest of their peers? Geeze.
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Experiment wrote: "I love this author so much, she "gets" readers and what Goodreads is for and "gets" negat..."
These two statements sum up my concerns ( I can't believe more indie authors are doing it? Ahh!):
'With your unprofessional behavior, you are not only damaging your own reputation, but also those of the thousands of Indie authors who are striving to have the stigma removed from Indie publishing.'
'I can't help but wonder when exactly did good manners go out the window? Is it because with the Internet people don't interact face-to-face?'
These two statements sum up my concerns ( I can't believe more indie authors are doing it? Ahh!):
'With your unprofessional behavior, you are not only damaging your own reputation, but also those of the thousands of Indie authors who are striving to have the stigma removed from Indie publishing.'
'I can't help but wonder when exactly did good manners go out the window? Is it because with the Internet people don't interact face-to-face?'
Another point I noted, as to why so many reviewers don't take on indie writers, was that it's not just horrible experiences with author rudeness, but also dealing with lack of quality, in terms of the editorial process.
I have my novel with a developmental editor, beta readers and then it will go to a copy editor. My novella, that I'm trying to polish but find myself procrastinating, was to be released in the coming weeks. Now I'm thinking that I can't risk it. It will have to go through the same sort of process.
I think that indie writers are judged more harshly than their published peers. I've been told by an ex-publisher (a relative) that you often can't recognise a novel by the time it's been through the publishers team of experts. So I suspect that the raw material is probably alike in that regard, indie or big-house published. But it's that professional polishing that counts...
I have my novel with a developmental editor, beta readers and then it will go to a copy editor. My novella, that I'm trying to polish but find myself procrastinating, was to be released in the coming weeks. Now I'm thinking that I can't risk it. It will have to go through the same sort of process.
I think that indie writers are judged more harshly than their published peers. I've been told by an ex-publisher (a relative) that you often can't recognise a novel by the time it's been through the publishers team of experts. So I suspect that the raw material is probably alike in that regard, indie or big-house published. But it's that professional polishing that counts...
Georgina wrote: "Another point I noted, as to why so many reviewers don't take on indie writers, was that it's not just horrible experiences with author rudeness, but also dealing with lack of quality, in terms of ..."I was having trouble thinking up a coherent opinion to reply until I read this recent article concerning the reader-author relationship and came across comment #56 from that article.
Kinsey said it best so I will quote him.
IMO–and I’m sure self-pubbed authors would view this as condescending or an attempt to delegitimize them but I promise it’s neither–the best self-published material comes from authors who’ve been previously professionally published. Not because the professionally pubbed authors were any better to start with, but because professional publication (whether by traditional NY houses or indie or ebook houses) involves editing, and editing involves being told that X and Y and Z conflict with each other, and you need to cut L, no matter how much you love it, because it’s unnecessary, and you need to fix M, and oh yeah, C is just creepy and disgusting and the reader will gag so lose it, stat. In other words, once you’ve been edited by a professional, there is no cut a reviewer can inflict that will make you bleed as badly. Editors don’t just make your stuff better, they teach you to get over yourself. Getting over yourself is the first step to treating writing like a profession, or at least a trade, which it is–because you are producing a product and asking people to pay for it. And once someone pays good money for something you produced, they have every right to talk about it, and no obligation to take your tender feelings into account.*Bolding is my own. You're so right, it is the professional polishing that counts. You're not alone in that regard. =)
I don't think you should risk it either. Your stories should be polished as it can be, especially if you're asking people to pay for it (speaking from a consumer's POV).
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Another point I noted, as to why so many reviewers don't take on indie writers, was that it's not just horrible experiences with author rudeness, but also dealing with lack of qual..."
'...negative reviews and the controversy surrounding them can sell a book as fast or faster than a glowing review...'
This is a given in the art world, where opinions can vary so much.
And the quote from Kinsey is spot on.
My literary agent was tough (all due thanks and respect to her, for her help). I sent her my first draft in 2005 and she let me know in no uncertain terms how bad it really was. I was devastated. I knew she would have me as a writer if I redrafted it, but I felt personally shamed. As if my writing was somehow a reflection of me.
I went away and brooded for a while. I redrafted. A year later I sent the new manuscript back to her. She signed me on. I then rewrote the manuscript another four times over the following years. I have now reached the stage where I am excited to find out what is wrong with it! Very different, indeed. I want to see all the flaws, every single one of them so that I can address them.
I'm not saying it won't hurt if people don't enjoy the book when it's released, but if I can feel satisfied that I've written it as well as I can, then I can move on to another story.
And yes, I'll get a second editor for my novella. I think that's why I was procrastinating, that and a little bit of stage fright.
:) Georgina
'...negative reviews and the controversy surrounding them can sell a book as fast or faster than a glowing review...'
This is a given in the art world, where opinions can vary so much.
And the quote from Kinsey is spot on.
My literary agent was tough (all due thanks and respect to her, for her help). I sent her my first draft in 2005 and she let me know in no uncertain terms how bad it really was. I was devastated. I knew she would have me as a writer if I redrafted it, but I felt personally shamed. As if my writing was somehow a reflection of me.
I went away and brooded for a while. I redrafted. A year later I sent the new manuscript back to her. She signed me on. I then rewrote the manuscript another four times over the following years. I have now reached the stage where I am excited to find out what is wrong with it! Very different, indeed. I want to see all the flaws, every single one of them so that I can address them.
I'm not saying it won't hurt if people don't enjoy the book when it's released, but if I can feel satisfied that I've written it as well as I can, then I can move on to another story.
And yes, I'll get a second editor for my novella. I think that's why I was procrastinating, that and a little bit of stage fright.
:) Georgina
Just a few late comments:I would never try to defend my work against a negative review, but I would respond with a "thank you."
I try (sometimes I miss one) to send my reviewers a thank you note. I do not thank them for a positive review and I do not argue with a negative review, but I appreciate them taking the time to read and review my work.
I recently got a 3.5 star review rounded down to 3. I sent my standard thank you to the reviewer and commented that I understood AND appreciated the thing they criticized because it was a matter of taste. I took a chance in sending that message, but the review was thoughtful enough that I could "trust" the reviewer to take it the right way. Now, the reviewer wants to read the second book.
I feel bad for not being able to thank people for a positive review. If they respond to my "bland" thank you with a comment on something specific, then I feel ok in having a further conversation.
"Thank you's" from authors can turn readers into fans. And that's what we all want: fans. Some of my readers have turned into internet friends and more.
The LAST thing I want to do is ignore readers, especially if they have become fans. I have seen authors do that (usually big names) and it looks almost as bad as an author defending their book against a bad review. I want a connection with my readers IF they want it.
More on this later, but I just did a guest blog post for a reviewer/blogger where WE BREAK THE RULES (by mutual consent) and I respond to a review that contains both good and not-so-good points about one of my books. I think readers, reviewers, and other authors will appreciate it and maybe get a giggle or two out of it.
let's face it, if you are an author who is humble, you can AND WILL find the negative even in a positive review lol. Maybe that's how it should be, but I also hear a lot of authors saying the same thing. We are masochists.
Splitter
C.S. Splitter wrote: "Just a few late comments:
I would never try to defend my work against a negative review, but I would respond with a "thank you."
I try (sometimes I miss one) to send my reviewers a thank you note..."
I like this reply, Splitter.
'The LAST thing I want to do is ignore readers, especially if they have become fans. I have seen authors do that (usually big names) and it looks almost as bad as an author defending their book against a bad review. I want a connection with my readers IF they want it.'
I came across a writer whose work I really enjoyed, when I first joined smashwords (and I reviewed two of her novellas). I've now found her and friended her on goodreads.
As a reader this is a wonderful opportunity. As with all of my favourite writers, I'm interested in when and what she's releasing next. I get to know a little more about her, how she creates her worlds. It allows me to feel further connected with her work (not sure I've described that well--it's very early here, still yawning and blinking).
This is good reader-author interaction (yes, I know I'm a writer too, but in this case I feel far more like a reader). As readers will do, I sought her out, found her blog and posted a comment. She thanked me (and for the previous reviews), and her polite response furthered my regard for her as an author and for her work.
So, I agree that a negative response to a review is absolutely out of the question but a 'thank you' feels right (no matter the rating--although it might seem fake if it's for a one star :)).
I don't 'like' reviews of my books on goodreads though. I'll opt out of that one, for when I do get a one star, I would feel hypocritical liking it.
Hope that makes sense. Think I'll stagger off and make a cup of coffee now...
I would never try to defend my work against a negative review, but I would respond with a "thank you."
I try (sometimes I miss one) to send my reviewers a thank you note..."
I like this reply, Splitter.
'The LAST thing I want to do is ignore readers, especially if they have become fans. I have seen authors do that (usually big names) and it looks almost as bad as an author defending their book against a bad review. I want a connection with my readers IF they want it.'
I came across a writer whose work I really enjoyed, when I first joined smashwords (and I reviewed two of her novellas). I've now found her and friended her on goodreads.
As a reader this is a wonderful opportunity. As with all of my favourite writers, I'm interested in when and what she's releasing next. I get to know a little more about her, how she creates her worlds. It allows me to feel further connected with her work (not sure I've described that well--it's very early here, still yawning and blinking).
This is good reader-author interaction (yes, I know I'm a writer too, but in this case I feel far more like a reader). As readers will do, I sought her out, found her blog and posted a comment. She thanked me (and for the previous reviews), and her polite response furthered my regard for her as an author and for her work.
So, I agree that a negative response to a review is absolutely out of the question but a 'thank you' feels right (no matter the rating--although it might seem fake if it's for a one star :)).
I don't 'like' reviews of my books on goodreads though. I'll opt out of that one, for when I do get a one star, I would feel hypocritical liking it.
Hope that makes sense. Think I'll stagger off and make a cup of coffee now...
I like to just message and thank them for taking the time to review it where I can. Some people get a bit weirded out though so not usually anything more public...Splitter, nice to have you back on the forums, was wondering if you were grounded with a massive hangover or stuck in edited, etc....
Georgina, I agree - being basically nosey about characters in people's books, I love to hear a bit more about the books, the worlds, etc!
JAC
J.A. wrote: "I like to just message and thank them for taking the time to review it where I can. Some people get a bit weirded out though so not usually anything more public...
Splitter, nice to have you back ..."
It allows the reader to connect. I'm still very much a reader in my own mind. I love the chance to find new work by new indie writers.
I'm like that as an artist too, my walls are covered with other peoples work. My husband is nervous every time I visit the gallery where my work is showing, as I'm more than likely to come back with a new artwork.
That brings me to another point: as a reader who is also a writer, are my reviews now considered to be circumspect (see above links in thread)?
Now that would peeve me, as I feel I have the right to read, enjoy and review books that I stumble across (I never review anything that I haven't honestly enjoyed). Also, if I enter into the fray with reviews am I likely to receive an angry backlash, if I give three stars (which I take as being 'I enjoyed it', and therefore a positive review)? It would be a shame not to be able to review too. But is it a practice that may rebound on me, and the author whose work I review (as it may be seen as biased coming from another indie writer)?
Splitter, nice to have you back ..."
It allows the reader to connect. I'm still very much a reader in my own mind. I love the chance to find new work by new indie writers.
I'm like that as an artist too, my walls are covered with other peoples work. My husband is nervous every time I visit the gallery where my work is showing, as I'm more than likely to come back with a new artwork.
That brings me to another point: as a reader who is also a writer, are my reviews now considered to be circumspect (see above links in thread)?
Now that would peeve me, as I feel I have the right to read, enjoy and review books that I stumble across (I never review anything that I haven't honestly enjoyed). Also, if I enter into the fray with reviews am I likely to receive an angry backlash, if I give three stars (which I take as being 'I enjoyed it', and therefore a positive review)? It would be a shame not to be able to review too. But is it a practice that may rebound on me, and the author whose work I review (as it may be seen as biased coming from another indie writer)?
I'm about to listen to Far North, because it got some passionately negative reviews by some of my GR friends. It's made me curious. :)
Georgina wrote: "That brings me to another point: as a reader who is also a writer, are my reviews now considered to be circumspect (see above links in thread)?"Your peers might think so. Based all the articles and their comments I read in these past few days, some of your peer will not see your reviews as a just another run-of-the-mill reader but as someone who's just bashing (or sucking up) to the competition. These authors who commented said this is why they stop reviewing, and if they do continue to review, they do it under a pseudonym. Authors are supposed to be professional, but not all will adhere to the professional standard.
I know of one incident where an author reviewed a story as a fellow reader and the story's author took offense and retaliated at the author/reviewer: https://lissawrites.wordpress.com/201...
Now from a reader's POV, I said you go girl. It takes some courage to still review books even though you got an author's hat on. Every readers I talked to (so far) said they prefer if authors keep reviewing if that was the authors' hobby. We readers aren't stupid, we can tell quickly if an author is not reviewing but just plain bashing her competition, like in the mentioned incident a paragraph above.
Phoebe North, Jennifer Estep, and KT Grant are three authors who still review. They were readers and reviewers before they were published authors, and they are still readers and reviewers after being published.
C.S. Splitter wrote: "Just a few late comments:I would never try to defend my work against a negative review, but I would respond with a "thank you."
I try (sometimes I miss one) to send my reviewers a thank you note..."
There are many reasons why readers find it uncomfortable when authors thank a review, regardless whether the review is positive or negative. From this article and its comment, I'll list some of those reasons for convenience's sake.
1) You're sucking up.
2) You're intruding readers-only space.
3) You're intimidating other readers from commenting.
4) You're playing the nepotism game.
5) You're violating the reviews-are-only-for-readers rule.
6) You're perpetuating the reviews-are-critique myth.
7) You're pressuring readers to read your other books.
Sometime readers are okay with authors thank you-ing, but sometime they are not. Sometime thank you's just means thank you's, but sometime they are not. It really just depends, some readers can be prickly. *shrug*
For me personally, the most I am comfortable with is authors like-buttoning my review. Anything more than that makes me suspicious. If I want to contact authors, I'll do on their turf. =)
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "That brings me to another point: as a reader who is also a writer, are my reviews now considered to be circumspect (see above links in thread)?"
Your peers might think so. Based a..."
I think, unfortunately, that you might be right, Experiment.
I also hadn't thought of the possibility that people might think I'm trying to smooze or bash. I do gush when I find a favourite writer or artist, that's my nature, gushy or grumpy, and not often in between :).
So I'm going to give one last review for the book I'm finishing now, because I love it and I'm giving it five stars, gushy or not. Then, that's it. I'll continue to read and love indie books and I'd add my favourite writers to my own website (as I've already started doing) and on my facebook page.
A pity, but I can foresee the problems that might lie in store for me if I continuing writing reviews.
Georgina.
Your peers might think so. Based a..."
I think, unfortunately, that you might be right, Experiment.
I also hadn't thought of the possibility that people might think I'm trying to smooze or bash. I do gush when I find a favourite writer or artist, that's my nature, gushy or grumpy, and not often in between :).
So I'm going to give one last review for the book I'm finishing now, because I love it and I'm giving it five stars, gushy or not. Then, that's it. I'll continue to read and love indie books and I'd add my favourite writers to my own website (as I've already started doing) and on my facebook page.
A pity, but I can foresee the problems that might lie in store for me if I continuing writing reviews.
Georgina.
Here's another one (authors behaving badly). I wasn't sure whether to post it here, or in the 'Misconception of Editing' thread.
http://www.amazon.com/forum/meet%20ou...
http://www.amazon.com/forum/meet%20ou...
Suki wrote: "I don't think a range of constellations from one to five is a required element for integrity or credibility as a reviewer. Integrity has nothing to do with your choice to post reviews primarily fo..."I totally agree with you girlie.
It's rare that I post a bad review esp if I've been asked to review it.
But if I bought it and it was just plain awful or a lot of plot flaws, I'd leave a respectful but negative review.
Now have I done that lately?
No cause I'm too busy to read anymore....except I just started your book and am loving it!!!
Hiedi over at Rainy Day Ramblings: http://rainydayramblings.typepad.com/ was kind enough to have me on for a guest post.This post is REALLY about how writers SHOULD NOT respond to reviews. So, I break that rule (it's what I do here!). See my response to Heidi's very thoughtful review. I think you all will be able to relate no matter which side of the fence you occupy.
Then you will know why authors should never respond to reviews...
Splitter
Dude, I love ya Splits but as a reader, NOTHING pleases me more than when an author contacts me about a review.Unless they act like a "donkey"
Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "Unless they act like a "donkey""Which thankfully, most don't. =D
Oo, and the drama I spoke about a couple posts back made the news... for the 2nd time: http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by...
Experiment wrote: "Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "Unless they act like a "donkey""
Which thankfully, most don't. =D
Oo, and the drama I spoke about a couple posts back made the news... for the 2nd time: http://ww..."
I'm going to disable my smashwords review notification. Feedback is good, but I don't think it's healthy (at least not for me) to get fixated on ratings and approval. It creates a block.
I accidently followed a link to the amazon forum yesterday. I wouldn't have gone there if I'd realised. Indie writers may have withdrawn from the forum but the battle rages on. It made me feel as if I should have a leper's bell, to warning prospect readers of my uncleanliness. Won't be going back again.
Karen Springen's article is interesting, so too the comment from Kara Malinczak: ''Maybe for you reviews have lost credibility. But as a book blogger, I wouldn't be getting review copies left and right if my opinion/review didn't matter. Internet reviews are the wave of the future. We just need to work the kinks out of the system.''
Now I'm going back to writing. I swore I wouldn't be tempted into chatting in threads, but it's pretty hard to resist the creative reviews ones.
:) Georgina.
Which thankfully, most don't. =D
Oo, and the drama I spoke about a couple posts back made the news... for the 2nd time: http://ww..."
I'm going to disable my smashwords review notification. Feedback is good, but I don't think it's healthy (at least not for me) to get fixated on ratings and approval. It creates a block.
I accidently followed a link to the amazon forum yesterday. I wouldn't have gone there if I'd realised. Indie writers may have withdrawn from the forum but the battle rages on. It made me feel as if I should have a leper's bell, to warning prospect readers of my uncleanliness. Won't be going back again.
Karen Springen's article is interesting, so too the comment from Kara Malinczak: ''Maybe for you reviews have lost credibility. But as a book blogger, I wouldn't be getting review copies left and right if my opinion/review didn't matter. Internet reviews are the wave of the future. We just need to work the kinks out of the system.''
Now I'm going back to writing. I swore I wouldn't be tempted into chatting in threads, but it's pretty hard to resist the creative reviews ones.
:) Georgina.
Shane, thanks for starting this discussion -- I'm late to the party as always, since I've not had time for serious Goodreads activity for over 6 months. But I'm glad I stopped into this thread. This is one of my pet peeves.I'm right there with you and Suki that a book which bores me hardly commands enough of my energy to motivate me to go on and actually write a review for it--I'd much rather move on to something more worthy. I part ways, however, where I run into a book I dislike.
I wrote a seriously negative review of I am Number Four forex. Someone started flaming me in the comments on my review (which I thought was hilarious that they think I'm not entitled to dislike the book). People really get emotional about books sometimes. I felt so motivated to write a negative review for that book, in part, because the first part (written by the original author) was so phenomenally well-written that the utter lack of talent in the balance of the book was almost painful to read afterwards. Plus I kind of liked the movie better and I don't feel that should ever happen. Or rarely.
I felt motivated to write the negative review not merely to trash the way Harper Collins handled getting a ghost writer to do a crap job at finishing the book and then dressing it up in such fancy packaging as though the glitter would distract enough from the lack of writing my ignorant reader's mind wouldn't notice or something. It was insulting, to say the least, but I was really motivated because I didn't know the behind-the-scenes story of what had happened with that book before I started reading it (not until I mentioned the sharp shift in voice and execution ability in the middle to someone else) and I did know the movie was out at the time and doing well. I wanted to "warn" others I guess.
I think I've written a handful of other bad reviews over the years. I don't think it's a bad thing to write bad reviews but like you guys, I just don't care enough to bother if I didn't like the book ;-) I find it hilarious that someone would bother to write you, Shane, and accuse you of nefarious intent just because you LIKED the books you CHOSE to review. What a riot. Some people, huh?
I believe the #1 point of a review is to share my opinion with other readers--or potential readers. If I have nothing useful to say, whether good, bad or mediocre, then I don't review the book at all. Of course, I also have the issue of not having time to write the reviews for all the books I want to remark on--I have about 800 or 1000 more I'd like to find time to add to my profile here on GR forex but having written this post just replaced the time I'd spend on a book review ;-) Can't do it all!
-sry
Erin wrote: "I have a question that relates to this thread. If an author puts out a call for people to read and review their book and I do and it's really God awful... I mean I hate to be harsh, but they asked for reviews, right? I don't mean it's not to my taste, but there's no story, nothing makes sense, the writing is not just a little badly edited but reads like the writer doesn't understand basic mechanics of language... What then? I mean they did ask for reviews... I don't know. And also, I feel like if people don't right well thought out negative reviews when a book is bad then the only negative reviews will be trollish or mindless or the book's rating will skew much to high. I feel like a lot of the reviews on Amazon skew crazy high for average books.
Just my two cents. "
Erin, good points, esp. about the well-thought out negative reviews people need to write (or right *grin*) for those books they did not like. I personally feel it's just as important to have useful negative reviews as it is useful positive ones. The keyword, obviously, being useful.
The key to writing a useful review--especially a negative one--is to mention what worked and what did not--and why, not merely personal or subjective remarks. Saying I don't like it is a personal, subjective opinion and tells future readers nothing at all about the book. After all, they don't know if they like you or share your opinions so why should they care what you liked or didn't like? Give a reason for not liking it and suddenly, your opinion has weight that a total stranger can measure for themselves.
The biggest problem readers--who as Suki said, and CRACKED me the *bleep* up saying it, are NOT professional reviewers or editors, just readers--have is separating the person (author) from the problem (book). If you can, try to state specifically what happened in the book that made you think it was bad. If a character did something for no apparent reason, then state that--maybe phrase it as "there was no history or motivation for this character to make that choice, so the author dropped the ball." and if that character is not alone in making AuthorConvenient choices, suggest the author extended this omnipotent decision-making to other characters, no one seemed to have any past or foundation. Or maybe it's that the characters were 2-dimensional for you so you couldn't connect to anyone? It's actually better not to say "the author did this or that" than it is to say how it affected you, the reader. See? I'm trying to say how to phrase it and still falling prey to the connection of the person to the problem!
Trolling bad reviews is a really big problem and even worse are the paid-for positive reviews. I can't believe people are SELLING REVIEWS for like $5/review. Sick. I don't want reviews that aren't from real people that actually read my book. I don't need everyone to love my stuff, just so long as they actually read it !!
-sry
Sarah, the Webbiegrrl Writer wrote: "Erin wrote: "I have a question that relates to this thread. If an author puts out a call for people to read and review their book and I do and it's really God awful... I mean I hate to be harsh, bu..."
!!!:):) (translation--I emphatically agree with this post, especially the part about constructive negative reviews and that the book needs to be separated from the author and the SELLING REVIEWS thing).
!!!:):) (translation--I emphatically agree with this post, especially the part about constructive negative reviews and that the book needs to be separated from the author and the SELLING REVIEWS thing).
I believe negative reviews are important, but you have to have the proof in the pudding to back it. Analyse what you didn't like about it and tell people, because there are people who have like mind and would be happy to spend their beans on a book more to their liking. And I believe that all 5 star reviews look hokey. I got pulled into a book riddled with 5 star reviews and hated it. So I wrote my review and explained what, to me, was wrong with the book. Others responded that they agreed. Others, however, heartily disagreed! As long as you're honest, and tell the author where their story went wrong without bashing them in the nose with it, I think most will appreciate it and learn from it. And I think other readers have a right to know that not *everyone* in the world loved the book and thought it was flawless.
I see negative reviews like this. No one's going to want a negative review but not everyone's going to like your book. It's good to have negative reviews because it makes the book more substantial and creditable. A few makes this so, if you have a lot of bad reviews or more than good then chances are your work may not be that good, but this is very rare I'm sure. It's another thing to not let a negative review get you down, the person is merely expressing their opinion which in this case is they didn't care for your book but even so you take this critique and look at it positively. Don't bash the person cause they didn't enjoy your book( I mean unless they flat out tell you you suck at writing which by all means go ahead and defend yourself) but be professional about it. It's also motivation to improve but at the same time not to proof that very person wrong, you don't need to proof one person wrong cause you know the truth and you know how good you are. Overall, A negative review makes us human, its going to happen and it just lets us take in all aspects to the simple fact that not everyone is going to like it, and you know what? That's okay.
Justin wrote: "I see negative reviews like this. No one's going to want a negative review but not everyone's going to like your book. It's good to have negative reviews because it makes the book more substantial ..."
I've now had two, one star ratings for 'The Woman of the Well' on Barnes and Noble. People really, really hate the ending (but I'm happy with it). And Crystalline, which I consider to be my weakest fairy tale (and others have agreed on this) just received a five star rating ("Beautifully done modern fairy tale"). So it's definitely up to taste.
The one star ratings don't hurt a bit. Not even if I get twenty for the same story. But higher ratings with constructive criticism that I suspect to be true, affects me much more.
I'm going to un-publish the first short story instalment in my fantasy series in a couple of months as I agree that it's rushed and the characters aren't filled out enough (It's going to my developmental editor).
I've now had two, one star ratings for 'The Woman of the Well' on Barnes and Noble. People really, really hate the ending (but I'm happy with it). And Crystalline, which I consider to be my weakest fairy tale (and others have agreed on this) just received a five star rating ("Beautifully done modern fairy tale"). So it's definitely up to taste.
The one star ratings don't hurt a bit. Not even if I get twenty for the same story. But higher ratings with constructive criticism that I suspect to be true, affects me much more.
I'm going to un-publish the first short story instalment in my fantasy series in a couple of months as I agree that it's rushed and the characters aren't filled out enough (It's going to my developmental editor).
Creative Reviews
Books mentioned in this topic
Force of Nature (other topics)Be the Media (other topics)
Stories I Only Tell My Friends (other topics)
I Am Number Four (other topics)
Westerly Gales (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Kris Bock (other topics)Suzanne Brockmann (other topics)
Phoebe North (other topics)
Jennifer Estep (other topics)
K.T. Grant (other topics)
More...
:) :)