Clockwork Prince
discussion
Jace is a descendant of Will or Cecily? What is Tessa and can she have children?
Francisca wrote: "Mhmmm I thought the Clockwork Angel referred to Tessa's necklace that for some weird unknown reason Nate told her to never take it off (am I the only one feeling something weird about THAT?) Also, ..."yeah, i think we can't count on jace's appearence since i think his light hair and whatever are a result of the angel blood valentines injected him with. also, cassie clare is starting a new series in 2015 featuring a girl who lives in modern day LA names emma CARSTAIRS!!! so who knows what to believe anymore....?
Maybe one of the boys adopts and has the chikd take his last name. Since Tessa is sterile and we have yet to figure out how this works out.
Or maybe if Tessa where to transform into someone else durinig the er...concieving and whatnot she could have children then. Sigh. I don't know.
i just dont see how that would fit since that wouldnt give Tessa her powers, she would just be a shadowhunter with a strange feature. Maybe someone experimented on her when she was little, or maybe her mother, so that is how she got her powers.
Abby wrote: "i just dont see how that would fit since that wouldnt give Tessa her powers, she would just be a shadowhunter with a strange feature. Maybe someone experimented on her when she was little, or maybe..."i am not sure if Cassandra Clare would do that since that is very close to what happened to Clary and Jace in MI but it makes sense sort of so we cant completely rule it out
Lena wrote: "It is confirmed by author that Jace and Will are related. So it must be through Will or his sister. What do you think?I'm totally Team Will and hope that he and Tessa will end up together somehow,..."
where does it say that Tessa talked to Magnus?
Maya wrote: "Lena wrote: "It is confirmed by author that Jace and Will are related. So it must be through Will or his sister. What do you think?I'm totally Team Will and hope that he and Tessa will end up toge..."
in one of the MI books, i think it was either City of Glass or City of Fallen Angels, anyway Clary saw him talking to some girl and later Cassandra Clare confirmed it was Tessa
Okay, from what I’ve gathered, I have enough to form my own convoluted theory about Tessa and where she came from. So here goes…Remember that faerie at the masquerade ball? The one who could see through Tessa’s disguise? She was talking to Tessa and brought the subject of Changlings out of the blue. Tessa asked the faerie if she was a Changling, but the faerie laughed and said no. I think that faerie was just dancing around the truth, messing with Tessa. She has to tell the truth, since she’s fey, but she could mean that Tessa’s MOTHER, Elizabeth, was the Changling, not Tessa herself. It would explain how the faerie knew Elizabeth. She talks about Elizabeth’s hair and eyes and how much Tessa looks like her. (The faerie, Hyacinth, would know Elizabeth if Elizabeth grew up with the faeries.) So, Tessa’s mother was a Changling. But let me go back a bit…
Elizabeth was Aloysius Starkweather’s daughter/granddaughter. She was taken as an infant from the York Institute. She was a healthy Shadowhunter who was switched with a sick faerie infant. That faerie became Adele Starkweather, the blond girl in the picture at the York Institute. Tessa described her as "a very young girl with long, fair hair...Her face was pale, thin and sickly, but her eyes were bright - the only bright thing in this dark place... she must be Starkweather's daughter, no, granddaughter, I think". This was the sick faerie. That might also explain why Tessa was weirdly drawn to Adele’s picture. It might also explain why Starkweather let Tessa, Will, and Jem in when they thought he was going to kick them out. He recognized Tessa; most likely not enough to place her, since he last saw Elizabeth when she was an infant, but enough to have a feeling that he should let her in.
So, the fey took Elizabeth, a Shadowhunter, from her home as a child and switched her out with a sick faerie so they could “strengthen their bloodline”. But you’d think a Shadowhunter would be of no use to the fey, since Shadowhunter blood is always completely dominant. A Shadowhunter plus a faerie would not produce a stronger faerie, only a Shadowhunter. Faeries usually use a healthy mundane as a Changling. But if the fey found a way to let a Shadowhunter breed with a faerie and get a faerie, the result would undoubtedly be a baby stronger that that of a faerie and a mundane.
So, the faeries teamed up with Mortmain, a crazy guy known for his experiments on living things, who could turn clockwork things into people-ish creatures, and who is also known for having many Downworlder contacts. Mortmain messed around with Tessa's mom, injecting her with who-knows-what. From there, Tessa’s mom escapes the fey and Mortmain, and his surely painfully procedures. I mean, who wants to be experimented on by a crazy dude and a bunch of faeries? She hides in NYC, seeking shelter with “Aunt” Harriet, who is probably just a friend of hers. Or if she was really young when she escaped, Harriet’s parents might have adopted Elizabeth. That would explain why neither Harriet nor Nate were Shadowhunters. A few years after Nate is born, Elizabeth is impregnated (sorry, I don't know any other better word for that) by a demon, Tessa's father.
Someone, maybe Will, had said that the children of Shadowhunters and demons are always stillborn and that there have been no exceptions. Only mundanes and demons produce warlocks. But if Mortmain tampered with Elizabeth when she was still living with the fey, then whatever he did to her could have made her less of a Shadowhunter, in a way, and allowed her blood to mix with a demon’s. This would have been his purpose, anyway, if he was trying to get a Shadowhunter that could mix with the fey. (A lesser Shadowhunter could breed with fey and produce fey, not Shadowhunter, just as a lesser Shadowhunter could breed with a demon and get, well, Tessa, and not a stillborn baby.) That would explain why the Clave and the Silent Brothers have never seen anything like Tessa. Nothing like that had ever happened before. It would also explain the lack of a warlock mark; Tessa has Shadowhunter blood. This might also allow Tessa to have children in the future.
This also explains why Mortmain said he created Tessa. If it weren't for his meddling with Elizabeth, Tessa's parents would have been a demon and a full-blooded Shadowhunter, producing a stillborn Tessa. His tampering is only thing that allowed Tessa to be born. Tessa's mom died young, when Tessa was only 3 years old, possibly due to Mortmain experimenting with her system, although she still outlived her faerie Changling counterpart. Harriet would never have told Tessa the truth, because she would have wanted to protect Tessa from Mortmain, who surely would have come looking for her.
This next little bit depends on whether Mortmain attempted to make Elizabeth more mundane or more fey, in order to get her to breed with the fey. If he was trying for mundane, this next part doesn't make sense. But if he was trying for fey, then this whole theory might explain why Hyacinth, the faerie at the ball, could see through Tessa's disguise. Hyacinth says "it's just that my kind can see though it [Tessa’s illusion]." Can fey see through every illusion (doubtful), or just Tessa's, since whatever Mortmain injected Elizabeth with would have made Elizabeth a little more fey? That would make Tessa a tiny bit fey, and it might be that her shape shifting power is a result of her faerie blood, allowing Hyacinth and other faeries to see through it.
So there you have it!! That's my random, convoluted guess!
Alex Insomniac (The Reader) wrote: "kay, well, I've seen some very interesting theories here (most of them more likely then my own). Jem and Tessa could have kids, but the Carstairs family name does have to be carried on. Say they ha..."Good thought but in the yet to be revealed series the Carstairs name lives on..the one 5 yrs after MI
Maybe tessa is part shadowhunter and part demon? That would be cool.. I think that Jace is Will and tessa's grandson?
Sunny wrote: "Maybe tessa is part shadowhunter and part demon? That would be cool.. I think that Jace is Will and tessa's grandson?"you cant be just part shadowhunter and part demon because that would produce a stillborn child. She would have to be part something else or experimented on or something
Okay. I am confused someone explain to me. Tessa was in City Of Glass????!?!?! I need to reread that book obviously.
i think that Tessa can give birth because she is a warlock but her mother is a shadowhunter but remember shadowhunter blood is dominant so she must be a shadowhunter but has a special power of shape-shifting...........so i think, its my own theory, that Tessa can give birth.
Abby wrote: "Sunny wrote: "Maybe tessa is part shadowhunter and part demon? That would be cool.. I think that Jace is Will and tessa's grandson?"you cant be just part shadowhunter and part demon because that ..."
She was in the epilogue. Magnus was talking to her at the celebration of the defeat of Valentine.
of course Jace is the descendant of Will... Cecily cannot pass on the Herondale name.
and as for the looks.. ummm Maryse has Blue eyes and black hair..so they could have gotten their looks from her..
Beth wrote: "Anyone else think that perhaps there is some weird twist reminiscent of Pearl Harbor going on here where Tessa and Jem conceive, low and behold he dies, and in steps Will to raise his best friends ..."I don't think that's what going to happen. It's a possibility, but I don't think Will would be with Tessa after Jem died because he would feel like he was intruding, even though he's dead.
Rashika wrote: "of course Jace is the descendant of Will... Cecily cannot pass on the Herondale name."
maybe Cecily & Gabriel get married & thats why Alec looks like Will. maybe Gideon, having trained & studied at the Madrid Institute got influenced to take Sophie's last name when he marries her, & thus follows Gabriel to do the same with Cecily...Its pretty common for spaniards to take the wife's last name
maybe Cecily & Gabriel get married & thats why Alec looks like Will. maybe Gideon, having trained & studied at the Madrid Institute got influenced to take Sophie's last name when he marries her, & thus follows Gabriel to do the same with Cecily...Its pretty common for spaniards to take the wife's last name
There isnt any Carstairs in the mortal instruments but the main chacter in the new series the dark artifacts is called Emma Carstairs.
♈Adrianne wrote: "Rashika wrote: "of course Jace is the descendant of Will... Cecily cannot pass on the Herondale name."maybe Cecily & Gabriel get married & thats why Alec looks like Will. maybe Gideon, having tra..."
You know it could be possible that one of them marries a trueblood.... because Maryse has the same blue eyes and black hair. But now that i think about it, it seems more likely that Cecily and Gabriel get married.
oh but they arent spanish, they are British its only that Gidieon went to the institute in Spain.
Rashika wrote: "♈Adrianne wrote: "Rashika wrote: "of course Jace is the descendant of Will... Cecily cannot pass on the Herondale name."
maybe Cecily & Gabriel get married & thats why Alec looks like Will. maybe ..."
I understand that but Gabriel & Gideon beingg brothers, Gabriel could have followed in his brother's footsteps. Just speculating, we won'tactually know until March :( *sighs*
maybe Cecily & Gabriel get married & thats why Alec looks like Will. maybe ..."
I understand that but Gabriel & Gideon beingg brothers, Gabriel could have followed in his brother's footsteps. Just speculating, we won'tactually know until March :( *sighs*
Kay wrote: "Okay, from what I’ve gathered, I have enough to form my own convoluted theory about Tessa and where she came from. So here goes…Remember that faerie at the masquerade ball? The one who could see..."
Awesome theory! Seriously. Now we just need Clockwork Princess (and maybe City of Heavenly Fire) to come out so we can FINALLY know!!!
Hold on!Jace's last name is "Wayland," right?
In the Clockwork Prince, the Consul of the Council's name is Wayland.
Jace is related to Consul Wayland.
Citrine wrote: "Hold on!Jace's last name is "Wayland," right?
In the Clockwork Prince, the Consul of the Council's name is Wayland.
Jace is related to Consul Wayland."
No jace isnt, Wayland was his fake name.
Citrine wrote: "Jace is related to Consul Wayland."Jace is a Herondale :)
grr im reading the comments and theres so much POSSIBILITIES! I dont know what to think! i just need the book now and everything will hopefully be clarified
Geez, there are so many possibilities. Am I the only one that gets confused thinking about all the possible family ties,who ends up with who, how their physical characteristics were possible, etc. It makes my brain hurt. Can I just say, thank god for the family tree at the end of CoHF.
hmm. i agree that cecily will end up with gabriel. that would explain the genetics. honestly i don't think tessa will end up with either jem or will. now, i could just be thinking this to be negative but, if you think about it, they are really in a lose-lose situation. this is one of those books i just don't see ending happily. at all. which i am fine with. how jace and stephen come into existence then is a mystery.thankfully, clare said she will post family trees at the end of CP2 :)
I actually think that will and tessa will end up together. U know how we know that Jace is related to Will now? And *spoiler* in city of glass its also revealed that Cecile Herondale is jace's mother?? Will seems to be very fond/close to Cecily(from TID) so what if he passed down the name to his kids/grandkids/greatgrandkids and finally to Cecile in TMI? The name Cecile and Cecily are awfully close....Oh lord whatever. Its just a guess.
And yes, im pretty sure Tessa is able to have kids even though we see her in *spoiler* city of glass due to the fact that she is an immortal warlock. Am i right? But tessa is 'special', we know that. She doesnt have the mark of the warlock, but she is immortal just like one?! It really puzzles me. Oh well, only have to wait til march 2013. -.- so far awaaaaaay
Amy wrote: "I actually think that will and tessa will end up together. U know how we know that Jace is related to Will now? And *spoiler* in city of glass its also revealed that Cecile Herondale is jace's moth..."Wasn't Jace's mom's name Celine? That's kind of a stretch from Cecily, but hey, this book is full of weird surprises.
Rosie wrote: "In clcokwork angel, he says 'your mother didnt know she was being unfaithfull' so maybe tessas father had the ability to shape shift, and Was disguised as Tessa's mothers, husband. I think tessa is..."gijjer wrote: "Nah Tessa is definetely immortal.
She is in the end of CoG
She is supposedly still freinds with magnus (He says she is the one constant in his ever changing life)
Cassy has confirmed one of the ..."
Beth wrote: "Jamieson wrote: "Nah Tessa is definetely immortal.
She is in the end of CoG
She is supposedly still freinds with magnus (He says she is the one constant in his ever changing life)
Cassy has conf..."
ooh! where's this snippet in the book? i can't remember reading it
If Jace was descendant of Cecily, how is that he kept "Herondale"? If Cecily marry, she will no longer be a Herondale. That's why I think Jace is Will's descendant.
No but Cassie said that Will and Jace are related. So Bleh and i am pretty sure he is Will descendant.
Oh pleah i dunno. This series is so full of surprises, and thats why i love it so much. And yeah, i THINK celine (sorry, i said cecily before but i was wrong lol) is a descendant of Will, right? Right?? Right?!??! lol:)
All in all, i just really really hope that Will and Tessa end up together.
~i'll continue being sad, cause theres one and a half years til CoHF comes out~
All this mystery is starting to give me a headache.
My theory is that Jem dies (It's inevitable unless there's somehow a cure that's later discovered, that or they summon Raziel and ask for Jem to be brought back... seems like something Will would do). Somehow Tessa and Will will (that was so wierd, Will will... lol) end up together. There are no mentions of any Carstairs in The Mortal Instruments, so I'm assuming that line died with Jem. Though that may have been because Jem and Tessa end up together and Tessa is barren? Because if Tessa were to end up with Will, she can't be barren because Will's line leads to Jace.
Now if I knew the actual years, I could probably come up with a time line, but I don't know when Stephen Herondale (Jace's father) was born, which makes it complicated to figure out.
It'd be amusing if Tessa turns out to be a little bit of everything, but right now, I'm leaning towards Tessa being a shadowhunter/demon. Maybe she's a wizard and is unconsciously hiding her wizard mark? I'm assuming she's immortal, because I think she turns up in CoG (City of Glass). I'm hoping she's not barren.
Jace is probably Will's grandson. But that makes no sense, because we know that Jace's father is Stephen Herondale and his mother was Imogen Herondale (City of Ashes) and seriously people, I don't know what she was like before her son died, but I can't imagine Will marrying someone like Imogen, so I'm going to assume that Will is Jace's great (great?) grandfather. I hate that there's a massive gap between the two series where we don't know what happened. *Facepalm*
No, I don't think that Clary is a descendant of Tessa. I think that Tessa does turn out to be barren. I believe that Clry's mother, Jocelyn Fray, later reveals that her surname is Fairchild Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge.
So I'm going to assume that Clary is the descendant of Charlotte Branwell. Because I believe that Charlotte's maiden name was Fairchild before she changed it through marraige. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. What I'm thinking is that Charlotte's child, which according to Clockwork Prince, is going to be a boy. The boy turns out to be Jocelyn's father, making Charlotte Clary's great grandmother.
So overall, I'm developing a headache from all this theorizing so that's that.
My theory is that Jem dies (It's inevitable unless there's somehow a cure that's later discovered, that or they summon Raziel and ask for Jem to be brought back... seems like something Will would do). Somehow Tessa and Will will (that was so wierd, Will will... lol) end up together. There are no mentions of any Carstairs in The Mortal Instruments, so I'm assuming that line died with Jem. Though that may have been because Jem and Tessa end up together and Tessa is barren? Because if Tessa were to end up with Will, she can't be barren because Will's line leads to Jace.
Now if I knew the actual years, I could probably come up with a time line, but I don't know when Stephen Herondale (Jace's father) was born, which makes it complicated to figure out.
It'd be amusing if Tessa turns out to be a little bit of everything, but right now, I'm leaning towards Tessa being a shadowhunter/demon. Maybe she's a wizard and is unconsciously hiding her wizard mark? I'm assuming she's immortal, because I think she turns up in CoG (City of Glass). I'm hoping she's not barren.
Jace is probably Will's grandson. But that makes no sense, because we know that Jace's father is Stephen Herondale and his mother was Imogen Herondale (City of Ashes) and seriously people, I don't know what she was like before her son died, but I can't imagine Will marrying someone like Imogen, so I'm going to assume that Will is Jace's great (great?) grandfather. I hate that there's a massive gap between the two series where we don't know what happened. *Facepalm*
No, I don't think that Clary is a descendant of Tessa. I think that Tessa does turn out to be barren. I believe that Clry's mother, Jocelyn Fray, later reveals that her surname is Fairchild Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge.
So I'm going to assume that Clary is the descendant of Charlotte Branwell. Because I believe that Charlotte's maiden name was Fairchild before she changed it through marraige. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. What I'm thinking is that Charlotte's child, which according to Clockwork Prince, is going to be a boy. The boy turns out to be Jocelyn's father, making Charlotte Clary's great grandmother.
So overall, I'm developing a headache from all this theorizing so that's that.
Jace has to be a descendant of Will's. If it was Cecily, he wouldn't have the surname, Herondale, because of the fact that traditionally, women changed their surnames through marriage.
And his mother's name is Celine Herondale.
And his mother's name is Celine Herondale.
I wondered if Tessa and Magnus were related through having the same Greater Demon father... But then again I'm always wrong so that's just my musing. I always kind of wondered, because I don't remember the Herondale Mark being mentioned either so I wondered if that actually came from Tessa...
wow i am so lost with esplanation i think i need to read the both of the whole series again too bad i have exams in december!and who is cecily?
Jace can be Cecily's descendant only if she is going to have a baby without being married. I wonder if that's possible in that era. Although I think it is possible to have a 'bastard' in Victorian era, most likely the child will be under the father's household, not the mother.I would prefer to have Jace as Will's descendant. They have similar qualities. And to have Will marry Tessa is my bliss.
Shweta wrote: "wow i am so lost with esplanation i think i need to read the both of the whole series again too bad i have exams in december!and who is cecily?"
Cecily is Will's little sister.
Have you finished reading Clockwork Prince? To avoid confusion, it is advisable to read the book before joining a discussion about it... ;)
I think that if Clary is related to Charlotte then both she and Jocelyn got their red hair from Henry's side! But I don't know how they would be Fairchild's if Henry and Charlotte were both Branwell's unless shadowhunters believe in inbreeding, which I highly doubt. I hope that Jem ends up with Cecily and that he is happy and not sick and Tessa ends up with Will. Then I can live with the knowledge that everyone is happy and I can relax and be content again.
Erin wrote: "...I hope that Jem ends up with Cecily and that he is happy and not sick and Tessa ends up with Will. Then I can live with the knowledge that everyone is happy and I can relax and be content again. "Second that. A happy ending for everyone. It only leaves us who the mysterious brother Zach is...
Nurlely wrote: "Erin wrote: "...I hope that Jem ends up with Cecily and that he is happy and not sick and Tessa ends up with Will. Then I can live with the knowledge that everyone is happy and I can relax and be c..."Jessamine of course! :)
Erin wrote: "Jessamine of course! :) "Jessamine is bro Zach????
Hahahaha.... you are so mean!!
Too bad that I don't think the surgeons in Victorian era can perform any plas-ops to change Jessamine' sex..
Nurlely wrote: "Erin wrote: "Jessamine of course! :) "Jessamine is bro Zach????
Hahahaha.... you are so mean!!
Too bad that I don't think the surgeons in Victorian era can perform any plas-ops to change Jessam..."
How unfortunate. I thought I had everything in the story all figured out!
I just remembered that last night when I was getting ready for bed I realized that maybe he's Gideon. What if they don't let Sophie Ascend so he becomes a Silent Brother because he can't have her. And maybe the reason why he said that they owed their help to the Herondale's was because Will must have saves everyone from Mortmain thus continuing the line and lives of Shadowhunters. The 2 people he loved were Gabriel and Sophie and Gabriel went over to the dark side and Sophie couldn't be his. Though the flaw is that he could have just left the shadowhunters and married her. Maybe she died and thats why he gave up and became a silent brother. Just an idea I guess.
Erin wrote: "I just remembered that last night when I was getting ready for bed I realized that maybe he's Gideon. What if they don't let Sophie Ascend so he becomes a Silent Brother because he can't have her...."I wonder. I don't doubt about Will save the world. He will do that for being a shadowhunter. I doubt that even though Will saves the day, Gideon will feel indebted to Will that much, after hundreds of years have passed.
Bro Zach seems to have bits of emotion when he talks about Jace (Herondale), which pass away a feeling he has for Herondale's family to the readers.
I have my own practical theory about the story, based on what I have read so far. I hate it though... the thought of having Will unhappy at the end of the story really destroys my day.
Anna wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Usagi wrote: "Maybe that's the reason clary thinks Tessa looked familiar... Related to Jace? Or that's just part of my wishful thinking..... But we still don't know what Tessa real..."If you don't remeber actually the fey can't lie.
Clary ((a.k.a. Ella)) wrote: "If you don't remeber actually the fey can't lie. "Fey can't lie, but their definition of the truth is different from human being. When the Seelie Queen said that Jace and Clary were brother and sister, she spoke generally, without giving away the fact that they were not blood relatives, but brother and sister, just like the rest of human being.
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i guess not, but that would be no fun!