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Cotillion
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The Books > Freddy from Cotillion - a different style of hero

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message 1: by Abby (new)

Abby (abbygaines) | 8 comments I just re-read Cotillion for the first time in ages. Freddy is so different from other Heyer heroes, I remember the first time I read it, it took me a while to figure out he was actually the hero. But he's lovely. Can anyone think of any other Heyer heroes who are the Freddy type? I must admit, I can't...


message 2: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments There’s no-one quite like Freddy! But there are a few other Heyer heroes who are less aggressively alpha than usual. However, it has to be said that the good-tempered, apparently malleable, nature usually hides a firmness of character which achieves its ends though less direct means! How about:

The Foundling: Gilly, the Duke of Sale
The Quiet Gentleman: Gervase Frant
A Civil Contract: Adam Deveril
False Colours: Christopher Fancot
The Corinthian: Richard Wyndham


Veronica | 108 comments I would say:
Jack Carstares: Black Moth
Jack Staples: Toll Gate
Charles Audley: Infamous army
These are kinda nice guys but not as nice as Freddy i guess.


Ahuja | 28 comments I love Freddy! He's funny and devastatingly sensible and there's just something about him.
I agree with Hj, can't think of anyone quite like Freddy, but there are some who are not quite so alpha as we usually see.
There is also Mr. Beaumaris from Arabella; he's not a rake at least.


message 5: by Kim (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kim (kimmr) | 215 comments I agree there's no hero like Freddy. Heyer took the character who in other books is often the friend of the hero and gave him a book of his own. Another hero who doesn't fit into the alpha male category ( I think Heyer called the alpha males her "Mark I" heroes) is Hugo Darracott from The Unknown Ajax.


message 6: by Abby (new)

Abby (abbygaines) | 8 comments I love both Richard Wyndham and Mr Beaumaris - two of my my favorites! - but I still consider them fairly alpha. Christopher Fancot was nice and a bit gentler. Mus re-read some of those others. Maybe The Foundling next...


Claire | 46 comments Those are some of my favourite rereads.


message 8: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Edgerton (teresaedgerton) | 151 comments I absolutely love Freddy. In another book he would be the hero's somewhat dim-witted friend (in some ways, he is not so different from Ferdy Fakenham) but his goodness, his "address" as Kitty says, his perfect knowledge of the society he lives in ... even his rigid sense of propriety, which in another character might be insufferable ... all these make him adorable. He's the kind of character you can laugh at, but it's always affectionately, never mockery. Overall, I can't think of any Heyer hero who even comes close to Freddy. I agree that it does take a while to figure out that he *is* the hero, but it's obvious pretty early on that it isn't Jack, who is outwardly the typical Heyer reformable rake.


Sophie | 104 comments I loved Freddy!! Bless him and he was a hero, if somewhat different from the typical one, and loved all he did for Kitty when trying to sort out and finish all the things he started!! He was so sweet to Kitty and obliging to her and the way his affection began to grow was very nice!! I also found the ending really romantic actually, and very funny at the same time!!


Ceecee (qquiet) | 39 comments I also thought he was different. He was a dandy, but I love him. He also kind of grows during Cotillion.

Most heroes think nothing of their appearance, or are effortlessly good-looking. But Freddy thinks about what to wear and accessories. It made me look at the Georgian era in a different way. I mean, dandies were all over the place then. I love how Heyer made this kind of hero.
I think he is like Mr Bingley from Pride and Prejudice.

He also reminds me of Gray in Mad Jack Mad Jack (Brides, #4) by Catherine Coulter . :)


Diana Gotsch | 53 comments Freddy is that sweet guy that the girl usually does't notice because he is quiet and not drop dead handsome. He it more "real" than most romance heroes. Think that's part of the reason we all fall in love with him. Part of Heyer's charm is that her characters don't always fit into the traditional romance story boxes.


message 12: by MaryC (new)

MaryC Clawsey | 479 comments Years ago, when I was working on a period novel (which I never finished) and was working on developing the character of the hero, the friend who had fostered my love for Georgette Heyer recommend Cotillion as an example of "how to make an unprepossessing hero prepossessing." I soon saw what she meant!


message 13: by HJ (last edited Dec 06, 2012 11:41PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Yes, it's good to see a master of the craft breaking the rules. Jack would be the obvious "hero" in almost every other Regency romance, but Freddy sneaks up on the inside and leaves him standing - both for Kitty and for the reader.


Ceecee (qquiet) | 39 comments Yes, I love how Heyer's characters are not like other heroes and heroines. Like HJ said, Jack would typically be the "hero" but in Cotillion, he's not. Instead, Freddy, the "nice guy" that's typically a sidekick is the one who shines and gets the girl. Love it!


Sophie | 104 comments I love him being the hero. He is so unexpected and not the traditional hero! He does almost act as the sidekick throughout the story!


message 16: by MaryC (new)

MaryC Clawsey | 479 comments Now that Jack's name has come up, I can say that I silently cheered when Freddy slugged him.


message 17: by Nicole D. (last edited Dec 07, 2012 02:37PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nicole D. (thereadingrebel) | 66 comments Mary wrote: "Now that Jack's name has come up, I can say that I silently cheered when Freddy slugged him."

Who didn't?Even Hugo was cheering if I remember rightly.


Sophie | 104 comments That was Freddy's moment for saying 'I am the hero of this story!' I was not so silently cheering when Freddy did it! Hugo was cheering as well ;)


Ceecee (qquiet) | 39 comments Mary wrote: "Now that Jack's name has come up, I can say that I silently cheered when Freddy slugged him."

I agree. That was the moment. Though it was a relatively simple act, it was big. Gotta love Heyer.


message 20: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Edgerton (teresaedgerton) | 151 comments Jack had that coming throughout the entire story, I thought, so it actually made me feel a little giddy when he finally got his comeuppance -- and of course it was especially sweet coming from Freddy and at the time that it did.

And I liked it that Hugh was both pleased and slightly jealous that it hadn't been him. (One can imagine years of Hugh grinding his teeth at Jack's attitude and antics, and restraining himself with superhuman control.)


message 21: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Teresa wrote: "And I liked it that Hugh was both pleased and slightly jealous that it hadn't been him. (One can imagine years of Hugh grinding his teeth at Jack's attitude and antics, and restraining himself with superhuman control.) ..."

Well, yes, but I wouldn't have minded someone bopping him too. Self-righteous prig!


message 22: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Edgerton (teresaedgerton) | 151 comments I rather like Hugh. Even if he is stiff and self-righteous, he's kind and sincere. So many young men of his time took Holy Orders because they didn't have anything else (suitably genteel) to do, and they fulfilled their duties in the most half-hearted way, so I like it that Hugh takes it seriously and works at it, even if it makes him unpopular with his relatives. I can see how it would be extremely tiresome to have someone like him around, but that doesn't mean he isn't right a lot of the time.

Also, it's sort of a throw-away line, but it's mentioned that Kitty had been accustomed to look to him for advice over the years, so obviously he was someone she trusted and respected.


message 23: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Teresa wrote: "I rather like Hugh. Even if he is stiff and self-righteous, he's kind and sincere. So many young men of his time took Holy Orders because they didn't have anything else (suitably genteel) to do, ..."

Agreed, but I have a problem overlooking his hypocrisy over his proposal to Kitty.


Sathya Sekar (imsathya) | 1 comments I also loved Freddy from the word go. I was so apprehensive that Heyer would stick to the formulae and let Jack win the day. "Now that we really are engaged, I can dashed well give you anything I like".. Utterly adorable to the last page!!

I think Freddy is the hero I had always wanted to see because the characters I loved best in Heyer's books were those foppish brothers who spent most of their time gambling away or drinking. Rupert of "These old shades" and "Devil's cub", Pelham of "A convenient marriage", Ferdinand of "Friday's child". Foolish but adorable. That's what Freddy was!!


Sophie | 104 comments The last page was utterly adorable!


Cheryl (goodreadscomcherylbdale) | 23 comments Imsathya wrote: "I also loved Freddy from the word go. I was so apprehensive that Heyer would stick to the formulae and let Jack win the day. "Now that we really are engaged, I can dashed well give you anything I l..."

I never thought anyone but Freddy would win out! Only for a moment in the beginning did I think Jack might be the hero, but it quickly became obvious who was the man to root for!

Another of my favorites!


Barbara (sema4dogz) | 422 comments And Freddy has the nicest parents too, especially his lovely father.


message 28: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Barbara wrote: "And Freddy has the nicest parents too, especially his lovely father."

Aren't they sweet? His mother was nice, too. But I love the way that Freddy doesn't understand what his father means, and yet they're clearly very fond of each other. I also like the fact that someone who is good-hearted and kind (Freddy) wins rather than the clever, superficially more attractive one (Jack).


Diana Gotsch | 53 comments Freddy is one of a handful of Heyer's Characters that have sweet loving mothers. I wonder why so many of her of her mothers are less than satisfactory.


Megzy | 6 comments Freddy had me on his corner right from the start. His character is actually more complex than all the other male characters in the same book. I believe Freddy had high functioning autism, his above-average intelligence, his obsessive interest in certain items or skills like dancing, his determination and single mindedness, his lack of certain social skills,....

If you do read modern regency books, you might be interested in reading The Madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley. Ian is not as sweet as Freddy but his life circumstances were different when growing up.


message 31: by Teresa (last edited Apr 25, 2013 08:48AM) (new)

Teresa Edgerton (teresaedgerton) | 151 comments That's an interesting idea, Tishke. But surely Freddy's social skills were impeccable? Or do you mean that he had difficulty "reading" other people. That is definitely true. And he took everything everyone said literally; people were always having to explain to him what they really meant. That supports your theory.

I wonder if Heyer modeled Freddy after somone she knew.


message 32: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Teresa wrote: "I wonder if Heyer modeled Freddy after somone she knew...."

That's an interesting question - he is very different to any of her other characters*, but very complete in himself. But in the other hand, authors everywhere are howling that they can create characters themselves, thank you!

* At the back of my mind I'm wondering if someone in Friday's Child is a little like Freddy?


message 33: by Vibhasheth (new)

Vibhasheth | 10 comments The grand sophy and cotillion r my favourites freddy is the real hero he gave kitty a last chance to choose ( jacks proposal at the rectory)before declaring himself proves that his love is selfless


message 34: by Donna (new)

Donna (earthreader) | 47 comments Awww. That's so true. Now you've made me want to re-read the book.


Cheryl (goodreadscomcherylbdale) | 23 comments I've read most of her regencies several times. Each time I read one, that's my favorite for a while. Then I read another one and it's my favorite for a while. Then...


message 36: by Tasha (new) - added it

Tasha Turner (tashaturner) | 30 comments Cheryl wrote: "I've read most of her regencies several times. Each time I read one, that's my favorite for a while. Then I read another one and it's my favorite for a while. Then..."

Same for me


message 37: by Vibhasheth (new)

Vibhasheth | 10 comments Donna pl do read it.dolph is hilarious.& it would make a very good mini series wish the BBC will take note


message 38: by Vibhasheth (new)

Vibhasheth | 10 comments Same here cheryl


Louise Sparrow (louisex) | 456 comments I would love to see Cotillion made properly but given some of the Jane Austen adaptations... I can't think of anyone I would like to see play them any more either. Freddy is definitely one of my favourite hero's.


Janhavi (janhavi88) | 165 comments Freddy is absolutely adorable. I love that book.


Leslie This is a bit off topic, but I was trying to remember the name of Kitty's French cousin... Can someone help me out? You know, the one whose father ran a gambling house.


message 42: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Leslie wrote: "This is a bit off topic, but I was trying to remember the name of Kitty's French cousin... Can someone help me out? You know, the one whose father ran a gambling house."

Camille.


Ellen | 87 comments I was really happy when Kitty finally got past the ego and good looks of Jack and saw them for what they were. Freddy's character of kindness and thoughtfulness finally won out. As they should!


message 44: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments I really can't think of another character like Freddie, who starts the book in such a non-heroic, unassuming way, and slowly, gradually reveals his true kind, unselfish self so that the heroine and we come to love him. Even his parents are surprised at how resourceful he is.

Can anyone think of any other hero like this? (Not limited to Heyer.) I think she was brave to write this book!


Leslie Hj wrote: "Leslie wrote: "This is a bit off topic, but I was trying to remember the name of Kitty's French cousin... Can someone help me out? You know, the one whose father ran a gambling house."

Camille."


Thanks Hj! I kept thinking about this character when I was listening to BBC Radio 4X's "Barry Lyndon"...


message 46: by Mir (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mir | 35 comments Hj wrote: "I really can't think of another character like Freddie, who starts the book in such a non-heroic, unassuming way, and slowly, gradually reveals his true kind, unselfish self so that the heroine and we come to love him. Even his parents are surprised at how resourceful he is.

Can anyone think of any other hero like this? (Not limited to Heyer.) I think she was brave to write this book! "


After recently reading that Lois McMaster Bujold was influenced by Heyer, I realized that I van, the hero of her most recent book, is a lot like Freddy. Captain Vorpatril's Alliance even has a number of plot similarities, enough that I wondered if she had it in mind while writing.


message 47: by HJ (last edited Jan 02, 2014 01:41PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Miriam wrote: "After recently reading that Lois McMaster Bujold was influenced by Heyer, I realized that I van, the hero of her most recent book, is a lot like Freddy. Captain Vorpatril's Alliance even has a number of plot similarities, enough that I wondered if she had it in mind while writing. ..."

That's interesting! I haven't read the book or the author, so I'll go and have a look at them. Thanks!

ETA ohhh. It's science fiction, which I normally avoid. Does the sci-fi-ness play a large part, or could I just pretend that it's the Regency world by another name?


message 48: by Leslie (last edited Jan 02, 2014 06:33PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Leslie Miriam wrote: "After recently reading that Lois McMaster Bujold was influenced by Heyer, I realized that I van, the hero of her most recent book, is a lot like Freddy. Captain Vorpatril's Alliance even has a number of plot similarities, enough that I wondered if she had it in mind while writing..."

Hahaha! I am reading her Vorkosigan series as one of my personal challenges this year so this is good news!

@Hj - I have only read Cordelia's Honor but it was pretty hard-core sci fi space opera.


message 49: by HJ (new) - rated it 4 stars

HJ | 948 comments Leslie wrote: "@Hj - I have only read Cordelia's Honor but it was pretty hard-core sci fi space opera. ..."

Thanks Leslie! I shall look forward to hearing your views on Captain Vorpatril's Alliance and its similarities to Cotillion when you get to it in your challenge.


message 50: by Mir (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mir | 35 comments They're pretty science-fictiony, so if you don't like the genre they're probably not for you. But Captain Vorpatril's Alliance is the most romance-y and certainly most like Heyer, so just start there.


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