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January Outlander Reread - See post 642 on page 13 for this weeks TOPIC!
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Teresita
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rated it 5 stars
Jan 17, 2012 03:25AM
I love how Claire defended and protected Jamie...I think she would've killed anyone who tried to hurt or kill Jamie if she had to. Like when they left MacRannoch's house after they had rescued Jamie from Wentworth and Jack Randall, and Jamie was on his horse and drops of his blood were falling in the snow and Claire tried to cover it up so the english soldiers wouldn't see it and Claire went after the 16 or so year old english soldier/guard and killed him, to keep Jamie from going back to prison if they found out. WOW...She did what she had to do to keep her man safe. That was an intense scene. Poor Jamie.
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Wendy F wrote: "My feelings will not be hurt, start a topic as much as you want! :)My goal is to keep the conversation going.
I'm going to be honest, I couldn't read that part this time. I've read it so m..."
Actually, for me the toughest was in DIA(view spoiler)
I still haven't noticed that scene with Dougal and Geillis! I'm going to have to look back through it and read it again to see.
It's funny that scene didn't stick out to me first time through, but caught it on a reread.
Well, I'm still not as far as all of you due to time constrain. I am up to the part where Claire insinuated that maybe Jamie injured his lip by a "filly".It was the old Horse Master who predicted the marriage between Claire & Jaime here.
"What I have discovered from reading Outlander this time" is why Randall calls Jamie "Alex". Having everyone reading together allows us to learn so much more.
Teresita wrote: "I love how Claire defended and protected Jamie...I think she would've killed anyone who tried to hurt or kill Jamie if she had to. Like when they left MacRannoch's house after they had rescued Jami..."I had forgotten that bit about the drops of blood in the snow - can you imagine? That would be horrifying and wrenching. I can imagine Claire feeling so full of rage and helplessness all at once.
Wendy F wrote: "I still haven't noticed that scene with Dougal and Geillis! I'm going to have to look back through it and read it again to see."I remember the scene, but I didn't put it together with Dougal... although I do remember that Claire rode into the village with him, and I thought it strange that we didn't see him after that. So - LOL - obviously, that was something that I missed. Makes sense, though. I always wondered why Jamie collected Claire that time, but then she needed his help with the lad at the post, didn't she?
Teresita - I do love how Claire protected and defended Jamie. I loved how she focused on one thing at a time... get him free (out of prison), tend to his physical wounds, get him out of Scotland, heal his physical wounds (again!), tend to his psychological wounds - help him to find himself and his inner shelter again... Claire is so good on focusing on what's in front of her and what she can do now.
That's a lesson I'm trying to put into practice in my own life. Claire does worry (as we really see in DiA) but she mostly puts her energies into what she can do right here and right now.
That is so true Lori. I am sure that she had to be that way as a nurse in the war.
Yes, Fawn, doing triage would sure teach you how to focus on what is before you. Can you imagine what would have happened if Claire had thought about the big picture????Get in, get him out, tend any wounds, get somewhere safe, get out of the area.....straight to overwhelmed. Lori is on to something, trying to focus on 'today's' tasks. Good luck!
Dee, haha! I bet you're right about Geili and Dougal. I had forgotten how much Dougal came on the Claire in the cave when Jamie was at Wentworth Prison. He's so manipulative and I want to like him but he really does nothing to redeem himself.
Claire is an amazing women. She's such a brave strong women.
I just finished my reread, I cried and cried. So much that I missed the first time around and I can't wait for our group reread of
... it's hard to wait :)
Wow, Leea, you jumped from the thieves hole through the end really fast. It is such an amazing book!
on my 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc....reading of Outlander made me realize how much time Jamie and Claire spent together before they got married, the 1st time my impression was she fix him up before they got to the castle, she saw him one or two times after that and next thing you knew they were getting married.
Leea wrote: I cant wait for our group re read of DIAI so agree it is such a long time off.
I understand why we are allowing two months but its hard when it only takes you a few days to read each one.
But when you finish one all you want to do is start the next one.
I have joined the 12 Month Ministers Cat Challenge to make me read other books hopefully it will distract me.
I just started doing The Minister's cat challenge. It's a great idea and looks like a ton of fun.
I have a question and hope someone can help me understand something or clear this up:Before Claire married Jamie she walked in on Dougal and Jamie at Castle Leoch and Dougal said he was going to take them both to collects rents etc...this is the trip they make where Jamie and Claire get married. My confusion and question is: Did Dougal have it planned all along for Jamie and Claire to marry or did he just decide that after Dougal took Claire to BJR and BJR hit her in the abdomen (That scene made me so angry...when he told her if she was pregnant she would not be for long)... anyway I just wondered when she interrupted Dougal and Jamie at the stable in Leoch, I wonder if he may have been discussing that with Jamie and seeing if he would agree....or when did he actually tell Jamie to marry Claire? I have been wondering this for a while now...maybe I missed something there. Thanks!
I mean I know Dougal said it was to keep Jack Randall from getting her but since I never trusted him I just wondered what his real motive was. Because I think he was a man who only thought of himself.
I think that Dougal always had that (jamie and Claire getting married) as a back up plan when they left to collect rents. I don't remember Jamie knowing about it before.I also believe that Dougal knew 'what' BJR was... a rapist. It was his way of protecting the MacKenzie clan.
Thanks Leah...I just wondered because Dougal and Jamie seemed so secretive about something at the stables in Castle Leoch that they didn't want her to know...I just got a feeling like they were discussing it. But yeah I could see how Jamie marrying Claire would be back up plan.And why Dougal left Claire alone with BJR at the prison knowing how he is was not right. He should've been there to protect her.
One of the reasons Dougal wanted Jamie to marry Claire is so he would have no claim to the Mackenzie Clan leader seeing where she was English.
Sue wrote: "One of the reasons Dougal wanted Jamie to marry Claire is so he would have no claim to the Mackenzie Clan leader seeing where she was English."Thanks Sue...I just wondered if that was the reason he took Claire along with Jamie as an excuse to have them marry. I could not see why else Dougal wanted to take her along.
Patty wrote: "on my 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc....reading of Outlander made me realize how much time Jamie and Claire spent together before they got married, the 1st time my impression was she fix him up before they got ..."Good catch Patty. I think we read so feverishly we sometimes miss time lines.
Dougal took Claire along so that he could deliver her to BJR. He is still trying to figure out who she is/who she works for (the English or French). Dougal knew BJR was a arsehole, for sure...Dougal was there at Jamie's 2nd flogging, and knew that he attempted to rape Jenny at Lallybroch. I think he quickly discovered she didn't work for the English and found a way to help her & himself (Jamie marrying Claire keeps him from being a candidate for MacKenzie leadership). Dougal took Jamie to use as a pawn. He used Jamie's back scars to stir emotions along the way to elicit donations for the Rising. I imagine Dougal and Jamie's talk at the stable was just Dougal telling Jamie he was to go with him on the trip (but never telling Jamie his true intentions). I never thought Jamie knew that marriage was a possibility on the trip. If he did, he would have made preparations of his own while still at Castle Leoch...I think he would have brought something sweet/romatic for Claire.
What Leah said, haha.
Well said Leah! I agree!
The first time I read the book, I didn't take much notice of the red haired ghost that showed up in the beginning and forgot all about it by the end of the book. The second, third, etc... time around I put two and two together. Kind of creepy...yet provokes thought on what is to come!
Right on, Leah! You said it well!
I just talked my husband into reading Outlander and he was a bit hesitant because he was thinking of a "romance" type of story. I assured him it had action it it and could be brutal at times but was an awesome story. I told him I wanted him to see what makes me melt! He started listening to it at work today and told me he likes Diana's writting and is enjoying itso far. Clair has not even gone through the stones yet! I am excited to have these discussions with him also because in many ways he is my Jamie and I know he feels for me what Jamie feels for Claire :)
Diane wrote: "I just talked my husband into reading Outlander and he was a bit hesitant because he was thinking of a "romance" type of story. I assured him it had action it it and could be brutal at times but wa..."I can identify here. My husband has read the first four books and enjoyed them. He gave up on them simply because of the length as he's a very slow reader.
My husband is a avid reader and always has a few books going so size does not bother him. I want him to love the books as I do but I will be satisfied if he only reads Outlander for now.
KUDOS to your dear husbands!
Thank you Leah...I like the way you put it...makes me understand it better.
I actually just read this part on my re-read and I feel like it should be mentioned also, that just before they leave to collect the taxes Claire tends to the dying man on the boar hunt. Dougal pulls her aside and says "You have seen men die before...violently" and she says "Yes, many of them". I think this definitely raised a red flag for Dougal and Collum. And when she interrupted them in the barn I believe they were just surprised to see her. And if Dougal had told Jamie about his plan to take Claire to BJR already, I can see how Jamie would not like that at all. But then Claire agrees heartily to go with so that she can, hopefully, escape to Craig na dun. I think this might have caused Jamie to think she was with the English as well, so he did not protest...and he went along, probably to protect her. Awww, the gift of the re-read is to see all the ways Jamie loved Claire before he confessed it to her :) sigh...
yes Leah I agree with everything you just said.Also wanted to mention that when I started reading Outlander the first time, I read the back cover where it talks about James Fraser. So when they introduced him as Jamie Mactavish I kept wondering 'ok so when does she meet James Fraser and why do they keep talking about this Jamie Mactavish?' until Jamie went to pick her up at Gellis house and she called him Mactavish and he did not answer to that and she realized that was not his real name. That is when I realized 'oh so this must be James Fraser!' (lol).... was it just me or did someone else get confused with that as well? I just wondered.
Teresita I can see how that would happen. I knew the concept of the story from my daughter-in-law so I knew when she met Jamie who it was, but when you reread there are so many things that are really right in your face but never saw it first time through.
Yea teresita the same thing happened to me. I was waiting for this jamie fraser to show up i didn't give much thought to jamie mctavish. I remember when i first read this book i had no idea which direction the book was headed. Gabaldon really did a good job with keeping the plot interesting. I finally realized that jamie was going to be a love interest when he and claire had that "moment" when she cried into his arms about frank.
Right Dee..And Claire kept referring to Jamie as being so young or referring to him as a young man or younger than herself, so it didn't occur to me that he would become the love of her life until they married. When I read that he kissed Laoghaire I thought he would wind up with her..Til old Alec told Claire after she saw him kiss Laoghaire that Jamie needed a woman not a girl, because Laoghaire would still be a 'girl' even when she was 50. I think it was then I started to wonder if Claire was already falling in love with this 'young man' Jamie and she didn't even realize it. But looks like Alec noticed it.
Terisita, I did the same thing on my first read...I found myself liking Jamie MacTavish, but kept wondering where Jamie Fraser was :) Definitely a bit confusing. I think I read somewhere that DG mentioned that is something that was missed in the editing process (was that addressed in the Companion?). I believe she intented to let the readers know earlier on that Fraser was his real last name.
I mistakenly picked up Drums of Autumn first and read the synopsis on the back. Luckily I didn't read it as I figured it was a series. I found Outlander, started reading it,was a little confused about Jamie MacTavish, but then put two and two together. It was when Jamie comforted Claire at the castle when they first arrived.
I was confused about McTavish too. I kept looking at the back, thinking I missread it or something.
DG does know how to keep us guessing, doesn't she?!
Do you guys read her daily lines on facebook each day? Todays was very good.
Sue - Yes, I do read the #DailyLines. I'm addicted! I liked today's lines... but so far, everything I've seen only makes me think my fears for Book 8 are coming true: That Jamie & Claire won't be reunited in the book until the very end.
I read them on Twitter.
My thought as to why Dougal wanted to take Claire along "On the Road" was two fold at the time:1) To see if the Garrison can help her get back to her family.
2) If not, I believe Dougal wanted to keep her because of her healing abilities. The marriage was a bonus.
I really think the brothers(Colum & Dougal) really wanted to keep Claire for her healing.
I also believe Dougal and BJR were conspiring together as Jacobites. That is why Dougal was so upset that BJR became so violent with Claire.
I never got the feeling that they wanted to keep her. Well, other then Dougal admitting he wanted her sexually. I also never thought Dougal and BJR were working together. He was never violent with her, in fact he prevented others from being violent. Plus, I think by the time the BJR thing happened he had his own feelings for Claire.
But those are interesting thoughts. I'll have to remember that for my next reread.
Lori I pray you fears are wrong. That just wouldn't be fair to them or US!!!!!
I agree with you, Wendy. And I don't think Dougal was working with BJR. He was as abhorred by the man as any. Dougal might have looked at BJR as a way to get rid of Jamie (and I don't think he was too put out that Jamie was sentenced to die at the end of the book), but Dougal made it clear then and later that he wouldn't have turned Claire over to BJR.Dawn, I think that Dougal, certainly, could see benefits to keeping Claire around. But until that confrontation with BJR and the scene between Dougal and Claire near the fountain, Dougal still thought Claire might be a spy.
But Dougal was always thinking and scheming - isn't that what MacKenzies do best? I think by this time, he knew that Jamie and Claire had a bond and an attraction. Marrying Claire off to Jamie only benefited Dougal: 1. Married to an English woman ensured that the clan wouldn't accept Jamie as laird. 2. I think Dougal figured that sooner or later, Jamie would be captured. Then he (Dougal) could step in and ensure Lallybroch would be part of the MacKenzie holdings - either because they'd take Claire in or because he'd keep trying to seduce her. (He couldn't know then that his wife would die. But she did stay at their home, away from Castle Leoch. Which gave Dougal room to "play". Dougal is the kind of man who'd think himself more than capable of juggling multiple women and keeping them so under his spell that they'd never go at one another. Arrogant man! Imagine what Geillie would have done if she'd thought Dougal was going after Claire in earnest? 3. It kept Claire close enough to see if she truly was a spy.
Dougal is a complex man. He recognized Claire's value as a healer and a woman, and I think Column did, too. But Column feared Claire, especially her intelligence, whereas Dougal wasn't a man to be afraid of a woman, even if he did think her a witch. Look at how Geillie kept him under her thumb!
Sue wrote: "Lori I pray you fears are wrong. That just wouldn't be fair to them or US!!!!!"Let's keep our fingers crossed then, shall we?
Lori wrote: "I agree with you, Wendy. And I don't think Dougal was working with BJR. He was as abhorred by the man as any. Dougal might have looked at BJR as a way to get rid of Jamie (and I don't think he was ..."Good points Lori.... Makes sense to me.
Funny, while Dougal was trying to seduce Claire after Jamie was captured and he refused to help, I kept thinking 'you are wasting your time Dougal. Claire would not give you the time of day! you are such an arrogant fool.'
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