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A Feast For Crows (A Song of Ice and Fire, #4) by George R.R. Martin (buddy 4th in series read) start date September 7th
message 51:
by
Lisarenee
(new)
Sep 10, 2011 03:18PM
Thanks. My headache is finally gone, so I may be able to read again. I had it for over 24 hours and thought it'd never go away. Just feeling a little weak now so laying down and reading sounds like the thing to do. Hoping stuffy nose, cough, and aches let up soon.
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Questions for Chapter 12 (Cersei) through Chapter 15 (Samwell) 39. I think Cersei is truly losing it. She’s going to be Nut Bunny 2. She has lost her son and father, and essentially she has lost the twin brother she was in love with. She is completely paranoid and (rightfully) trusts no one. She keeps flashing back to Maggy the Frog who told Cersei a more beautiful and younger queen would take her place and take all she holds dear. Cersei thinks this could be Margaery, but it could also be Myrcella. I hope it is Daenerys! Do you think Lady Merryweather is telling the truth about Senelle spying for the Tyrells? We know that Tyrion didn’t poison Joff, yet Lady Merryweather testified she saw Tyrion do it. Is someone paying her or is she just out to gain Cersei’s favor? (apologies if this is a rambling post.)
Yes, Cersei is losing it Big Time. Love her new nickname. Isn’t this the first we heard of Maggy the Frog? I think so. I hope the Queen in question is Dany it! Wow, I hadn’t even thought about Lady Merryweather lying about Senelle; you could very well be right; might be her way to get her own personnel into position. I think she lied to gain favor. You didn’t ramble on too long – now I don’t have to. :)
40. Do you think that the Tyrells were justified in wanting Tommen and Margaery to sleep together? I think it’s odd, given there’s no way they’re going to consummate the marriage. What purpose does this serve? Merely symbolic?
I have two words: Pillow Talk. It is Queen Margarery alone time with King Tommen – to forge a bond.
41. Oh, looks like we may have a Hound sighting. It’s definitely possible that he still lives. I think Cersei is right to fear his return.
I wonder if it is him. Raping a 12 year old girl doesn’t sound like him, but what do I know? Yes, I hope Cersei is shaking in her boots.
42. The end of the chapter finds Cersei linking arms with Kettleblack and gleefully watching the tower burn. Do you think she intended this as a direct insult to Jaime? Also, does she seem crazy to you or is it just me?
Oh, yes. A direct hit across the bow. Yes, she’s going off the deep end.
43. In The Soiled Knight’s Chapter there appears to be the beginning of a war between those who want Myrcella as Queen and those who want Tommen. Which child do you believe has the greater claim to the throne? I was surprised Arys let his manhood rule his brain when he agreed to stand for Myrcella. His love for Arianne appears to be genuine, but I fear she is playing him like a Stradivarius. I don’t even want to try to speculate who in Westeros will stand for Tommen and who will stand for Myrcella.
LOL! Love the Stradivarius line. And I think you are right; he is being play. I have no desire either way over Tommen or Myrcella. Neither has any claim to the throne, IMO. Figuring out who will side with who – and then change sides – is too much for my little brain right now.
44. OK, so it took a long time to sink in that Randyll Tarly is Sam’s father. I am a little slow. After witnessing how brutal he is when dispensing his justice, I have to say it must have been very difficult for Sam growing up, and also, how could Sam be related to this guy? Perhaps his mom had a honey on the side? Hey, it could happen!
I’m slow too, Sandy. I was trying to figure out why I should care about these characters. I finally figure it out, but was very slow at the arrival gate too. Hey, how could Tommen be related to Cersei?
45. Brienne has proven herself capable of taking on the role of knight. Why is Tarly so against it? Do you suppose he is threatened by her?
Oh, he is just a chauvinistic pig.
46. I was really getting tired of Sam’s puking and Gilly’s sobbing. Finally we are told the babies were switched (way to go, Lisa Kay!!). I can completely sympathize with her now and I felt bad for being annoyed at her. So, Jon switched them so that Melisandre would not kill sacrifice Mance Raydar’s baby, but how can he condone any baby being killed sacrificed? Not sure I follow the logic in this one.
Yeah, I can figure out the baby plots, I just can’t figure out the adult plots. I figure Jon Snow will reveal the identification of the baby before it is sacrificed. By then, Raydar’s baby will be safely away.
47. Any speculation on how Randyll Tarly will receive Sam, Gilly and the baby? I hope Brienne befriends them somehow.
Nope. But, he’ll be a pr!ck though, for sure.
@Sandy#28 – I didn’t think Tyrion was capable of murder either, so you’re right; I can’t blame Jaime. Probably not an ideal time to confess about Tansy, though.
#29 – Oh, your answer is making me think. If Varys is good at disguises, maybe he can help Tyrion come up with a good disguise. To Dany! Wow! I didn’t even think of that. Don’t know why not; others have!
#31 – Really? Warring? Wow. Great. :)
#34 – I wondered why she gave up this consideration after she learned Lady Lysa was dead (I know, next Brienne chapter… but still.)
#37 – I think you are right, Sandy.
#38 – Mind Meld!
Questions for Chapters 16 (Jaime) - 19 (The Drowned Man) 48. Ser Kevan doesn’t appear to know of the discord between Cersei and Jaime; do you think knowing that would make a difference to him in his attitude toward Jaime? Is there a liaison in the making there?
49. Jaime doubts Tyrion’s words about Lancel and Cersei but not about his killing King Joffrey. Is that frustrating or what?
50. Why would Bronn, now Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, have Lollys’s child named Tyrion? Was this his smartest move, considering? Does he still have some loyalty toward Tyrion, or is he just thumbing his nose at Cersei?
51. What is with having the large skull of Ser Gregor cleaned by beetles before it is presented to Prince Doran in recompense for the murders of his sister, Elia (wife of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen), her child Prince Aegon, and Prince Oberyn Martell, the Red Viper? To obscure any dissimilarity? If the leeches that were put to Ser Gregor died, why were the beetles able to eat his flesh?
52. Which Queen will Taena Merryweather ultimately side with: Cersei or Margaery? Why would Cersei let her know about her scheming with Ser Osney Kettleblack after Jamie warned her she is Margaery’s spy?
53. What was Jaime trying to tell Loras in that history lesson?
54. Where do I begin with Cersei? I guess I’ll follow Sandy’s suit, and go with more rambling questions about her: Which of her decisions will bring her downfall? Selecting Lord Qyburn for (her) small council and thinking him oh so clever? Appointing Ser Harys Swyft as (her) “hostage” Hand? Overindulging in drink, especially at small council meetings? Underestimating Jaime’s ability and making fun of him? Ignoring the “sparrows” invading King’s Landing? Thinking one High Septon will serve as well as the other? Not becoming involved in the politics of the Vale? Believing House Bolton would settle for half of the north after being promised the whole? Not paying the Iron Bank or the Faith of the Seven their due? Giving command of the royal navy to Aurane Waters, a man of questionable background and not exactly known for his fidelity? Counting on Lord Walder Frey’s death before it happens, or that his family will fight among themselves once he is gone? Believing a White Harbor alliance can be so easily achieved? Planning to assassinate Jon Snow by way of Ser Osney Kettleblack? Or ignoring the rumor of dragons?
55. You impression of Victarion? Would he have made a good king? Was he justified in beating his wife to death? Should he have thrown his support behind his niece, Asha? Can he forgive his brother, the Crow’s Eye, Euron; accept and honor him as the king to sit in the Seastone Chair?
56. What did you think of the kingsmoot? I actually liked Asha’s speech and she almost swayed me to her side. Alas, her nuncle, the Crow’s Eye, Euron, won the day. Think there will be dissention in the ranks?
Questions for Chapters 16 (Jaime) - 19 (The Drowned Man)48. Ser Kevan doesn’t appear to know of the discord between Cersei and Jaime; do you think knowing that would make a difference to him in his attitude toward Jaime? Is there a liaison in the making there?
I think it would make a difference, and it would give Kevan an edge over Cersei. Definitely can see a liaison happen here.
49. Jaime doubts Tyrion’s words about Lancel and Cersei but not about his killing King Joffrey. Is that frustrating or what?
It is frustrating, but it doesn't sound like Jaime is taking into consideration the fact that Lancel is in a much worse physical condition now than when he was bedding Cersei. I suppose he can believe Tyrion killed Joff, given that he killed his own father.
50. Why would Bronn, now Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, have Lollys’s child named Tyrion? Was this his smartest move, considering? Does he still have some loyalty toward Tyrion, or is he just thumbing his nose at Cersei?
I think he does have loyalty and respect for Tyrion. He's seen how Tyrion has been treated so badly by his family. I don't think Cersei is offended..she thinks it's funny.
51. What is with having the large skull of Ser Gregor cleaned by beetles before it is presented to Prince Doran in recompense for the murders of his sister, Elia (wife of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen), her child Prince Aegon, and Prince Oberyn Martell, the Red Viper? To obscure any dissimilarity? If the leeches that were put to Ser Gregor died, why were the beetles able to eat his flesh?
My guess is they wanted the prize to be clean, not wormy and gross.
52. Which Queen will Taena Merryweather ultimately side with: Cersei or Margaery? Why would Cersei let her know about her scheming with Ser Osney Kettleblack after Jamie warned her she is Margaery’s spy?
Not sure, maybe it's a test? I think siding with Cersei would be the most advantageous (for now).
53. What was Jaime trying to tell Loras in that history lesson?
If I remember correctly (and that is certainly open to question) Criston Cole was either a Hand or a member of the Kingsguard who elevated a second son over the rightful heir to the throne. I don't remember details, but I remember vaguely. I took this to mean that Jaime is hinting he will try to elevate Myrcella over Tommen. But, that's probably wrong b/c they are both his kids!
54. Where do I begin with Cersei? I guess I’ll follow Sandy’s suit, and go with more rambling questions about her: Which of her decisions will bring her downfall? Selecting Lord Qyburn for (her) small council and thinking him oh so clever? Appointing Ser Harys Swyft as (her) “hostage” Hand? Overindulging in drink, especially at small council meetings? Underestimating Jaime’s ability and making fun of him? Ignoring the “sparrows” invading King’s Landing? Thinking one High Septon will serve as well as the other? Not becoming involved in the politics of the Vale? Believing House Bolton would settle for half of the north after being promised the whole? Not paying the Iron Bank or the Faith of the Seven their due? Giving command of the royal navy to Aurane Waters, a man of questionable background and not exactly known for his fidelity? Counting on Lord Walder Frey’s death before it happens, or that his family will fight among themselves once he is gone? Believing a White Harbor alliance can be so easily achieved? Planning to assassinate Jon Snow by way of Ser Osney Kettleblack? Or ignoring the rumor of dragons?
Wow, Lisa Kay, you summarized this very nicely! I think Cersei is making way too many mistakes. Her council is laughable. The treasurer is near death (bloody phlegm = tuberculosis?). The dragons are so real. It's hard to say which mistake is worse. She is going to spiral out of control quickly, I'm afraid.
(BTW, is anyone else longing for the next book?? This one just isn't keeping me engaged like the last 3.)
55. You impression of Victarion? Would he have made a good king? Was he justified in beating his wife to death? Should he have thrown his support behind his niece, Asha? Can he forgive his brother, the Crow’s Eye, Euron; accept and honor him as the king to sit in the Seastone Chair?
The wife killing thing really made me mad! This section of the story, quite honestly, confuses me and I'm not sure that I even care. BUT, then the dragons came into play (a dragon horn??) and my interest has been recaptured! I just think this part of Westeros is way too misogynistic to accept a female queen.
56. What did you think of the kingsmoot? I actually liked Asha’s speech and she almost swayed me to her side. Alas, her nuncle, the Crow’s Eye, Euron, won the day. Think there will be dissention in the ranks?
Yes, maybe Asha will try to steal the dragon horn.
@ Sandy#48 – Mind Meld!
#49 – Really! He didn’t see him all young and freshly innocent.
#50 – We’ll see. I think Cersei is paranoid and will start to wonder about Bronn.
#51 – I don’t think they’re that considerate. I don’t think he is dead yet.
#52 – I think so too. But for how long? She’s a woman on the edge. I think losing Joffrey has unhinged her a little.
#53 – I don’t know, but I figure GRRM was trying to tell us something about Criston Cole. I guess we’d better mark it as a name, among thousands, to remember. And it is thousands now. The first book had over 300 characters, and the second over 600. Lord only knows how many this book has. I haven’t check Shelfari yet.
#54 – Yes, I believe Lord Gyles Rosby has TB. (I wouldn’t want to be around him in an unventilated room!)
BTW comment: This book is agony! I’m sorry, but it is. As much as I hated the last three books, I loved them just as much. I couldn’t resist picking them back up; I was hooked. You don’t know how I groaned when I saw I had to cover questions for two chapters on the Isles. I really like Brienne – and yet her chapters are boring. The only chapters holding my interest are Cersei’s – and you know how I feel about her; I can only take so much. I like Jaime’s a bit too, but I just think GRRM is teasing us with historical info there; plus, no commitment on if he is going to be on the outs with Cersei or not. I think GRRM left too many neat characters out of this one and the writing is not up to par with the other three.
#55 & 56 – Ah, yes; the dragon horn. I should have asked a question about that. But how will it come into play? I do think you may be right, Sandy; Asha should steal it. Is this the opposite of the horn Jon Snow was looking for? I'm confused.
@ Lisa Kay#53 - 300 & 600 characters? Really? No wonder I feel lost much of the time!
I'm glad I'm not alone in my feelings on this book. I feel that it's rambling and nothing is really happening. At least the Brienne chapter I just read was pretty good, so maybe things will pick up. You're right, too much info and not enough action.
#55/56 - the other horn, didn't Mance have it and it called the giants? Ugh....too much to remember....
Lisa Kay wrote: "BTW comment: This book is agony! I’m sorry, but it is. As much as I hated the last three books, I loved them just as much...... but I just think GRRM is teasing us with historical info there; plus, no commitment on if he is going to be on the outs with Cersei or not. I think GRRM left too many neat characters out of this one and the writing is not up to par with the other three."I'm slightly behind in reading, but I agree 100% with you. I think all this back story might have been better in a prequel.
Guys I'm running behind on my reading and thought I'd be able to catch up this morning but haven't. Anyway someone could post questions for today? If not I should be able to get mine up later tonight. I'm going to sit down and read until I'm catch up. I'm a day behind.
I haven't done the reading yet. You will probably finish before me, otherwise I'd be glad to post. At any rate, I don't think anyone will be offended if questions aren't posted today. :-)
I won't be able to finish the book any time soon. My time for the ebook from the library is up tomorrow and I'm only on page 250. So I've had to put my name back on the request list.It may be several weeks before I can get another copy
= (
I haven't done my reading yet. **sigh** I'll start now and when I'm done I post questions if no one else has.
I'll start composing the questions for Chapter 20 - Chapter 23, unless someone else has them ready.
I still haven't finished. I had a bunch of unexpected things happen yesterday which hindered my reading time. Plus, I fell asleep reading last night. Thanks Lisa Kay. Should we add in another catch me up day for yesterday and adjust the reading appropriately?
Lisarenee wrote: "Plus, I fell asleep reading last night. Thanks Lisa Kay. Should we add in another catch me up day for yesterday and adjust the reading appropriately?"I think so, Lisarenee. I fell asleep twice trying to read these chapters. I am about ready to post the discussion questions. I did a bit of re-capping, so that might help those who are behind in the reading.
Questions for Chapters 20 (Brienne) -23 (Alayne) 57. Okay, I’ll admit confusion. Why did Dick Crabb (Nimble Dick) take Brienne to Whispers, the ruined castle on Crackclaw Point, if he knew that he had conned Shagwell, Timeon and Pyg by selling them a map to that local? Wouldn’t he have expected their wrath? Or did Dick really believe Shagwell was that much of a fool – and inept to boot? He couldn’t have expected them to actually have found smugglers in a cove that hasn’t been active for over 30 years. I don’t get it.
58. Were you proud of Podrick or what? Throwing stones at Shagwell – ha! I’m glad he is with Brienne. Oh, well. Might as well not get too attached. If I like him, he won’t last too much longer.
FYI – I had to get the characters for “The Queenmaker” chapter straight and admit I consulted Wiki Ice (I inserted some clarifying info):
• Arianne Martell (eldest daughter) expected a marriage match that befit her rank as a high lord's heiress.59. The BIG questions are:
• Instead, her father, Prince Doran, publicly entertained suits from various elderly lords such as Lord Walder Frey and forbade more attractive matches to high-ranking heirs such as Ser Edmure Tully and Willas Tyrell (crippled eldest son and heir of Lord Mace Tyrell).
• Prince Doran's apparently humble marriage plans for her, coupled with the vague misinformation put out by him regarding her brother's location, brought Arianne to the conclusion that her father intended for her dutiful younger brother, Quentyn, to succeed him, passing over Arianne entirely.
a) What will happen to Arianne now? (Assuming Areo Hotah is in her father’s employ. As captain of Doran Martell's guards, he arrested the Sand Snakes on his orders…so it stands to reason he remains his loyal servant despite any fondness he has for the "little princess" – as he affectionately calls Arianne.)60. What do you think of the “kindly man”? Does he have Arya’s best interests at heart? He keeps asking who she is; when is she going to ask who he is?
b) Who was it that told of her plans? Was he/she present at the ambush?
c) Where is Arianne younger brother, Quentyn? (Not to be confused with disgraced former maester Qyburn, in Cersei’s employ.)
d) What is the extent of injury to Princess Myrcella? Is she really Princess Myrcella or is she Rosamund?
61. Did you think for even a second that Arya would toss Needle into the canal’s water?
62. Okay, confused again. I didn’t understand the story about the firewyrms, nor the part about “Will I be like her?” “No,” he said, “not unless you wish it. It is the poisons that have made her as you see her.” What does emptying a stone flagon into the water of the black pool have to do with anything?
63. Arya, as Cat, is now to be more than just an acolyte. Will she learn not only how to detect lies, but change her face while in the House of Black and White in Braavos? Will she have to take poisons to do so? Pretty handy skills, those. Whatever will she do with them?
FYI – Something that stumped me – and I had a heck of a time finding it on Wiki Ice – is who is Bronze Yohn (the one who asked Alayne/Sansa “Do I know you, girl?”)? Besides being one of the signatories of the Lords Declarant he is:
• Lord Yohn Royce, better known as Bronze Yohn.64. What is going to happen when “Alayne” runs out of hair dye?
• Lord of Runestone and head of House Royce. He is sworn to House Arryn.
• He has a set of bronze armor, thousands of years old, that is inscribed with runes that ward him from harm.
• He has three sons, Andar, Robar and Waymar, all knights.
• He came north with his son, Waymar, when his son joined the Night's Watch.
• He was defeated by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen at the Tourney at Harrenhal.
• He stayed in King's Landing, participating in a boar hunt with the king, a boar hunt which killed Robert I.
FYI – Pertinent facts on Ser Lyn Corbray from Wiki Ice:
• He was one of Lady Lysa Tully’s suitors; he also stayed with her at the Eyrie for half a year after Jon's death.65. "Gold and boys and promises…" Just what are Littlefinger's “promises”? Does this mean Littlefinger might swing both ways – if it benefits his plans? Or, since House Corbray of Heart’s Home is a noble – if poor – house did he conspire with Littlefinger mainly for gold?
• Ser Lyn offered himself as a champion for Lady Lysa on Tyrion Lannister's trial by battle, stating that he was the surest sword there.
• He is notoriously not interested in women.
Only nine questions, but tons of info. Hopefully, it will catch people up who just want to skim the chapters. Or even who analyzed them like I did and were still lost.
Good news! If you discount the appendix (which, believe me - I've read!) and you are caught up to Chapter 23 (Alayne), you are 50% of the way through this book! (view spoiler)
Still reading Sansa's chapter, but I read your questions and just have to say, wow, great job keeping the facts straight! This is the most confusing/frustrating volume thus far. :-(
It is confusing/frustrating, Sandy! I didn't want to consult Wiki Ice, but I caved; it was too frustrating and I was falling asleep from lack of interest. Consulting it perked me up a bit.
I've never gone to wiki ice (until just now!). Have you seen westeros.org? I've just skimmed it. Looks like the creators are still working on it. It will have an encyclopedia and a concordance (which I have been wishing for!)
No, I haven't been there (http://www.westeros.org/ )until just now. A concordance would come in handy to avoid spoilers, right?
I confess I read chapter out of order -Arya, Alayne, Queenmaker, Brienne. I'm still reading Brienne. Anyone else do that? I couldn't get into the first two chapters.**************QUESTION***************
Should I readjust the reading so we don't need to read 90 pages a day and expand the duration of this buddy read? I looked and the chapters don't seem to get any shorter. These are the longest chapters thus far in the series.
YES!!! I noticed the chapters were loooooooooonger.
Now, why didn't I think of reading the chapters out of order, LOL! You are so clever, Lisarenee. :o)
I am fine with expanding the reading time/shortening daily reading, Lisarenee. I also hadn't thought of reading out of order, but I had thought of skipping! LOL
This is one of the few books where it doesn't hurt to read the chapters out of order. Everyone is in different places at roughly the same time so you don't get any spoilers. Roughly how many pages should we read? Should we cut it in half or 1/3 of what we're reading? Try to keep it around 50 or 75 pages?
I think @ 50 - 60 pages would be a good goal.
Sandy wrote: "I think @ 50 - 60 pages would be a good goal."I agree!
I was hoping you guys would say that. :)
It really is a good thing they has a Arya and Sansa chapter - I was about to give up.
Questions for Chapters 20 (Brienne) -23 (Alayne)57. Okay, I’ll admit confusion. Why did Dick Crabb (Nimble Dick) take Brienne to Whispers, the ruined castle on Crackclaw Point, if he knew that he had conned Shagwell, Timeon and Pyg by selling them a map to that local? Wouldn’t he have expected their wrath? Or did Dick really believe Shagwell was that much of a fool – and inept to boot? He couldn’t have expected them to actually have found smugglers in a cove that hasn’t been active for over 30 years. I don’t get it.
I was confused from the start of this little episode. We knew that Dontos was dead and that Sansa was long gone, so we knew Crabb was lying to Brienne. I thought he may have been leading her to a trap. So he knew the sellswords would be there?
58. Were you proud of Podrick or what? Throwing stones at Shagwell – ha! I’m glad he is with Brienne. Oh, well. Might as well not get too attached. If I like him, he won’t last too much longer.
Yes, he displayed bravery and intelligence. I love how he calls Brienne "Ser. My Lady."
FYI – I had to get the characters for “The Queenmaker” chapter straight and admit I consulted Wiki Ice (I inserted some clarifying info):
• Arianne Martell (eldest daughter) expected a marriage match that befit her rank as a high lord's heiress.
• Instead, her father, Prince Doran, publicly entertained suits from various elderly lords such as Lord Walder Frey and forbade more attractive matches to high-ranking heirs such as Ser Edmure Tully and Willas Tyrell (crippled eldest son and heir of Lord Mace Tyrell).
• Prince Doran's apparently humble marriage plans for her, coupled with the vague misinformation put out by him regarding her brother's location, brought Arianne to the conclusion that her father intended for her dutiful younger brother, Quentyn, to succeed him, passing over Arianne entirely.
59. The BIG questions are:
a) What will happen to Arianne now? (Assuming Areo Hotah is in her father’s employ. As captain of Doran Martell's guards, he arrested the Sand Snakes on his orders…so it stands to reason he remains his loyal servant despite any fondness he has for the "little princess" – as he affectionately calls Arianne.)
She has clearly committed treason, and the penalty for treason is death. BUT, perhaps her father won't turn her in to Cersei? On the other hand, Cersei probably already knows about this somehow. Little birds are everywhere. And, The Prince of Dorne does not want to get on Cersei's bad side.
b) Who was it that told of her plans? Was he/she present at the ambush? No idea at all.
c) Where is Arianne younger brother Quentyn? (Not to be confused with disgraced former maester Qyburn, in Cersei’s employ.)
He was last seen at Planky Town, posing as a merchant. Why? I have no clue.
d) What is the extent of injury to Princess Myrcella? Is she really Princess Myrcella or is she Rosamund? Hard to say, maybe she just had a nosebleed? I do think it's really the Princess, because I don't believe Arys would leave her side, and I don't think he would have charged the men on the ship the way he did if it was Rosamund.
60. What do you think of the “kindly man”? Does he have Arya’s best interests at heart? He keeps asking who she is; when is she going to ask who he is? These people also confuse me. I should consult the Wiki! (btw, I wouldn't recommend diving too deep into Westeros.org. I fear I have seen spoilers that I don't like!) Maybe it is Syrio Florel or Jaqen H'ghar. I do believe he has her best interests at heart, though. She could ask but he probably wouldn't tell her!
61. Did you think for even a second that Arya would toss Needle into the canal’s water? No! Needle has some great battles ahead (I hope!)
62. Okay, confused again. I didn’t understand the story about the firewyrms, nor the part about “Will I be like her?” “No,” he said, “not unless you wish it. It is the poisons that have made her as you see her.” What does emptying a stone flagon into the water of the black pool have to do with anything?
My first thought was that the "poisons" referred to some kind of drug or alcohol addiction, and that emptying the flagon was symbolic of getting rid of something toxic. Who knows what this really meant!
63. Arya, as Cat, is now to be more than just an acolyte. Will she learn not only how to detect lies, but change her face while in the House of Black and White in Braavos? Will she have to take poisons to do so? Pretty handy skills, those. Whatever will she do with them? If she could change her face she could travel freely and perhaps find her brothers (where is RICKON??)
FYI – Something that stumped me – and I had a heck of a time finding it on Wiki Ice – is who is Bronze Yohn (the one who asked Alayne/Sansa “Do I know you, girl?”)? Besides being one of the signatories of the Lords Declarant he is:
• Lord Yohn Royce, better known as Bronze Yohn.
• Lord of Runestone and head of House Royce. He is sworn to House Arryn.
• He has a set of bronze armor, thousands of years old that is inscribed with runes that ward him from harm.
• He has three sons, Andar, Robar and Waymar, all knights.
• He came north with his son, Waymar, when his son joined the Night's Watch.
• He was defeated by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen at the Tourney at Harrenhal.
• He stayed in King's Landing, participating in a boar hunt with the king, a boar hunt which killed Robert I.
I just interpreted that he had been a guest at Winterfell and had attended a tourney at King's Landing. Sansa was afraid he was going to recognize her.
64. What is going to happen when “Alayne” runs out of hair dye? That's an excellent question. Are there wigs in Westeros?
FYI – Pertinent facts on Ser Lyn Corbray from Wiki Ice:
• He was one of Lady Lysa Tully’s suitors; he also stayed with her at the Eyrie for half a year after Jon's death.
• Ser Lyn offered himself as a champion for Lady Lysa on Tyrion Lannister's trial by battle, stating that he was the surest sword there.
• He is notoriously not interested in women.
65. "Gold and boys and promises…" Just what are Littlefinger's “promises”? Does this mean Littlefinger might swing both ways – if it benefits his plans? Or, since House Corbray of Heart’s Home is a noble – if poor – house did he conspire with Littlefinger mainly for gold?
Littlefinger will lie to anyone for any reason. He has no qualms about making promises he doesn't intend to keep. Look what he did Eddard Stark. The man is completely untrustworthy and he gives me the creeps! I just hope Sansa can escape his clutches somehow. (BTW, surely Ser Lyn wouldn't "abuse" Little Lord Robert?)
@ Sandy#57 – Yes, and obviously Brienne is now off on a trail that she thinks is Sansa – and it is Arya’s old trail. So now the question is, if she finds one of Catelyn’s daughters, who will it be? BTW, thought it was kind of dumb of her not to clarify the name.
#58 – Yes, I love “Ser. My Lady.” too.
#59a – I wonder how afraid of Queen Regent Cersei Prince Doran really is. Hmmmmm…
#59b – Me neither!
#59c – Planky Town? Now why does that sound familiar?
#59d – I think it is really Princess Myrcella – for the reasons you stated and b/c of the way she clarified the differences in the Lannisters. However, I think she could be really hurt. “streaming through her fingers” Seemed like a lot of blood.
#61 – Ditto!
#62 – Totally clueless here.
#63 – LOL! You’ve asked that b/f – where is Rickon?
#65 – Yes. I concur with everything you said. I actually gasped out loud over your comment about Ser Lyn and Little Lord Robert. Goodness, I hope not. He’d have a seizure and die, then Littlefinger would be SOL. So, no, hopefully not.
#59C I don't recall the name Planky Town prior to this chapter.#59D - Yep, a lot of blood! Hope she's ok!
#65 - I only thought of that b/c Littlefinger made a point of saying Lyn likes boys. *shudder*
#59c - Maybe that is why it seems familiar - I tried several attempts at that chapter and kept falling asleep, LOL!#59 - Her father may be less forgiving if Princess Myrcella is seriously hurt. Maybe?
#65 - Good thinking. Maybe Sansa should keep that in mind. I'll send her a raven. :o)
Oh, that would be interesting...Sansa saves Sweetrobin from child molester and Littlefinger...hmmmmm (well, I suppose Littlefinger could also be called (would-be) child molester given his creepy behavior toward Sansa....Maybe she'll meet up with Rickon in the forest. :-)
So, I've been nonexistent for the last ... oh, three weeks. So sorry! I haven't left the group or anything! I disappeared because I was on vacation and when I got back I kept forgetting to check in with the discussion.But, I'm back now, and I'll probably join in tomorrow!
Also, Sandy, I love that you've taken it upon yourself to keep straight who is who. When my husband read the book, that was my job!
Welcome back, Laura!Actually, it's Ms. Lisa Kay who is keeping our cast of characters straight...I think she has more patience than I do!
No, just a little more confused and frustrated.
Hope you had fun on your vacation, Laura! :o)
The cast of characters in this book does get a little ... bloated. A lot of times, even if I knew who the character was I had to try and remind myself of why he or she was important.Also, anyone who doesn't want to potentially spoil themselves, I'm more than happy to be the resident researcher since I've finished all the books. Just let me know what you're curious about and I'll see what I can find!
Laura wrote: "Also, anyone who doesn't want to potentially spoil themselves, I'm more than happy to be the resident researcher since I've finished all the books. Just let me know what you're curious about and I'll see what I can find!"Thanks for that, Laura. I appreciate it. I went on Wiki Ice early this a.m. and was very careful... still ran across one spoiler.
Hopefully it wasn't too big of a spoiler!
Hmmmmmm... not too big. I should have stopped skimming and didn't, LOL!
Laura, I have one question, does Rickon ever make an appearance again? I am worried about the little guy!
Welcome back Laura. Hope you had a great vacation.Okay I changed the schedule. Let me know if I made any mistakes. We're reading appox 2 chapters per night (2 exceptions), have one more break, and started added questions in the top posts again.
Thanks for changing the schedule, Lisarenee!The new schedule ends at Chapter 41, but I think there are 45 chapters(?) (looking at your chapter list).
I'll check it out. Thanks. That's strange I swear I had 45. Maybe I changed the original reading instead?
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