To Rate Or Not To Rate [it as a One-Star]?

[Katy]

Dale, I don't know of any place where you can post a review without a rating. In my opinion, if it is so bad I couldn't finish it, it deserves a 1. I'm sticking to that ... I don't rate 1s that often - any V.C. Andrews book, and this book I got called "The Secret Lives of Doctors' Wives," which was one of the most insipid messes I've ever tried to read. Bleah.

[Cambria]

Amy wrote: "Cambria wrote: "I'll add a plug, because I can. :)
Our moderator Amy is a professional editor and I think that she is really awesome at what she does...I have seen her work."

You are always so swe..."

It is good that there seem to be so many resources for Indie authors out there!

@Cassie- i didn't know you did some proofing/editing! We should combine our talents b/c i would rather do content....you can forget grammar and punctuation...definitely not my thing! :)

[Cambria]

And there aren't many places where you don't have to give a book a star rating. When i am posting my review on those sites (like smashwords and amazon) i do put up a star rating but here in this group and on JournalStone and my blog and all my written reviews....I do not ever say what my star rating is. I just don't feel like me saying how many stars i would give a book is important. What is most important to me is what i got out of the book or didn't get. or how the characters touched me....
So i will rate with a star rating when i have too but I don't start out any review saying..."i give this book _ stars"
Unless I LOVED the book and I feel the need to say I give it 5 stars....which doesn't happen that much.
:)

[Mysti]

I don't add a star rating to the reviews I post on my blog. I agree with Cambria on that one. I kinda cringe over the star system because it's so subjective. So many times the books for me would grade somewhere in the middle...

[Cambria]

Yes!! I agree whole heartidly Mysti!

[Library Lady 📚]

Katy wrote: "Dale, I don't know of any place where you can post a review without a rating. In my opinion, if it is so bad I couldn't finish it, it deserves a 1. I'm sticking to that ... I don't rate 1s that o..."

Ah, V.C. Andrews, still scarring the youth of America from her grave. lol.

[Katy]

So many people seem to like V C Andrews, and a friend gave me a couple of her books - but when I tried to read them, they were so ... hmmm, how to describe ... ? Insipid? Flat? Overly self-conscious? The constant perversion didn't really bother me so much as the fact that often it felt so forced; plus almost every book she wrote, as far as I can tell, has the same essential plot; horribly abused children, incest, that sort of thing. *cringe* I mean, vary things a bit, you know??

[Phil]

Lena wrote: "Katy wrote: "Dale, I don't know of any place where you can post a review without a rating. In my opinion, if it is so bad I couldn't finish it, it deserves a 1. I'm sticking to that ... I don't r..."

So far as I know, she's not very big in Oz. Never heard of her before. But having read her bio on Wikipedia, I'm not surprised. I'm with you, Katy, without even having read anything of hers.

[Cambria]

I have not read any VC Andrews...though I do know how popluar she is. :)

[Amy Eye]

I guess I'm living under a rock in a deep hole near the back of a cave, but I have no idea who this is....I will have to go check her out...

[Cambria]

LOL! I have seen her stuff at Barnes and Nobles...i think it might be mystery...but I am not sure. But i know her name and can even visualize a few of her covers.....

[Library Lady 📚]

No, no, do not check her out! It is not worth your time or money! Actually, I know many ppl who love her, but I just take huge issue w/ her novels being in the YA section. If they were in the adult section, I'd have no prob w/ them at all, though her writing style is, er, not for me. Whenever I see kids reading her books I want to secretly steal them and hide them, lol.

[Mysti]

I'm pretty sure I read Flowers in the Attic and saw the movie. Not pleasant in terms of plot, if I recall.

[Book]

Lena wrote: "@TM--I dont see why ppl have a problem with indies getting friends or family to read their books. If no one has ever heard of you, it's hard to get ppl to buy your books or know who you are. So far..."
@ Lena
Yes, I totally agree. It makes sense to start with the people you know and it's not that I have a problem with. It's only when those reviews are always 5 stars. I don't know. Maybe it's just me but usually if I really like a book it's 4 stars, not 5, unless I'm crazy over it. If your friends and family honestly think your book is 5 stars, that's okay. I guess this just seems unrealistic. I don't know. Am I being silly?

[Cassie]

Cambria wrote: "Amy wrote: "Cambria wrote: "I'll add a plug, because I can. :)
Our moderator Amy is a professional editor and I think that she is really awesome at what she does...I have seen her work."

You ar..."

I've mostly just been doing it for JournalStone, and I've just really started in the past several months. I've been looking into getting my MA in English (at least getting started in the program) before I start trying any content editing. I don't want to screw anyone's book up!! LOL

[Katy]

@ T.M. - I've seen other people that never rate above a 4; personally, I tend to rate a lot of 5s, because I like a lot of books; 4, for me, means there is some aspect of the book that bothers me, or perhaps the writing style is not as good as it could be; or alternately I didn't like it but could tell that was a personal choice and that the book itself was good; 3 means there is some aspect of the book I hated, or the writing style needs a LOT of work; 2 means I disliked the book but was able to finish it, or the writer needs a serious refresher course; and 1 means it was so bad I couldn't even finish.

So, you see, each person has a sort of system and, as many have mentioned, it is highly subjective. I try to be fair and rate high if the book is technically good but I just don't like it due to subject matter or something like that. I would hope that people would go and read my review, but a lot of people look at the average rating and go with that rather than taking the time to read the reviews. If there were no rating system and people HAD to read reviews if they wanted to know how good the book was ... a lot of them probably STILL wouldn't read the reviews and just go with the description and editorial reviews ... :-/ But, the authors often read the reviews, so it's a way to communicate with the author and tell her (or him) how much you enjoyed the book. Which circles back to the rating - giving a 4 as the highest rating when it is a 5 star system seems to me like it would be upsetting to the author. But that's what I think; I'm not an author - what do the writers themselves think about it?

[J.A.]

Well, for myself I investigate the reviewer's other reviews and take it in the context of their other ratings. There's even a difference between GR ratings and Amazon so though the casual reader probably will take them at face value, with my author's hat on I tend to contextualise.

After all, to help me improve I'm going to read the comments and consider them; the star rating means better or worse sales so that hits me in the pocket more than the ego!!

May be just me though.
JAC

[Library Lady 📚]

As a reader, I give 5 stars to book that to me are perfect, or were at the time I read them. Perfect not meaning there were no flaws, but meaning I wouldnt change anything. After I started writing, I got more critical and noticed bad writing much more, so I tend to give lots of 4s. But I still give 5s if I love the book, and I try to post all my 5s on my blog if I've also reviewed them.

As a writer, I do read all the reviews. But in a way, I think star ratings mean more b/c lots of ppl only look at the rating and now reviews. So I guess as a writer, the stars are more important, although I haven't seen reviews or ratings translate into sales, so I dont know that any of it really effects writers.

[Cambria]

Cassie wrote: "Cambria wrote: "Amy wrote: "Cambria wrote: "I'll add a plug, because I can. :)
Our moderator Amy is a professional editor and I think that she is really awesome at what she does...I have seen her w..."

LOl! you are too funny and I think you would make a fabulous editor!!

[Cassie]

Cambria wrote: "Cassie wrote: "Cambria wrote: "Amy wrote: "Cambria wrote: "I'll add a plug, because I can. :)
Our moderator Amy is a professional editor and I think that she is really awesome at what she does...I..."

Thanks!

[Dale]

Yes, I agree that many readers out there probably just look at the rating and may just skim the reviews, or not read them at all. Lena, I like in your reviews how you say who you'd recommend the book to (ie., everyone, people who like mysteries, etc).

[L.A.]

Katy wrote: "Well, Leslie, sometimes a book has such an execrable beginning, you can just tell that it is completely unreadable. If I get one of those, I always push as far as I can, until I get to a point whe..."

Hi Katy, I do understand your point, there are some not so good books out there, I have read a few of the books that received a 1 star, and while the beginning may have been a bit slow, it was to build some background and then came some pretty decent stuff. I have also seen reveiwers give a 1 star because they thought it was something they would like and then decided they did not care for the genre and only read 20 pages and gave it a 1 star. Those are the types of reviewing that I think are wrong. If I only did not read something because of the back story at the beginning, Many attorney books and certainly Tom Clancey Books would not cut it. The beginnings are all about the back stories and setting the stage. If the book is poorly written and riddled with issues, I might stop reading and give a 1 star, but so far I have been pretty lucky.

[Katy]

@Leslie - backstory doesn't bother me. Slow beginnings don't bother me. These are essential to world-building and character development and I am disappointed if things just jump into action and don't bother with the build-up. What bothers me is flat, unrealistic dialogue, caricature characters (where the author obviously is just using stereotypes so as to avoid actually having to develop a character), poorly developed plots ... those sorts of things. I'm not being arbitrary about it - if I read a book and don't like it, but it is well-written, I'll rate it high, while mentioning that I did not, personally, like it, but it was well-written and a worthwhile read for that reason.

I do get frustrated when I have just finished a brilliant book, with great characters, well-developed interpersonal relationships and a good plot, and then see low ratings because there wasn't enough action or something like that; television is destroying our ability to concentrate unless everything is filled with big booms and constant excitement, and that is just sad.

But I think we can assume that the people that are HERE wouldn't do something like that, because this is a community of readers and book lovers, and that they would review and grade fairly - I think we can assume that if the people here rate something as a 1-star, they have a good reason for it.

[Dale]

Katy, that is the key. The fair review. It's good to be able to look at the well-written story subjectively even if you didn't care for its entertainment value. Reviews are, after all, subjective to begin with. The point being is if you can back up your 1 star rating, then go for it.

[Library Lady 📚]

Katy, I agree. If a book has a slow beginning, I might mention it and say if I think it's necessary to the plot, but it doesn't affect my liking of a book.

I had a reviewer (on here) volunteer to read my book, and in her review she stated that it was not what she expected and not her usual reading choice. However, she was very kind and wrote a terrific review that fairly assessed the book, not just her expectation. I've been happy with the objectivity of reviews I've gotten from GR members in general.

[[deleted user]]

Colleagues, This has been a fascinating discussion. Please allow me to stress a few points that have already been made that impact me as an author. If you love my book, please tell me what you liked about it succinctly. If you hated it, please spare me the storm and fury and tell my why you hated it in as few words as possible.

Keep in mind that as reviewers you are writers and the rules of showing and not telling, brevity and clarity apply to you as well as they apply to us.

Thank you for this refreshingly thoughtful discussion.

Bob

[J.A.]

Good point, Bob!
JAC

[Cambria]

Well said, Bob!

[Library Lady 📚]

I've copied and pasted some of my reviews from a long time ago when I used to have a Myspace book club (remember myspace?) and I notice that my book reviewing has improved a lot since then. Or at least I hope it has! Book reviewers should spell-check at the very least, if you want to be taken seriously.

[Jenn]

So I noticed this discussion and I thought it would be the perfect place to voice my irritation. So I was patrolling through the numerous blogs I follow and there was a guest post from an author explaining how reviewers should be doing their reviews. In this he says never review out of your preferred genre (because I guess it's not possible to like a book outside your preferred genre?!)and if you don't have something nice to say you shouldn't review because we as reviewers need to remember that books are how writers earn their livelihood.

Now I get that books are how authors are trying to make a living. But say I worked at Walmart and I showed up daily 10 minutes late, dressed in inappropriate clothing and was rude to customers. When I got my performance review should my boss give me a raise anyway even though I wasn't putting my best foot forward? Or should he tell me, I don't really have good things to say to you, so how about we skip this one?

In the same turn if you're copying your plot from a television show and slapping a cover on your notes file then sending it to reviewers how can you expect them to just say oh I'm not going to review this and allow people they know and that trust their opinions to spend money on a book that's pretty much a waste. I don't give really bad rating unless the book is basically notes with a cover with less than elementary grammar skills and ripped off plot lines. Most books have some redeemable qualities. And I feel awful when I write a bad review but I want to be known as a reviewer that's honest and if I skip the ones that I don't think are worth reading then how does that make me honest? Its feels to me like lying by omission. To me a review isn't just whether or not I liked it, it's also how well it's written, how fleshed out are the characters and how interesting is the plot. So if I'm giving a really low rating that means that book had nothing really redeemable to it in my personal opinion. If every reviewer skipped the bad reviews then all reviewing sites would be is propaganda. Yes I like that my reviews might help a good writer to sell their book. But I also like to be though of as I guess a neutral opinion, I'm writing my review to give an unbiased opinion of the book. I'm not writing it to sell the book or to not sell the book I'm writing it to express my opinion, if that helps someone in their purchases yay, if now well it's one opinion among the masses. If you want a good review from someone just like with any other job you need to put your best foot forward because if you publish the absolute best you can produce the book will have something redeeming to save it from a bottom of the barrel rating.

Additionally I don't think it makes you a better reader or reviewer if you never step outside your genres and boundaries, I think if you aren't a regular reader of the genre it's important to note that in your review, especially if you didn't like the book. However life would get pretty freaking bland if we all only read the genre we prefer for the rest of our lives. I mean sure there are some books I'll avoid because just the idea of them sounds ludicrous to me for example a book that's going to make me rich from believing I'm rich. Or not being religious I'm not going to pick up Bible interpretations and predictions of my coming doom. But I think my life and blog would suck if I never picked up a book outside young adult, romance and fantasy for the rest of my life.

I don't know the guest blog kind of offended me. Also I really don't think it's the wisest idea as a writer to write a guest blog on a reviewers blog which is mostly trafficked by other reviewers (because lets face it almost all review blogs have more review blogging followers than non review blogging followers,) in which you tell reviewers how they're supposed to review.

I'll admit that a couple of his points I agreed with read over your work before posting, note good and bad qualities. I do agree with that, but the big points that he really detailed in his post. It just kind of made me want to go GRRR. I am quite proud that I posted my little comment for networking purposes and kept my mouth shut about what I really thought of the post then came here to rant.

[Katy]

I know what you mean - I feel the same way, especially about reading "out of genre." If I disliked a book simply because I disliked it, I note that, note that it wasn't my normal reading material, and then discuss why the book was good anyway. If I don't like it because the writing was sub-par, the characters were flat, and no one bothered to edit it, well, that's a whole different ball of fish, so to speak. Check out my review of "Letters in Cardboard Boxes" - it wasn't my normal thing, but the author was very pleased with my review because, although I don't normally like those sorts of books, I liked that one because it was well-written and the characters were well-done. Anyway ... just wanted to let you know you aren't alone!

[J.A.]

That's....a strange view. I think it's really valuable to review outside your genre and say so, whether you like or hate it because then people who are considering my book and dithering because it's not their usual genre but they like the look of it will have a review that will guide them as to how it reads if you're not used to the genre.

Also it's useful marketing info; I know that my book has a lot of characters in it and that most fantasy fans will not specially notice but that readers of genres which more usually concentrate on 2 or 3 main characters may be thrown by it. So what I'm finding out is which genres I can cross-market to most successfully. I think that's a good thing - but then mine is a bit of a niche book, perhaps. It may be that if the author writes thrillers or romance or something more specific and less cross-marketable he doesn't need that info - but it still feels a bit unwise to tell reviewers how to review!

Did it read like a set opinion or as if he was starting a discussion?

[J.A.]

"A 1 star rating from me for a particular book will most likely never reach print as it would probably have accidentally caught on fire."

Strange how that can happen, Ken!
heheheh
JAC

[Dale]

Agree witht the comments here and chuckled on the fire bit. Hee hee

I read almost every genre, though my preferred is fantasy. But I love suspense, and thrillers, and horror, and romance, etc. I'm certainly not going to hold back my reviews on those genres. Why should I?

Personally, I want to know what people *don't* like about my books because it could be something I can learn from (ie, problem with pacing, not enough character development, etc). While I do like good reviews, it's not realistic to think that everyone will like them.

[Cambria]

I agree here too. And I do think Dale ais right as a writer I like good reviews but not everyone will like everything. I also think reviewing outside of a perferred genre can be a good thing and I think that being honest is the best way to go.

[Jenn]

J.A. wrote: "That's....a strange view. I think it's really valuable to review outside your genre and say so, whether you like or hate it because then people who are considering my book and dithering because it'..."

It read like the guy was writing an instruction manual on how all reviewers should review. It actually included the wording if you want to be taken seriously as a reviewer and learn to write better reviews you need to adhere to the following five rules. And the two that I just went off about were stating in the rules he listed.

Apparently I'm a bad reviewer since I prefer honesty to skipping it and honestly I consider it harder to write a really bad review than it is to write a good one because I feel guilty when I'm writing it because I'm so afraid that the writer is going to read it and have their feeling hurt. I know the likelihood is slim but even though I'm honest I really don't try to hurt the writers feelings when I'm writing my review just in case they actually do read it.

[Library Lady 📚]

I read a blog post a while back, I believe the author was Cassandra Clare, where she says that other writers should only give positive reviews. It offended me somehow, like saying that b/c I'm a writer, I can't express my opinion. I do try to be objective, but if a book is really bad...well, I'm not going to give it five stars.

[Charlie]

I do not post 1 star reviews or ratings. Mostly, because if a book is going to end up in that category, I don't finish it. If I don't finish a book, I don't rate or review it. This is just my own policy which is stated at my book review blog.

[[deleted user]]

I agree with Jenn. Some writers deserve to earn money from their writing and others don't.

A reviewer should be honest, but polite. It's important that readers who are reading the review get an idea what is wrong or right with the book they are thinking of buying.

[Cambria]

Well said everyone!

[Michael]

I have mixed feelings about this subject, but I want to address this particular part.

Was Mother right when she said, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all? Or do you have a duty to warn your reading friends away from a book and pull that rating down to better reflect reality? Does being "nice" just lead to star-inflation and make ratings (and rankings) useless?

There are so many books that I don't feel the need to warn friends away from the bad ones. It's hard enough to find the good books that the bad ones are easy to avoid. When I review on Goodreads, I'm mainly chatting with friends about stuff I've read, but especially trying to draw attention to favorites. Also, if I care enough to finish a book, I'll almost always give it two or three stars, at minimum. If I hate it, I won't finish it in the first place.