Creative Reviews discussion
?'s for the Members of CR
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To Rate Or Not To Rate [it as a One-Star]?
If the author personally sends me a book, I let them know what I think beforehand, especially those books that don't get a lot of reviews. Otherwise, if it's a bad book, it's a bad book, and people should get a warning. There's no point in ratings if you just inflate them.
I think it's okay to do the low rating as long as you are logically doing so, instead of just ranting about how awful the book is.
I agree. I read and write books, and I sometimes do give 1 or 2-star ratings. I've only given these to major books from established authors, since I know my opinion probably won't sway anyone or hurt the author's sales. However, when I give rating below 3-stars, I dont post it on Twitter, FB, or my blog. I only blog about 3-5 star rated books. My low ratings stay on Goodreads. I think asking a writer if they want you to publish a bad review is a good idea. I've read some indies that I couldn't even finish. So I'd just tell the author that it's not for me and I'd rather not review it, sorry.
Haha true, critical critism, not flat out bashsing.
if i give something 1 or 2 stars i don't rant about it i just state why i didn't like it
If I were to give one star I'd give very specific reasons as to why, and I'd try to be as constructive as possible. Having said that, I don't think I've ever actually one-starred anyone.
i have once, which was
and it was because the book is 80 pages long and had 2 stories in it and i felt like nothing had a chance to start in either of them it was like there was this character, .... the end for both.
I don't rate my books unless i loved them and I say it was 5 stars plus. If i don't like something I state why but i always try to find something I like and state that too.
me 2 cambria :)i always try n say something good
:) its the best way to review for me personally...
:Di always rate them tho even if it's low. I feel like i read it and if there's things i didn't like about it i dnt see the problem in rating them low if i say what i didn't like about them.
I hate people who rate something like 1 star and all they say is it was crap. i couldn't do that i have to say why i didn't like it and if there was some i did like say that too
Yeah. People that just slam a book and have no reasoning behind it or anything to back it up...that's just makes the reviewer sound moody and mean. Its okay not to like something but at least say why
I admit, though, I really like to read ppl's rants. It's my guilty pleasure to go read awful reviews of books I hated.
i rant a lot but i tend to do it in a discussion about the book rather than my review.I hate rating books lower than 3 coz i feel mean. The author has put so much hard work into it lol
Thats what i think of too. the author. As a writer i think that if some reviewer went on a rant about my book and everything they hated i would be upset. a LOT of work goes into a book and the author is always proud. I would hate to dash someone's accomplishment like that.
yea me 2i'd be so upset if it was a book i'd wrote
yeah, i tend to just go look at other bad reviews, and then it makes me feel better about reading a book that was awful, lol. But, as Kay said, a bad rating is just my opinion. I would rather just not rate a book and tell the author i'm bailing than give a bad review.
Canary wrote: That's a good point. When you say "personally sends me a book" do you mean a paper copy, or do you also include online solicitations and eBooks in that? "I would include anything, but I don't take ebooks anyways, so my opinion probably wouldn't count on this.
Cambria wrote: "I don't rate my books unless i loved them and I say it was 5 stars plus. If i don't like something I state why but i always try to find something I like and state that too."I do that too. I use the sandwich method--something good, the bad stuff, something good. But I have read a few books where really, besides the fact that the author knew the alphabet, i couldnt find anything to praise.
I get that the author might be disappointed to get bad ratings, but it might be worse to get some great ratings and write a sequel to the book thinking people liked it. That would be double the work and he would fall farther. I believe in constructive criticism.
I think I have given one single one star review and it was because the book offended me (non-fiction). What I couldn't stand was that the book was written as fact when I knew better.So I guess it depends on your own personal rating system. To me, one star offends the senses and has no redeeming value. It's book Hell lol.
Two means the author really missed. No point to the story, very poor writing, etc..
Three would be having flaws but readable.
Four, I would read the next by that author.
Five, LOVED it, anticipating the next.
So three ain't bad. One or two is bad.
But that's just me, I think it depends on the reviewer' standards. Some reviewers don't give many fives. Four is good to them. Three is dead center average fare.
No review is worth anything, really, unless there is something to back it up. Words. Sometimes you read a review and think, "OK, why did they give it just two stars again?" Or, "They hated this book and gave it a five..."
Of course, there is ALWAYS the day to consider. Was the reviewer having a good day or a bad day? We'll never know. Were they expecting one thing and got another from the book? Were they hoping for one thing and got another? Those things can affect a review too.
Just rambling here on my part....and yes, as authors we look at reviews lol. The BEST feedback we get, however, is the behind the scenes communication: I liked this, I didn't like that, what if you changed this.
The BEST behind the scenes communication we get is positive emails. The problem is...those aren't reviews that anyone else can see. THAT is frustrating.
"I loved your book and you and I are the only ones who will ever know it...."
Splitter
Canary wrote: But isn't that the inherent risk of putting something in the public eye? After all, all writers have the option of joining a writing group, art-sharing writing site, or just sharing their work with their friends and family. By posting something as a "published" book and asking people to pay for it, well, they're opening themselves up to criticism."Well said :)
If I couldn't finish a book I wouldn't bother reviewing it. I suppose a one star from me would mean that the book was only just interesting enough to hold my attention until the end.
Canary wrote: "Cambria wrote: "Thats what i think of too. the author. As a writer i think that if some reviewer went on a rant about my book and everything they hated i would be upset. a LOT of work goes into a b..."I'm not talking about bad ratings. I get that some people aren't going to like my stuff....i'd think they were lying if every single person said they did. Not everyone's tastes are the same. I am talking about someone who just bashes the book and does it in a disresepctful way.
Anagha wrote: "Canary wrote: But isn't that the inherent risk of putting something in the public eye? After all, all writers have the option of joining a writing group, art-sharing writing site, or just sharing t..."Yes, I think if a reviewer paid for a book, they have every right to say whatever they want. However, if you're given books to review for free (I've been given a bunch of them) then the author isn't getting paid, and if you give a bad review, it seems unfair somehow. Those are the ones that I'll tell the author I choose not to review the book instead of giving a bad review. If i pay for a book, it's fair game.
That's true. I actually wouldn't finish most books that would warrant a one-star review. I've given up on a few books lately, both traditionally published and indies. I can see your point, that if an author asks for a review, that's what they'll get!I've sometimes stressed the word 'honest' when i offer to review a book. I give HONEST reviews. I had an author back out when I wrote that once! I try to be very clear that I'm not guaranteeing five stars. I've also referred them to my review page where I've posted a few less-than-favorable reviews. If they choose to have me review a book after looking at my reviews, I assume they're confident enough that I'll like it.
Reviewing is hard, and like others I always try to find something favorable. For me, I pretty much like anything...I'm fairly easy to please...but there was one time I gave a one star review, and that was because the book was *so* like someone else's work (I swear she just changed the names, the story was sooooo similar) that I was floored. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she was sued by the original author!
I think of lot of new writers put their works out confident they are the next Stephanie Meyers or Dan Brown. If I have a 1-2 star book I'll tell the author, sorry, this isn't working for me, and here's why. Hopefully the 'here's why' is constructive and lets them hone their craft without public embarrassment. Besides, natural selection works in literature as well - if an author's only putting out 1-2 star work he or she won't be around long. If it wasn't a personally requested review, I won't review it all. Why spend time any more time on it? Baxter Clare Trautman, The River Within
Web site: http://baxterclare.com
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/...
@Dale--I always worry I've accidentally come up with the same idea as someone else. I wrote a dystopian YA novel and shortly after I finished the sequel, "Matched" came out and sounded EXACTLY like my book. I'm sure it's not, but the idea sounded so similar that I never edited & just shelved it. With all the popular vampire/weres/angel books out, a lot of them sound REALLY similar to me. @Baxter--I dont think that natural selection necessarily works. Some of my 1-star reviews are for bestsellers that i thought were cliche, unoriginal, and horribly written. But everyone else loves them!
Lena, you're right. I can think of a number of EXTREMELY popular novels that basically took up residency on the NY TImes Bestseller list that I gave one star each. But people LOVE them. And the scary part of that? That IS natural selection in action. Ours! The horrific dumbing down of critical thinking. Baxter Clare Trautman, The River Within
Web site: http://baxterclare.com
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/566...
Mod
I usually always put a star rating on the books that I am reviewing. There have been a few times I have refrained from using the star method for one reason only. I don't want to influence people for the wrong reason.
I have different reasons, like Splitter, for my different star ratings. If I gave it a five star rating, it means that it will hold a special place on my self, and I will be rushing to read anything else that comes from that author and especially if there is another book in the series.
A 4 star means that I really enjoyed the book, and time flew by as I was reading and had an issue pulling myself out of the world the author created.
3 stars could mean a few things, and this is where it becomes especially important for people to read the actual review instead of merely looking at the pretty stars at the top.
2 and 1 stars...well, I think you get the picture.
I think a review is a review, whether you bought the book or the author gave it to you. If the author gave it to you, you can choose to only talk about the things you liked about the book (which does nothing to help the author), or you can discuss both the good and bad aspects of the book. If people give only good reviews to books they are given for free, there will be a lot of misrepresentation of books out there, and people will begin to lose their faith in reviews. If that happens, then we have no reason to write a review any longer. No one will pay attention, and our words become meaningless.
If I can't finish a book, and it is an indie author who may be struggling to get their book recognized, I will simply not publish a review at all. After all, it is only my opinion, and someone else my like it better than I did. If I was able to finish it, and I just found it bad, I may or may not leave a review; it depends on the situation. If there are a mixture of reviews where people can get all sorts of different ideas about the book, I will be more inclined to throw my opinion into the hat.
I do NOT think it is right to merely go in and bash a book just to bash it. I think it is childish and flat out rude. To me, I would never want to present myself like that to anyone, it makes the person look unintelligent and, to be frank, makes them look like an ass. I would never read another review that person put out, and if (Heaven forbid) it was an author, they will have lost me as a reader. Constructive criticism and voicing an opinion is one thing, spreading hate and stupidity is another.
Mod
There is a real person behind the book that I hated. This person may be trying to start a career out of their book. If I happen to be the first person who reviews their book, and I give it a 2 star rating, I feel like I could have possibly damaged their chances of being a success considerably, especially if I post that same review in all of the places I generally publish reviews. Once that person has a good review or two up about their book, then I can, in good conscious, put my less than glowing review of the book up as well.
I'm not out to trash anyone's career, I'm not out to fabricate reviews to stroke an author's ego. I'm there to give my opinion on a book, and if I feel my words can hurt someone, I will hold them back. And I'm not just talking about hurting the person's feelings, I mean possibly damage to their career. And to clarify, I don't think my opinion is that great where I can sway the masses with my keystrokes, but everyone knows that sometimes, one thing at the right (or wrong) moment can make a big difference for good, or bad. I would rather know that I am not contributing to the bad for these authors who are just starting out. (a big-time published author on the other hand...LOL)
Mod
Right now, many people look at reviews (our reviews) to decide if a book is right for them to read. The possible book buyer takes what the author says in their blurb or synopsis and mixes it up with the words of the reviews he or she is reading. This leads said book browser to determine if they want to designate part of their hard earned money to this particular book.
Now, we have little 'ole me who was given a book by an indie author who has absolutely no reviews about his/her book. I read the book, and found it to not quite be up to par with what I would give a three star review to. I go to check out this author's page and learn there are NO reviews at all on this book. If I go and post this review on Amazon, GoodReads, Smashwords, Barnes and Noble, LibraryThing, Borders, and every other site I post to, this could really hurt this person's ability to sell their book as their ONLY review is a negative one. I'm not saying I wouldn't send my review to the author personally and share my thoughts and opinions on their book with them privately, I just won't put it out in public. It would weigh heavily on my conscious.
I'm not saying everyone should adhere to the practice that I have set up for myself. Others have no qualm what-so-ever about blatantly throwing out their thoughts regardless of the outcome. Many believe that they published a book, and they deserve whatever review they get. I do agree with always being honest in a review, but I will pick and choose when to put less positive review out there to a new author.
I can most certainly understand your thoughts Amy. I feel the same way about posting an unfavorable review especially if it will be the only one to an Indie author just starting out. A bigger publisher book is a little different bc i dont feel like i am hurting their sales as much. I am all for giving my jonest opinion but doing it in a way that still makes me feel good about it. Again, like writing a review the way i proceede with posting is all my opinion. To be honest i just try and treat others work with respect and i think about how i would like to be treated. :)
Lena wrote: "@Dale--I always worry I've accidentally come up with the same idea as someone else. I wrote a dystopian YA novel and shortly after I finished the sequel, "Matched" came out and sounded EXACTLY like..."Lena, this wasn't just similar. This was almost exactly the same plot, the same circumstances, the same family life, the main character had the same mannerisms...the list goes on and on. Someone actually put the similarities in his review (Barnes & Noble)...point by point. It went on for pages.
Amy, you are a sweetheart! And I can emphasize with your conscience! The particular book I rated 1 star had many, many other reviews, and they were mixed. Some people had given this book very favorable reviews. So it goes to show this each person's opinion is valid and personalized. If that book hadn't had any reviews, I'm not sure I would have posted mine...I still might have because I'm not sure I'm as nice as you! Personally, I was disaapointed I'd spent the money on the book, and to be honest I hadn't read the reviews prior to my purchase. I do that allll the time.
However, as a writer, I do want honest reviews, and I don't expect everyone to love my book. If the review is constructive, I can consider that review when finalizing the next book (because I may not agree with it)...and if I see a trend in the the reviews, then I know something needs to be fixed next time around. We have to expect bad reviews, and have to learn from them (if they are constructive, that is). As far as sales, well, as an Indie author, sales are a crap shoot. Even with favorable reviews, sales can still suck.
Bear in mind, though, there are 2 types of bad reviews; the useful ones and the useless ones. Useless ones are where someone just goes off on one and says how appalling it is without explaining why or what their criteria are, so that all the writer - or anyone reading the review - can get from it is that the reviewer thought it was rubbish.
If, on the other hand, the reviewer explains honestly what they thought about it was so bad and why - and leavens it with the odd mention of what they thought worked or was good about it as well, that's a different matter. It's never going to be entirely ouch-free to get a one-star, after all, but if as writers we can come out of the experience having learnt something, then it's going to be useful to us.
First point: be honest, be useful, be as balanced as you can and it will be a useful review for both the author and other readers.
The second point is that there is no book on this earth that everyone loves, and all readers know that. If you're self-published, people are particularly suspicious of your ratings; so if the author has enough positive reviews to balance it out, I'd definitely want it there just to demonstrate that I'm not trying to pull a fast one. If you've specified your criteria, readers can judge whether their tastes are similar to or different from yours, and buy or avoid accordingly; I know I've bought books because of a bad review before now and I guess other people are not so very different from me.
Second point; readers use their own judgement over a range of reviews, so it's not a bad thing that they have a range of reviews to consider.
Should you post it at all? Imho, of course you should. If you've put in the time to review it and to write your review, you have the right to state your opinion. Whether the author agrees or disagrees is irrelevant; if they didn't want to know they shouldn't have asked.
And as for treating indies differently to trad-pub, I don't know about that. In my own case, I want to be judged on exactly the same criteria as trad-pub because if I want to go play with the big boys, either I'm going to keep up or I'm going to fail spectacularly. But then I don't necessarily expect to do more than keep up, so authors aiming higher than myself will undoubtedly have a different view on the matter.
I suppose basically my viewpoint is that when it comes down to it, for the reader publishing is a business, and just as red in tooth and claw as is Nature. Good books will hang around; bad books won't; and one person's opinion is just as valid as the next. The reviewer is not there to flatter the ego of the author; the reviewer is there to express their judgement on the book for the benefit of other readers.
And even if, as a writer, I don't have to like getting a one-star, I DO have to respect that that is the reviewer's opinion of it.
JAC
For books that a writer has sent to a reviewer: I like the idea of the reviewer letting the writer know that they can't give a high rating, maybe even running the written review by them first, and asking if they still want it posted. For books that you read independently without being asked, I'd say anything goes. If you don't like it as a reader, state your honest opinions, and it may help people make a good choice.
For instance, I had a reader leave a two star rating that my book wasn't appropriate for children or teenagers. And she's exactly right. It's not a children's or even a YA book. So, that'll help other people who read that review know that my book isn't a good choice for a youngster.
Mysti- i agree 100 percent with what you said! :)
Mod
Useless ones are where someone just goes off on one and says how appalling it is without explaining w..."
JA - you are very wise! :)
I don't judge the books differently if they come from an indie or trad publisher, I just watch when I may post the review. I will always give my true opinion of the book. If I think I have some important points that could help the indie author (if they gave me the book to review to begin with) I will send them a message giving them my review of it and telling them what I thought could be done to improve it. The editor in me MUST do this sometimes, especially when I see real potential in the book.
And you are definitely correct when you say there are good "bad" reviews and bad "bad" reviews. Anyone can just bash a book, but it takes a real reviewer with a critical eye and a good understanding of what they are reading to create a review that explains why the book was unsatisfactory to them and be "adult" about it.
@Mysti - I do the same thing when it comes to YA books. I have come across a few that were labeled YA - but it was SUPER close to an adult book because of language or "activities"...I like to let readers know that MAYBE they may want to preview it before giving it to their younger YA readers!
@ Dale - Thank you very much! You are very kind!
Mind, I can see you'd have to be a bit careful about it - I think most of the world saw that author go mental at Big Al! But if you post a useful review - and especially if you're game to discuss a bit afterwards - some really useful stuff can come out of it.....and one of the joys of epub is that you don't have to wait while the first 5000 copies sell until you can make your alterations. Bonus!
JAC
That's the cool thing, JAC. I was going to write a post about that. Most of us don't have the resources of a publishing company (proof readers, editors, etc..) so reader feedback is extra important. Changes to eBooks are fairly easy (fairly...making a change can cost you an "approval" for affiliate programs through some sites).Splitter
I for one really wish Goodreads had a half-star rating. Sometimes it's almost perfect, but not quite there...i really want to give it a five but i can't quite. I sometimes bump it up, or down, depending. Or I say, "this would be a 3.5 or 4.5." @Mysti--I think YA should be divided into Older YA and Younger YA. I write YA, although I've never published any, and they are all very...mature. Lol. I'd recommend for 16 and up crowd. Some of the YA I've read fits in that category too--lots of F-bombs, sexual situations, etc. One book in particular I remember thinking was too adult for YA is Melvin Burgess's Smack. I LOVED this book (prob. gave 5 stars, or 4.5 lol) but it was VERY mature. The only thing YA about it was that the characters were teens. I know i'd be hesitant to let my kid read it at 12, which is about the time kids go from MG to YA. I dont think that should affect a review, however. Just b/c a book isn't for YA, i wouldnt give it a lower rating if it was well-written.
Also, I dont believe reviews affect sales. At all. I found a book by Tom Wolfe, and looked at the reviews. It had NINE one-star reviews in a row. Seriously. The first nine reviews gave it one star. And I'm pretty sure Tom Wolfe is not suffering monetarily.
if i've wanted to read a book and i see a one star review i still get it to read. what ppl hate i might love. i prefer to make my own mind up about a book rather than go by what others think
I recently read reviews here for Twilight, and had to laugh when a reader gave it one star, then went on to say, "I hated this book, but I'll read the next one just for curiosity." :)@Lena: I think the particular reviewer who commented about mine mistakenly thought it was YA, though I've never marked it as such. So, even though I wasn't fond of two stars, I hope her review will help someone else who might think mine is YA before they pick it up.
YA seems to have a wide range of acceptable content nowadays. My writing style probably leans toward YA, but is geared toward the 18 and over crowd.
i read a dystopian book that was labelled YA and i was like no it's not it's too 'dark and gritty' for YA and i picked it up in the adult section of the store. i think some ppl who haven't read it just assume everything coming out nowadays is YA
I have yet to give a 1 or 2-star review because I just can't finish books that I would rate that low. I'm reading one right now that, assuming I can actually finish it, will probably be a two-star. But I will do a "good point, bad point sandwich", because there are aspects of the book I like.
@JA your insight as always is spot on.@ everyone else- this topic is just hopping right along! I think we all have some really cool views on rating a book!
Creative Reviews
Books mentioned in this topic
Smack (other topics)The River Within (other topics)
The River Within (other topics)
Girl in the Mirror (other topics)
i also give reasons as 2 why i dnt like it