Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion
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A Clash of Kings
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Martin, George R.R - A Clash of Kings (A Song of Ice and Fire, #2) buddy read start date July 5th 2011 - REVISIT JUNE 2017
Question, "Who do you think the Cold Gods, white shadows are? Do you think they eat the children Craster gives them or raises them?"Lisa Kay's response, "I’m thinking they are the Zombie Others and that they eat (do Zombies eat?) the ones they don’t raise."
I was thinking that too, but I keep wondering how long all the giving up of the baby boys has gone on? Would the "others" have been around all along and something is making them spread? Perhaps the weather? Jon did hint they were the "others". I'm just not sure.
Lisarenee wrote: "I was thinking that too, but I keep wondering how long all the giving up of the baby boys has gone on? Would the "others" have been around all along and something is making them spread? Perhaps the weather? Jon did hint they were the "others". I'm just not sure."You know, if it is something sexual in nature, I'm going to be pretty upset. There is only so much I can take with regards to that.
I'm talking quantity not specifics.
I agree, but I'll probably read the darn thing anyway. I'm not sure, however, I'd want to see the series on HBO.
Oh I loved the first season of Game Of Thrones (First book) It was really well Done Lisa. I just hope this second book is gonna be just as good as the first one.
Lisarenee wrote: "I agree, but I'll probably read the darn thing anyway. I'm not sure, however, I'd want to see the series on HBO."Yeah, I'll probably keep reading also, even it if that turns out to be the case. **sigh** I'm hooked on too many of the other storylines.
Kellyflower wrote: "Oh I loved the first season of Game Of Thrones (First book) It was really well Done Lisa. I just hope this second book is gonna be just as good as the first one."I keep changing my mind on seeing it or not.
Questions for Chapters 16 (Bran) - Chapter 19 (Arya)35) Thought it was fun that Bran tried to do a little matchmaking between Ser Roderick and Lady Hornwood. He has so much to learn about the way of things. His dream this time recounted what happened to him when he was injured. Do you think he finally remembers everything? Do you think if it's ever revealed what happened that Jaime's fate will change? Any thoughts on what his punishment should be?
I think Bran remembers, but he doesn't realize it is a memory. He thinks it's just a dream? Not sure about this. His reaction was certainly one of someone who is realizing something extremely disturbing. I think Jaime is an important pawn in these games, so I am not sure if what he did to Bran would play into his fate in the long run. I suppose the Starks could make sure he is as uncomfortable as possible while they hold him.
36) What medicine/potion do you think Tyrion took from Varys?
My guess is poison, but who knows?
37) We now know that Tyrion is the one who sent men to look for Arya. What do you think of all the plans he's putting into place?
I think Tyrion is clever and he's good at outwitting those who are champion con artists. I'm not sure what his ultimate goal is though. Clearly he doesn't approve of Joffrey as king, and he detests Cersei. Could he want the kingship for himself?
38)Do you think Sansa is wise to team up with ser Dontos? Does she have any other options?
Sansa took a big chance meeting him. This definitely could have been a trap. I was scared for her! At this point, she has no other options that I can see. I hope this works out for her, but knowing GRRM, it won't be an easy road.
39) The hound makes me nervous when he's around Sansa. Anyone else feeling this way?
I don't think the hound would hurt her seriously since she is Joffrey's "plaything." I do think he enjoys scaring her, though.
40)Gah! Arya just can't seem to get a break. Every time I think things have gotten really bad they get worse. Anyone else worried here?
I just keep thinking, can't anything good happen to these people?? I am VERY worried. They are all captured...how will they escape? WILL they escape? I really want Gendry to survive (and Arya, of course).
41) I'm really starting to like Gendry. I like how he called Arya on being a girl. He was funny when he found out she was a lady. Any thoughts/opinions on Gendry?
He has no clue he is the son of Robert Baratheon. If he learns the truth, I think he could play a major role in the war. Really enjoy his interactions with Arya.
Chapter 20 Tyrion - Chapter 23 Jon42. I wish Tyrion could be king. He knows exactly what to do in situations and this chapter gives more evidence of this. Did you know who the "informer" was immediately when Cersei mentioned Myrcella? Did you feel sad for Cersei at all when she began to cry and Tyrion tried to comfort her? I felt more for Tyrion. It seems like he has much to give , but his family just doesn't see it.
Best line:
"The longer Cersei waits, the angrier she'll become, and anger makes her stupid. I much prefer angry and stupid to compose and cunning." I have to agree with Tyrion on that one.
I also agree! Cersei crying makes no sense at all. That woman has no feelings. Surely they were fake tears? Tyrion would make a great king!
43. What was your first impression of Jojen & Meera? What did you think of the oath they gave, do you think it had any real meaning or just words they memorized?
Based on the little bit we know about their community, I think the words did have real meaning. These are people who owe fealty to their lord, and I do believe that in the (fictional) time period of this novel, loyalty means everything.
44. Why do you think Jojen wants to see the direwolves so much? Do you think his sister has the same kind of connection with the direwolves? Do you think Bran, Jojen and the wolves are all connected?
I didn't think about a connection, but you may be onto something. My initial reaction was that direwolves are rare, so seeing one would be a treat for him.
45. What was your first impression when Catelyn approach Lord Renly's little "party"? Her thoughts pretty much summed it up for me:"They are boys drunk on song and story..."
My first impression was that Renly has the manpower to take on the Lannisters, but lack of experience could be their undoing.
46. What do you think of Brienne? Will she play an important role in the story? Do you feel the tiniest bit sorry for her? Her character reminds me a little bit of "Jane" from the HBO show Deadwood. Real tough on the outside, but there's something about her that makes me feel sad for her.
I was surprised the knight was a female. I was impressed with her fighting ability and desire to serve the King. I think it takes great courage for her to go against the grain of society. She is like an older (less attractive) Arya. She could play a major role later. We'll see!
47."King is only a word, but fealty, loyalty, service..those I must have" Should Robb join Renly? I don't think Renly had any of those for his brother, so I think it's funny he's asking that of Robb.
I think Renly's ambition is getting in the way of his honor. I don't really understand his disloyalty to Stannis. It would make things easier if he'd just wait in line a little longer! It could also be that he sees Robb as a child.
48. What is up with all the incest in the book. Craster makes me sick. I cringed when he said "I'm a godly man, and the Gods keep me safe.." Do you think Sam did the right think sending Gilly to Jon? Do you think Jon should have done something for Gilly?
This is tough. What could he have done?? Women aren't allowed to take the Black as far as I can tell. I suppose he could have smuggled her to Winterfell somehow. But, they are on a mission to go farther north. I sure did feel badly for her and her sisters. And how about sacrificing the baby boys?? So sad!
49. Who do you think the Cold Gods, white shadows are? Do you think they eat the children Craster gives them or raises them?
Probably eat them. Weren't there some sort of "monsters" in the prologue of GoT? Need to go back and re-read...
50. I'm getting a bad feeling about Sam. Anyone else think something bad is gonna happen to him?
I didn't have a bad feeling until you mentioned it! :-)
Lisarenee wrote: "Lisa Kay do you have HBO?"Nope. Do you? I have a friend who may give/loan me a copy. I haven't pushed it.
I would highly recommend watching the series. It's very well written and the acting is great. Only thing I didn't really like were the gratuitous "sexposition" scenes in which characters would discuss (sometimes important) things while having sex or standing around in the nude. If these were in the book it wouldn't have bothered me so much, but they were put in there for seemingly no reason.
Sandy, the one scene that comes to mind when you say that is the one where Little finger is talking to two of the brand new girls in his "whorehouse" while they are doing each other.I was like"Come on really?" then my second thought was "Finish already! Sheesh!"
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 24 (Theon) - Chapter 27 (Daenerys) 51. Did you suspect something was up with Esgred’s identity before the big reveal? What is your take on her? Do you like her or not?
52. Do you think Theon and Asha’s relationship will develop into an incestuous one?
53. Do you feel any sympathy for Theon whatsoever? After all, it wasn’t his fault he was held hostage for ten years. Do you think he will be able to “prove” himself? At what cost to his friendship with King Robb?
54. Are you clear on what “plum” Lord Balon Greyjoy plans to steal?
55. How poisoned do you think Cersei is? Will Tyrion do it again? Or will he use something different next time?
56. Did Tyrion make any missteps in his dealings with Ser Cleos Frey cum King Robb? How about with Ser Allister? And Littlefinger?
57. Sorry to say I had to read the pertinent parts twice; however, am I right in thinking Tyrion is going to do a variation of the “Trojan Horse” trick to get into Winterfell? Are Tyrion's long “chains” going to be used there or somewhere else? (Before, I was thinking to block the ships from entering the harbor of King's Landing, but what do I know?)
58. So, Queen Regent Cersei, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycelle all say they didn’t poison Lord Arryn. It is looking more and more as if the Nut Bunny did do it! Does this change anything in your perceptions about these three?
59. Man-oh-man! I am NOT liking where
60. Okay, I’ll admit I was a little lost and had to look in the appendix. Are Xaro Xhoan Daxos (merchant prince of Qarth), Pyat Pree (Qarth warlock) and Quaithe (shadowbinder of Asshai) the three that showed up to see the dragons, right? What is your take on them? If they have something sinister planned, are they in it together or separately? Are you glad Dany learned her lesson with Mirri Maz Duur?
Updated question #57.
Kellyflower wrote: "Sandy, the one scene that comes to mind when you say that is the one where Little finger is talking to two of the brand new girls in his "whorehouse" while they are doing each other.I was like"Com..."
I know! It was ridiculous. He was saying something really meaningful about his backstory, but I missed it because I was too distracted. The recapper on Entertainment Weekly.com said that Ros looked like she was trying to unclog a sewer line. LOL!
My responses to Sandy’s answers.#35 - “He thinks it's just a dream?”
I see that question mark at the end of this statement, LOL! So, I guess we’re still waiting for the Big Reveal.
#37 - “Could he want the kingship for himself?”
God, I hope so… but I doubt it.
#38 – Truthfully, the more I think about it, I was surprised Sansa met with Ser Dontos.
#39 - “I do think he enjoys scaring her, though.”
I was picking that up too, but in some ways he does it to try to help her get a grip on her reality. I am so confused by him.
#40 - “I just keep thinking, can't anything good happen to these people?”
REALLY!
#41 - “…he could play a major role in the war.”
Ahhh… Maybe! Do you think there could be a love interest between him and Arya in the future?
#46 - “She is like an older (less attractive) Arya.”
I likened her devotion to Sansa’s rose-colored glasses, and with your comment, I now think she is a blend of the two sisters. Interesting.
#47 - “It would make things easier if he'd just wait in line a little longer!”
Good point. Hadn’t thought of that. But I do think it is stupid for them to fight each other.
#50 – “I didn't have a bad feeling until you mentioned it! :-)”
Darn, Kellyflower, and her stupid question! (Just kidding!)
52. Do you think Theon and Asha’s relationship will develop into an incestuous one?The way he likes to write sisters and brothers getting it on, marrying one another. I do think it will play some part. Maybe Asha will use sex to control Theon.
53. Theon has turned into this whole different person. I really don't care for him now. But seriously why is it his fault he was taken hostage. His father and sister are buttholes. and back to the whole incest thing. What kind of sister touches her brothers "manhood"?!
54.no
55. I don't think it was anything strong. and Hellz yes he'll do it again! = )
56. Did Tyrion make any missteps ....
No I think he's the one that deserves the nickname spider. He's making his little web and we're all gonna see who sticks and gets caught.
58. .....Grand Maester Pycelle all say they didn’t poison Lord Arryn.
I thought he did poison him.
60. I think they do have something sinister planned. Each on their own. I'm glad Dany learned a lesson, but it was such a hard one!
Drat! Still messing with questions #57 -- but I think I'm done now. Sorry. :)
Nope, I was wrong!
I changed #57 again; I just need to step away from the computer, LOL! Forgive me.
Okay, I'm reading Entertainment Weekly's review/recap of HBO's
AGoT
, and I have to ask: who is Ros? BTW, Sandy, thanks for the mentioning this magazine - love it!
Lisa Kay wrote: "Okay, I reading Entertainment Weekly's review/recap of HBO's AGoT, and I have to ask: who is Ros? BTW, Sandy, thanks for the mentioning this magazine - love it!"In the show, she is a prostitute working in Winterfell. She is Theon's favorite. She decides to pursue her career at King's Landing and goes to work for Littlefinger.
Seriously, those EW.com recaps really helped me keep track of what was going on when I started watching the show but hadn't started the book yet.
Sandy wrote: "In the show, she is a prostitute working in Winterfell. She is Theon's favorite. She decides to pursue her career at King's Landing and goes to work for Littlefinger."Thanks, Sandy! GTK. I splurge when I go to the bookstore and buy EW; love their writers.
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 24 (Theon) - Chapter 27 (Daenerys)51. Did you suspect something was up with Esgred’s identity before the big reveal? What is your take on her? Do you like her or not?
Did not suspect at all! I'm not sure if I like her, but I do like the fact that we have yet another woman who does as she pleases rather than what society expects of her. Her flirtations with Theon were a little gross though, in my opinion!
52. Do you think Theon and Asha’s relationship will develop into an incestuous one?
I sincerely hope not. I don't think Theon would. He seemed pretty disturbed when he realized the truth.
53. Do you feel any sympathy for Theon whatsoever? After all, it wasn’t his fault he was held hostage for ten years. Do you think he will be able to “prove” himself? At what cost to his friendship with King Robb?
I can't help but feel a little bit of sympathy for him due to his circumstances. On the other hand, he has the power to make his own choices now (to an extent) and he can behave honorably. Blood is thicker than water, but Robb has treated him better than his father has. It appears that Theon will side with his family against Robb. I fear one of them will die at the other's hand.
54. Are you clear on what “plum” Lord Balon Greyjoy plans to steal?
Yes, and you were right!
55. How poisoned do you think Cersei is? Will Tyrion do it again? Or will he use something different next time?
I think he just wanted her sick enough to be out of the way while he went about his business. I don't think Tyrion has it in him to kill his sister.
56. Did Tyrion make any missteps in his dealings with Ser Cleos Frey cum King Robb? How about with Ser Allister? And Littlefinger?
I am unclear on his plans. I know he wanted the Lannister guard out of the way, but what of the 4 others that were referred to? Are they to somehow free Jaime? Tyrion should have listened to Ser Allister, but he didn't want to seem superstitious and foolish. Littlefinger will likely get revenge somehow.
57. Sorry to say I had to read the pertinent parts twice; however, am I right in thinking Tyrion is going to do a variation of the “Trojan Horse” trick to get into Winterfell? Are Tyrion's long “chains” going to be used there or somewhere else? (Before, I was thinking to block the ships from entering the harbor of King's Landing, but what do I know?)
Your theory is a good one! I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. I am not a good war strategist so I have no idea!
58. So, Queen Regent Cersei, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycelle all say they didn’t poison Lord Arryn. It is looking more and more as if the Nut Bunny did do it! Does this change anything in your perceptions about these three?
Even if they didn't actually pour the poison, one of them gave the orders. They are all devious. I admit being very surprised that Tyrion would be so cruel to Master P.
59. Man-oh-man! I am NOT liking where Arya "Weasel" is right now. I am, however, loving her prayer list, LOL! You?
I keep thinking it's her list of people she is going to hurt later. :-) At least they are letting her live. Seems like pure luck that she hasn't been killed.
60. Okay, I’ll admit I was a little lost and had to look in the appendix. Are Xaro Xhoan Daxos (merchant prince of Qarth), Pyat Pree (Qarth warlock) and Quaithe (shadowbinder of Asshai) the three that showed up to see the dragons, right? What is your take on them? If they have something sinister planned, are they in it together or separately? Are you glad Dany learned her lesson with Mirri Maz Duur?
I think they are the three. My suspicion (and someone voiced this earlier) is that they want the dragons for themselves. Dany learned a lesson in caution, but it's impossible to know who can and cannot be trusted in this book.
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 24 (Theon) - Chapter 27 (Daenerys)51. Did you suspect something was up with Esgred’s identity before the big reveal? What is your take on her? Do you like her or not?
No. I hadn't a clue. I do like her. Dang she grabbed her brother and unlaced his pants. I just don't like Theon and so I truly loved she put one over on him, but dang, did she really have to do that?
52. Do you think Theon and Asha’s relationship will develop into an incestuous one?
I don't think so, but you can never be to sure. Seems he was a bit disgusted by his sister's treatment. Maybe the Starks did rub off on him.
53. Do you feel any sympathy for Theon whatsoever? After all, it wasn’t his fault he was held hostage for ten years. Do you think he will be able to “prove” himself? At what cost to his friendship with King Robb?
Who's to say it is true friendship? Maybe he was just biding his time. I don't know if he can get back into his father's good graces. We'll have to wait and see. I have a feeling it will come down to him picking between the Starks and Family. They can't all be Kings.
54. Are you clear on what “plum” Lord Balon Greyjoy plans to steal?
Why does the mention of Lord Balon always confuse me? Who is he again? I can't keep the man straight in my head.
55. How poisoned do you think Cersei is? Will Tyrion do it again? Or will he use something different next time?
I think it was enough to get her out of the way when he wanted to do something without her being there or perhaps knowing. Would he kill his sister? I think he could.
56. Did Tyrion make any missteps in his dealings with Ser Cleos Frey cum King Robb? How about with Ser Allister? And Littlefinger?
I think he's proceeding with caution and we'll need to wait and see what he's up to. I look forward to seeing the who picture.
57. Sorry to say I had to read the pertinent parts twice; however, am I right in thinking Tyrion is going to do a variation of the “Trojan Horse” trick to get into Winterfell? Are Tyrion's long “chains” going to be used there or somewhere else? (Before, I was thinking to block the ships from entering the harbor of King's Landing, but what do I know?)
I think Tyrion will promise everything to everyone and only deliver those things that serve his purpose.
58. So, Queen Regent Cersei, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycelle all say they didn’t poison Lord Arryn. It is looking more and more as if the Nut Bunny did do it! Does this change anything in your perceptions about these three?
I think they jointly planned it. Hence, all and none are to blame.
59. Man-oh-man! I am NOT liking where Arya "Weasel" is right now. I am, however, loving her prayer list, LOL! You?
Gah! I hate were Martin keeps stopping where Ayra is concerned.
60. Okay, I’ll admit I was a little lost and had to look in the appendix. Are Xaro Xhoan Daxos (merchant prince of Qarth), Pyat Pree (Qarth warlock) and Quaithe (shadowbinder of Asshai) the three that showed up to see the dragons, right? What is your take on them? If they have something sinister planned, are they in it together or separately? Are you glad Dany learned her lesson with Mirri Maz Duur?
This motley crew just confuses me so. I have no idea what to think about any of them.
My responses to Sandy’s answers.#51 – I knew something was up b/c she was such a “cock tease”, but I couldn’t figure out what . I never would have guessed she was who she was. I don’t like her. The whole thing, and her actions and words in the hall, etc., were mean-spirited.
#52 – “I don't think Theon would.”
Why do I want to agree with you, and yet I feel she could “seduce” him into doing something he doesn’t want to do?
#53 – Mano-a- mano? I hadn’t thought of that. Maybe!
#55 – I don’t think he could kill his sister either.
#56 – “Tyrion should have listened to Ser Allister…”
Yes, I think this was his only misstep. But, I can say that b/c I know Ser Allister was not pulling his leg. I think you are right about Littlefinger.
#58 – Nope. I disagree. Well, I agree, that they were all in it together, but I think they each thought the other did it, but b/f any of them could, the Nut Bunny did it herself. You ladies need to watch more soap operas, LOL! (I don’t, but I did in high-school...a couple of centuries ago, LOL!)
#60 – “it's impossible to know who can and cannot be trusted in this book…”
Man-oh-man! Did you say a mouthful of truth there, Sandy!
My responses to Lisarenee’s answers.#51 – “I just don't like Theon and so I truly loved she put one over on him…”
So, we kind of disagree, but it’s not clear cut, hum? I’m okay with that.
#53 – “They can't all be Kings.”
Why not? There were seven before.
#54 – “Who is he again?”
Lord Balon Greyjoy of the Iron Islands is Theon’s father. Not to worry, I was confused on Lord Beric and Donarrion and guess they are one and the same. (But, I’m still not sure, LOL!)
#55 – “Would he kill his sister? I think he could.”
Wow! Really?! I think I’m going to side with Sandy on this one and say, "Nope."
#59 – “Gah! I hate were Martin keeps stopping where Ayra is concerned.”
I must admit to finally caving and peeking ahead to her next part; I was just so WORRIED about her.
#60 – “I have no idea what to think about any of them.”
Really! WTH is a shadowbinder?
Would you like me to create questions for Chapters 28 - 31? I am also doing chapters 32 - 35. Can I just vent and say, why haven't I learned my lesson about reading book blurbs??
was just released, and like an idiot I read the blurb on bn.com. Now I know certain plot points that I wish I didn't. Nothing detailed, but just the fact that you know who is still alive by book 5 is a spoiler, don't you think?
Thanks for the heads-up, Sandy. I'll stay away from reading the book blurb on that one. :)
Sure. I'm still reading, but almost done.
Sandy said, "Nothing detailed, but just the fact that you know who is still alive by book 5 is a spoiler, don't you think?" Yes! I'd say that's a BIG spoiler.
Questions for Chapter 28 (Bran) through Chapter 31 (Catelyn)61. What do you think about Bran and Jojen both dreaming about 3-eyed crows? What does the crow represent?
62. So, Bran still isn’t sure if he is remembering his fall or merely dreaming about it. What do you think Bran will do if/when he realizes for sure that Jaime Lanniser pushed him off the tower?
63. Why did the direwolves not listen to Bran when he tried calling them off of Jojen and Meera?
64. So now Cersei is sleeping with her cousin Lancel. (What is worse, that he’s her cousin or that he’s a teenager?) Do you believe that Lancel will report Cersei’s actions to Tyrion?
65. Now we know that Tyrion pretends to go to the brothel so that he can visit Shae. Why is it acceptable for him to go to the brothel but not keep a mistress, especially considering he doesn’t have a wife? Is visiting Shae the only reason for the pretense, or do you think he’s up to something else on other nights?
66. So, the “three in the cage” survived the fire after all. Were you surprised that Jaqen approached Arya and pledged three lives to her? Were you happy that she found an ally of sorts? Why do you suppose Arya chose Chiswyck as the first victim instead of the Mountain? Where is Gendry (did I miss something)?
67. Does Catelyn believe that Cersei’s children are Jaime’s?
68. The bickering between Stannis and Renly is almost comical, but the situation is so serious! At least Stannis seemed less zombie-esque in this chapter. He does have the right to the throne, so if Renly loses to him, will Stannis execute his brother for a traitor? This is where I want to say, “Can’t we all just get along?”
Questions for Chapter 28 (Bran) through Chapter 31 (Catelyn)61. What do you think about Bran and Jojen both dreaming about 3-eyed crows? What does the crow represent?
I think Carol said three eyes usually means a person is given the gift of sight. Like a seer. I'm guessing this meas Bran and Jojen are both are Seers. Bran just hasn't used his gift yet.
62. So, Bran still isn’t sure if he is remembering his fall or merely dreaming about it. What do you think Bran will do if/when he realizes for sure that Jaime Lanniser pushed him off the tower?
I'm unsure, but it would be proof of incest. Could that information change things?
63. Why did the direwolves not listen to Bran when he tried calling them off of Jojen and Meera?
I'm not sure but it must be because he was still mad. Maybe a delayed reaction?
64. So now Cersei is sleeping with her cousin Lancel. (What is worse, that he’s her cousin or that he’s a teenager?) Do you believe that Lancel will report Cersei’s actions to Tyrion?
I think him being a teenager is worse. The cousin part depends on if he's the 1st, 2nd, etc. Interesting that Jamie would kill Lancel for sleeping with Cersei.
65. Now we know that Tyrion pretends to go to the brothel so that he can visit Shae. Why is it acceptable for him to go to the brothel but not keep a mistress, especially considering he doesn’t have a wife? Is visiting Shae the only reason for the pretense, or do you think he’s up to something else on other nights?
Maybe it's because she's a whore and Lannisters would be seen poorly for setting one up as a mistress or could be seen as a weekness that could be used against him?
66. So, the “three in the cage” survived the fire after all. Were you surprised that Jaqen approached Arya and pledged three lives to her? Were you happy that she found an ally of sorts? Why do you suppose Arya chose Chiswyck as the first victim instead of the Mountain? Where is Gendry (did I miss something)?
Gendry was assigned to the Forge so Arya doesn't see him often. I was very surprised Jaqen approached Arya. I just hope that like three wishes from a genie in a bottle she uses those death wishes wisely.
67. Does Catelyn believe that Cersei’s children are Jaime’s?
I think she does now. Now we know why the bastards were being sought.
68. The bickering between Stannis and Renly is almost comical, but the situation is so serious! At least Stannis seemed less zombie-esque in this chapter. He does have the right to the throne, so if Renly loses to him, will Stannis execute his brother for a traitor? This is where I want to say, “Can’t we all just get along?”
They are being utterly stupid. Like a house of cards they will easily blow down this way. I agree with Catelyn and we do know it's true, Cresei is laughing.
My Answers to Sandy’s Questions for Chapter 28 (Bran) through Chapter 31 (Catelyn) 61. What do you think about Bran and Jojen both dreaming about 3-eyed crows? What does the crow represent?
I think Jojen does have some type of mystical ability with regards to his dreams; maybe he recognizes a kindred spirit in Bran. Crows symbolize death, survival, omen, ceremonial magic and healing, resourcefulness. In this case, I think it represents Brans ability to have a “third eye” – as in “all seeing” eye.
62. So, Bran still isn’t sure if he is remembering his fall or merely dreaming about it. What do you think Bran will do if/when he realizes for sure that Jaime Lanniser pushed him off the tower?
I thought for sure Bran had figured this treachery out by now. I think he will want an “eye for an eye”.
63. Why did the direwolves not listen to Bran when he tried calling them off of Jojen and Meera?
Don’t know. Maybe they were pulled by Bran conflicting emotions to know more about them and still be upset with them. I don’t think Jojen and Meera intend any hard toward Bran.
64. So now Cersei is sleeping with her cousin Lancel. (What is worse, that he’s her cousin or that he’s a teenager?) Do you believe that Lancel will report Cersei’s actions to Tyrion?
What’s worse? First, that he is so young; second, she is just using him; third, she is unfaithful to Jaime (don’t know why this bothers me, but it does!); forth, she uses sex as a manipulation tool. Yes, Lancel will tell Tyrion some things, but I’m not sure all things.
65. Now we know that Tyrion pretends to go to the brothel so that he can visit Shae. Why is it acceptable for him to go to the brothel but not keep a mistress, especially considering he doesn’t have a wife? Is visiting Shae the only reason for the pretense, or do you think he’s up to something else on other nights?
I think he just doesn’t want his father to know he took Shae to King’s Landing with him. Mistresses have some status, don’t they? Especially at court? I don’t know if that is all Tyrion is up to; I wondered the same thing. I had a kind of “oh, is that all he’s doing” feeling. That didn’t last long as then I started to worry; what is someone finds out about Shae, that fact that Tyrion cares about her, and uses her to manipulate him or harm her??? This book is going to give me an ulcer.
66. So, the “three in the cage” survived the fire after all. Were you surprised that Jaqen approached Arya and pledged three lives to her? Were you happy that she found an ally of sorts? Why do you suppose Arya chose Chiswyck as the first victim instead of the Mountain? Where is Gendry (did I miss something)?
Yes, very surprised! Yes, I was happy, but still leery. I was incredibly happy she chose Chiswyck after the story he told; he relished it too much, whereas the Mountain is just a cold, heartless monster. Still, I hope he is next. I also think she was just testing her “ability” – flexing her “muscle”, if you will.
67. Does Catelyn believe that Cersei’s children are Jaime’s?
Now, there’s a question. I don’t know!
68. The bickering between Stannis and Renly is almost comical, but the situation is so serious! At least Stannis seemed less zombie-esque in this chapter. He does have the right to the throne, so if Renly loses to him, will Stannis execute his brother for a traitor? This is where I want to say, “Can’t we all just get along?”
It is all so very stupid. I just want to say, “Can’t you finish this argument after you both take out the Lannisters?” Geez! Idiots! They don’t deserve to rule. Surely this sibling rivalry can wait.
My responses to Lisarenee's answers Questions for Chapter 28 (Bran) through Chapter 31 (Catelyn)#62 - "Could that information change things?"
Good you asked this question again. I was asking it way back in the first book, when I thought that info would surely come out. Now, what does it do? Cement the fact more? Surely Martin has a reason for it’s delay.
#63 - "Maybe a delayed reaction?"
You know, now that I read your answer, I wonder if Bran's emotions interferred with his ability to connect with the wolves via commands. Or, yes, you could be right; they probably still felt his upset and didn't listen to his words. Interesting.
#65 - I think the fact that she is a whore would upset Tyrion's father, especially as I think mistresses have some sort of status. Tywin is all about presentation.
Lisa Kay, The whole delayed reaction would give credence to your mind meld theory.
Lisarenee wrote: "Lisa Kay, The whole delayed reaction would give credence to your mind meld theory."You mean b/c the direwolves knew he was still upset? So, are you 100% sure that is what is happening? They are mind-melding? Even in day time? I thought he was just joining them at night... but then, that wouldn't explain the howling. So yeah, I'm sticking with mind-meld (talking to myself now).
You know, I dreamed something brilliant about Sansa last night - about the consequences of her not having Lady with her anymore, being trapped in the Lannister’s house of death. And Ayra and Nymeris both being lost. It really was brilliant (in my mind, anyway, LOL) and darn if I can put it into words now. I should keep a notebook by my bed.
Okay, I'm really hooked on this series. I went to the bookstore to buy
. I was careful not to read the book blurbs. **sigh** I didn't buy the hardcover of a
. Maybe I'll use a special additional 25% off coupon on top of my membership discount. BTW, I know we are doing 1-4, but are we going on to book #5 in October?
Lisarenee, you can schedule me in for another day of questions when you want. Just let me know (and I'll still need a back-up). Thanks!
Oh, Lisa Kay, I am fearing Sansa may meet the same fate as Lady!RE: Tyrion/Shae, that is an excellent point, someone may try to threaten her to get to Tyrion. Oh, poor, poor Shae!!
Questions for Chapter 32 (Sansa) – Chapter 35 (Bran)69. Oh, Sansa, I am so afraid for you! I loved how Tyrion defended her. Even so, it doesn’t appear that Sansa trusts Tyrion. Is she right not to?
70. Where is Barriston Selmy? I think it would be interesting if he somehow went over to Dany’s side.
71. What the heck happened to Renly? Did someone stab him from outside the tent? Or was it really the Red Lady’s magic?
72. I really wish Robb would drop the King of the North claim. What are his chances against Stannis and his “sorcery”?
73. Ghost leads Jon to a cache of buried weapons. Do you think the cloak belongs to his Uncle Ben? Did Ben bury the items or is a darker force at work?
74. The young Walders aren’t too upset about their uncle’s death. What does this say about them? Do you think their entire family is coldhearted?
75. Jojen says the greendreams do not lie and nothing can change their outcome. He dreams of the sea overtaking Winterfell. Does this foreshadow a victory for Theon Greyjoy and his family who follow the Drowned God? I am REALLY afraid for Bran and Rickon! I am really mad at Robb for leaving Winterfell undefended. Very tense here!
My Answers to Sandy’s Questions for Chapter 32 (Sansa) – Chapter 35 (Bran) 69. Oh, Sansa, I am so afraid for you! I loved how Tyrion defended her. Even so, it doesn’t appear that Sansa trusts Tyrion. Is she right not to?
I am very worried about Sansa. Ditto with Tyrion’s defense of her. I think Tyrion means her no harm at all, nor will he manipulate her. That said, I can’t blame her for not trusting him. She is in her own private hell right now, and she doesn’t dare trust anyone. The only reason she does with Ser Dontos is b/c she sees him in his own private hell too.
70. Where is Barriston Selmy? I think it would be interesting if he somehow went over to Dany’s side.
I have been wondering about him for ages now! Even when he wasn’t mentioned b/c he is another favorite character of mine. Where is he? I keep expecting him to pop up. With Dany!? Wow, I hadn’t thought of that. Now that would be really neat! Alas, I don’t trust Martin to make me that happy, LOL!
71. What the heck happened to Renly? Did someone stab him from outside the tent? Or was it really the Red Lady’s magic?
I think it was Red Lady’s* magic. Totally shocked me! I was just thinking what a nitwit he was to want his army to face the enemy with the sun in their eyes and – wham! Totally unexpected. Could NOT read that part fast enough to find out WHAT HAPPENED!
NOTE on Lady Melisandre*: I’ve noticed how Martin has written two unlikeable characters with a variation of “Lisa/Lysa” within their names. **pouts**
72. I really wish Robb would drop the King of the North claim. What are his chances against Stannis and his “sorcery”?
Really?! Humm… Now you have me worried about him. But remember, he did not make himself King; his people did, so it makes it a little difficult/awkward to step down.
73. Ghost leads Jon to a cache of buried weapons. Do you think the cloak belongs to his Uncle Ben? Did Ben bury the items or is a darker force at work?
I was thinking they might be his Uncle Ben’s or some deserter’s; however, as usual, you now have me wondering about other nefarious alternatives.
74. The young Walders aren’t too upset about their uncle’s death. What does this say about them? Do you think their entire family is coldhearted?
75. Jojen says the greendreams do not lie and nothing can change their outcome. He dreams of the sea overtaking Winterfell. Does this foreshadow a victory for Theon Greyjoy and his family who follow the Drowned God? I am REALLY afraid for Bran and Rickon! I am really mad at Robb for leaving Winterfell undefended. Very tense here!
Yes, Sandy, I think that is exactly what I think it means. I’m afraid too! Not much forethought was given about the various possibilities of all the people who would want a piece of King Robert’s pie.
Answers to Sandy’s Questions for Chapter 32 (Sansa) – Chapter 35 (Bran)Sorry, I keep randomly jumping in to answer questions rather than answer all of them! It's mostly because I'm too busy to keep up with all the questions (and partly because if I know the answer to something I don't want to risk spoiling anyone)
69. Oh, Sansa, I am so afraid for you! I loved how Tyrion defended her. Even so, it doesn’t appear that Sansa trusts Tyrion. Is she right not to?
I would be annoyed if Sansa did trust him. Because that would mean she didn’t learn anything from when she placed her faith in Joffrey and Cersei. As cool as Tyrion is, he’s still a Lannister and he’s proven he can be quite tricky. I think her distrust shows how her character has grown because of what she's been through.
70. Where is Barristan Selmy? I think it would be interesting if he somehow went over to Dany’s side.
You know, I wondered where he was too. Most of the time, even if we don't see them, it's mentioned where a character is or what he/she is doing. But no one seems to know where Barristan is. Which actually lends credence to the thought that he went to Dany. If he crossed the sea, then almost no one would know (maybe Varys would find out. He seems awfully knowledgeable about what happens there).
71. What the heck happened to Renly? Did someone stab him from outside the tent? Or was it really the Red Lady’s magic?
I think we’re supposed to assume it was Melisandre’s magic. Catelyn seemed to think that it was only a shadow (as opposed to a shadow cast by a person who was there) and she's the only viewpoint we get.
72. I really wish Robb would drop the King of the North claim. What are his chances against Stannis and his “sorcery”?
Well, Robb doesn’t know about (or at least believe in) the power of the sorcery. But also, once you’ve been crowned I feel like it’s difficult to take it back and step down. Especially since he went to war over his father. It would look really bad for him and he would lose all respect from his bannermen. They might even revolt against him once they returned to the north.
73. Ghost leads Jon to a cache of buried weapons. Do you think the cloak belongs to his Uncle Ben? Did Ben bury the items or is a darker force at work?
Initially, I thought immediately of Benjen, but there’s really no reason for me to think it was him. I think it would be cool if they were there even longer, like for hundreds of years. Although, wouldn’t the cloak disintegrate over that time? So maybe that’s not possible…
74. The young Walders aren’t too upset about their uncle’s death. What does this say about them? Do you think their entire family is coldhearted?
I think there’s just so many Freys that they can’t all be bothered to care about one another. For a lot of them, they have no chance of actually becoming Lord Frey because there’s so many that come before them, so when one dies I think they're probably secretly happy. And I do think they’re all a little coldhearted. You saw the way Lord Walder Frey was; I can’t imagine living with him is a lovely environment.
75. Jojen says the greendreams do not lie and nothing can change their outcome. He dreams of the sea overtaking Winterfell. Does this foreshadow a victory for Theon Greyjoy and his family who follow the Drowned God? I am REALLY afraid for Bran and Rickon! I am really mad at Robb for leaving Winterfell undefended. Very tense here!
I associated sea with the Greyjoys as well.
I’m not mad at Robb for leaving Winterfell the way he did, because normally there would be no threat. He was in the south with the army, so no one is attacking from that direction, and the Wall is to the north, so no one is coming from there. What I am mad about is that he put complete trust in Theon and sent him back to his father alone.
(Edit: Plus, Theon was a hostage to keep his father in line. Which makes it even worse to send Theon back!)
Honestly, that seemed like a bad move at the time and as time goes on it makes me even more frustrated.
Lisa Kay and Laura, you're right about Robb not being able to step down easily. Laura, good point re: trusting Theon. Did anyone advise Robb not to send Theon? I want to go back and check this at some point.
RE: Melisandre, it's hard for me to believe there's magic at play, but for goodness' sake we've got zombies and dragons so why not magic? I need to remember what genre I'm reading. :-)
As an aside, there's not nearly enough Dany in this book in my opinion.
(Also, I didn't think I could become as obsessed with another series as I am with Outlander, but I am! I'll be bummed after reading book 5 since apparently GRRM takes his own sweet time writing. I guess I will have to console myself with a re-read of Outlander.)
Questions for Chapter 32 (Sansa) – Chapter 35 (Bran)69. Oh, Sansa, I am so afraid for you! I loved how Tyrion defended her. Even so, it doesn’t appear that Sansa trusts Tyrion. Is she right not to?
He's a Lannister and therefore she can't trust him. His loyalty lies with his family first even if they are awful.
70. Where is Barriston Selmy? I think it would be interesting if he somehow went over to Dany’s side.
He dose seem to be missing.
71. What the heck happened to Renly? Did someone stab him from outside the tent? Or was it really the Red Lady’s magic?
It was shadow magic, for lack of a better term. The Red Lady seems to have some power after all. Did anyone doubt it? *raises hand* I doubted it, but that was then....
72. I really wish Robb would drop the King of the North claim. What are his chances against Stannis and his “sorcery”?
That's how I feel to, but once he got a taste of power I'm not sure he'll want to go back.
73. Ghost leads Jon to a cache of buried weapons. Do you think the cloak belongs to his Uncle Ben? Did Ben bury the items or is a darker force at work?
I'm clueless as to why someone would have stashed the arrowheads and cloak there.
74. The young Walders aren’t too upset about their uncle’s death. What does this say about them? Do you think their entire family is coldhearted?
Starting to think so.
75. Jojen says the greendreams do not lie and nothing can change their outcome. He dreams of the sea overtaking Winterfell. Does this foreshadow a victory for Theon Greyjoy and his family who follow the Drowned God? I am REALLY afraid for Bran and Rickon! I am really mad at Robb for leaving Winterfell undefended. Very tense here!
I am also worried about them and thought one of the families with a sea sigil must take over the castle. I don't see why the green dreams can't change.
Lisa Kay said, "NOTE on Lady Melisandre*: I’ve noticed how Martin has written two unlikeable characters with a variation of “Lisa/Lysa” within their names. **pouts**"I don't like that either.
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A Dance with Dragons (other topics)A Game of Thrones (other topics)
A Game of Thrones (other topics)
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#42 - "She's horrible.
Very true!
#42 - Still not clear on the dreams. But understanding them a bit better.
#44 - Mindmeld! :)
#48 - "hope we're done with that, but why do I feel we're not."
Oh, puke! We're not?
#50 - Really?! He might? Wow!