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Which Fantasy Author Did You Find Most Disappointing?
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MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*
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Jun 12, 2012 07:14AM
You know who I was really disappointed in? Ursula K. Le Guin. I read A Wizard of Earthsea and was horribly bored.
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Sorry to hear that MrsJoseph. It was actually one of my favorites, though I read it when young and I'm not 100% sure how I would feel about if I read it today.
Michael wrote: "Sorry to hear that MrsJoseph. It was actually one of my favorites, though I read it when young and I'm not 100% sure how I would feel about if I read it today."I did read it as an adult and after I read the first book in Philip José Farmer's Riverworld series To Your Scattered Bodies Go. Which I thought was a rather wonderful piece of spec fic. I should finish that series up but for some reason it didn't resonate with me.
I like the "present" sections in The Name of the Wind better too. I like that Kvothe more. I don't mind the full of himself narrative what I couldn't stand is nothing happens. I assumed first book school, second book set up for kingslaying, third book kingslaying. At this point im not sure he'll be out of school by the the last book.
Mrs J, I thought To Your Scattered Bodies Go was really interesting but the series gets pretty weird.
Traci wrote: "Mrs J, I thought To Your Scattered Bodies Go was really interesting but the series gets pretty weird."I've heard that. I have the entire series but have been loathe to pick them up.
Traci wrote: "I like the "present" sections in The Name of the Wind better too. I like that Kvothe more. I don't mind the full of himself narrative what I couldn't stand is nothing happens. I assumed first book ..."^This.
Kvothe is very a typical spoiled and bragging brat.
Hugely disappointed in NotW. I pretty much skimmed the last 50 pages or so. To me it was like an adult version of Harry Potter, but without the fun. I was briefly thinking of reading the sequel, but from what I'm seeing here, it's not better.Also just finished (part skimmed, actually) Midnight Mass by F. Paul Wilson. I was so excited to see something from him I haven't known about because I'm such a Repairman Jack fan. This was totally blah and offensive to boot.
@Masha - do you think your disappointment with NotW came from having high initial expectations? I know that for me it is when I "expect" something to be amazing that I get most disappointed in when it doesn't match what I thought I would love.
I liked the past parts where he was in school better then the present ones.
I usually have great luck with epic fantasy.Name of the Wind, but I'm going to give it another chance on audiobook.
Carol Berg's Flesh and Spirit, but that may just be the content and setting I don't like.
Damali wrote: "Carol Berg's Flesh and Spirit, but that may just be the content and setting I don't like. "Have you ever read anything else by Berg? I ask because I read The Spirit Lens by her which came highly recommended and which should've been up my alley, but which I also came away from feeling rather ho-hum and disappointed about.
No, I haven't read anything else by her. I'm going to have to read the descriptions closely before I decide what to read next. I usually just skim them. I definitely don't like ghosts or spirits, if it's the main part of the story. Hauntings or anything like that is not my thing.
Every time I see someone mentioning that WMF is not moving the plot forward, I find myself wondering which plot they are referring too.The trilogy is about Kvothe telling his life story, telling his version of the legend of Kvothe Kingkiller. It's basically a series of "short" stories that tell the defining events of his life rather than a single story with a single plot. It's an Epic, in the classical sense of the word. Like the Odyssey.
I've seen people comment (not here, in various places) that Rothfuss should just ditch half those intermezzos and get on with the main story about the Chandrian. Those people are completely missing the point of the story. The book isn't about the Chandrian, they aren't the "main story", it's about Kvothe and how his legend came to be. The Chandrian are just one factor in all that.
In short, IMO a lot of people expect the Kingkiller trilogy to be something it isn't. I think that's one of the main reasons some people are disappointed with the book. It's just not their kind of book.
Well, that and people just not liking the main character. Which happens, nothing wrong with that. It's kind of hard to like a first person, character focused book when you don't like the character who's head space you are sharing.
However, I feel that the Mary Sue accusations are doing Rothfuss and Kvothe a disservice. And the term Mary Sue for that matter. People throw that term around to the point where it has lost all meaning as literary critique, definitely its original meaning. "I don't like that character, he must be a Mary Sue!" The core traits of a Mary Sue are a character that is idealized and cliché to the point of being one dimensional and serving as authorial wish fulfillment.
If you really believe those traits to apply to Kvothe you need the read to book again.
IMO he's brilliantly, complexly written. Indeed, he is larger than life, that's the whole point. He's not just your average Joe, he's like Mozart or da Vinci. So yes, Kvothe is hypercompetent in some areas, yes, he gets all the girls (Rothfuss has said on several occasions that parts of Kvothe are based on the character of Casanova.) and yes he's overly clever. He's also arrogant, stubborn, reckless, in certain areas rather naive, extremely dense at times in the way only teenagers can be, and sometimes a bit of an ass. His personality gets him into serious trouble at least as often as his skill gets him out of it and he bears the emotional and physical scars as proof of the fact that he rarely does so unscathed. His main failing is that for all his skill and cleverness, most of the time he isn't as good and clever as he himself thinks he is. So no, definitely not a Mary Sue.
The third book in the series is my most anticipated book ever. Rothfuss has a real flair for language (read the part where Kvothe stays with Felurian and pay attention to the dialogue, how it's structured) and is a master story teller, there has been so much rich world building, so many hints and little bits of teasing and layers within layers of foreshadowing all through out the series. I can't wait to see how it all comes together.
Sorry about the long post, but there was so much negativity towards what IMO is one of the greatest works of fantasy of the past and coming decade that I couldn't help but commenting. :p
I agree that the Mary Sue/Gary Stu term is often used too broadly for any character people don't like.That said, I still think Kvothe comes across as a Gary Stu or, at best, a wish-fulfillment insert on the part of the author. No, I will not read it again. I honestly doubt I would like him any better or find him any less of an insufferable golden-boy - or find the story less boring - were I to read it again.
We are both, of course, perfectly within our rights to continue thinking each other wrong. :)
± Colleen (of the Crawling Chaos) ± wrote: "We are both, of course, perfectly within our rights to continue thinking each other wrong."We certainly are. :p
I do love Patrick Rothfuss' response in an online Q&A when someone confronted him (in a rather dickish way, I might add) with the fact that some people found Kvothe to be a Mary Sue:
I could give a f***. They can think Kvothe is a dolphin if they want, it doesn't make them right.
Nor does it make us wrong just because he thinks so. :>ETA: I was going to avoid this rant, but I just couldn't help but commenting. *grin*
Why do people have such a hard time with the difference between fact and opinion?
Whether or not Kvothe is a dolphin or not is a demonstrable fact - i.e. either true or false. Whether or not Kvothe is a Gary Stu type character is an opinion - i.e. neither demonstrably true nor false.
@ Kevin B, as one of the readers who think the overall story is going to slow I'll answer why I have this opinion. (view spoiler)
± Colleen (of the Crawling Chaos) ± wrote: "Nor does it make us wrong just because he thinks so. :>"^This
I hated Kvothe and feel that there is no way he could be more of a Gary Stu. I was also bored shitless while at the same time being tortured by how bad his life was. Then to make matters worse, he's smart but an ass at the same time. *sigh* DNF all the way.
Traci wrote: "@ Kevin B, as one of the readers who think the overall story is going to slow I'll answer why I have this opinion. The series is called Kingslayer. We know he's infamous for killing a king. We know..."Him being in school sounds more interesting than when he owned the bar. I only got about halfway through.
As an aside, in the story of his past I preferred the parts where he was younger... the bits with (view spoiler)I know some people felt it only picked up once he got to school, but I thought the school parts were the worst.
MrsJoseph wrote: "± Colleen (of the Crawling Chaos) ± wrote: "Nor does it make us wrong just because he thinks so. :>"^This
I hated Kvothe and feel that there is no way he could be more of a Gary Stu. I was als..."
smart and ass make up a smartass ^^
Traci wrote: "@ Kevin B, as one of the readers who think the overall story is going to slow I'll answer why I have this opinion. The series is called Kingslayer. We know he's infamous for killing a king. We know..."I find that a very ... arbitrary reasoning. (view spoiler) The whole of the Wise Man's Fear is filled with reasons why he is a legend ...
That's the point I was trying to make. Each and every event he tells us of is important. They're all instrumental in the rise of his legend and his ultimate downfall.
Traci and KevinB, please throw some spoiler markers in there. Since this is a general thread, you may find people that still want to read the book. Thank you!
But he's committed the ultimate crime: He's booooring.
Carol, sorry and done. Usually I'm more careful about that. :(
KevinB wrote: "Traci wrote: "@ Kevin B, as one of the readers who think the overall story is going to slow I'll answer why I have this opinion. The series is called Kingslayer. We know he's infamous for killing a..."Maybe. But maybe that's my problem. And the point of the series that I'm missing. I don't know. Like I said I loved the first, thought the second boring, but I'm prepared to love the third. I think that Rothfuss can absolutely write. Any disappointment I have had is just personal taste. (view spoiler)
MrsJoseph wrote: "But he's committed the ultimate crime: He's booooring."^ This. :>
I was left fairly cold by the series, and I wanted to like, maybe even tried to. I detailed my problems with it in my reviews but one thing I didn't mention there is that the *heart idea* or main plot point we seem to be moving toward is one version of an idea that David Gemmell used in his Waylander books (and these are excellent). I suppose that since I love the Gemmell books and they are among my favorites that these slow, repetitive and even derivative books would bore me a bit. This is especially true for me in the annoying Denne story line.
Carol wrote: "Traci and KevinB, please throw some spoiler markers in there. Since this is a general thread, you may find people that still want to read the book. Thank you!"Done and apologies.
I'm not a fan of spoilers myself, but in this case, everything that was in my post can be learned from the books' back covers, so that's why I didn't initially bother to put the spoiler tags.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I was left fairly cold by the series, and I wanted to like, maybe even tried to. I detailed my problems with it in my reviews but one thing I didn't mention there is that the *heart idea* or main p..."Waylander is one of my favorite characters. They don't make em like him anymore.
I'm with you on that theory, KevinB. However, we have some members that don't even read those because they've learned that spoils the read for them.
Carol wrote: "I'm with you on that theory, KevinB. However, we have some members that don't even read those because they've learned that spoils the read for them."I do that. I only read the blurb if I'm trying to make up my mind to buy. If I already know or if I've already started the series I don't read the blurb.
I'm doing that right now with the Jig the Goblin series. I read the blurb for book 1 before I bought it. As soon as I realized I enjoyed the book and wanted to finish out the series, I ordered books 2 & 3 without reading the blurb. The only thing I know about the books is that the character Jig is still in them and the titles of the books.Goblin Quest
KevinB, thanks and I really appreciate your post. I know I threw around a very irritating phrase, and I know it does not determine at all how enjoyable a book will be. I used it because I honestly am incredulous at the hypertalented, eyes that change colour, uberskilled Kvothe; I personally simply couldn't like Kvothe, and he felt like authorial wish fulfillment to me--not only in his extreme skill level at basically everything, but in the adulation he receives universally in-world. I am a contrary reader; if the narrative tells me I should love and adore a character and that he's incredibly intelligent and skilled, I'll probably hate him. As someone who tends to care a lot about how female characters are presented, the one-dimensionality I saw in the female characters and the constant comments like, "Each woman is like an instrument, waiting to be learned, loved, and finely played, to have at last her own true music made" made me furious, both with the book and with Kvothe.I think you bring up an important point in terms of narrative pace. It sounds like people really enjoy Rothfuss' lyrical style. I have no poetry in my soul, and thus the narrative feels slow and the couplet style of certain portions was irritating to me. As a female reader who mainly reads satire and mystery and has a tendency to dislike epic fantasy, I think I'm just not really in the target audience for this one. However, I really appreciated hearing the things other people loved--the poetic style, the sense of really exploring the world, etc.
Also, on the spoiler tagging--I don't see anything in my post that is a spoiler, please let me know if there's something here I should tag. In terms of the back of the book spoilers, I recently read one (Garret, PI, #3) where the back had no relation to the actual story, so I guess maybe the info from the book's covers is considered suspect enough that it doesn't have the weight the same info does here.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Carol wrote: "I'm with you on that theory, KevinB. However, we have some members that don't even read those because they've learned that spoils the read for them."I do that. I only read the blur..."
I always skim the blurbs. If I'm continuing a series, I don't read them at all until I'm done, if ever.
i loved NOTW. i have the sequel, but after reading so many reviews going on about how mediocre it is, the enthusiasm burned off and now it is just waiting on the shelf with the rest of the horde.
I know that feeling. I have that about the Iron Druid. Everyone else just about hates it.
mark wrote: "i loved NOTW. i have the sequel, but after reading so many reviews going on about how mediocre it is, the enthusiasm burned off and now it is just waiting on the shelf with the rest of the horde."If you loved the first book, you shouldn't let someone else's opinion change your mind about a series. I tend to steer clear of reviews in that situation, for just that resaon.
oh, it hasn't changed my mind - my love for the first book remains intact! it has just... lessened my enthusiasm.
mark wrote: "oh, it hasn't changed my mind - my love for the first book remains intact! it has just... lessened my enthusiasm."Agh, don't feel that way! Yikes, I hope my starting the post about WMF didn't add to discouragement. I've seen a massive number of positive reviews, many from viewers that I really respect--enough that it left me feeling that I was the only one out there who didn't get it. I think if you liked the writing style of the first, and weren't irritated by Kvothe, you'll really like the second.
Damali wrote: "mark wrote: "i loved NOTW. i have the sequel, but after reading so many reviews going on about how mediocre it is, the enthusiasm burned off and now it is just waiting on the shelf with the rest of..."I dont fully trust reviews ever since I read A feast for crows that ppl kept bitching about so much and it ended up by me loving the book, along with A dance with dragons
I have heard many fans of the series say they loved #2 even more Mark. :) We all are coming from different places in terms of deciding what books we like and do not like.
Razmatus wrote: "Damali wrote: "mark wrote: "i loved NOTW. i have the sequel, but after reading so many reviews going on about how mediocre it is, the enthusiasm burned off and now it is just waiting on the shelf w..."I think the key is to keep reviews in perspective, rely more on ones where you know the reviewer has similar tastes but even then each of us may have a different reaction to a book.
this is actually all very good to read. i feel my enthusiasm, creeping back!Razmatus: regarding AFFC.... YES! agree, agree.
My hope is that the second book is just a case of it being the middle book. I'd recommend reading it. It's not as bad as some might be getting the impression of. I'll be getting the third as soon as it comes out. So I obviously didn't hate it. It was disappointment more than that.
Razmatus wrote: "Damali wrote: "mark wrote: "i loved NOTW. i have the sequel, but after reading so many reviews going on about how mediocre it is, the enthusiasm burned off and now it is just waiting on the shelf w..."The trouble with GRRM is that people have had generations to find things to complain about. A series should never go on as long as it has. (It's the author's choice, and I don't care that much.) But there should still be laws, darn it! Court reporters are jailed for not completing their work in a timely manner...just saying. :D
Regina wrote: "Razmatus wrote: "Damali wrote: "mark wrote: "i loved NOTW. i have the sequel, but after reading so many reviews going on about how mediocre it is, the enthusiasm burned off and now it is just waiti..."I usually read the best and worst reviews as for rating - reading the high ratings will get you to see what ppl loved about the book, the worst will show you what ppl dont like at the book, and then you can think on those and decide if you agree or not... it sometimes happened that ppl who gave 1-2 star ratings for some books listed reasons that were regarding things that I on the contrary loved - e.g. a person would say he hates some Erikson's book because the pace is damn slow, too much philosophy etc. - which is something where I see sth like hmm I like contemplative parts, that sounds good to me... so picking up bits and pieces I can put together a fairly good picture on which I judge whether it is worth it picking up the book or not
Damali wrote: "The trouble with GRRM is that people have had generations to find things to complain about. A series should never go on as long as it has. (It's the author's choice, and I don't care that much.) But there should still be laws, darn it! Court reporters are jailed for not completing their work in a timely manner...just saying. :D "QFT
mark wrote: "i loved NOTW. i have the sequel, but after reading so many reviews going on about how mediocre it is, the enthusiasm burned off and now it is just waiting on the shelf with the rest of the horde."Meh. If you care about reviews: On this site TWMF has 63% 5 star votes. And anonther 26% 4 stars. There aren't a lot of books that manage those numbers. I'd say that most people don't find the book mediocre at all.
The few really bad reviews seem mostly people getting hung up on the sex fairy thing ... whatever.
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