Karen Chance Fans discussion
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Curse the Dawn
The Cassie Books
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Curse the Dawn (Cassandra Palmer #4)
Control freaks unite!! :DPritkin is bossy but he's honest. He tell you to your face what he wants and you can have a good fight about it. I have no problem with that kind of behaviour. Sometimes a good battle of wills is quite exciting.
Mircea, on the other hand, is sneaky. He'll go behind your back to get what he wants, and he'll decide what's best (like with Cassie's coronation). I find this behaviour somewhat deceitful and I intensely dislike people making decisions that affect me without bothering to consult me.
So Pritkin wins this one for me. :)
Pritkin wins it for sure. But if I choose a KC main protaganist, it would be Cyrus (is that his name? Lia's Were...) over the 2 of them. Any Day :)
They are BOTH control freaks. Pritkin doesn't just control her training but what she EATS too...I think that would drive me crazy. Mircea is sneaky, but KC even said they are having problems because Mircea isn't treating her like a master vamp, which he should, but it's mainly because of the senate (AKA, the Consul). And he does seem to still go behind her back about things, but at the same time, he TELLS her he's going behind her back about things.Pritkin...he keeps a lot from her too. Things that she kind of needed to know a little sooner...ROSIER for one...the real truth about his wife for another...but he is just as controlling as Mircea, but in other ways.
What makes me laugh though, is that Mircea talks about how since he was BORN he was never allowed to be alone, since he was always in danger, so he always had guards. I think that because of his childhood, and because he loves Cassie, he tries so hard to do what HE believes is best. I think he is very much taking a card from Marlowe, when he wants to lock up the Consul for her own good, except instead of locking her up, he just keeps her out of things because he is deathly afraid of losing her. And Cassie is afraid of losing Mircea too. When she talks about how he isn't eternal, I just felt so awful, because of how sad Cassie sounded. She loves Mircea, and the mere THOUGHT of him dying has her freaking out. Loved it. Except if Mircea died I...do not know what I would do...
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HAHAHAHAHA I think that was partly confidence slip, part PURE confusion since Pritkin must have stormed in looking FURIOUS. I can just imagine it, he isnt' red, he is bloodless in his face and just SEETHING. And Mircea just raises that eyebrow...
Yeah there's good evidence that Mircea is a bit worried about Pritkin (who mentions it in HtM to an apparently oblivious Cassie in that moment in the pizza parlour), but you'd think that moment when Pritkin is livid about his one shaved leg wouldn't have made Mircea worry more. Unless he recognises the peculiarly erotic allure of Cassie when she's pissing people off.Oh, the bizarre manscaping I would do if I had a man's body for a couple of days! *wishful thinking* I wonder if Cassie later regrets that she didn't fully take advantage of the rare opportunity she was given? :)
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Lol wellllll, the only other way they could have gotten that way is when he was sleeping...oh god...that would explain why there was only one shaved...
I'm quite sure she shaved both his legs...
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Lol I think that it's because she compares the one hairless leg to the other when Billy gets in the shower with her.
No she definitely ended up shaving them both
Cassie Palmer: she's nothing if not thorough
No leg left unshaved.
Perfection=this discussion.
Wheezing with laughter
Lannister wrote: "No leg left unshaved."Bless this post
So when Cassie goes with Marlowe to rescue a prisoner after MAGIC collapsed, the one he wants is a woman with red hair and gray eyes. A witch in stasis in the circle's prison. Do you guys think it could have been Gillian? And if not, who do you think it was?
I didn't think that Marlowe particularly wanted the red-haired woman?? The Senate wanted the mage guy to implicate Saunders and the woman just happened to be in the stasis cell next to his. Marlowe certainly shows no sign of recognising her, I don't believe.The red hair similarity to Gillian is striking, but there's been a few red haired magic users, like Claire (presumably people in her family had red hair too?) Maybe it's a witchy thing LOL!
Maybe I read it wrong but I could have sworn that he wanted the red-haired woman. ah well.
Here is the part where Marlowe is with Cassie in the prison. It seems like he's willing to let them die, and Cassie keeps looking at the red-head because she almost seems conscious.We stopped in front of a cell containing a middle-aged man with frizzy brown hair. Marlowe worked to get the ward on his door to release while I glanced at the cells on either side of him. One contained a red-haired woman with a sly, calculating look on her face.I can't remember but do we know who the middle aged guy is?
The Senate were trying to set up Saunders for blackmail, after they discovered he was selling the Silver Circle's magic to the Black. This particular mage was the one with the evidence to implicate Saunders. In Chapter 25, Marlowe explains:"The man you helped me release from the Circle's prison brokered the original deal for Saunders," Marlowe explained. "He was the liaison between the Circle and the final purchaser of their power. Saunders locked him away after the deal was finalized, to keep him quiet."I liked this scene because it shows how downright nasty and scheming vamps can be. That Saunders was selling magic to the Black Circle was of secondary importance to the fact that they wanted to manipulate him into being under their control.
Nasty, nasty vamps!
Thanks, Lannister :)I remember that bit, I just wondered if we knew him, but obviously we didn't. After Roger turning up at the beginning, you never know who you're going to unexpectedly bump into to!
That completely showed what the vamps (all the Senate - Mircea included!) are really like. I actually did agree with Pritkin's antagonism towards them at that point, because it was true, the vamps wanted to control the Silver Circle.
Sorry for repeating what you already knew! :)I don't think we've encountered that mage before, but maybe he'll pop up again at some point.
And, yeah, Pritkin is right about the vamps. He's said from the start that they're utterly self-serving, and he was correct. I wonder if maybe his antagonism towards Mircea is rooted in this fact. He didn't want to see Cassie spend so much time with a selfish, manipulative vampire, because it was bad for her and bad for Pythian office. And then, over time, it got a little more personal ....!
No worries, thanks for taking the time! My wording of the question was rubbish so my fault :PHaha, so true! I think he equates vampires to demons and I bet he thinks they're manipulating or will manipulate Cassie... and Cassie is a bit of a sore spot for him!
I wonder what Pritkin thinks of weres. He dislikes demons and vamps. He doesn't seem overly fond of the fey, since they keep trying to kill him. Is there any supernatural, apart from his fellow mages, that he does like and respect LOL!
I recently re-read the House at Cobb's End and he seems to have a great deal of respect for the fey in that story. He recollects when he was a kid and the fey came and spent an entire summer teaching him even though they were under no obligation to do so because the amount of fey blood he had was too little to claim him.
Pritkin doesn't seem to like anyone...well...he likes Jonas (sometimes...), Agnes (because she was Pythia), Caleb (when he isn't trying to kill Cassie and being a stupid sheep following orders blindly), and Cassie (when she is (RARELY) doing what he wants her to do and not giving him an ulcer). And...that's about it...
Bell, I'd forgotten about Pritkin's dealings with the Fey in House at Cobb's End, and you're right. Pritkin did seem to respect them.Aileen, LOL! Poor Pritkin, it's kinda sad really that he doesn't have any real friends. I'm not even certain you could say he 'liked' Agnes. I think he had a great deal of respect for her, but I don't see them hanging out and shooting the breeze. I don't see Pritkin casually hanging out with anyone. I had the impression that even some of his fellow mages were a bit wary of him.
Poor guy needs some loving!
Lannister wrote: "Poor guy needs some loving! "I will selflessly offer myself up. Now now, no one needs to put themselves out. I'm quite fine with taking on this responsibility.
Oh Josie, you're so generous and giving!! :P
It's just the kind of girl I am Lannister :P
I think Cassie may be Pritkin's only friend. He tells her in one of the books that she's the only one who calls him Pritkin- I think it's a familiarity thing. Although, I'm sure Caleb and he were friends-ish in the past, and they'll probably become friends again now.
Pritkin needs to get out more.
I'm almost done with my re-read of this one in preparation for RTW. I just love these books, and I definitely loved books 4-6 the most since the focus really shifts from Mircea to Pritkin, lol. Obviously I have my favorite, but on re-reading these, I just like Mircea less than I originally did too. Pritkin is also concerned for Cassie's safety, and there was the trace charm he also placed on her, but he isn't the one handcuffing her to things, assuming he basically owns her, and never telling her anything. In this book Cassie mentions she's known Pritkin a month, and is upset he didn't tell her about the rumors about her father (which he thought she already knew about), but she already knows deeply personal information about his true identity and his past with his wife. Whereas she is "dating" Mircea, and has known him since she was 11 (admittedly with a big break in there), but he still (up to book 6) hasn't told her he has a daughter? Anyway, enough ranting.I forgot this was the book with the Cassie/Pritkin body swap, I loved those scenes, lol.
I'll be starting this in the next few days hopefully, but agree that the body swap scene is one of the funniest things I've ever read. I literally laugh out loud every time I read it!You're stirring up controversy with the Missies here, Lindsey!! ;)
One thing I've noticed in my reread is how sure Cassie feels about Mircea sometimes, and it kinda bugs me. She'll say something like "I know Mircea wouldn't do this" or "In all the time I've known Mircea he never did that". You get a false perception of time when reading, because it feels like the story covers a much longer period, but how well *does* Cassie know Mircea? She knew him for a year when she was a child, and she's only known him as an adult for the same length of time she's known Pritkin. I get that Mircea probably spent a great deal of time with Cassie during his year at Tony's, but I doubt she was exposed to the Senate's greatest liar/manipulator personna much, and even if she was, would an eleven year old be able to spot the lies and manipulations? It annoys me a little that Cassie feels she knows Mircea so well when, really, she doesn't. People behave differently towards children than they do towards adults.
Lannister wrote: "I'll be starting this in the next few days hopefully, but agree that the body swap scene is one of the funniest things I've ever read. I literally laugh out loud every time I read it!You're stirring up controversy with the Missies here, Lindsey!! ;) ..."
I know, sorry to all the Mircea fans, just my opinion, I may be biased. ;)
I agree that Cassie really does not know Mircea well, definitely how he interacted with an 11-year old Cassie is vastly different than as an adult. I get the impression that much of what Cassie does feel for Mircea is a combination of lust (though I can't blame her for that) and this feeling of comfort because of her childhood infatuation with him and the year he spent with her when she was 11. I can see how there would be a comfort and trust stemming from that, knowing someone much older and wiser when you were a child who was kind to you and seemed strong and protective. But as you said, she would not have been exposed to all the different aspects of his character at that age, or had the maturity to recognize and understand them either.
Mostly I'm just a sap and prefer book relationships to develop in a more natural and organic way and take their time (not a PNR fan). So I love reading the way things are developing with Cassie and Pritkin, where they are becoming friends first (aside from the occasional sexiness when Pritkin needs to use his incubus powers to heal, lol).
Lindsey wrote: "I get the impression that much of what Cassie does feel for Mircea is a combination of lust (though I can't blame her for that) and this feeling of comfort because of her childhood infatuation with him and the year he spent with her when she was 11."Yes, this is how I see it too. Mircea represented security to Cassie when she was a child. He was kind and caring towards her, and she knew that he protected her from the worst of Tony's excesses. Then she met him as a grown-up and her hormones kicked in, and those feelings of childhood affection morphed into adult horniness. And then the geis happened and it all got hideously complicated...
Cassie & Pritkin's relationship does feel far more natural, and yet in many ways it does follow the plot of a classic romance novel (so far, anyway). Couple meets and hates each other on sight. They're thrown into a situation together and gradually feelings change from dislike, to respect, to fondness, to love, to HEA. Is that what we're going to get here, or will KC throw a giant spanner in the works somewhere?
I do prefer Mircea as a character over Pritkin (but not as a love interest). I know I've said it before, but I love what KC has done with him. I don't want perfect characters who do no wrong, because that's a little bit boring. I want characters who make me adore them yet occasionally want to strangle them too (just like my family hahaha!!)
Lindsey wrote: "I forgot this was the book with the Cassie/Pritkin body swap, I loved those scenes, lol. ""And lightly chilled is usually sufficient. I'd rather you didn't scald me with cold." I'm typing from memory but that scene in particular stands out as freaking hilarious.
Also I agree with literally everything you said, my feelings are the same XD
Lannister wrote: "I want characters who make me adore them yet occasionally want to strangle them too"
Mircea makes me want to strangle him all the time in the Cassie series XD I only truly like him in the Dory series, and there he's wonderful.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; I much prefer Mircea as a father than a lover. Unless it's in Masks and he's not so smug and confident with experience, then we're cool, he can do sexy stuff. I'm pretty sure if he popped up in the Dory series doing something naughty with anyone else (Snakey??) I'd be like 'eeeeeeew DAD put your shirt back on OH GOD COVER YOURSELF WHERE ARE YOUR ARMANI TROUSERS?!'
Lannister wrote: "Cassie & Pritkin's relationship does feel far more natural, and yet in many ways it does follow the plot of a classic romance novel"
In a way it does follow that formula, and yet I can't find a single other romance novel that has done it better. For me, they break the mould a little. I've always loved that Pritkin isn't conventionally attractive, (how often do you get that?) that line about writing a ten-page paper on how his features differ from the normal standards of beauty SLAYS my heart every time. Also in a lot of romance novels, correct me if you've all read something different (AND RECOMMEND ME THOSE BOOKS BECAUSE I LOVE THIS) but they rarely start off as friends first (or second). I'm thinking rather sadly of Curran and Kate and they kind of went straight from the 'I hate you' to the jumping in bed together, no actual friendship in between. With Cassie and Pritkin you get these... lovely in-the-eye-of-the-storm type scenes where they comfort each other before and after chapters of the book where there's total chaos. Like in Curse the Dawn where Cassie just finds out about her dad and Pritkin goes to listen to her talk through it, or in HTM on the balcony again you get this super cute emotional comfort and my heart is just swept away once more because I've simply never read this kind of relationship in any kind of book before. I could go on more but I don't want to make the Missies start gagging XD! Sorry guys, emotions ran away with me (and I've just checked the clock, 4am dear god this is what I get for sleeping all day yesterday).
Duca wrote: "And lightly chilled is usually sufficient. I'd rather you didn't scald me with cold." I'm typing from memory but that scene in particular stands out as freaking hilarious. Also I agree with literally everything you said, my feelings are the same XD...
I've always loved that Pritkin isn't conventionally attractive, (how often do you get that?) that line about writing a ten-page paper on how his features differ from the normal standards of beauty SLAYS my heart every time... "
Yes we are definitely on the same page, that was a great scene (during the body swap), I really was laughing out loud when I read it again. :) Sounds like we love all the same scenes in these books too, I did love when she said that about Pritkin's appearance, because he's beautiful to her. :) And she says so multiple times in Hunt the Moon. Ok, back to my re-read! I should definitely be finished with all of them before RTW arrives, I'm getting antsy now that it's so close.
I find it amusing that many Pritkin fans gloss over the fact that Cassie admits he's not uber attractive!! ;) I think it says a lot that Pritkin's looks have become more appealing to Cassie as the series progresses, because so long as a couple find each other attractive, who cares what the world thinks?But onto the re-read ... I have managed one whole chapter so far. Does anyone think we'll see The Guild again, or were they only mentioned as a method of introducing Cassie's father? I still find it incredibly odd that he associated himself with asshats like them. Does anyone have any ideas about this?
And then there's the whole weird thing with the timeline around Roger Palmer. When Agnes takes Roger prisoner in the Houses of Parliament scene, she tells Cassie her heir has already run off, taking the pentagram ward with her. Artemis, however, says she first met Roger when Agnes took him prisoner and she visited him in his cell. But how can she do that if she's already run off? Also, when Cassie & Mircea travel back to the Pythia's party in HtM (when she wants to simply see her mother) Roger recognises Cassie and freaks, so this is (presumably) after the parliament scene, yet Artemis is still the heir and hasn't run off yet.
Possibly the simplest explanation is that Artemis simply lied to Cassie about visiting Roger Palmer while he was a prisoner (though why she would lie about this, I don't know). And maybe Cassie will visit her parents again in the past, somewhere between the parliament scene and the Pythia party where Roger & Artemis run off together, and this is why he recognises her. Or maybe time gets changed for some reason? I dunno, but my head starts to hurt when I think about it!! Does anyone else have any theories on what's going on here, or does this discrepancy get explained in TtS and I've forgotten?
Sorry, Lannister. I can't help with the timeline. My tendency is not to think too deeply about it, and not to worry about it.
KC is getting paid for writing about the timeline and keeping it straight, but I just want to read about a different world and not worry about the details.
Honestly, the depth of your knowledge and the way you generously share your insights is a wonder to me. I am grateful for the work you do as moderator, and I look forward to your comments on RtW!
I know that KC kept Augusta alive, because she is an interesting character. I know it isn't likely, but do you think we will see Auria from Masks again? I thought she was interesting and could have or should have been further developed.
KC is getting paid for writing about the timeline and keeping it straight, but I just want to read about a different world and not worry about the details.
Honestly, the depth of your knowledge and the way you generously share your insights is a wonder to me. I am grateful for the work you do as moderator, and I look forward to your comments on RtW!
I know that KC kept Augusta alive, because she is an interesting character. I know it isn't likely, but do you think we will see Auria from Masks again? I thought she was interesting and could have or should have been further developed.
Aw, thank you, Nancy. That's very sweet of you. I can't really take full credit for any insights though. Many of them are down to the group's hive mind working together, and long may that continue!I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Masks characters pop up again, and Auria is as good a candidate as any. Maybe she'll pop up in a Dory book as Anthony's latest bit of totty one of these days! If I'm remembering correctly, she was going to live in Paris at the end of Masks (is that right?) She's maybe very friendly with some members of the European Senate. Hmmmm, maybe she had a fling with LC? That would be interesting! :P
Yes, I think she became prominent in Paris with her salon/high-class brothel. Definitely Anthony's type! (And maybe yes wth LC!)
It's only 23 days until release day! Isn't that great?!?
It's only 23 days until release day! Isn't that great?!?
I know! Three weeks tomorrow. I wrote that it was two & a bit weeks in another comment because apparently I can't count to three LMAO. I'll put it down to excitement. Also insanity. :PI feel like we should be doing some sort of countdown thing till release day, but I can't think of anything. If anyone's got any ideas, please share.
On Auria, I feel like she was being set up to possibly appear again, what with her being established in Paris. Masks came out after TtS, right? So this is the first published novel since then where KC has the opportunity to re-use characters. We did see Jerome very briefly in Death's Mistress and he's a senator now, so that's another tie to the Euro Senate. Damn, we should've included Masks in the re-read! Maybe early next year, once the RtW chat has died down a little, we could schedule a group re-read of Masks. It's always fun to revisit old books after the new ones come out to search for hints and foreshadowing. Would anyone be interested a Masks group read in a few months time?
@Lannister Another oddity about Roger is that when A and C caught him, and C asked how he planned to get back to the present, he said he meant to stay *stay* in the past.How do we know that the Guild actually put him there? What if Artemis took him there?
I have wondered if the incident was part of some scheme of hers/theirs.
A countdown of favorite quotes or a countdown of foreshadowing quotes or 'situations'.
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
Nancy wrote: "A countdown of favorite quotes or a countdown of foreshadowing quotes or 'situations'.Just a suggestion."
Favorite quotes could be fun, I second that ;)
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I like Mircea for a lot of reasons, but in reality, I'm a lot like Cassie and I HATE HATE HATE people telling me what to do. I couldn't put up with Mircea. Actually Pritkin would drive me insane, too I think. Even he's bossy.