TV: The Walking Dead & Fear the Walking Dead [TWD Universe]

[Marla]

Welcome HereKittyKitty. (I've gotta ask do you like cats? Cuz all I can think of is the first time Kate Daniels meets Curran in Magic Bites)

So you probably liked King Ezekiel's pet.

We don't discuss much of Fear here, but if you want to rant or rave about previous TWD seasons, I'm sure Steph and I can be forced to listen and opine (I've always wanted to use that word).

I think TWD has just been on for so long that they had to move on from survival and zombie shock to civilization. I've been getting bored with it and then BAM they have an excellent episode.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

Me too :)

I liked the last episode of Fear, aside from the (view spoiler)[ why are they drawn to that specific spot on the bridge? frustration. Was it for any reason other than they needed walkers to fall into the water and wash up on John's beach? (hide spoiler)] It was one of the better of either show, IMO.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Marla wrote: "Welcome HereKittyKitty. (I've gotta ask do you like cats? Cuz all I can think of is the first time Kate Daniels meets Curran in Magic Bites)

So you probably liked King Ezekiel's pet.
..."

Hi Marla. Please don't start me on my fav topic of Felines! Yes I love me a kitty, small or large It don't matter. Maybe one day I'll be lucky (and rich!) enough to see the larger varieties in their natural environment? I'm saving Kate Daniels until after 28th August, and then I'll devour the whole series in a binge... same as October Daye when that's complete as I've been told by a couple of parties that Tybalt may win over Curran?... I'll step away here in just in case I've caused a mini riot lol!

Shiva, my Shiva. Yes I loved her! Needless to say, even though I knew it was coming, my heart bled at the same time as my eyes shed tears. I felt sad for me at her loss but I also felt so bad for My King Ezekiel too.

Yes, I feel you about the wanting to rant. I have done loads but I get fed up with doing it. I just want to love the show again like I did before TPTB started messing with my beloved's. They made me fall in love with Rick, Michonne, Carl, Morgan, Maggie, Glenn, Aaron and many others and now they have them (view spoiler)[(those left anyway) (hide spoiler)] acting irresponsibly, ignoring them and sacrificing their characters for the sake of a penis-obsessed narcissistic, tyrannical man-child who has far overstayed his welcome. Oh and that woman who restyled herself and her language for the apocalypse and then back again. Really? Welcome also overstayed.

But TBH, the absolute worst part of it all for me is all the semi-incoherent nonsense that is spouted in various interviews by various behind the scenes staff to justify the bad directions they have taken the story to.

Ok rant over lol!

[Marla]

Lol...yup obviously a feline fanatic ;D

My hubby and I joke that whenever someone starts getting soft, they are going to get killed off, but I guess most of them are not in jeopardy because everyone is acting very aggressively crazy. Hubby loved Morgan and is bummed that he took off.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

They're always talking about those who become the group's "mortal compass" is in risk of dying next. Seems to be true, so far.

Has he watched Morgan since crossing to Fear, Marla?

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Marla wrote: "Lol...yup obviously a feline fanatic ;D ..."

I wear that moniker with pride Marla! :-) Despite the majority of the rest of the world ridiculing me.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

This crossed my news feed yesterday: Gamespot reports "The Walking Dead's Andrew Lincoln Leaving After Season 9"

I did a quick Google search to see who else was reporting and seems word has spread.

~ Hollywood Reporter: 'Walking Dead': Andrew Lincoln to Exit as Norman Reedus Eyes $20M-Plus New Deal

~ HuffPo: 'Walking Dead’ Star Andrew Lincoln Is Reportedly Leaving The Series

~ US Weekly: Andrew Lincoln Leaving ‘The Walking Dead’ After Season 9, Norman Reedus Negotiated $20 Million to Stay

I'm kinda surprised he's stayed this long, but he's been a fan favorite, and it's been steady $, so ... wonder what's got him leaving now. Either way, looks like Norman Reedus is making out nicely.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Hi Steph. Long ranty post again I'm afraid.

Yeah, I read about it too. Even though it's a HUGE loss to his colleagues and underappreciated fans, I don't blame him given the direction that the show has taken since season 6. The people up above have really messed up big time but I also think that him leaving is exactly what they wanted. They have after all been pushing the whole (view spoiler)["Rick is just the same as Negan" line for ages now, and giving out "DD for leader" vibes for a while, and what with the whole lets redeem Negan s*** that's going on right now... (hide spoiler)] well they clearly no longer want Andy in the top spot.

TBH I'm quite glad that he has finally decided to bow out, I wish him well and hope that he can now focus on what he wants to, and maybe if that is still TV, be scouted by people much more deserving of his talent and grace. Once he's done, it means that I can bow out too.

Don't know if anyone here is aware that (view spoiler)[Lauren Cohan has got co-lead in a new show 'Whiskey Cavalier' and has only been contracted to appear in 6 eps of season 9 too (the talk of the pilot of the show came out months ago at the same time that talk of her contract renewal negotiations started ie money they didn't want to pay her and since then the show has been given the go ahead to shoot a full season (hide spoiler)]and I doubt very much that since her superwomanhood has been blown up (if people don't know exactly what she has been doing, google it) that Danai Gurira will stay now either, especially since they have given chosen to virtually ignore the power of Danai as well as Michonne rather than elevate her status in the narrative other than show her as the 'love interest' in the last two seasons. I'm not going to bother with how much that is a problem for much more than the storyline of TWD. They should be clamoring to keep hold of her. I bet they won't. And I'm glad too. So I'll eat my hat if season 9 ends with (view spoiler)[both of these ladies still on board. I also think that Ezekiel and Fr Gabe are done for too in season 9. (hide spoiler)]

Personally I think that despite the declining numbers for seasons now, this really is the icing on the cake. NR may have his "we will riot" fans but where are they and is there enough of them to keep TWD going based on him in the lead? They really think that he can hold up everyone else on the show? Humm...

Like I said before, bring on the Daryl and Negan Show, with some Carol thrown in as a bonus.

[Marla]

I liked Michonne before she got together with Rick, not that I don't think they are good together, but she just is more awesome when she is wielding her katana than when she is peace keeping. I have been tired of Rick forever, but since he is the main character in TWD graphic novels, I figured he would be around forever. (view spoiler)[But Carl found out that that means next to nothing. (hide spoiler)]

With Rick planning to leave, I bet TWD writers are sorry that they killed (view spoiler)[Glen and Carl off. (hide spoiler)] I love Daryl, but I don't think that he can carry a show by himself.

(Any more than I think Morgan can carry FTWD, cuz though I haven't seen any but the first episode, it looked like they killed off the cowboy - I really liked him!)

I don't like or trust Neegan, but him turning into a good guy would be interesting. I finally like Fr Gabriel, so they are probably going to kill him off. Though Steph knows how much I was begging for his death early on, I like the new Fr Gabriel.

I think they need to keep Ezekiel and Carol around just so they have a possible romance and some interesting characters. Maggie has turned to the dark side and I see her becoming a cross between crazy Farmer Rick and Neegan. Though my sister just had a point, if someone killed off my husband I would be a little nuts 2 weeks after it happened.

And I like Jesus, so it will be interesting to see what becomes of him. I don't know whether to root for him and Maggie or him and Daryl. LOL, I want Daryl want to find somebody to love.

So some fans might be crushed that Rick is leaving, but (view spoiler)[ I was more upset about Glenn (hide spoiler)] and if they kill off Daryl, I will be done with TWD.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

I like Daryl, but yeah, don't see him carrying the show. I don't know what to think about Neegan yet, other than why the hell didn't someone kill him sooner ... a million wasted opportunities.

Maggie ... I have to keep reminding myself that it's only been two weeks (stupid of the producers/writers to show it that way - making us feel like it was eons between "event" and finale, but whatever)

Rick ... buh-bye. I like him, but damn, I felt like they weren't killing him off b/c of his big part. So, him going might just be the shake up the show needs to get back to being great.

Fear had a great episode one or two back and it's making me realize how insanely frustrating it is when they write shit episodes b/c it's not like they can't.

(view spoiler)[ Marla wrote: "With Rick planning to leave, I bet TWD writers are sorry that they killed [Glen and Carl off. (hide spoiler)] I love Daryl, but I don't think that he can carry a show by himself. "

Oh, I bet they are! If they aren't, they should be! Killing Glenn was the worst/hardest for me to date. Everything else has just been meh, TBH. (hide spoiler)]

[Marla]

Yup, Steph, I totally agree with you!

[Steph, Serious series addict]

:)

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Do you guys read the comics? I don't but I've heard tons about the characterizations and plot lines. It's such a shame that they cherry pick as and when to follow them and when to deviate. This is one of my biggest gripes.

For me, the main problem is that the show changed gears with the introduction of Negan, it was very deliberate and it was in order to set up and follow the comic arc for him rather than Rick. Steph, that's why he hasn't been killed off. The Daryl and Negan show AKA Negan's Redemption has been in the works for years. That's why most of season 7 and the whole of season 8 panned out the way it did.

The show was Rick's story, about him and his son, then with the addition of his adopted family and then his soulmate, and we got to see virtually everything from their POV's. We had a future in this world with (view spoiler)[Carl growing up and being groomed for leadership (hide spoiler)]. But ever since the bat swinging pyscho turned up, TPTB have been gearing towards something different. That's why pregnant Maggie's (view spoiler)[pain at the loss of her husband so brutally (hide spoiler)] was shoved aside for Daryl's agony, Michonne has been virtually ignored (although there are also other reasons for this), Carl seemed to forget the brutality he and others had suffered at the hands of Negan literally just days or weeks before, and Rick turned into someone completely different.

There is no regret in killing (view spoiler)[Glenn or Carl (hide spoiler)] at all, and after AL begged numerous times to save (view spoiler)[Glenn (hide spoiler)] when he found out his fate, (view spoiler)[killing Carl off (hide spoiler)] was a calculated move to push Rick (Andrew) out of his own story so they could turn it into the comedy hour that is to come. Andrew was never going to stay after that move, neither will Danai (view spoiler)[(who was devastated at Chandler/Carl's loss due to her close relationship with him both on and off screen (hide spoiler)]) and (view spoiler)[Lauren (hide spoiler)] is already on her way out.

Marla, you don't need to worry about Daryl, he is the one original character remaining created by AMC, not Robert Kirkman, he's their cash cow. NR can't act very well, and he like Steph says, can't carry this whole show like AL has done, but that doesn't really matter as he makes them millions they get to keep in house. Personally, I would feel nothing but relief if he were to be killed off as some of the other characters would get more of the chance to shine that they deserve.

I have to say that Fr Gabriel more than proved his worth way back in season 6. He has until recently had IMO one of the best character arcs on the show, that was until they decided to dis-empower him in season 8. I do agree that keeping Ezekiel and Carol around is a must though, but I predict that Ezekiel will be a goner before the end of season 9 so they can leave his "kingdom" in Carol's hands. I also think she needs a dramatic personality makeover to be worthy of him and that AMC got lucky with Melissa and Khary with the chemistry they have together.

Once Rick, or more to the point Andrew Lincoln is gone, I will be gone. As will many more fans that have hung on this long. He is THE anchor of the show both on and off screen, lauded by almost every single person on the cast to date, and with the loss of (view spoiler)[both him and Carl, their story (hide spoiler)], the death of the show will follow.

[Marla]

I've read TWD graphic novels up to the point where Rick sees the prison. But I didn't want to get ahead of the TV series, so I had purposely not read more, but since the series has moved on, I can probably read more of the graphic novels.

I was surprised when the plot lines diverged between the TV series and graphic novels. Like Glenn originally stays with Maggie on the farm, then they meet up with the gang later. (view spoiler)[Supposedly Glenn survived past his graphic novel demise. But Carl still lives on in the comics, so that was a real shock. (hide spoiler)]

HereKittyKitty, you are much more cerebral about your analysis of TWD characters and episodes, sorry, I just call it the way I see it. And often my heart overrides what I know should happen.

So besides, Rick, who are your favorite characters on TWD?

TWD is in trouble. I think the show can survive the loss of Rick Grimes, but Andrew Lincoln is irreplaceable and he's the face of TWD.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Marla, you have LOADS more to read before you catch up on the show!

TBH I have never connected to a TV show and it's characters as much as TWD before, no idea why (I feel a bit weird about it actually!) and that is what drives my analysis of it. Despite you thinking I'm cerebral about it, my views actually do come from my heart. I fell in love with certain characters and that they are being messed with right now hurts me! Especially for the sake of Negan who I absolutely hate with all my being. What he represents... it's too close to real life and feeds too much into overgrown boy fantasies for my liking.

On the plus side, my favs list is long and still includes some of the dear departed... but apart from Rick (in no particular order)...

Carl
Michonne
Tyreese
Fr Gabe
Glenn
Maggie
Aaron (one of the best gay reps on TV IMO)
Ezekiel
Shane (yes!)
Hershel season 3 onwards

I know some people enjoy a good villan, but not this girl. I have a very healthy respect for the morally ambiguous anti-hero, but not a right out baddie! (well apart from Damon Salvatore...but that's another story for another time!)

TBH, I am a tad disappointed that not more of the women are favorites of mine, but this is another area I think the writers fall down, by making most of the women unlikeable for various reasons.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

I've never read the graphic novels. I did know that Daryl's character wasn't in them though and that (view spoiler)[ Carl is still alive in them (hide spoiler)]. I probably won't read them at this point, but ya never know.

My love for some characters hasn't faded as much as my opinion of TPTB has dropped dramatically over the years. What started out as a must-watch, can't even wait for the DVR to get 5 minutes ahead of airtime has become a frustration more than a joy to watch. I find I'm hollering at the screen what feels like 90% of the time. So much of what I loved about the earlier seasons has been lost.

TBH, whether he deserves my frustration or not, every time I see Gimpel on The Talking Dead I wanna smack that smirk off his face.

I'll probably keep watching until the show dies (my OCDemoness will probably demand I see how it ends), but a lot needs to change for me to fall back in love with it.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Steph wrote: "TBH, whether he deserves my frustration or not, every time I see Gimpel on The Talking Dead I wanna smack that smirk off his face. "

I'll fight ya to get at him! Actually, no I'll smack Robert Kirkwad first, then Simple second! hahaha

[Sarah]

Hello!!!

I'm just going to cut in :) I completely agree that the show can afford to lose Rick Grimes, but not Andrew Garfield. And with the mass purging of cast, I'm worried the story will veer off and become something that is grasping at straws to maintain part of the magic from the first few seasons.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

LOL Herekittykitty :)

Hi Sarah! Andrew Garfield? Spider-Man in the apocalypse? ;)

[Sarah]

Awk oh noooooooooo

[Steph, Serious series addict]

😜

[Marla]

Steph, play nicely, don't scare off the other people. ;D

Sarah, she's just teasing, she knows who you mean! And feel free to jump in with a comment anytime as we rant, Or rant away too...

Herekittykitty, I agree with most of your list, but I was never a fan of Shane, though at times, I liked him better than Rick. I miss Tyreese!! And I actually like Jerry more than Ezekiel. As for the women of TWD, I liked Andrea at the beginning until she met the Governor, Michonne when she's not domesticated and Carol when she's being sneaky. Though I was never a big fan of Lori, Maggie, Beth or now Jadis.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

😈

Ohhhh, okay. 😛

Ick. Shane. Bleh! Him and wifey, I was glad to see them go.

I 💗 Jerry!

Andrea rocked! until she didn't. And boy did she die in the most ignorant, TSTL way! She deserved her death.

Feel the same about Michonne and Carol 😁

[Marla]

LOL Steph, you are harsher on Andrea than I am, and I thought she got what she was looking for. Count on you to call it how I see it.

I swear except for (view spoiler)[ Carl & Abraham (hide spoiler)], you can predict people's deaths on TWD. When they start going all preachy and soft, flat out crazy, fall in love or just a change in their attitude, they are going to bite it. (view spoiler)[ They had to get us adjusted to Glen's death by killing him twice before his actual death. (hide spoiler)] Morgan was kind of flaking out before he went on his walkabout.

I'm brainstorming what kind of death Rick will have. I predict a self-sacrificing death to save the community. Maybe staying behind to fight off a herd of walkers while the others escape or something. Maybe throw himself on a grenade. Maybe saving Neegan's life....ooooo, that would be a good twist. The most unexpected would be for him to just vanish like Morgan. Has Andrew Lincoln said why he's leaving? 9 years is enough, stories are stalling, Chandler getting axed, leaving on his own terms?!?

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Marla, Andrew is far too classy a dude to come right out and tell exactly why he is leaving, but his family will be a big part of it after all this time as well as the shit the show has become.

I have thoughts on both Shane and Andrea... will save for next time...

[Steph, Serious series addict]

LOL! ;)

That's definitely a good predictor of who's next to go - or seems to be.

I'm curious how Rick will end/leave too. Are you watching Fear? (view spoiler)[Madison did that --- lured walkers away so family could escape. Although, she could've gotten away too, had she even tried. But, no they wanted to give her the noble death. Whatever. I didn't have any strong feelings about her either way. (hide spoiler)]

I'd imagine Andrew's decision must have been impacted at least a little by the way the show has dropped over the years.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

Some add'l news:

TV Guide: The Walking Dead Showrunner Confirms Season 9 Time Jump
TVLine: Jon Bernthal Sets Walking Dead Return

[Marla]

Thanks for the info, Steph, but it's your fault that I spent the last 2 hours reading about What Did Jenny Die of in Forrest Gump, What the Olsen Twins are Doing Now, Real Life Partners of Big Bang Theory...you get the gist...lol, it just sucked me right in.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

LOL! Jenny had HIV or AIDS, right?

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Marla wrote: "Thanks for the info, Steph, but it's your fault that I spend the last 2 hours reading about What Did Jenny Die of in Forrest Gump, What the Olsen Twins are Doing Now, Real Life Partners of Big Bang..."

Fricking hilarious because I know EXACTLY what you mean! Once you read one of those 'articles' you see another one that triggers your interest... then another... then another... and before you know it dinner time has come and gone and your stomach is growling at you...

And Steph, you are right about that.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Now. Onto my thoughts about Shane. Beware, it's a long one again hidden in tags.

(view spoiler)[Shane LOVED his "brother" Rick and only initially decided to take Lori and Carl to safety because he knew that's what Rick would have wanted. Then, of course, things happened, maybe very early after they both thought Rick was dead, but in times of adversity, our humanity does things to us. The one thing I hated about that situation was the slut shaming that was aimed at Lori. I hated her with all my being, but not for that. Slut-shaming pissed me off for reasons I shouldn't have to spell out.

It wasn't Rick's return that messed Shane up, it was Lori's reaction to it and her manipulation of them both and her withdrawing Shane's access to Carl that turned him I think. Yes, he was pretty single-minded that he only really wanted to take care of his own, and he was brutal about it far sooner than anyone else, but you have to remember that Shane was best buds with Rick since at least high school and was probably an unofficial part of the Grimes's family and had known Carl and loved him since he was born.

Although I obviously could see him turning mad, I actually really felt bad for Shane. Also, the guilt of sacrificing that big guy to save Carl's life in season two ate at him, to me that was pretty obvious and so many people don't see it or just ignore it.

The strength of their relationship, despite what it later on became, was spelled out to me so much early in season two, when once they got to the farm with Carl, at one point Shane took Rock's face in his hands and tried to clean the blood off him. He took care of him just like one would a family member or other loved one. Such an intimate act for one alpha male to do to another.

Ultimately, I think Lori is what destroyed Shane rather than the jealousy of Rick reclaiming his family. (hide spoiler)]

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

And Andrea. Poor deluded and slightly narcissistic Andrea. Beware, it's another long one again hidden in tags.

(view spoiler)[At one point she was the only female character I liked. Although she was ridiculously aggressive to Rick when Glenn first saved him and brought him to meet the Atlanta lot, and was messed up over the loss of her sister at the camp she grew on me, wanting to learn how to protect herself and others just she should have been. It killed me to see all the other women carrying out the "female" duties like they weren't in the middle of a war against the undead! At that point, none of them had any particular skills and were heavily reliant on the men for protection, even those men that didn't have any particular skills themselves at the time. Pathetic, even in such early days.

She didn't use her lawyer skills to communicate effectively and that's why she came across the way she did but she was a woman who saw the value in survival skills. I hated what she did with Beth, but understood her reasons for it, given her own state of mind after she lost her sister.

When Michonne saved her and they took up together I was really glad she'd found a likeminded female to bond with. But when they got captured and taken to Woodberry, at that point she was obviously tired of just being on the road and craved security, so was easily seduced by the promise of all of that plus someone to be close to and that's why she fell into the trap. I hated that she chose not to go with Michonne when she left, but again I totally understood where she was coming from. Despite the obvious connection between them, if I was her (and as blind as she was) I probably would have done the same thing.

And at that point, she had made herself believe that she was almost invincible and ready to help lead the community she found herself in, who had nursed her back to health after all. She was blind to the madness that was obvious in the guvnor, and once the blinkers were taken off just wasn't able to take him out.

I actually like when characters fail like this because it's real and honest, and that's what I appreciated so much about Andrea. But I was frustrated because she clearly had become more than capable at that point, and so for her arc to end the way it did was shite to me. Some of the decisions the writers had her make towards the end were just plain ridiculous.

Lastly, unlike many (most?) others, I think that the show certainly could have accommodated Michonne and Andrea together in future seasons without compromising what was great about either of them. At the same time, I think I may be the only person who actually thought Shane and Andrea would have made a strong couple if they had done what they discussed back at the farm, and it totally made sense to me that they ended up having a leg shaking experience when caught in the adrenaline throes of zombie killing! (hide spoiler)]

[Marla]

Steph wrote: "LOL! Jenny had HIV or AIDS, right?"

Actually, in the book Jenny had HIV/AIDS, but in the movie she died of Hep C. So all those hours weren't a total waste, I learned something. ;D

I'm pressed for time, so I will have to read your Shane and Andrea thoughts later.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Marla wrote: "Steph wrote: "LOL! Jenny had HIV or AIDS, right?"

Actually, in the book Jenny had HIV/AIDS, but in the movie she died of Hep C. So all those hours weren't a total waste, I learned something. ;D

I..."

Whoops! And here I was sure I was right... about the movie as I've never read the book... didn't know there was one! Thanks for letting me in on that Marla :)

[Marla]

LOL actually I was reading the slideshow and somehow got kicked out, so rather than start from slide 1, I googled it and found the information in seconds rather than tens of minutes later. So that was how I broke out of my time suck.

I didn't know Forrest Gump was a novel, but it is now added to my too-long-to-be-practical tbr list.

@Steph ~ you cannot stop watching TWD because we've been discussing it since 2013 together and HereKittyKitty is bailing when Andrew Lincoln leaves. I'll be sitting here ranting to myself.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Marla... I'll still happily rant with you hahaha!

[hIpnoticraQs]

Ditto

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Herekittykitty wrote: "Marla... I'll still happily rant with you hahaha!"

Besides, I'm still in whilst Michonne is still in... which hopefully won't be for long. I just don't want to be insulted by the "Daryl and Negan Hour" that it's going to become.

[Marla]

Awww, thanks for the love! But Steph, you still can't bail!

Sorry, packing for home and still moving my dad, so I'll catch you next week when I'm back to my real world. Then I'll have time to read and comment on your rants, HelloKittyKitty.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

LOL! Nah, I can’t quit now. I’ve invested too much to drop it at this point. I’ll be bitchin’ and moanin’, I’m sure, but watching till it’s over or canceled.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

Y'all watching Fear?

Are Morgan and Fear the Walking Dead Heading Back to The Walking Dead?

[Steph, Serious series addict]

Talk about the crossover potentials ~ The Walking Dead season 9's new teaser trailer hints at Rick / Maggie clash and who'll be wielding Lucille

[Marla]

Okay, sorry, I ended up rushing back to Hawaii in June when my sister's radiation was making her sick. She did great on chemo but radiation was bad...go figure.

So I've been back and gotten my kiddo back to college...so now I'm ready for Walking Dead...Fear...nah, I just watched the first one when Morgan crossed over. It would be brilliant if Morgan brought new friends to TWD since Rick and Maggie are both leaving. (view spoiler)[Can we bring Glenn back...please?! Sigh, I know it's not possible, but drat... (hide spoiler)]

Are you watching Fear?

Thanks for the articles. You keep me informed ;D

[Marla]

@kittykat ~ I finally got around to reading your posts about Shane and Andrea. Though I may not agree with you, I really appreciated your point of view. It was nice to hear a clear explanation of a different side of things.

Shane ~ (view spoiler)[ I think Shane was wanting Lori even before the zombie apocalypse. Before Rick got shot he was having problems with Lori and Shane told him he was a lucky man or he wished he had her or something. I'm glad that Shane saved Lori and Carl, but I think he was super pissed that Rick came back and Lori went back to Rick. I think Shane expected Lori to choose him since she and Rick were having problems before and was frustrated that Rick actually found them in a nomadic band.

I did think people trashing on Lori sleeping with Shane was mean since she thought Rick was dead. But did Shane tell her Rick was dead so she wouldn't feel like they needed to rescue him or to get Lori. You assume all his motives were pure and I guess I thought the worst of him. (hide spoiler)]

Andrea ~ (view spoiler)[ I understand Andrea and Michonne wanting safety and stability, but it's almost denial of the zombie apocalypse. Yeah, I think Andrea and Shane would've made a good couple, but Shane liked the helpless dark-haired Lori, so the competent blonde Andrea wasn't really his type.

Andrea quieting her sister is still one of my favorite scenes in TWD. My husband said, no worries, he'd put me down in a heartbeat if I got bitten or turned. Gee, thanks hon.

And Andrea's death is one of the most frustrating of the series. She truly deserved to go down fighting or self-sacrificing. (hide spoiler)]

[Steph, Serious series addict]

Hey Ladies! So, how's everyone feeling about the show now that (view spoiler)[Rick is missing/gone/not dead (hide spoiler)] and (view spoiler)[we are in a 6 year timeline jump (hide spoiler)]?

[Marla]

Meh. Hubby is losing interest. (view spoiler)[ I was surprised that Rick is not dead. Nice twist. I wonder if Morgan and company are still going to reappear and merge into TWD. And aren't they going to kill Maggie off at at the end of this season? (hide spoiler)]

What do you think?

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Hey ladies, long time no speak!

(view spoiler)[I LOVE THAT MICHONNE HAD A BABY! (hide spoiler)]

Other than that, I'm feeling mixed about it all TBH. Whilst I love that there is going to be (view spoiler)[Rick movies, I'm conflicted about him being gone from his family as I just can't believe that he would stay away for that long by choice. (hide spoiler)] I also think that the way (view spoiler)[Maggie just disappeared off screen, with such a small amount of discussion was shitty. I know it's open for her to come back, (I don't think they are going to kill her off) (hide spoiler)] but shitty none the less.

I don't know what they were thinking about that witchy monstrosity on top of Carol's head, while Dirtl is still the same greasy headed (fake) brunette fool he was before the two time jumps... remember it's been 7.5 - 8 years since the end of season 8! I hate that they (view spoiler)[killed off Jesus, (hide spoiler)] but based on the fact that he had no character growth until the last few episodes, it's not a huge loss.

I don't know how they can now bring Morgan and his Fear buddies into the picture here, given that there has been such a long time gone by and we haven't seen them yet.

My biggest question will remain (until it's satisfactorily answered on screen!) WHY WON'T THEY DEVIATE FROM THE COMICS BY KILLING NEGAN? The things that they had him say to Maggie about Glenn were... I can't find the words. That honestly disturbed me.

However, on the plus side, it hasn't turned into the Dirtl and Negan (with Carol) comedy hour as I had thought... yet. I'm really glad they finally pulled their heads out of their assess and gave Michonne a much more central part to the narrative.

[Steph, Serious series addict]

It's been a while since we've actually enjoyed the show. So sad.

Rick: (view spoiler)[I was conflicted with how they handled his departure. On one hand, I guess it was nice that he didn't get killed off. But, on the other, they built it up like it was "RICK'S FINAL EPISODES", which it's not with those upcoming mini-movies or whatever.

I wonder if he just wanted to be back in the UK and they're filming those movies there vs the US. Guess I'll hold off judging until I've seen one of them.

Daryl was so pissed at Rick at the end, so I'm kinda surprised he's been roughing it looking for him/his body. But, they were all together since the beginning so it's kinda sweet. (hide spoiler)]

Michonne: (view spoiler)[ Initially, we'd wondered if the baby boy was a hallucination because he and Judith were never seen together. Then, someone mentioned her son in the fall finale. So, guess he's real. ;)

What's up with her anyway? She was working on that charter for all three communities and now she's anti everyone? Guess that'll be something they delve more into later? Or is it all over Daryl and Maggie going against Rick and then Rick "dying"? Ugh. (hide spoiler)]

Walkers:(view spoiler)[ Those Whisperers were freaky AF! At least they were when they were mumbling while Rosita and Mullet were hiding. Creepy! Knowing they are actually wearing walker faces just makes them a bit similar to the others who wear guts or gore to blend in to a herd. (We haven't read the comics, so we'd only expected something b/c Talking Dead always mentioned the Whisperers.) (hide spoiler)]

Negan: (view spoiler)[It's ridiculous that he's still alive. Period. There were too many blown chances to kill him. Then, he's kept alive b/c of Carl? Please. Now he's loose again. We'll see what chaos he'll cause. (hide spoiler)].

Hilltop Peeps: (view spoiler)[ They blew it with Jesus' character, IMO. They could've made his a more well-rounded character and didn't. I wasn't surprised to see him get killed in the fall finale though b/c of the "you really should be staying at Hilltop now" speech he got before leaving.

I cannot stand Tara, so I'm hoping she's the next to go. Instead she's now in charge of Hilltop, I guess. Ick.

Maggie is with that chick that gave them all the How-to books, yeah? That was TPTB's way of working her off the show but leaving an opening for her to return. Boo Hiss. (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I'm disappointed with how the writing has deteriorated in the past several seasons. I do think this new lady in charge is doing a better job than Gimple.

[kittykat AKA Ms. Tortitude]

Rick - Just like I (still!) blame Dirtl (view spoiler)[for Glenn's death, I also blame him for Rick's 'death'. (hide spoiler)] Don't care about the arguments, his actions directly lead to both tragedies happening. He feels guilty, that's why he's even dirtier now and on a neverending quest (view spoiler)[to find Rock's body. (hide spoiler)] Oooh, can you feel the petty dripping off me lol! Also, and this is a huge issue for me, (view spoiler)[I hope that they don't try pairing Rick off with that skanky 'Judis' in his thrillogy of movies. (hide spoiler)] I will riot then!

Michonne - Yeah, despite all the foreshadowing in previous episodes, it was odd the way they did that. I think it may have been one of the many 'artsy' ways they tried but failed at shooting. And I totally am with you on the (view spoiler)[animosity issue between them all. I think it's down to whatever happened in the time jump, as well as her and Rick keeping Negan alive. (hide spoiler)] This is one reason why I tend to dislike time jumps unless they're uneventful times. Whatever went on during that period was bloody awful and I would like to know now, not at some undetermined time in the future.

Negan - (view spoiler)[I hate hate hate so much that he is now free to create more fricking hell for them all. Or even worse, prove himself redeemed (as if) by killing a few of the whisperers. (hide spoiler)] JUST KILL HIM OFF ALREADY!

Hilltop - I think spending so much time (view spoiler)[with Jesus over the last couple of episodes should have clued us in. (hide spoiler)] I don't mind Tara. One thing I have always liked is that they include different personalities in the communities. She's not a fav, but I can tolerate her quirks.

I also think that for a major player who has been with the cast from the beginning, albeit not the first 6 episodes; season 1 was only 6 episodes, Lauren Cohan got shafted. Most probably because she had the ovaries to speak up and ask for what she was worth behind the scenes. (view spoiler)[How can you have a community leader leave off-screen? We deserved to see that play out. Her disappearance was only slightly better done than that of Heath back in season 6 (who was not much more than a redshirt) when no-one asked Tara on screen, when she returned from their trip alone, where he was. (hide spoiler)] Again, time jumps suck when stuff happens during them.

Anyway, despite my many criticisms, I am actually still enjoying the show this season, just with a healthy side plate of skepticism. It still has the power to excite and thrill me despite everything I say about it. I just hate so much that my characters aren't all together and happy and doing what I want them to be doing (how spoiled do I sound?!) hahaha.

[Marla]

Maggie ~ (view spoiler)[ I was getting tired of her anger and grief, but it wasn't her fault...there were just too many episodes right after Glen's death. But Maggie was never one of my favorite characters. I liked Glen and Hershel better. Though I liked Maggie over Tara or Beth. Tara just never seemed to interest me.

I thought there would be more of a goodbye for Maggie, but I guess I don't care all that much. Now, Tara, her death would please me. (hide spoiler)]

Michonne ~ (view spoiler)[ I called the baby when she told Rick that she was ready and when there was a boy in the flashback and when I heard Andy was leaving the show. (hide spoiler)]

Jesus ~ (view spoiler)[ I was a little sad to see him go. I preferred Jesus to Aaron, so after seeing the sparring, I thought Aaron was going to die. I wasn't sure that Jesus would be a good leader, but I liked him as an advisor. (hide spoiler)]

Negan ~ (view spoiler)[ Seriously, you just let him walk away?! I don't think Negan can be rehabilitated because he believes he's doing the correct and necessary thing. So you should've killed him. (hide spoiler)]

Whisperers ~ (view spoiler)[ I thought the talking walkers were really creepy. I think they should've ended with a cliffhanger. Have Jesus get killed by a walker and have Daryl find the stitches at the back of the Walker's head, but then end the episode. So we, non comic readers, would be in suspense until next season. (hide spoiler)]