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Robert R McCammon
His post was interesting. Although I think he was quite accurate when he wrote:"Anyway…I am not only travelling by night, I feel I am babbling by night."
Although I'm more interested in his contemporary fiction/horror than I am in his historical novels, I'm buying them all anyway to read later. I'm sure they will be very well written.
I'm happy to trust him. :)
McCammon wrote a very good, HONEST article...but I disgaree with him on one point...and the aforementioned comment of this massive sci-fi epic sounds very intriguing...
I'll second that 'well said Tressa' I've been reading Mr McCammon's books for as long as he's been writing them, and I will continue to do so.
How many of us just read Boy's Life - some of us for the 2nd or 3rd time - and still say it's one of the best books we've ever read.
How many people do you think will be saying that about the Grey books?
Joanne wrote: "How many people do you think will be saying that about the Grey books? "Unfortunately, probably a lot :( cuz they are book dumb! .. 80% of the fans will be people who read 1 or 2 books a year and wouldn't know talent from a hole in the wall. Makes me sick too, to see great authors slide under the radar to make room for crap books.
About McCammon, I've read Swan's Song and loved it! He is such a great author, great character development, and had me "cringing" or "making disgusted faces" as I was reading (hard to get me to do that). I am looking forward to reading some more by McCammon.
Thanks, Joanne. I'm currently reading They Thirst and it's good. McCammon's books are always ambitious and more often than not right on the money and enjoyed by his MANY fans. Those Grey books will sink like a stone into obscurity in a few years.
and I second Charlene this time -Swan Song is also one of my favorite books but if you have not yet read Boy's Life Buddy you MUST move it to the top of your list. and I've probably said this a number of times but I also have a warm spot for Wolf's Hour ..... and Gone South .... and I could probably do this all day .....
Me too, Joanne. I picked up The Hunter from the Woods when it was on sale a few months back. I still haven't had a chance to read it though. My re-read of Wolf's Hour went well and I wanted to spend some more time with Michael Gallatin. : )
I've mentioned this before too that The Hunter from the Woods is a must read for anyone whose read Wolf's Hour
I loved Swan Song years ago and did the audible version last spring, what a treat, then I read Boy's Life, Wow. I also read Wolf's Hour, Stinger, Mystery Walk, what can I say except I can't get enough.
No offense to anyone here...and let me preface this by saying, NO, I have not read the 50 Shades novels and don't plan on it...but why all this animosity? Outside of those teen books made popular over the past 10-12 years, and possibly Dan Brown, NOTHING has even come close in popularity. Good for her. I think any author would love to catch that lightning in a bottle. And I'm saying this as a McCammon fan since 1987...
I haven't read those books either. They were started as Twilight fan fiction. She changed the names and published it. Yes, it is good for her.
But when someone like McCammon who has the chops to string words together like noone else is denied space in a bookstore because he chose to go with a small publisher, something is wrong with that.
Don't you agree?
Mine got me hooked. Swan Song was impossible to put down. They Thirst is one of the most memorable vampire books I've ever read. I have read some of his other work but those were the three that stick out in my mind. Will have to go back and reread some because I was really young the first time. just got Mystery Walk for the Kindle. guess I'll start there.
Charlene wrote: "I haven't read those books either. They were started as Twilight fan fiction. She changed the names and published it. Yes, it is good for her.
But when someone like McCammon who has the chops to..."
Charlene, I think McCammon deserves to be read by more readers but he himself even admitted the risk he took...and as far as the other goes, it is simply a case of supply and demand...and one hell of a demand...
And perhaps going with a small publisher played a part in that, as well as very long hiatus from the book world...and again, I am a McCammon fan, just my two cents. I just feel like it is a bit disingenuous to blast another author's wild success that she certainly couldn't even predict or foresee.
Well, his long hiatus was due to yet another publisher problem. I see your point, but I guess it just makes me angry that someone with little to no skill is more financially successful than someone like McCammon.
Chris, what animosity are you talking about? I wrote in my post good for anyone who can make millions of dollars in a short amount of time. Talentless hack actors do it all the time, why not this woman? But I'm not backing down on my opinion that it's a goddamn shame and a sad statement on society that some poorly written erotica books has a readership bigger than Robert McCammon and J.K. Rowling.
I have to agree with Tressa. I read the first 50 Shades book. It left me feeling like my intelligence had been insulted. Like I wouldn't notice the crappy dialog, repetitive phrases, and grammar errors galore. I do think it is a shame the author made a killing putting this book (series) out there to turn a dollar. The only upside to this is I hope (as popular as this series has become) that it gets people to read who normally wouldn't so they can discover REAL authors (McCammon, Rowling, King, etc...).
Im going to read Mine after I finish Seed, and Survivor
Maybe animosity wasn't the right word, Tressa...my apologies...and perhaps it is a bit of a sad statement at all...and I think it is rather interesting that a very erotic book draws so varying opinions...a lot of it negative...and yeah, I know all about the writing quality, errors, etc etc...my point is the positive aspects of some maybe discovering a love of reading when perhaps they hadn't before, even if it is arguably badly written erotica.
Getting people to read is never a bad thing, look at how many kids got interested in books because of the Harry Potter series. I haven't read the Grey books because I know I have no interest in them, and maybe it's not fair to pick on one book in particular, it just happens to be the most recent. What this all comes back to is that as fans, we just feel angry for someone we have been reading for years and has written some of our favorite books, not getting the same type of recognition and respect as someone who maybe is not as good a writer - I don't think most people would feel this way if the books were actually good.
Joanne wrote: "Getting people to read is never a bad thing, look at how many kids got interested in books because of the Harry Potter series. I haven't read the Grey books because I know I have no interest in the..."Agreed...but many have criticized JK Rowling for not being a particularly good writer but her stories are entertaining...
I bet most of the people reading Fifty will go back to not reading for decades after Fifty's thrill is gone.
That's another good point, Tressa. I have always liked to revisit books that I have enjoyed. I find that I discover new things almost every time. I'm slowly re-reading all the McCammon books that I read as a teen.
Come on. The people criticizing Rowling for not being a good writer don't know their ass from their elbow. Comparing the intricate plot and beloved characters of Rowling's HP series to Fifty is absurd. What galls me is that what's found in Fifty can be found for free on the Internet! Badly written erotica with repetitive sex scenes.
the Harry Potter books may not be the best written, but as Chris said, the stories are entertaining and people really liked the characters --- I bet more kids that read Harry Potter will continue reading than non-reading adults who read the Fifty Shades of Grey series just because of the hype
I think this is one of those cases where the author is doing too much introspection. We can thank the blogging generation for this kind of extraneous info dump.Just write more stories, Mr. McCammon! :)
McCammon is an excellent writer but, respectfully, he hasn't been as prolific as he could have been, if he hadn't gotten so wrapped up in the politics of the publishing business (he's had 19 books since 1978 -- that's roughly a book every other year, when I bet he could have had almost twice that output). In another article/blog post on his website he wrote that his agent told him more or less, "just write {the stories}!"
Solid advice I wish he would have taken. Think how many more more books we could have read by him if he hadn't allowed himself to be infected by business people who didn't properly recognize and trust his creative genius.
I'm a huge McCammon fan and glad to see him back writing, period. Admittedly I'm in the New York camp being more interested in his contemporary work, but anything by him is better than what we got when he was retired. The sci-fi horror book sounds great. I might wait for him to finish the ten Corbett books before diving in there.
Label me a selfish fan, but I just want to see my favorite authors keep writing and publishing, whether self-published, small press, or through New York.
Well said, Todd. Also, I believe the author took a self-imposed "break" from publishing for over ten years to spend more time with his family, etc...perhaps even a little burned out...I remember reading something about this...correct me if I'm wrong.
I had written a large response, but deleted it. Instead, I suggest the following reading for more on what happened and why McCammon retired for 10 years.http://www.robertmccammon.com/article...
http://www.robertmccammon.com/article...
http://www.robertmccammon.com/article...
http://jpierceportfolio.wordpress.com...
There's more to it than "allow[ing] himself to be infected by business people."
Thanks.
Hunter
Thanks Hunter - loved those posts. His post on Boy's Life brings back the immense joy I had reading it. I also really enjoyed reading about The Village. I didn't realise there was an unpublished story out there. I'm not sure if it's something that's possible, but I would snap that up in a heartbeat if it were released by McCammon independently.
I have only a few authors in my life for whom every piece of work is a mandatory purchase and McCammon is one of them. It all started when I kept going on and on about how much I loved his books (borrowed from my sister) and how disappointed I was that his books were hard to find in Australia. Then one Christmas before The Queen of Bedlam was published, I received a box of all his book up to Speaks the Nightbird.
I've been slowly savouring his books in the midst of other reading commitments over the last few years. I'm hoping that he continues to write enough that I never catch up to him. :)
Thanks for your post, Hunter.The more I read about McCammon the more respect I have for him, both as a writer and as a man.
Caleb, I'm very jealous that you have all those McCammon works ahead of you. : )
Hunter wrote: "There's more to it than "allow[ing] himself to be infected by business people."Hunter - you seem a bit (unnecessarily) defensive. Also, my comment would be more in context, and seem less like a cheap shot at a writer I deeply admire and respect, if you had included my entire quote:
"Think how many more more books we could have read by him if he hadn't allowed himself to be infected by business people who didn't properly recognize and trust his creative genius."
Respectfully, you know Robert McCammon better than most (all?) of us in this group. He's a personal friend of yours, yes/no? So, if there's more than what's in these articles and interviews (which I've read before and you'll see below seem to indicate there isn't "more to it"), that he has said somewhere publicly perhaps you can set the record straight?
Yes, Mr. McCammon also took time out to raise his daughter, but in the links referenced above the man in his own words is talking about being infected by the business side of publishing and going into a "depression."
Again, I'm not stating this to disparage Mr. McCammon in any way, I'm simply stating factual information that has come from his own words. Please correct the record if this is not the case.
http://www.robertmccammon.com/article... - December 1998
"To make this long story shorter: I ran into (collided with, actually) an editor who wanted me to change the book to make it into (my opinion here, of course) an historical romance. I will be kind to the memory of this person. We did not see eye-to-eye on anything. I simply could not make the changes I was asked to make." - Robert McCammon
and:
"The truth is that I was afraid to work, for fear of another rejection. I did keep at the new book, called The Village, but only a few pages at the time. I got very depressed during this time period, and I wondered if I ought to just quit. I was wondering what else I could do, and realized I couldn't do very much else." - Robert McCammon
http://www.robertmccammon.com/article...
"But I started running into resistance. I was told repeatedly that my fans expected a certain type of book from me, and that was the bottom line. I suggested that I might try writing under a pseudonym, but I was told that wouldn't work because then my fans "couldn't find me."
The point being, I was beginning to understand that I had a particular place in the publishing world—that place was "horror" and I ought to be satisfied with where I was." - Robert McCammon
http://jpierceportfolio.wordpress.com...
"I left my publishing house at that time, with “Speaks the Nightbird” in hand, because I just wanted to start over somewhere. I didn’t want to be thought of as the imitator anymore, and I thought I needed a new publishing house to be taken more seriously." - Robert McCammon
and:
"So, anyway, I couldn’t do the editing and I pulled the book." - Robert McCammon
and:
"That book didn’t get one offer ... I took my manuscripts, went home, and figured my career was over." - Robert McCammon
You're right, Todd. In my original reply, which I deleted, I quoted this from you:"In another article/blog post on his website he wrote that his agent told him more or less, "just write {the stories}!"
Solid advice I wish he would have taken.
And that's really where the "there's more to it" came from. You're right, of course, as your excerpts indicate. One prominent editor at the time publicly chastised him for not having thicker skin. But when he'd had to fight to get BOY'S LIFE published as he wrote it and then everything that followed that, I completely understand why he felt the way he did.
However, even his agent at the time was telling him, "Just give the publishers what they want." In other words, "Don't write what makes you happy, just give the publishers what they want." Instead of going to bat for him, his agent(s) let him down, too.
I took your comment, "solid advice", in the same manner, albeit perhaps unfairly. I couldn't agree with you more: I wish none of that had happened and that we'd had lots more McCammon novels to enjoy. But to say that he ignored solid advice is wrong. It wasn't solid advice, it was laziness from an agent who wasn't willing to work for and on behalf of his client. And that's why I posted all the links.
None of this, of course, is unique to Robert McCammon. Unless your name is King or Koontz, everybody has run into this, and we'll continue to see it more and more....
And yes, Rick McCammon is a personal friend of mine, and yes, I probably am too defensive. In this case, I took umbrage with one small part of your post, when I should have just let it go. My apologies.
Hunter
Hunter - thank you for the follow-up. Let me explain in greater detail what I meant by his agent giving him "solid advice." I did not mean that he should have ever agreed to radically change his stories. Heck, I had an editor back in 1992 ask me to gut one of my horror novels and rewrite it as a woman-in-distress book instead.
So, I think we agree on this point, too :)
What I am saying was solid advice was "keep writing." Keep going. If something you write and finish doesn't work now, it might work later with somebody else (as the Corbett series eventually did with his current publisher). I wish Mr. McCammon had done the same thing rather than retiring. It's like the characters in his book The Five. They kept going, kept working on that last song, kept pushing despite their obstacles. They did something Mr. McCammon did not do and I find a fascinating parallel there.
Today, which was not the case 20 years ago, I readily admit, we can see almost everything a writer deems publishable published -- assuming they are willing to self-publish.
Robert McCammon could self-publish The Village right now, if his current publishing contract allowed and he wanted to. He could pay for an editor or put up a post and have a bunch of editors begging to do his bidding pro bono, I'm guessing, just to be able to add to their reference list.
So the only good reason today why any publishable work like The Village goes unpublished is if an author's current publishing contract does not legally allow him to self-publish under a pen name and/or the author him/herself doesn't want the story published.
Frankly, I think if he can he should self-publish that book. This way he'll get 70% at Amazon and other publishers direct instead of the much smaller percentage he's getting from his current publishing arrangement. I know he likes having hardcover versions of his books as collectibles for readers. There are places he could have excellent hardbound copies made of his books, if he wanted to do so and his current contract allowed. He could do almost everything New York publishers do except get his books in grocery stores and the like.
I know there used to be a major stigma with self-publishing (vanity, yadda, yadda), and to some extent there still is with some, but it's fading as more and more trad pub authors break ranks and do it themselves (with the help of professional editors, of course) and make a lot more money.
Writers as good as Robert McCammon no longer must have unpublished manuscripts that they deem publishable sitting on shelves gathering dust.
The "solid advice" his agent gave is that we missed out on the great stories he should have kept writing. We missed out on something he could have given us that now is forever lost in the combines of time.
I wish every writer with fans would realize that we're out here and we crave more good stories. All that you can write. Please fellow writers remember this when you get discouraged with business garbage. It's the stories that matter more than anything else to both you and readers.
As much as possible, please, please leave the suits out of the art.
Hi, Todd.The key to everything, I think, is this: Depression robs people of the ability to think and act logically....
McCammon actually did keep writing until 1998. Though it took a long time, as he describes, he wrote Speaks the Nightbird from 1993 to 1996, then wrote the The Village from 1996 to 1998. His actual "retirement" really only lasted five years, from late 1999 to 2004, when he started working on The Queen of Bedlam. At the time, it seemed to him like the right thing to do.
There are any number of small press publishers who would love to publish The Village. McCammon addressed this in a January 2010 post: "But...I might at some point clean it up and put it out there, so The Village is certainly not dead. It's just that right now I have so many other things going on."
He has considered self-publishing (at one time, we were going to publish The Village for free on his website---this predates the ebook boom---but that plan was scrapped for various reasons), and may still. But as he said in his "I Travel By Night" essay a few days ago, "One might say the era of the brick-and-mortar bookstore is coming to an end, but my work must be on the shelves of as many bookstores as possible, or I will find myself laboring at a “hobby” instead of having a “career”." For all of the talk about self-publishing, I know of very few authors who are actually able to make a living with their self-published ebooks, at least for now.
You mentioned the characters in The Five: that view is something that McCammon shares now. In the midst of his depression, he wasn't able to keep going. Once he found his way out of that, he started writing again and, as he's said, has plans for numerous more books.
Hunter
Hunter - He might consider doing something like J.A. Konrath did and do both: publish for free as download on his website (promotional, marketing) and self-publish as an ebook and POD. 100% of $0 (The Village sitting on a shelf unavailable everywhere) is worse financially than 100% of something.What I'm suggesting is that--if he can within the parameters of his contract--he should strongly consider doing both: publish traditionally, self-publish and/or use small/indie publishers for work that doesn't fit in the New York box. Consider the self-published stuff supplemental income. That's what a number of authors are doing these days.
(and yes, many are not hobbyists)
The business is changing. I'm glad to read that he has been thinking of exploring other publishing models and only took five years off from writing. Still, in those five years (ironic considering the title of his most recent contemporary novel), we lost at least two more novels we could have read . . . someday.
I appreciate the dialogue and additional insight. Have a nice day, sir :)
Hi, Todd. You wrote:he should strongly consider doing both: publish traditionally, self-publish and/or use small/indie publishers for work that doesn't fit in the New York box.
That's essentially what's happening now. Subterranean Press is publishing the Matthew Corbett books. The intention was for The Five to be published by a NY publisher. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, no NY publisher picked it up. That will change next year, though, when TOR publishes The Five in paperback.
Subterranean does beautiful books, and their trade editions are priced comparably to, if not cheaper than, NY-published books. Unfortunately, B&N, as a general rule, won't stock small press books, so even though the Subterranean books are available via the same distributors the NY houses use, B&N ignores them because Subterranean is a small press (and because Subterranean can't afford to pay for placement, which the NY houses do). But hopefully that'll change to....
Thanks. You have a nice day, too!
Hunter
I enjoyed the back and forth between you two. It's so nice to see that spirited conversation can still take place, with no name calling or derisive comments.Depression is an illness, though not one that many take seriously, even today. I've seen a number of people who suffer from it (my Mom for one) and it robs people of all of their motivation and reason for living. It's a dangerous disease.
Lastly, Hunter...everyone needs to have a friend like you. : )
Thanks, Charlene! 8-)Aside from the one comment that Todd made that prompted my reply, I don't disagree with anything Todd has said. Rick and I have discussed self-publishing, POD, etc. Two years ago, nobody had much interest in ebooks. Now they're catching on big time. We'll see what happens.
And Caleb, how cool that you received the box of books. Was that from your sister?
Hunter
also enjoying the back and forth conversation and the information it contains. Hunter, I'd say Mr McCammon is very lucky to have a friend like you and vice versapeople speak lightly of being 'depressed' at times but unless you've experienced a true depression you have no idea how much it takes over and changes your life - I am unfortunately experiencing this first hand and some days it's an effort just to get out of bed. I'm just glad to see that Mr McCammon was able to get himself out of it and back to writing - and his life.
I, too, enjoyed the back and forth between Hunter and Todd, and thanks to both for being honest and respectful. And thanks, Hunter, for the insight and obvious knowledge of an author a lot of really have enjoyed reading for 20+ years. As a writer myself, I have to completely respect Robert's desire to follow his muse, in regards to those topics previously discussed. Personally, I LOVED the first Matthew Corbett novel, and have the second one in my mountainous TBR pile. Yeah, sure, more horror novels would've been great, but I really applaud the artistic side that wants/needs/craves something different. Maybe he paid a price for that but I believe ultimately he can look himself in mirror, as it were, and not think "What if...". Perhaps he would've "burned out" by churning out horror that he didn't feel 100% passionate about (but knew his publisher would've loved him to write) and didn't bother with writing something as amazing as SPEAKS THE NIGHTBIRD (and the rest in the series) or THE VILLAGE. At the end of day, I think his fans respect him MORE for following his muse, and his heart. I only hope--for HIM--that it truly pays off someday soon. He's one of the best...
Sidenote, as someone who works for the aforementioned retail bookstore, I know how few small-press books make it onto the shelves, with a few exceptions. There are a lot of factors that I won't bore people with, and I'm certainly no expert, but I have been a part of the bookselling business for over 15 years. Ebooks are here to stay, for good or ill (I tend to lean toward the good part), and I've heard of several authors that have broken away from the traditional route and been quite successful (Joe Konrath was already mentioned).
Additional sidenote (sorry!): my store has always carried a couple of McCammon's Pocket Books editions of Boy's Life and Swan Song, and for a few years running, Boy's Life was required "summer reading" for some of our area high schools, which was awesome!
One of the biggest side effects of McCammon's time away from publishing is the damage done to his name recognition. Lots of people---especially younger people---have never heard of him, and even people who read him way back when stopped looking for him. You'd be surprised---or maybe you wouldn't---how often I hear from people who say, "I didn't know he was writing again!" And that's after he's been back for 10 years. That's one reason why a bookstore presence is so important.That's why I encourage you all to recommend the books to your friends, post on Facebook, other Goodreads groups, etc. Maybe a grassroots effort can help repair the damage. 8-)
Thanks for all the kind words.
Hunter
Abso-freakin-lutely, Hunter...and thank you! :)
I an with Chris (hey, this ain't The Bighead thread) in thanking Hunter for his insight into this subject that obviously means a lot to McCammon's many fans here at HA. We are always suggesting his books to new members, and Boy's Life and Swan Song are favorites of many here. I have been reading McCammon since the '80s. And I always enjoy Todd's contributions even when he doesn't agree with me. :-D
You just HAD to disparage The Bighead, didn't you, Tressa? :P
Horror Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
The River of Souls (other topics)Blue World (other topics)
Gone South (other topics)
They Thirst (other topics)
Swan Song (other topics)
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It's a rarity for a writer to consistently produce great works of literature. That's what I call them, and how I think of them, no matter the genre.
The man is a wordsmith and deserves better than this.