Chicks On Lit discussion
Archive 08-19 GR Discussions
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Atlas Shrugged *chunky read*
I just have to ask everybody - is anyone surprised by the heat in this book? Woah! I'm blown away by it. This book is nothing like what I expected.
I don't like Rearden. I think he's too...I don't know. It's been too long since I read the book, but I remember really not liking him.******SPOOOOIIIIILLLLLER*******
I think it's when he and Dagny's relationship gets farther down the road that I don't like him. Don't worry, there's someone better for Dagny. :)
Mod
Oooh, Emily. Someone better for Dagney? I hope so! :o)
I'm almost hoping this mythical John Galt guy (Who is John Galt?) shows up. Since Dagney named her railroad line after him, I'm hoping the 'real' him will make an appearance. Could there be romance there? Have to get back to reading. :o)
Guesses:Maybe the guy Eddie keeps talking to in the cafeteria is John Galt? Or is it supposed to be the guy who was whistling the fifth concerto when we meet Dagny on the train. Also I'm wondering if Dagny winds up with Eddie. But I don't wanna know. So don't tell me.
John Galt as the unnamed man - I was wondering that too Laura.
His conversation w him in Chapter 8 made me think that. At the end. Hmm. I'm really loving this! I love books that make me think.
I don't have my pen so I'm just making a note here to ask about p 221 tomorrow. It's in chapter 8, where I'm reading and I know we're not supposed to talk about that yet.
Does anyone think it's odd that the book starts with Eddie? The bum too, but Eddie? I'm thinking he has to become a more important character as the book progresses.
yup - that's why I think the bum is important - I think all the no-name unidentified people are really the same person. And I always think its odd that everyone tells such important details to this stranger. Could be wrong - that's part of the fun of it all.
Has anyone read pages 235-239 WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
I've just passed that and I'm still glued to the pages.
so since we're not all in the same edition... this is after the train's inaugural run and at Wyatt's???? got a thermometer?
Yep, I have. Pretty steamy right??? .. and I am not talking about the train!!!
SNAP!!! - here sit a bunch of women.. on a Saturday night no less - all over a book... *sigh*
Wait. Meg I thought you and I had the same edition. Do u mean the end of chapter 8 cause I couldn't help but notice some key phrases there. ;)
**********spoilers chapter 9***********Holy freaking crap. I just finished that part. Which ended on p 256 in my book. Woah mama. This book is unlike every book I've read - even the sex? Who'd have guessed her reaction?
What? who would have guessed either one's reaction? talk about cold, calculating, intellectual passion. OMG I just can't believe all of this!!! What a book.
You know but it seems to fit his repressed sexual personality and his demeanor at some level. I don't see it fitting her as well. I don't know it's kinda bizarre. Still hot though. Not what I expected from this book! I thought this was going to be more intellectual and philosophical. I didn't expect all of the passion.
Obsession for sure! I agree that this is not what I thought the book would be. I thought it would be very dry but wow! I am super surprised. It was written is 1957 and not received well at all. It was released the same year as the novels Room At the Top, Dr Zhivago, On the Beach, From Russia With Love, By Love Possessed, The Guns of Navarone and The World of Suzie Wong, among others were published.
I've been wanting to read Dr Z, and it's interesting you mention the other books published in '57, Marialyce, because I've found myself thinking I need to read more books published in this era! I've not read any you mention, but I think Atlas just stands apart.One of the things i love about this book is the way that sex is written. Whether you like the depraved quality of it in AS is a personal choice, but I appreciate the fact that it's not explicit in nature. I think it has much more heat when the details are left to the imagination.
*********spoilers chapter 8
So does anyone have a guess as to who was standing in the alley outside Dagny's John Galt office that night? She asked Rearden and he said it wasn't him. I guess it could have been Eddie? Franco? Or maybe John Galt??
I am going on vacation for 10 days and hope to have finished the book by the time I am back. I'll be back to the thread then. I'll have internet access but I am afraid I am finding too much about the plot before I get to it.
I've wondered about that too Elena. I waited to post that comment until today because of the reading schedule but perhaps it should be marked as a spoiler w the chapter heading too. Not everyone reads these chunkys according to the schedule, especially those who find this thread months from now. ***Maybe we should mark
*********spoilers chapter 9***********
or whatever chapter it is whenever we discuss plot points? What do you all think of that?
I think that is a great idea Laura. I am not yet finished with the pages due today. I find I have to read this in small doses. I don't know if it is the small print or the content or maybe both!...and I would love to read Dr Z again, it was so many years ago that I did. I did read On the Beach though and it scared me tremendously. (saw both Dr. Z and On the Beach movies too!)
A good friend who loved Atlas also highly recommends Zhivago. I've wanted to read it since her rec!
That is a great suggestion Laura. I will be very careful to mark each of my posts and I am sure everyone will too.Just loving this book.
I'm loving it too! Stunned!Thx for that Meg, it should solve that problem hopefully for all of us. Even when people mark a spoiler, if the chapter's not mentioned, you're not sure whether to read it or not.
I have to say, I just may read this book solely, even once I catch up to the schedule!
**Chapter 10**I just read the part about Mayor Bascom. What do you think of him as a "typical" politician?
One phrase I keep seeing over and over: "It wasn't my fault.". Sounds like our society today, doesn't it? No one wants to take responsibility for anything.
Marialyce wrote: "**Chapter 10**I just read the part about Mayor Bascom. What do you think of him as a "typical" politician?"
I think he's a typical slimy politician but I don't think all pols are necessarily slimy. It's rare, but there are honest politicians.
You know Laura, that phrase hit me too. It is not my fault and it is ever so rare to hear a person say I am sorry, it was my fault. No one takes responsibility anymore particularly the younger generations. They mostly blame someone or something else but never themselves. Do you think the years of "self esteem" building has created this?
I think that's part of it! It is kind of the not my fault generation. Also the entitlement generation, which is another phrase I keep seeing. We were entitled to XYZ and it wasn't our fault we didn't do ABC. I subscribe to the Judge Judy school of thought re: taking responsibility. There'd be way less lawsuits if people admitted fault where it was clear and obvious, that's for sure.
I agree 100% and I love Judge Judy. Wish she would run for public office.
Marialyce, I think the philosophy of entitlement and lack of responsibility among other self-centered ills have come from the idea we have to reward everything, even, as was mentioned earlier, just participating. And we are so conscious of people's self esteem. We're afraid of criticizing someone/something. While the criticism may be "constructive" - we're fear a lawsuit. We don't give honest feedback or even advice anymore, lest it be held against us, not politically correct. etc. etc. etc.
I also agree with you, Nancy. Having been a teacher for many years, I have seem the results of making everyone feel "cozy". We make limited demands on the kids and then do not understand it when they give us limited results. Even worse, we coddle the people who scream the loudest so afraid of ruffling feathers. (the dreaded lawsuit) Most do not tow the mark and those that do are forced to carry the rest along. Group projects are the bane to school existence and I always hated having to do them as it ALWAYS fell to one student to do all the work and carry the group. I think the school world is a microcosm of the business world. Do you feel the same?
I sure do - also having been a teacher and a parent - hate the group projects for all the reasons you stated. My kids were usually the ones who did all the work. Can't believe how many group projects my daughter is still doing in college? And yes, a microcosm is a good example, not just the business world. My lawsuit comment was definitely from a teacher's perspective. Kids are going to be kids and they will make mistakes, make some poor choices, act out and be children. There are some wonderful families who expect their kids to work to their abilities, be responsible and respectful. And when their kids goof up, they stand behind those expectation and behind you because we are all on the same page. We're just trying to help them on the road to growing up, wanting the best for the child. The tough, frustrating part are those families who have difficulties with their child's behavior and either think it's cute, are in denial, don't know how OR are afraid of doing their job. You can't suggest a dysfunctional family see a good therapist, because that wouldn't be appropriate. I wish it were otherwise, because I really care about some of these poor babes and they are NOT really getting what they need because we're all afraid to voice an opinion.
I know exactly what you are saying and yes, my kids too, always were the go to people who carried the projects. My heart would always break for those kids who couldn't and the parents who felt their disabilities were our fault and were not willing to listen to the voice of reason and experience.
I don't know about you all but when we'd complain about our teachers, our parents would stick up for them! Now the parents whine because they're making Johnny work too hard. Welcome to the real world Johnny!I agree w you all re the group projects being a microcosm of the world. Very interesting. And I do wish JUdge Judy would run for office, or at least volunteer to clean up the entitlement programs. There are certainly people who need and deserve help, but there are so many people out there scamming these programs, scamming their employers, it goes on and on.
What we're really lacking in this world today is integrity. That's what we're missing.
Absolutely, Laura! When or if we got into trouble at school, it was worse when we got home because mom and dad would be much tougher on you than any teacher could be (and I had a bunch of really tough nuns!)I always made my girls tow the line in school. I always took the teachers' side and they knew they could not get past me with the fact that the teacher was "picking" on me. It was their job to do well in school just as their dad and I had our jobs where we were expected to do well.
I guess you girls are raising your children the same way.
...as far as integrity goes all we have to do is have our kids see the Bill Clinton's of the political arena and out goes that word.
It's a shame too, and proof that mens' brains dangle. Also, I believe, the reason for teens' growing practice of oral sex, and also statements that that kind of sex isn't really sex. Brilliant mind + dangling brain = tragedy. ******spoilers chapter 10 *****
Another repeated phrase: check your premises. You'll find that one of them is wrong. Loving that. I felt like I understood the incorrect premise w Franco, but w Hugh, I'm not sure.
Chapter TenI think my favorite line in the book so far comes from Reardon:Lillian, what purpose do you live for?
I loved the parents who stood behind the teachers! There are a lot of parents who didn't have a good experience in school themselves, and then they don't have any expectations for their children. It's so hard. I love the mom that met with me and our principal (at a very small charter school) because she was having trouble with her daughter and wanted some input. Wow.
Love parents like that. So many are really great parents, but the few that give you a tough time can really be hard on the morale.Chapter 10 - I may be the behind one now, but I only have the last 15 pages or so go be caught up. In my case, I DO NOT care if you are flashing any spoilers. BTW - wasn't it interesting that Rearden and Dagny have this attraction/heat that is sprung from their intelllectual admiration for one another but by contrast James Taggart had no desire for the waitress he picked up - perhaps for exactly what he lacks. He has lost his ability for independent thought, career success, etc.
Yeah, Cherryl is way too good for him. A doe among vipers.
So, what's the bit with Lillian? She more or less confronts Hank and it seems like she knows about his affair and yet she doesn't really do anything. ...and the separate bedrooms and the loveless marriage? I know that divorce was a bad thing in the "50's" but why would this couple who are so miserable together stay together? He seems to hate is kids too, but you don't know Lillian;s feelings for them. (if she has any feelings)You are right, Meg, what does she live for? Is it to just torture Hank?
Did you mean to say his kids Marialyce? I've not seen evidence of Hank and L having any kids but I may have missed it. *********chapter 2, Part 2************
Has anyone got to Francos speech at the reception? It is totally blowing me away.
Not yet but intend to get there today so I will get back to you.I could be wrong Laura, but I will have to reread to see where I got the kids from. :)
Marialyce wrote: "So, what's the bit with Lillian? She more or less confronts Hank and it seems like she knows about his affair and yet she doesn't really do anything. ...and the separate bedrooms and the loveless m..."Or is it to remain in her social standing? Were divorced woman of that era forced to wear a scarlet letter still?
Marialyce wrote: "So, what's the bit with Lillian? She more or less confronts Hank and it seems like she knows about his affair and yet she doesn't really do anything. ...and the separate bedrooms and the loveless m..."I'm surprised she even noticed he's not been around as much. He was hardly ever there as it was. If my husband stayed at work almost all the time, I would probably not be married to him still. I think Lillian's horrible, but if I were standing in her shoes, I would probably be divorcing him.
Saying that, Rachelle makes a good point. That probably wasn't done then. Her social standing would be too important to her to risk doing that, I think. But if your life is that shallow, it would seem you wouldn't really care.
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I didn't feel that Rearden was angry but he wanted to put distance between him and Dagny, his feelings and the meaning of her act. The same thing he did when he left her in Colorado..."
Me too....when he describes lots of things, in Chapter 7. Woah, I was almost fanning myself, the heat was so hot lol!