The Infernal Devices discussion
Team Will vs. Team Jem
message 301:
by
brittany
(last edited Jul 12, 2011 12:34AM)
(new)
Jul 12, 2011 12:33AM
Lol. /Snort.
reply
|
flag
Laitoste wrote: "I think that the Will and Tessa love-team is the fiery kind to capture readers, its steamy, dramatic and, not to mention agonizing(I feel as if Will broke my heart; how funny is that? O.o). In real..."yeah! I was thinking about that too. Will and Tessa, have that Elizabeth and Mr.Darcy kind of relationship.
With how things are going with Tessa, Will, and Jem; i don't think we may reach any crystal-clear, fall-out, decision, not just yet. I'm excited for the second book, i cant wait much longer. And im still angry at Will for doing that to Tessa, im hoping he will make it up to her in the second book (also for my own heart's sake... :P).
Laitoste wrote: "With how things are going with Tessa, Will, and Jem; i don't think we may reach any crystal-clear, fall-out, decision, not just yet. I'm excited for the second book, i cant wait much longer. And im..."agreed! but after reading the prologue of CP, i feel really bad for Will... because he really does love Tessa! but he doesn't want to! :( and that's why he's being mean to her, because he doesn't want her to like him... yeah my theory doesn't make much sense
I'm actually really disappointed it's going to be a triangle. I was really hoping for a platonic male/female friendship in this part of the series since we already did the triangle in TMI but I guess modern fiction doesn't really recognise that it is possible for that to happen.I love both Will & Jem but I don't see Jem as the right sort of person for Tessa just because he, like Simon would have been, is the easy choice. A really nice guy, with none of the obvious flaws of Will but someone I think she'd feel she settled with because he wasn't her first choice and although he'll never hurt her, he'll also never evoke the same passions and feelings in either. I love Jem, he's a great guy but I'm rooting for him to find someone else that is a better match for him who wants him first, foremost and above everyone else. Someone like Sophie maybe, or someone we haven't met yet.
Will is a deeply flawed person, and his behaviour at the end of CA aside which was admittedly deplorable, he clearly cares for Tessa and I find it hard to believe that Jem, as aware as he is of Will's character and how he pushes away the people he loves, would take advantage of that.
We'll see I suppose - it's hard to predict but I guess we'll find out soon.
Marianne wrote: "I'm actually really disappointed it's going to be a triangle. I was really hoping for a platonic male/female friendship in this part of the series since we already did the triangle in TMI but I gue..."I agree with you completely! Couldn't have said it better. I think his flawed behavior reflects his rough background... Something must have happened in his past that caused him to run away from home. And what about "Cecily" and Gabriel's sister. I think he punishes himself as a method of protecting his loved ones. He doesn't want Tessa to love him because he thinks he'll hurt her, hence his shameful conversation with Tessa at the end of CA...
and as Marianne said, choosing Jem is very much like choosing Simon. I think that Jem is a better friend than boyfriend, because of his patience and concern of others' well-being. Personally, I say that Tessa needs someone who is tough and reasonably dark (figurative!) to relate to... if you know what I mean.
Meghana wrote: "and as Marianne said, choosing Jem is very much like choosing Simon. I think that Jem is a better friend than boyfriend, because of his patience and concern of others' well-being. Personally, I say that Tessa needs someone who is tough and reasonably dark (figurative!) to relate to... if you know what I mean. "Yup, yup. And as a non fan of endless triangles in books, I have to say that I tend to really dislike the heroine when she's got two guys on a string especially when we know that she's settling for one because something is preventing her from being with who she really wants to be with. I really disliked Clary for a while in TMI and I was so excited because Tessa didn't look like she was going to have any of that ~drama~ going on. I have faith in Cassie as a writer that hopefully it won't be an issue, especially as it would take Jem basically doing the dirty on Will by making a move on the girl he knows he has feelings for, but I really am kinda gutted that it's even a worry. Jem is such a good guy - he deserves more than to be the fall back guy.
We'll see I guess. I'm just looking forward to finding out more about Will's past and hopefully he can redeem himself a bit in the second book. It's a shame that the one scene has kinda soured all the good points he has for a lot of people, but I'm pretty sure that was kinda his point when he made it.
Marianne wrote: "I'm actually really disappointed it's going to be a triangle. I was really hoping for a platonic male/female friendship in this part of the series since we already did the triangle in TMI but I gue..."I agree with a with a lot of this except that Jem is an easy choice he has a lot of issues too though not as many as Will.
April wrote: "Marianne wrote: "I agree with a with a lot of this except that Jem is an easy choice he has a lot of issues too though not as many as Will."Personality wise he's the easy choice though - you take his illness out of the equation then he's the easy choice - solid, dependable and there. What you see is what you get, there's no real skeletons lurking or questions of his motivations. He's the boy next door that any girl could take home and be proud of.
Meh, I just hate that every YA book has to go down the triangle route, especially as I find it hard to believe in a case like this that Jem would do that to Will. We'll see what happens I suppose.
I think i heard Cassie Clare say that she is especially fond of the love triangles so we will see more of them
April wrote: "I think i heard Cassie Clare say that she is especially fond of the love triangles so we will see more of them"Yup. It's a dramatic trick which is in so many YA series for whatever reason. I guess it's a way to get passions up when you get people to 'choose sides' but as someone who has maintained successful platonic male friendships over the years without it descending into anything more it is kinda grating for me to not see any real platonic male/female relationships. I think that's why I don't read that many YA books tbh!
i just found this on Cassie's website. I might be behind, but this excerpt that obviously wasn't in the book, changed my perspective. Take a look.Will Herondale was burning.
This was not the first time he had consumed vampire blood, and he knew the pattern of the sickness. First there was a feeling of giddiness and euphoria, as if one had drunk too much gin — the brief period of pleasant drunkenness before the morbs set in. Then pain, starting at the toes and fingertips, working its way up as if lines of gunpowder had been laid across his body and were burning their way toward his heart.
He had heard the pain was not so great for humans: that their blood, thinner and weaker than Shadowhunter blood, did not fight the demon disease as Nephilim blood did. He was vaguely aware when Sophie came in with the holy water, splashing him with the cool stuff as she set the buckets down and went out again. Sophie’s hatred of him was as reliable as fog in London; he could feel it coming off her whenever she got near him. The force of it lifted him up onto his elbows now. He pulled a bucket close to him and upended it over his head, opening his mouth to swallow what he could.
For a moment, it doused the fire burning through his veins entirely. The pain receded, except for the throbbing in his head. He lay back down carefully, crooking an arm over his face to block the dim illumination coming from the low windows. His fingers seemed to trail light as they moved. He heard’s Jem’s voice in his head, scolding him for risking himself. But the face he saw against his eyelids wasn’t Jem.
She was looking at him. The very darkest voice of his conscience, the reminder that he could protect no one, and last of all himself. Looking the way he had the last time he had seen her; she never changed, which was how he knew she was a figment of his imagination.
“Cecily,” he whispered. “Cecy, for the love of God, let me be.”
“Will?” That startled him; she appeared to him often, but rarely spoke. She reached her hand out, and he would have reached for her, too, had not the clang and clatter of metal brought him out of his reverie. He cleared his throat.
“Back, are you, Sophie?” Will said. “I told you if you brought me another one of those infernal pails, I’d—”
“It’s not Sophie,” came the reply. “It’s me. Tessa.”
The hammering of his own pulse filled his ears. Cecily’s image faded and vanished against his eyelids. Tessa. Why had they sent her? Did Charlotte hate him as much as all that? Was this meant to be a sort of object lesson to her in the indignities and dangers of Downworld? When he opened his eyes he saw her standing in front of him, still in her velvet dress and gloves. Her dark curls were startling against her pale skin and her cheekbone was freckled, lightly, with blood, probably Nathaniel’s.
Your brother, he knew he should say. How is he? It must have been a shock to see him. There is nothing worse than seeing someone you love in danger.
But it had been years, and he had learned to swallow the words he wanted to say, transform them. Somehow they were talking about vampires, about the virus and how it was transmitted. She gave him the pail with a grimace — good, she should be disgusted by him — and he used it again to quench the fire, to still the burning in his veins and throat and chest.
“Does that help?” she asked, watching him with her clear gray eyes. “Pouring it over your head like that?”
Will imagined how he must look to her, sitting on the floor with a bucket over his head, and made a strangled noise, almost a laugh. Oh, the glamour of Shadowhunting! The warrior life he had dreamed of as a child!
“The questions you ask . . .” he began. Someone else, someone not Tessa, might have perhaps apologized for asking but she only stood still, watching him like a curious bird. He did not think he had ever seen someone with eyes the color of hers before: it was the color of gray mist blowing in from the sea in Wales.
You could not lie to someone with eyes that reminded you of your childhood.
“The blood makes me feverish, makes my skin burn,” he admitted. “I can’t get cool. But, yes, the water helps.”
“Will,” Tessa said. When he looked up again, she seemed to be haloed by light like an angel, though he knew it was the vampire blood blurring his vision. Suddenly she was moving toward him, gathering her skirts out of the way to sit by him on the floor. He wondered why she was doing that, and realized to his own horror that he had asked her to. He imagined the vampire disease in his body, breaking down his blood, weakening his will. He knew, intellectually, that he had drunk enough holy water to kill the disease before it could burrow into his bones, and that he could not put his lack of control down to the sickness. And yet — she was so close to him, close enough that he could feel the heat radiating from her body.
“You never laugh,” she was saying. “You behave as if everything is funny to you, but you never laugh. Sometimes you smile when you think no one is paying attention.”
He wanted to close his eyes. Her words went through him like the clean slice of a seraph blade, lighting his nerves on fire. He’d had no idea she had observed him so closely, or so accurately. “You,” he replied. “You make me laugh. From the moment you hit me with that bottle. Not to mention the way that you always correct me. With that funny look on your face when you do it. And the way you shouted at Gabriel Lightwood. And even the way you talked back to de Quincey. You make me . . .”
His voice trailed off. He could feel the cold water trickling down his back, over his chest, against his heated skin. Tessa sat only inches from him, smelling of powder and perfume and perspiration. Her damp curls curled against her cheeks, and her eyes were wide on him, her pale pink lips slightly parted. She reached up to push back a lock of her hair, and, feeling like he was drowning, he reached out for her hand. “There’s still blood,” he said, inarticulately. “On your gloves.”
She began to draw away, but Will would not let her go; he was drowning, still, drowning, and he could not release her. He turned her small right hand over. He had the strongest desire to reach for her entirely, to pull her against him and fold her in his arms, to encompass her slim, strong body with his. He bent his head, glad she could not see his face as the blood rushed up into it. Her gloves were ragged, torn where she had clawed at her brother’s manacles. With a flick of his fingers, he opened the pearl buttons that kept her glove closed, baring her wrist.
He could hear himself breathing. Heat spread through his body — not the unnatural heat of vampire sickness, but the more ordinary flush of desire. The skin of her wrist was translucently pale, the blue veins visible beneath. He could see the flutter of her pulse, feel the warmth of her breath against his cheek. He stroked the softness of her wrist with the tips of his fingers and half-closed his eyes, imagining his hands on her body, the smooth skin of her upper arms, the silkiness of the legs hidden beneath her voluminous skirts. “Tessa,” he said, as if she had the slightest idea the effect she was having on him. There were women who might have, but Tessa was not one of them. “What do you want from me?”
“I—I want to understand you,” she whispered.
The thought was quite horrifying. “Is that really necessary?”
“I’m not sure anyone does understand you,” she breathed, “except possibly Jem.”
continued.....Jem. Jem had given up on understanding him long ago, Will thought. Jem was a study in how you could love someone entirely without understanding them at all. But most people were not Jem.
“But perhaps he only wants to know that there is a reason,” she was saying. Her gaze was fierce. Nothing stopped her arguing, he thought, or caring: in that way, she was like Jem: loss did not make her bitter, and betrayal did not beat down her faith. Unconsciously, she moved to draw her hand back, to gesture passionately, and he caught at it, slipping the glove off her hand. She gasped as if he had put his hands on her body, blood rising to stain her cheeks. Her bare, small hand, which curled like a dove inside his, went still. He lifted it to his mouth, his cheek, kissing her skin: brushing his lips across her knuckles, down to her wrist. He heard her cry out in a low voice, and lifted his head to see her sitting perfectly still, her hand held out, her eyes closed and her lips half-open.
He had kissed girls, other girls, when basic physical desire overcame common sense, in dark corners at parties or under the mistletoe. Quick, hurried kisses, most of them, although some surprisingly expert — where had Elspeth Mayburn learned how to do what she did with her teeth, and why had no one ever told her it wasn’t a good idea? — but this was different.
Before there had been controlled tension, a deliberate decision to give into what his body asked for, divorced from any other feeling. Cut free of any emotion at all. But this — this was heat flowering through his chest, shortening his breath, sending a tide of goosebumps over his skin. This was a feeling of pain when he let her hand go, a sickness of loss cured only when he pulled her toward him across the splintery wooden floor, his hands cupping the back of her neck as his lips descended on hers with equal parts tenderness and fierceness.
Her mouth opened under his, hesitant, and some corner of his mind cried out to him to slow his pace, that by any reasonable guess this was her first kiss. He forced his hands to slow down, to gently unclasp the fastenings in her hair and smooth the curls down over her shoulders and back, his fingertips tracing light patterns on her soft cheekbones, her bare shoulders. Her hair felt like warm silk running through his fingers and her body, pressed against his, was all softness. Her hands were light as feathers on the back of his neck, in his hair; when he drew her closer, she made a low sound against his mouth that nearly drove every last thought from his head. He began to bend her back toward the floor, moving his body over hers —
And froze. Panic rushed through his blood in a boiling flood as he saw the whole fragile structure he had built up around himself shatter, all because of this, this girl, who broke his control like nothing else ever had. He tore his mouth from her, pushing her away, the force of his terror nearly knocking her over. She stared at him through the tangled curtain of her hair, her face pale with shock.
“God in Heaven,” he whispered. “What was that?”
Her bewilderment was plain on her face. His heart contracted, pumping self-loathing through his veins. The one time, he thought. The only time —
“Tessa,” he said. “I think you had better go.”
“Go?” Her lips parted; they were swollen from his kisses. It was like looking at a wound he had inflicted, and at the same time, he wanted nothing more than to kiss her again. “I should not have been so forward. I’m sorry —”
“God.” The word surprised him; he had stopped believing in God a long time ago, and now he had invoked him twice. The pain on her face was almost more than he could bear, and not least because he had not intended to hurt her. So often, he intended to hurt and to wound, and this time he had not — not in the least — and he had caused more hurt than he could imagine. He wanted nothing more than to reach out and take her in his arms, not even to satisfy his desire but to impart tenderness. But doing so would only worsen the situation beyond imagining. “ Just leave me alone now,” he heard himself say. “Tessa. I’m begging you. Do you understand? I’m begging you. Please, please leave.”
Her reply came, finally, stiff with hurt and anger. “Very well,” she said, though it was clearly not. He chanced a look at her out of the corner of his eye: she was proud, she would not cry. She did not bother to gather up the hair clips he had scattered; she only rose to her feet and turned her back on him.
He deserved no better, he knew. He he had thrown himself at her with no regard for her reputation or the indecorousness of his passion. Jem would have thought of it. Jem would have been more careful of her feelings. And once upon a time, he thought, as her footsteps receded, so would he. But he no longer knew how to be that person. He had covered up that Will for so long with pretense that it was the pretense he reached for first, and not the reality. He dug his nails into the floorboards, welcoming the pain, for it was little compared to the pain of knowing that he had lost more than Tessa’s good opinion this evening. He had lost Will Herondale. And he did not know if he could ever get him back.
I M TEAM JEM!!! i know most people seem to be team will at the momemnt but that is likely to change when clockwork prince comes out as jem is a lot more in it. CA was focused on will but CP is more about jem so he will gain fans. Plus as cassie herself said "most readers want what the protagonist wants" In CA, tessa didnt think of jem in that way at all, only will, so naturally most people are team will.
Team Will ! Even though he sounds like a jerk and has a bad past; I think that when he opens up he might be an amazing person! I love Jem too but Will excites me! Plus, knowing that Will is British with black hair and blue eyes is a major plus :P
will may be "an amazing person" but that doesnt take asway the fact that he is a proper a-hole. Just because he is " beautiful on the inside" that doesnt mean he can treat people like shit just beacuse he feels sad or whatever.
I agree with you Jennifer Beaver even if you're annoying
me too. he doesnt have the right to take out his angst on others
he's not taking it on others. don't you guys see it? he DOESN'T want anybody to like him. clearly, he got his wish haha
And as I keep saying that doesn't make what hes doing any better. Whether hes faking it or not he still acts like a jerk.
yes, he acts like a jerk. and the problem is?
GOSH. WHY R U 2 GETTING SO TOUCHY BOUT IT?
exactly. sheesh, people. let it go guys.how about this.
jem and Will are both very hot, sexy, and amazing.
they are both kick-ass, but both have flaws.
and you have to admit- Brittany and Jenni- if Jem and Will are like brothers, there has to be something good Jem sees in Will.
And Meghana- You think will is amazing, so keep thinking that, and u don't have to let other people affect that.
God, I sound like my mother!
:)
^^ hahahaha that was cute :) sorry guys, I didn't mean to get all blah about it haha. but yes, i love Will :D lol
Meghana wrote: "yes, he acts like a jerk. and the problem is?"Um the fact that hes a jerk?
Whatever I'm over fighting now. Jems better. 'nuff said.
Brittany wrote: "Meghana wrote: "yes, he acts like a jerk. and the problem is?"Um the fact that hes a jerk?
Whatever I'm over fighting now. Jems better. 'nuff said."
indeed.
kay sorry for getting people all tensed and pissed off.. I love them both equally but there is just something about Will that I like more. I said that when he opens up he might be amazing. If he doesn't than ya he may be a total jerk.. and i agree with the ^ and ^^ done fighting.. wow..
Yupp, I agree with you Zaima... I'd really like to see Sophie and Jem end up together <3
?? do you not like Sophie? well... it IS possible that she could betray Tessa... hmmm let's see
sophie is a servant!!! (no offence) and why does the heroine always have to end up with the first guy, and the second has to end up with some random person; eg, bella didnt end up with jacob, rose didnt end up with adrian, clary didnt end up with simon (eventough i m team jace) :(
Ajia wrote: "sophie is a servant!!! (no offence) and why does the heroine always have to end up with the first guy, and the second has to end up with some random person; eg, bella didnt end up with jacob, rose ..."Omg I know right. Jem is a way better choice! Who would honestly pick a jerk like WILL.
Argh I just they end up with the unpredictable guy once who is almost always the better choice.
Brittany wrote: "Ajia wrote: "sophie is a servant!!! (no offence) and why does the heroine always have to end up with the first guy, and the second has to end up with some random person; eg, bella didnt end up with..."hey, hey, hey.
Deep breaths Brittany.
keep calm.
I have a question for you.
We never even reallly got to know Will in CA. How do you know that the Will we saw in CA, is in fact not the real Will at all. He put up a different personality to protect himself from others- or more accurately- protect others from himself. What if that last scene, where Will said all that crap to Tessa, never happened? Would you hate him less? What if in CP, we figure out who he really is, and what kind of tradegy he faced when he was a little kid. Would you feel pity for him? They say you can't judge a book by its cover. So maybe we can't judge Will by the arrogant self he portrays himself as. In CA, we just scratched the surface of who he really is. How do you know if the real Will, the one being protected by the walls he put up, might actually be like Jem? Will might be a jerk - in your opinion- on the outside, but what about the inside? What about the real Will that he hid from other people? How do you know that Will is a jerk, if you don't even know who he really is?
Food for thought.
Palak, you are my hero. haha but seriously, that was very well said (or should i say well written...)
Yes okay I don't think you get what I am saying. What I am saying is sure he might not mean it. BUT that doesn't change what he says. It doesn't change what he has done. Because in the end he has still done it whether he was faking it or not. Now I've talked to some people about this and they agree. How would you feel if you were treated like that? and then they said Oh but bro I was only joking. It doesn't work like that. The damage is done. I'm thinking about it from Tessa's POV or how someone would actually feel if they were treated like that personally.
Sure to a reader he seems amazing, hot bla bla. But I think Tessa shouldn't forgive him so easily. What he said was disgusting and hurtful. I think any normal person would be extremely offended and hurt whether he's "faking it" or not.
And I don't /hate/ him. I find him to be an interesting character. But I do not find him appealing at all.
mehh and I don't think you get what WE are saying. See, he said those things on purpose to create the damage. He WANTS damage. Yes, the damage is done. He doesn't want people to like him. From Tessa's point of view, yes he said all those mean things, and now she doesn't like him. In Will's mind, that's a good thing. He's willing to sacrifice his love and whatever he wants to save those he loves. I think it takes a bigger heart to hide his past to protect everyone, rather than to spill everything about your life...
BUT, that's just my opinion... it's funny how all my friends here are team Will, aand all your friends there are team Jem. May the best win!
Ohemactualj. Yes I know what you are assuming he is doing. And I honestly do not care. Because to me that doesn't come off as noble and good at all. And no he doesn't need to spill everything out about his life. There are other ways to go about things. How does wanting everyone to hate you come off as having a big heart? He isn't protecting everyone - he's protecting himself. What he did didn't protect Tessa - it hurt her. Yes, I know he wanted to, whatever. H
He really has no right to be such a pig. Because when you look at Jem who has been through A LOT and is DYING because of it. But is he being a jerk to everyone? No. If Will doesn't want anyone to like him then maybe he should just go away or learn to keep his mouth shut.
I guess we all feel really differently lol.
Obviously, I disagree with you... hahaWell, how can you be so sure that Will hasn't been through a lot. I actually think he's been through more than Jem, and I'm sure that Will is the one who will save Jem in the end. Also, I'm thinking that Tessa will actually end up with Jem, because Will may find out about Jem's feelings for Tessa, and he'll sacrifice his feelings so that Jem and Tessa can be together.
that's not what I want, really, because I want Will+Tessa and Jem+Sophie, but what's on top is a strong possibility.
I don't care if he's been through more. He's a dick. Jem is the one who's dying. Just because you have problems doesn't mean you can go around treating everyone like shit. And good I hope he does do that. Although I'd still think he's an idiot. And I'm really against Will and Tessa. I'm strongly against Men abusing Women in any form whether they mean it or not. I don't see how people can support them when he's so abusive.
i agree. men cannot just go around thinking they can treat a women however the hell they want just coz they are playing the bad boy. it's not fair on tessa. she deserves better than to be treated like that. jem is obviously the superior choice :)
Jenni ---running between the sunbeams--- wrote: "i agree. men cannot just go around thinking they can treat a women however the hell they want just coz they are playing the bad boy. it's not fair on tessa. she deserves better than to be treated l..."YEAH. He can't just take his problems out on everyone else. Especially to a woman!
Well, whatever Will's dark tourtured past is, it doesnt earn him the right to treat people like shit. If he doesnt want Tessa to like him, then there are better ways of doing things. Anyway, whether Will is an asshole or not, i'm still Team Jem <3 - cuz he is miles better!!
Meghana wrote: " I actually think he's been through more than Jem, and I'm sure that Will is the one who will..."thats not true. jem and his family were tortured by a demon and his parents died while he was left with a terminal disease. atleast will's family is still alive. he also doesnt have to worry about a disease hurting him physically and mentally all the time so how can u say that will has been through more than jem.
As for will being a jerk, i like him cuz he is funny, i dont hate him but still he hurts a lot of people no matter what his intentions are.
Lastly, i think that tessa's second power might be what saves jem.
I am totally Team Will! No doubt!! I love the sarcasm and the witt, he just sounds hot lol! Someone said that if Will and Tessa got together Jace wouldn't be born but I don't care haha we can pretend it all works out ;)
haha we'll see! it's not like we're writing the books for us to decide the story, lol. and plus, they're all fictional characters and they lived 130 years before us LOL
Palak (Dust and Shadows) wrote: "Brittany wrote: "Ajia wrote: "sophie is a servant!!! (no offence) and why does the heroine always have to end up with the first guy, and the second has to end up with some random person; eg, bella ..."can i hug you? LOL that was exactly what I was trying to prove, but you made it sound so legit XD
Ajia wrote: "Meghana wrote: " I actually think he's been through more than Jem, and I'm sure that Will is the one who will..."thats not true. jem and his family were tortured by a demon and his parents died w..."
how do you know that Will's parents aren't dead?
because theyre not. its mentioned in the book.
The Infernal Devices
Books mentioned in this topic
Clockwork Prince (other topics)City of Ashes (other topics)
Clockwork Prince (other topics)
