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Which typos and quirks are unforgivable?
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Sharon wrote: "Have we really resorted to "I know you are, but what am I"? And yo..."Sharon,
You have proven to me that you don't know everything there is to know about grammar.
I'm surprised that you haven't corrected me, when I have corrected you on:
1. Sweetie-pie.
Correction: Sweetie pie
2. I answered
Correction: I've answered
Jaimey wrote: "As I read this thread I wonder if all of this is caused by nothing more than a misunderstanding in definition. An expert is a person with a vast knowledge of a subject, not a person who knows every..."I don't think it's a matter of anything but one person being deliberately obtuse, to be perfectly honest. I do, however, appreciate your very nice attempt to pour oil on the waters. :-)
Lisa wrote: "No, you are obviously not a grammar expert. And right now you are just digging yourself a deeper hole. Have at. I gotta tell you though, I just got back from China, and it is COLD there right now."Lisa, you can't even tell me why I am not a grammar expert, but yet, you believe that editors know everything there is to know about grammar.
I rest my case!
Arch wrote: "Lisa, you can't even tell me why I am not a grammar expert"And she's predictable, to boot.
Those of us who have read your posts can plainly see that you are no grammarian. We can also plainly see that you believe yourself to be some kind of Speshul Snowflake(TM) who is above it all.
Do you know what editors call writers like you?
Reject form-letter recipients.
Arch wrote: "I'm surprised that you haven't corrected me, when I have corrected you on: "You were wrong on both counts, honey-ham.
I have corrected you at least once and others have done so several more times. Each time, you sneered and stamped your feet a little more about how you didn't need us to teach you how to write. You even boasted that you put your English teacher in her place (according to you), which definitely proves to me that you are a child.
If you are out of high school (which I doubt), it hasn't been for long.
Sharon wrote: "Those of us who have read your posts can plainly see that you are no grammarian. We can also plainly see that you believe yourself to be some kind of Speshul Snowflake(TM) who is above it all. Do you know what editors call writers like you?
Reject form-letter recipients."
Sharon,
I wonder why you didn't find your own errors in your book beforehand.
Now, I'm definitely done!
Lisa, you can't even tell me why I am not a grammar expert, but yet, you believe that editors know everything there is to know about grammar. Um...Well, looking at the above sentence, it doesn't even mean what you think it means. I don't know why you are not a grammar expert. You are the only person who can answer that question! But I'm guessing it's because for whatever reason you think you know better than anyone else and have not been willing to sit down and put in the time to really improve your craft. Am I close?
If what you meant to say was, "Show me the evidence to back up your assertion that I am not a grammar expert," I point to the italicized quote above.
Arch wrote: "I wonder why you didn't find your own errors in your book beforehand. "You know, little girl, this has all been gone over and over for you. Yet, you continue with your deliberate obtuseness.
The reason that there are editors in this world is that it is damned near impossible to proof your own work.
My book is 234 pages as typeset. It has more than 60 thousand words. My editor found *four* errors in all of that, and missed two. When you have written a manuscript of that length, had it purchased by a publisher, and have fewer than six errors in it, come back and talk to me. Until then, I gently suggest that you STFU and let the grownups talk.
I was reading this thread and it led me to a most wondrous discovery. If you click on a member's name or icon you will be directed to that person's profile page. At the very bottom of the page is a small link that says "block this member" (it's light grey text, so you have to be looking for it). If you click on it not only will you not receive updated when the "blocked" posts, but as you read through a thread anything posted by that person is hidden from you (you still have the option of clicking on the post to read if you choose). That link has done wonders for my blood pressure :)On the actual topic: incorrect word usage drives me nuts! I recently read a book where the author used the words "emphatic" and "empathic" interchangeably throughout the entire book. This wasn't the case of using a word in a new way, either... it was just embarrassingly obvious that the author didn't know what at least one of those words actually meant (and apparently neither did his editor). If you're going to take my money for something, I expect a quality product (or competent service) in return.
I recently read a book that is being touted as one of the best new novels for 2009 that is so full of errors. There are sentences throughout the book that have words missing and the punctuation is atrocious. It is a wonderful story, I'll admit, but the mistakes took a lot away from it.
Arch wrote: "There's a rule about starting a sentence with the word "And" and if I am wrong, by all means correct me."Quoted verbatim from "Guide to Grammar & Style" by Professor Jack Lynch of the English Dept. at Rutgers University:
But at the Beginning.
Contrary to what your high school English teacher told you, there's no reason not to begin a sentence with but or and; in fact, these words often make a sentence more forceful and graceful. They are almost always better than beginning with however or additionally. Beginning with but or and does make your writing less formal; — but worse things could happen to most writing than becoming less formal.
Note, though, that if you open with but or and, you usually don't need a comma: not "But, we did it anyway"; it's enough to say "But we did it anyway." The only time you need a comma after a sentence-opening conjunction is when you want to sneak a clause right between the conjunction and the rest of the sentence: "But, as you know, we did it anyway."
We discussed this at Amazon a few months ago, remember?
KarenH wrote: "Arch wrote: "There's a rule about starting a sentence with the word "And" and if I am wrong, by all means correct me."Quoted verbatim from "Guide to Grammar & Style" by Professor Jack Lynch of th..."
You are right on this, Arch. In fact, it's very common in journalism writing.
Just because grammar rules are broken, doesn't mean that it's right.I know that writers will agree that we break grammar rules. Well, this writer will agree that she breaks grammar rules.
I know that a lot of people don't like me to say that editors aren't grammar experts, but it's true.
When I say that editors aren't grammar experts, I am saying editors don't know everything there is to know about grammar. Writers don't know everything there is to know about grammar.
I've read recently, where people believe that English teachers can't be editors. What's the difference between my opinion and these people opinion?
A lot of people are too hard on writers. If they see an error in a book, they are blaming the writer. They don't care about the mistakes the editors make. They are bashing the authors in reviews, on boards, etc.
These people go around trying to get other people not to read Jane Doe's book. Well, the publishing company is listed in these books, yet, the readers aren't bashing the publishing company. They aren't trying to get people not to buy books published by a certain company.
We all make writing mistakes. I doubt that a lot of readers that are hard on authors, even know a lot about grammar.
As I have stated more than once - I have been writing for 22 years and yes, I make writing mistakes. I am not ashamed to say it.
Writing is my talent. Writing is not just something that I love to do. Talents are not exempted from improvements.
I know that I have people on here that doesn't like me and I don't care. I'm not here to be liked by anyone. I am here to converse with people, regardless if we disagree.
If someone wants to ignore me, by blocking me, then go for it. I'm still going to be Arch.
LuAnn wrote: "KarenH wrote: "Arch wrote: "There's a rule about starting a sentence with the word "And" and if I am wrong, by all means correct me."Quoted verbatim from "Guide to Grammar & Style" by Professor J..."
I was always taught not to use "and" or "but" to start a sentence, but I see it happen more and more; especially in informal writing. I had mentioned in another thread I would no longer read a certain author for that person seemed to start almost every sentence with an "and" or "but" and it drove me nuts, but I guess unless you're writing a literary piece, it has become accepted now. Argh! Go figure...
I think using "and," "but" and "then" work in moderation. I definitely have been guilty of overuse but have dialed it way down. That way, when you do start a sentence with one of them, it makes for a nice little punch.
I'll use "and" to start a sentence. Especially, if I have a heroine being sassy.
I do use 'and' and 'but' to start a sentence every once in a while, but mainly to add more emphasis.I once had a lady read a manuscript for me to catch typos and bad punctuation. She went through it with a red pen and scribbled out the few 'and' and 'but' I used to begin sentences. I tried to tell her it was accepted now, but she was taught old school and told me I was wrong, and there was no way I was going to convince her otherwise. Oh well:-)
It's still recommended not to use "and" or "but" to start a sentence. However, it's so commonplace anymore I don't think anyone notices. Also, if it helps break a long sentence into two more readable sentences, why not?
So what happen to your book Jewel? Did you put the "and" and "but" back in your book or took them out, because the editor didn't want them there?If I wanted something in my book. It would have to stay there.
Actually, it was published and the editor left them in. I guess you never know:-)
And, FYI, grammar books are edited by somebody, hopefully an expert.