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Nicholas Nickleby
Nicholas Nickleby - Group Read 6
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Nicholas Nickleby: Intro comments and Chapters 1 - 10
After reading the article about Bowes Academy and your comment, Claudia, I'm reminded of The Jungle and Upton Sinclair's exposure of the terrible working conditions and appalling practices of the meat-packing industry in America in the early 20th century. When Squeers admitted to Nicholas that Dotheboys Hall was in fact not a hall, I pictured him saying it out of the side of his mouth, with a smirk. "The fact is, [wink, sideways glance, smirk] it ain't a Hall."
Something else Squeers says that reveals his nature is his exclamation when Smike tells him he fell asleep at the fire. "Fire, what fire?" Using up coal for a fire... for shame!
I chuckled when I read that Squeers' papers were arranged in "picturesque confusion".
I was glad to see Nicholas' spirits improve by the end of the chapter and I hope his optimism continues: "He grew less desponding, and- so sanguine and buoyant is youth- even hoped that affairs at Dotheboys Hall might yet prove better than they promised. He was preparing for bed with something like renewed cheerfulness..."
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Oh yes! 😂 It's so theatrical - no wonder it was quickly converted to the stage by various hacks ... but more on that later, when we have more of the story under our belts. Until then, we must imagine Charles Dickens standing in front of his mirror, (as Lee reminded us his daughter Mamie recorded secretly watching), acting out the various characters' expressions and demeanours as they flew into his mind.
The epigraph for chapter 7 is ‘Mr and Mrs Squeers at Home.’ The initial suggestion as we read this chapter title is one of domestic bliss in benign surroundings. The word ‘home’ is packed with suggested comforts. I wonder if Dickens was not being sarcastic and wanted to play with the idea of appearance verses reality.Dotheboys is a place that initially appears to be a home of some comfort for the Squeers but it does not appear to offer any comfort, security, or respect for the students.
I laughed at Nicholas being called Knuckleboy, but then paused. Dickens loves to assign cratylic names to his characters. Could there be a suggestion that the schoolboys will be taught with the application of knuckles during their lessons? Nicholas will soon find out.
And now we discover the contents of the note that was passed from Newman Noggs to Nicholas. Noggs, we learn, is a decent, caring man who has offered his support to Nicholas in the future. I’m cheered by the probability we will see more of Noggs later in the novel.
Lastly, Smike. Oh my, but my heart goes out to him.
I’m struck by the thought that Noggs somehow knows some truth about Squeers’s school and that Nicholas might someday need his friendship or help. I wonder how he learned what we are just learning. Obviously there is an observant mind present there. And a good man.
I'm very slightly behind, not having had an opportunity to read much over the weekend, and have just now finished Chapter 6 with its two contrasting traveler's stories."The Five Sisters" - the dour man of the church is not an uncommon figure in literature, is he. :) I appreciated the quiet rebellion of the sisters, led by their youngest, Alice, determining to live a joyful life rather than one fixated on (literally!) sepulchral thoughts.
"The Baron" - the spirit was quite a striking figure! This would have been a much different story if he'd been better at his job...
Between the two, I liked Five Sisters better, but I'm a melancholic at heart. :D
A couple of minor, common themes between the two stories are conflict between men and women, and the idea that a happy life is possible if you don't give up on it.
Thanks to Bridget for the excellent guest posts! I visited York long ago, and I'm sure I visited York Minster - its exterior looks very familiar.
It wasn't apparent to me very early on, but I see why others have complained about the Audible production of NN. When you look at the play list, each segment is very close to being 1 hour, 15 minutes long, and there's been little or no attempt to make section breaks match with chapter endings. How weirdly arbitrary.
Sue wrote: "I’m struck by the thought that Noggs somehow knows some truth about Squeers’s school and that Nicholas might someday need his friendship or help. I wonder how he learned what we are just learning. ..."This is clearly related to the obvious questions, which I don't think anyone pointed out yet, as to:
1) how Ralph was able to make the suggestion regarding Nicholas applying for the assistant position at Dotheboy's so quickly after his father's death, and
2) what leverage he might have had (and how) over Squeers to make his demand stick!
I have also been speculating on what Ralph said to Squeers to make him hire Nicholas. I'm sure he intends to use Nicholas' family in some way to make more money for himself, but at this point I cannot figure out how he intends to do that or what he did to get Squeers' cooperation.
Beth wrote: "I'm very slightly behind, not having had an opportunity to read much over the weekend, and have just now finished Chapter 6 with its two contrasting traveler's stories."The Five Sisters" - the do..."
Beth, concerning the idea that happiness is possible if you don't give up on it, I would go further and say that he is also telling us to make choices that make us happy when given the chance.
That's definitely true for the five sisters, Katy!
It seems to have been fortunate (or unfortunate perhaps) timing for Nicholas that found his family seeking help from his uncle when Squeers was in London looking for payments and more students. His uncle certainly knew where to find Nicholas a position.
I have a writer friend who says coincidence is how stories begin. I'm not convinced that's true all the time, but it seems to be the case here.
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She also reminds me a little of the character "Mrs. Malaprop" in Richard Brinsley Sheridan's 1775 play The Rivals, who misspeaks (to comic effect) by using words which do not have the meaning that she intends, but which sound similar to words that do. In this case though, perhaps Mrs Squeers means exactly what she says!
Somewhere Charles Dickens (as narrator) says that he is not sure how Mrs Squeers would have spelt Nicholas's name, but that she had her own unique internalised system for doing so, which is what put Mrs Malaprop and malapropisms into my mind. 😆
Bionic Jean wrote: "Peter - I love your comment about "Knuckleboy"! Mrs Squeers seem to delight in giving people insulting names, which will put them in their place (we can look out for this!) but as you say, this one..."I'm not sure that I'd call Mrs Squeers' use of the name "Knuckleboy" a malapropism as that gives it the air of an unintended error attributable to her poor understanding of words and the language in general. I got the impression that this was much more a case of absolutely intentional venom and hatred. In that case, despite Mrs Squeers' less than stellar ability with words, one could attribute her with a degree of cleverness in her bitterness.
No sooner is he married than his wife demands that he send away his friends. This is the first of many demands, and gradually the baron becomes a hen-pecked husband. They have twelve children. I'm lagging behind with the comments. I did enjoy the second story better than the first probably because of the humor and a tinge of the supernatural. I'm a sucker for ghost stories. I have to say in Bridget's summary she made the above quoted observation. I had to snort when reading it, because what came to mind is that the Baron wasn't so henpecked that it drove him from the marriage bed- they had TWELVE children!!
CHAP 7. I was happy to get back to the story and darn did Dickens make one wait until the end to reveal Nobbs letter! But before that I was struck by the gloom of the place and felt that atmosphere was also an emotional one with the obvious lack of comfort for the boys and what we will learn of their treatment. Nicholas was so desolate he lost his appetite after a long trip! And Smike, someone else mentioned that he pulled at the heartstrings, and so he does. From taking advantage of the fire for warmth instead of staying out in the cold ( where he spends most of his time I expect), wearing of old and illfitting clothes, to his anxious and timid expression at the papers, as if with a sickly hope that one among them might relate to him . As Nicholas surmises the lokk was a painful one for it told a long and very sad history. Dare I say that it made me shed a tear?
Noggs' letter. A revelation and a curosity.
Yes, Chris that part of the Grogzwig marriage appears to be working quite well, perhpas too well LOL. I'm glad everyone enjoyed the side trip in my voice for the two stories. I was just happy to give Jean a little break. It's a lot of work putting these readings together!
About Chapter 7 . . . it seems to me that Smike and Nicholas are the same age, or within a year of each other. Dickens might be setting them up as foils of one another. One boy raised with love, the other . . . well, sadly not. Poor Smike has had such a rough childhood. I feel so bad for him. The way Dickens describes what he's wearing, makes him seem almost comical. The clothes of little boy, with the boots of a farmer and "round his neck, a tattered child's frill, only half concealed by a coarse man's neckerchief". If his situation wasn't so pitiful, we might find him comical.
Bridget wrote: "it seems to me that Smike and Nicholas are the same age, or within a year of each other. Dickens might be setting them up as foils of one another. One boy raised with love, the other . . . well, sadly not. Poor Smike has had such a rough childhood."I just had a notion for a future plot twist, admittedly far-fetched, but ... Having said that, I'll just make note of the fact that I had the idea for far future discussion reference. If I'm right, I'd be worried about a major plot spoiler. If I'm wrong, well, suffice it to say it was just a fanciful idea that occurred in response to a couple of questions we've raised about the first few chapters.
Paul wrote: I just had a notion for a future plot twist, admittedly far-fetched, but ... Having said that, I'll just make note of the fact that I had the idea for far future discussion reference. If I'm right, I'd be worried about a major plot spoiler. If I'm wrong, well, suffice it to say it was just a fanciful idea that occurred in response to a couple of questions we've raised about the first few chapters.It is fun to contemplate how this story will unfold, isn't it? I like making predictions as well, and when I made predictions while reading Great Expectations and Bleak House I was wrong. So, every day I look forward to reading another chapter in Nicholas' saga and enjoy every twist that comes along.
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
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Yes, I was suggesting that in the latter part of my comment; that she "means exactly what she says".
It's entirely possible that Mrs Squeers feigns an assumed "forgetfulness" in her memory, in order to coin a vicious name. "Knuckle" does make us think she wants him to use his knuckles, (as Peter suggested) and of course calling him "boy" puts him firmly in his place i.e. under her, and almost on the same level as the boys.
But in chapter 9 Charles Dickens will confirm that Mrs Squeers frequently uses the wrong word; there's a priceless example there! Sorry - you couldn't have known that Paul, so perhaps the first time she says "Knuckleboy" it is a little ambiguous.
And it does remind me of Mrs Malaprop, but Charles Dickens has made Mrs Squeers a glorious monster, as well as a comic cameo.
I appreciate you not divulging a possible future plot twist, thank you Paul - you'll have to tell us if you were right when we get there! 😆 There are certainly going to be many twists and turns ...
I'm finally caught up with the chapters and the comments. This Chapters 6 and 7 have been so interesting.Bridget, thank you so much for your excellent summaries and comments. And thank you, too, for the pictures of the stained-glass windows of the Minster of York. Somehow, I had pictured in my mind that the sisters had had their framed embroideries encased between panes of glass. So I totally misunderstood that, and was amazed at the actual size of the real windows. I bet they are something to see!
I absolutely loved the story "The Baron of Grogzwig". To me, it offered such comic relief from Nicholas Nickleby as well as "The Five Sisters of York". Bridget, I loved those two illustrations of the Baron conversing with Death. That was such a fabulous scene, and oh my, when Death "plunged the stake violently back into his body, uttered a frightful howl, and disappeared?" That was Edgar Allan Poe stuff!
Kathleen, a bell went off in my head when I read your comment: I’m thinking about Paul’s statement, above, about waiting a month for the continuation of the book. If this was the last chapter for the month, I don’t think I would be interested enough to buy the next issue. I wondered why this chapter was twice as long as the previous chapters we have read. Maybe Dickens felt a little guilty about injecting digressions into his story, so he decided to throw not just one, but two stories in that chapter to make up for it.
Chapter 7: The Squeers are just awful people! That quote you pulled out in Message 340, Jean, also touched me deeply. The Squeers dehumanized these children. When Squeers and Nicholas were talking about how bitterly cold it was riding in the open country for three miles, I couldn't imagine how much those children must have suffered. I am thrilled that Dickens was instrumental in shutting down these horrible "schools."
I loved to see that picture of Bowes Academy (aka Dotheboys Hall). It definitely was grim looking. And also enlightening. Here in the States, a one-story house is just that - a house with one floor at ground level. In the States, Bowes Academy would be called a two-story house. Reading with the Dickensians! is always such a pleasure to fully understand commonly-used terms with different meanings (as we discussed earlier with the muffins ☺️).
One last thing that popped into my head concerned the part where Nicholas Nickleby was reading the letter that Newman Noggs wrote him. Seeing the two names side by side, I wondered why Dickens introduced two characters with the same first and last initial. Just odd to me...
Since I have read this book before, I will be careful with my comments. I read it several years ago so many details are lost in the fog of time, but I really want to avoid any possible spoilers. So I may be quiet often.
As predicted we have fallen a little behind and I have skimmed through the comments as cursorily as possible to avoid spoilers, so apologies if someone has already noted this, but I wanted to mention it before my sieve-brain forgot.A fun observation that has come out of reading this aloud with my husband is that the Yorkshire accent has clearly changed dramatically since the beginning of the nineteenth century. My husband does a very good Yorkshire but trying to read the guard's words from the beginning of ch. 6 was throwing him into all sorts of muddles as he couldn't make the accent fit with the spellings. He ended up somewhere between West Country and Geordie!
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This not at all your husband's fault Bethany Beth, but Charles Dickens's! We can tell from old recordings that the accent has not changed much at all.
Cockney was familiar to him. So although in his writings Charles Dickens's phonetic attempts at the cockney accent are largely reproduced correctly, and as it still is (except for the "w" instead of "v" which was an affectation for just a couple of decades in the 1800s), his attempts at Northern accents are nowhere near as good.
Charles Dickens confuses Yorkshire with Derbyshire, and Geordie (now Tyneside and Teesside) quite often. I was talking about this with Bridget! e.g. "gang whom" is an abomination: a mixture of the Geordie "gang" for go and the Yorkshire "home" with the stress on the "o" from the back of the throat. (Geordies say" yem" for home.)
It's possible the coach driver had a mixture of accents, but I'm afraid there are more wince-worthy ones coming up. I'll try to transliterate and put them in my summaries, with no italics, so you can tell. (Or you can ask, since I grew up in Yorkshire 😊 and my husband's family now live in Teesside.)
After all, however observant Charles Dickens was - and I'm sure he used his own invented shorthand to jot things down - his brief preparatory visit to Yorkshire with Hablot Knight Browne will have been pretty much the first time he encountered this accent, unlike us, surrounded by many accents in the media.
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I like your observation of the initials of Nicholas Nickleby and Newman Noggs being identical. It also makes me wonder about Peter's comment that Charles Dickens loved cratylic names. Does "New Man" also somehow speak a truth?
The difference in British and American use of storeys is worth pointing out, thank you, as it will come up several times, for instance when people go upstairs. (Actually stairs are often a motif we need to watch too!)
In Britain, we call the floor on a level with the street the ground floor. So up one flight of stairs (or a split one) to the next floor is up to the the first floor/storey. Americans (and Canadians perhaps?) just need to mentally subtract one for each storey.
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Thank you 😊 Although ... I think several of us are in the same position, and we just have to do our best. Please don't feel you must stay quiet "just in case" - that seems such a shame! If there is anything which is a definite spoiler I would delete it, (with no bad feelings either side I hope!) and preserve the content to send back to the poster in case they wanted to repost an edited version.
Someone it's difficult to know which nuances we pick up when, which is why my comment about malapropism would have been better following ch 9 ... but we do our best with the subtleties. Another example would be foreshadowing, but there is not much of that in this novel, as Charles Dickens often didn't know where he was going in detail!
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Chapter 8: Of the Internal Economy of Dotheboys Hall
Even though Nicholas only had a hard chair to sleep in, two hundred and odd miles in a carriage in severe weather, has led to him oversleeping. Mr. Squeers wakes him up the next morning, saying that it is past 7 o’clock. He tells Nicholas that he won’t be able to wash because the pump is frozen:
“So you must be content with giving yourself a dry polish till we break the ice in the well, and can get a bucketful out for the boys.”
Mrs. Squeers is irritated that she can’t find the big spoon that she gives doses of brimstone and treacle with. Squeers says it is to “purify the boys’ bloods now and then” but his wife want to be quite plain about it:
“They have the brimstone and treacle, partly because if they hadn’t something or other in the way of medicine they’d be always ailing and giving a world of trouble, and partly because it spoils their appetites and comes cheaper than breakfast and dinner.”
Smike is called to help find the spoon, and is pushed and boxed about, until he suggests that the spoon might be in her pocket. Since it is indeed there, Smike get his ears boxed again, for contradicting Mrs Squeers after she had explicitly said she didn’t have it.
“‘A most invaluable woman, that, Nickleby,’ said Squeers … ‘I don’t know her equal… —always the same bustling, lively, active, saving creetur that you see her now.’
Nicholas sighed involuntarily at the thought.“
Squeers continues to praise his wife to Nicholas, as a constant woman who does more things for the boys than most mothers do. Nicholas agrees that they would not.
The school room is across the yard, at the back of the house. When they go in, Nicholas finds it hard to make sense of what he sees as it is so crowded. The room is bare and dirty with rickety and ink-stained furniture. Most of the window panes are missing and covered with paper, and the walls are stained and discoloured.
But the sight of the “young noblemen” were what made Nicholas look on in dismay:
“Pale and haggard faces, lank and bony figures, children with the countenances of old men, deformities with irons upon their limbs, boys of stunted growth, and others whose long meagre legs would hardly bear their stooping bodies, all crowded on the view together;”
Sometimes it was evident by the ugliness or distortion that their parents had taken an unnatural aversion to these children, and abandoned them at a place where they never have to see them. Sometimes it was simply that:
“young lives … from the earliest dawn of infancy, had been one horrible endurance of cruelty and neglect … There were little faces which should have been handsome, darkened with the scowl of sullen, dogged suffering; there was childhood with the light of its eye quenched, its beauty gone, and its helplessness alone remaining; … what an incipient Hell was breeding here!”
All Nicholas’s hopes of doing some good fade when he sees these boys. Their eyes reflect starvation, dejection, loneliness, and malice.
Mrs. Squeers administers the brimstone and treacle:
“The Internal Economy of Dotheboys Hall - Phiz (Hablot K. Browne) - 1838
“Mrs. Squeers dispenses a delicious Compound” - Harry Furniss - 1910
The clothes of the new arrivals have been taken away from them and given to young Wackford: the son of Mr. and Mrs. Squeers. The new boys have been put in old, ill-fitting clothes.
They eat a meagre breakfast. The boys are silent and motionless, lacking the energy to move. Master Squeers enjoys treading on their toes with his new boots.
Mr. Squeers shows Nicholas how they teach the children “English spelling and philosophy”. The children learn vocabulary from an old book, one book shared between about 8 children. He calls some forward “half-a-dozen scarecrows, out at knees and elbows, one of whom placed a torn and filthy book beneath his learned eye.”
When Squeers is told one boy is cleaning the back-parlour window, he says:
“‘So he is, to be sure,’ rejoined Squeers. ‘We go upon the practical mode of teaching, Nickleby; the regular education system. C-l-e-a-n, clean, verb active, to make bright, to scour. W-i-n, win, d-e-r, der, winder, a casement. When the boy knows this out of book, he goes and does it. It’s just the same principle as the use of the globes.’”
“Nicholas sees Squeers giving an “English and Philosophy” lesson - Fred Barnard - 1875
And the “lesson” continues this way, with various boys reciting the meaning of a word, and then being sent to perform a job for Squeers, based on what it represents. One learns the word horse, and then Mr. Squeers orders him to tend to his horse, another is sent to tend the garden after learning the word “bottinney, noun substantive, a knowledge of plants”. Squeers then tells Nicholas to listen to another group of boys read their lesson. This is followed by a meagre lunch.
Squeers then calls the boys together to tell them he has just returned from London. The boys respond with feeble cheers, as is expected of them. He tells the few students who have parents who are interested in them, that he had told their loved ones that they were doing marvellously. The parents were so pleased, he continues, that they saw no reason to remove the boys from the school. Those few students look upset.
Squeers looks grim saying “Bolder’s father was two pound ten short.” He calls the boy forward, looking for some way to punish him. He then expresses disgust on seeing warts on the boy’s hand, and canes him until his arm is tired. When he doesn’t stop crying, Squeers tells Smike to puts him outside the door.
A few boys get letters, and Squeers reads them out loud. Any money that is sent with them is confiscated, with a reason given. Another boy is punished for being discontented at the school. Any clothing that is sent is given to his son:
“young Squeers … would appear indeed to have had most accommodating limbs, since everything that came into the school fitted him to a nicety. His head, in particular, must have been singularly elastic, for hats and caps of all dimensions were alike to him.”
After dark there is another small meal and Nicholas is left alone, depressed and self-degraded by what he has witnessed. He loathes being an accomplice to it. However, he writes a cheerful letter to his mother and sister. He does not want to anger his uncle, and he consoles himself into thinking he might be able to do some good there. He worry worries about what Kate’s situation will be like, especially considering her youth and beauty. He believes that his uncle tricked him out of dislike between them, but he hopes that the uncle is softer in his feelings towards his sister. Also she has their mother and the simple Miss Le Creevy to protect her.
He notices that Smike is tending the fire, and as Smike shrinks away, expecting a blow, Nicholas speaks kindly to him:
“‘You need not fear me, …Are you cold?’”
Smike says he is used to it, and then bursts into tears, grateful for Nicholas’s compassion.
He seems to wander in his thoughts, and Nicholas tries to “rouse the poor half-witted creature to reason” as Smike talks of his sadness and suffering.
Smike tells Nicholas that the boy who died at the school saw friendly faces from home talking to him around his bed, just as he was dying. However, Smike doesn’t believe there is anyone who will talk to him on his death bed:
“Pain and fear, pain and fear for me, alive or dead. No hope, no hope!”
“Nicholas comforts Smike” - Fred Barnard - 1875
Nicholas has a heavy heart as he goes to his dirty and crowded dormitory.
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Illustrations
I often think that the English artist Harry Furniss’s illustrations are the most artistic, and here we can see his excellent caricaturing as well. But we must remember that Hablot Knight Browne had no idea where this story was going, and moreover had been instructed by Charles Dickens which passage(s) to illustrate. Often, later artists’ works bear an uncanny resemblance to his, as if Phiz somehow set the prototype for e.g. Mr Pickwick.
I've placed them together, so that here we can see that even 72 years later, and with a completely free hand on what to illustrate, Harry Furniss chose the same scene, and pictured from exactly the same angle!
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My favourite quotation from this chapter?
Well the dialogue is so hilarious and memorable that I (and others here, probably!) can quote parts of it by heart! Mrs Squeers dispensing the brimstone and treacle is a favourite scene, and has gone down in history, just as scenes have from Oliver Twist when he asks for more in the workhouse, even for those who do not know the books.
But a quotation from that scene struck me anew:
“And yet this scene, painful as it was, had its grotesque features, which, in a less interested observer than Nicholas, might have provoked a smile.”
Isn’t that what we feel, over and over again? The facts are terrible indeed, but we laugh!
Plus a short favourite then; a sarcastic comment from the narrator that:
“young Squeers … would appear indeed to have had most accommodating limbs, since everything that came into the school fitted him to a nicety. His head, in particular, must have been singularly elastic, for hats and caps of all dimensions were alike to him.”
This chapter bursts with life; with both comicality and terrible unspeakable images. It needs no more comment from me!
Thank you Jean for your summary and expertise on the illustrations.To be honest, I am barely able to smile at this glimpse into this Inferno of Dante. It looks like a painting by Hieronymus Bosch and I can imagine how Nicholas is feeling as a newcomer in this netherworld, where unwanted children, some of them disabled, are taken the few things they still have, the little money or modest outfits or shoes their families are sending. Even the content of the letters adressed to them is distorted by Mr Squeer. What a bunch of Thénardiers!
Not to mention the appallingly basic curriculum at this self-proclaimed school, as distorted as everything else...
Interestingly - or fatally - we are hearing for the third time (if I do not mistake) of that poor boy who recently died in this ignominious place. Poor Smike cannot (understandably) overcome that, nor can he imagine that someone is not going to beat him.
Jean, thank you for your excellent summaries.I was wondering what Mrs Squeer's medicine "brimstone and treacle" was. Brimstone is a type of sulfur, an anti-oxidant which can also cause an upset stomach. Treacle is a sugary syrup similar to molasses which was a source of essential minerals. (Mary Poppin's "spoonful of sugar" was probably treacle.) For more about the beneficial and harmful qualities of this medication, see this article:
https://theirownmedicine.com/unraveli...
Bionic Jean wrote: "Shirley - I enjoyed your comment a lot, and yes, good thought about Edgar Allan Poe. The two authors admired each other's work. And I'm so pleased you are enjoying our visual addit..."Yes indeed. The initials NN of both Nicholas Nickleby and Newman Noggs could well mean more than just chance. It is never a bad idea to pause a second and think about how/why Dickens gave the names he did to his characters.
This chapter presents a skill in which few authors can match Dickens. By stepping back, we realize this chapter is very mean-spirited, brutal, horrid, demeaning, and yet Dickens makes it rather amusing, funny, and even fun. Dotheboys is NOT, in any way a place to be, especially for children who seem to be orphaned, neglected and even tossed away by their parents. And yet, I found the chapter tickled me in places. Then my mind went back to ‘Oliver Twist,’ and I could almost hear the phrase ‘please sir, I want more.’ What brilliant writing.
As to the naming and numbering of floors in a building. Here in Canada, like so many other facts and spellings and assorted trivia, our naming of floors follows at times either English or American tradition, seemingly without much logic or consistency. Main floors are often called ground floors and above them may be called the first or the second floor.
I desperately want Nicholas to be able to be a light for these boys who live in darkness daily. It’s interesting that Squeers agreed to take on an outsider that he wasn’t certain would go along with his schemes. This is going to make for an interesting future for Nicholas. He’s wise now to his uncle’s scheming and is concerned about what. Kate’s situation will be. Could it be worse?I see a potential friendship in Nicholas and Smike. That poor boy. Just listening to his commentary about having no hope just breaks my heart. What will Nicholas do now that he is here and wise to its truth?
There were so many excellent quotes in this chapter. I highlighted quite a few. The descriptions of the boys standing up looking like scarecrows comes to mind.
Lori wrote: " It’s interesting that Squeers agreed to take on an outsider that he wasn’t certain would go along wit..."Again, it has to be because Ralph had some sort of leverage to be able to force him to do so. But what?
Looking back a bit, Peter wrote "I laughed at Nicholas being called Knuckleboy, but then paused. Dickens loves to assign cratylic names to his characters."I cannot recall the last time I encountered that wonderful word cratylic (of intriguing Roman origin)!
Although Dickens was a novelist, he undoubtedly was blessed with the soul of a caricaturist. Being the creator of a character gave him the exclusive opportunity of defining not only each of his characters’ physical appearance, behavior and mannerisms but also their personality in all of its complexity. And to round out the picture, he used his instincts for suggestive phrasing, association, sounds and colors to assign each character a memorable name that reinforced the picture.
I’m reminded of the tradition that once existed in aboriginal cultures of not assigning a person’s given name (or sometimes spirit name) until their personality emerged in early adulthood.
And Peter, you continue to trigger peculiar recollections. Re the naming of floors, I'm reminded of attending an event in Québec with a colleague from Jamaica who wondered if the floor designated in the elevator as RC might have been reserved for Roman Catholics!Such is the powere of suggestion.
This not at all your husband's fault Bethany Beth, but Charles Dickens'..."That's so interesting Jean, thank you for clearing that up!
I can't help but think about Joe in Great Expectations now. I could hear his voice so clearly in my head when I was reading him, but I wonder now if the "accent" I was reading was anything like accurate, or whether it was another weird hybrid.
Either way, I feel it adds something to the characters.
After Nicholas's reaction to Squeers's charade of "letters" and his late night encounter with Smike, I sense an impending conflict between Nicholas and Squeers. Offering any sort of comfort to the boys will not sit well with Squeers and even less so with Mrs. Squeers, who already seems unhappy with the presence of Nicholas, a fellow she may not be able to bully so easily. Trouble is brewing, and the entire tone of this chapter seems to grow darker.
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Thank you Connie 😊 - we seem to be in for a few longish chapters at the moment (eeek!)... thank you too for the definition of Brimstone and treacle.
Peter and Jim - that sounds so confusing about the storeys - and what is RC, please?
I'm afraid I had to look up "Thénardiers" Claudia. So for others who have also never read Victor Hugo's Les Miserables, they are a couple of fictional characters. Yes, sometimes we are just overwhelmed with the horror of it all, aren't we. And I'm glad you're enjoying the illustrations 😊
Bethany Beth, yes inaccurate as it is, I too think Dickens's quirky phonetics add something to it! 😆
Paul and Lori - I have to admit that I can't see any other necessary motive for Squeers taking on Nicholas, than Nicholas's willingness to work basically just for his keep! We were told that the £5 a year might not ever materialise, and is worth very little - a pittance - even compared with a labouring job.
For that pittance, Squeers has an educated young gentleman on his staff and under his control, which looks very good for his so-called "school". A second strong impulse is that Nicholas is willing to do the job because his uncle has promised to look after his sister and mother, and find respectable work for Kate, if he accepts it.
So I can't see any conspiracy here ... though I strongly suspect Ralph Nickleby knew what sort of school would advertise "no holidays", and was full of glee in sending Nicholas (whom he hates) to it. The customer who met Squeers in the inn, to send his 2 new pupils, could also tell what sort of place it was, and he had only seen the advert.
Lori - I have the same reactions as you to this chapter. 🤔
Bionic Jean wrote: "and what is RC, please?"Rez de chaussée - French for ground floor!
My response to chapter 8 was much like Claudia's. Despite the many clever turns of phrase, I had trouble finding much actual humor in it.Lori wrote: "I desperately want Nicholas to be able to be a light for these boys who live in darkness daily."
Being the nice prison warden won't change the miserable, corrupt system that Nicholas is working within. He recognizes this himself right away:
...but when he recollected that, being there as an assistant, he actually seemed--no matter what unhappy train of circumstances had brought him to that pass--to be the aider and abettor of a system which filled him with honest disgust and indignation, he loathed himself, and felt, for the moment, as though the mere consciousness of his present situation must, through all time to come, prevent his raising his head again.This was the most striking quote of the chapter for me. I'm curious what he might be able to do. He seems rather stuck at the moment.
Jean: Victor Hugo described the Thénardiers as "Cunning (he) married to rage (she)". This couple was in no way monolithic, as he was scheming and plotting, whereas she was a sheer brute, beating Cosette for no reason, while their offspring tried to go their way, though in different manners.Even if most French have not read Les
Misérables, "Les Thénardier" (no "s" in French) have passed into the common journalistic language, describing any criminal or abusive couples in case of family brutality or characterising even, by extension, prominent couples suspected of fraud.
Beyond all comparisons in world literature, such female protagonists seem to be recurrent in the 19th century. Mr Squeer is advertising for his spouse as a matronly benevolent, even motherly figure, as an asset for his "school" and once boys are there, she proves to be as fierce or even worse than her husband.
Claudia wrote: "Jean: Victor Hugo described the Thénardiers as "Cunning (he) married to rage (she)". This couple was in no way monolithic, as he was scheming and plotting, whereas she was a sheer br..."Claudia, I am a bit over halfway in my first reading of Les Misérables and I knew exactly who you were refer to in your post. I think it is a perfect comparison of these two couples. I chuckled at your comment!
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Rez de chaussée - French for ground floor!"
Thank you Paul! I was way off beam there - should have thought of French, but the nearest I got was "Roof Conservatory"! 😂
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Oh yes Beth N - Thank you for drawing our attention to that one. It is a sobering thought about the situation and also shows the basically honourably nature of our hero, Nicholas.
Claudia - Thank you so much for your very full description! I feel as though I fully understand now 😊 What a great parallel.
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The Squeers family leave for their own fireside. Their daughter Fanny (who is 23) has just returned from a visit to her friend Tilda, and doesn’t know about Nicholas.
Mr. Squeers asks his wife what she thinks of Nicholas, and she says:
“Oh! that Knuckleboy … I hate him.”
She will not give a reason why at first, but finally says:
“Because he’s a proud, haughty, consequential, turned-up-nosed peacock … a nasty stuck-up monkey.”
Her husband reminds her that Nicholas is cheap, but Mrs. Squeers doesn’t see why they need him—which she says makes him an expense they don’t need. After all, he could advertise “Education by Mr. Wackford Squeers and able assistants,” without having any assistants. However, Mr. Squeers hired Nicholas because he wanted somebody under him. Mrs. Squeers warns him that Nicholas looked ”as black as thunder” all the time Squeers was beating young Bolder.
Miss Fanny Squeers listens to all this carefully, and questions the hungry servant, who praises:
“his beautiful dark eyes, and his sweet smile, and his straight legs—upon which last-named articles she laid particular stress; the general run of legs at Dotheboys Hall being crooked”
And Fanny determines to see this young man for herself.
Miss Squeers goes to have a look at Nicholas the next day, pretending to need a pen mended:
“Fanny Squeers Makes a Pass at The Peacock Usher - ‘Oh! as soft as possible, if you please.’” - Fred Barnard - 1875
She makes a great show of being embarrassed to find her father not there, which makes Nicholas smile in spite of himself. When she drops the pen on the floor, they bump heads in retrieving it, and all the boys laugh aloud:
“being positively for the first and only time that half-year.”
Fanny decides that she is in love with Mr Nickleby. The narrator tells us that this is due to her best friend getting engaged at eighteen, yet at twenty-three she is still single. She lost no time in telling her friend, rushing to her friend’s house, and revealing how;
“she was—not exactly engaged, but going to be—to a gentleman’s son—(none of your corn-factors, but a gentleman’s son of high descent)—who had come down as teacher to Dotheboys Hall … indeed, as Miss Squeers more than once hinted, induced, by the fame of her many charms, to seek her out, and woo and win her.”
Fanny then relates all sorts of things, pretending that Nicolas had said them and adds how her parents disapprove of him. Tilda says how much she would like to see him, so Fanny invites her friend Matilda and her intended, John, to have tea with her and Nicholas.
Mys Squeers was due to collect three new boys in two days’ time, and Squeers made a habit of going to the Inn when she was not there, so he readily agreed to Fanny having friends in for tea on that day, and told Nicholas he was expected to take his tea in the parlour that evening, at five o’clock.
Tilda arrives, and the two young women dress up in their finery and do each other’s hair. Fanny wears many articles of clothing and styled hair pieces “which were to be as so many arrows to the heart of Nicholas”.
They sit in the parlour waiting for the two young men to arrive. When Nicholas arrives Fanny says:
“‘Father don’t tea with us, but you won’t mind that, I dare say.’ (This was said archly.)”
Nicholas is surprised to find Mr and Mrs Squeers not present, but the narrator explains that nothing affects him much at present. He does not see why he should make himself agreeable, so looks out of the window and sighs. However Tilda is very impressed by the young man’s genteel manners towards her.
When Matilda mentions that Nicholas and Fanny can behave just as if they were alone, Nicholas laughs at how preposterous the idea of being in love with Fanny is. He also can’t help laughing at the two silly girls’ behaviour and appearance.
John Brodie arrives, and the two young men greet each other courteously. However, when John refers to the “old woman being away”, with his mouth full and follows it with a comment about Nicholas not getting bread a butter every night with a knowing grin on his face, Nicholas objects. Further remarks make Nicholas angrily say that the miller’s remarks are offensive, and he also insults John’s intelligence. Tilda also objects so John easily gives her a kiss, and says he doesn’t care about it, and to just carry on.
Fanny begins to cry, and Matilda tries to get Nicholas to console her alone. Nicholas finally realises that he is presumed to be “keeping company” with her. When she fails to persuade him, Tilda:
“smil[es] a little though, for she was pretty, and a coquette too in her small way, and Nicholas was good-looking, and she supposed him the property of somebody else, which were all reasons why she should be gratified to think she had made an impression on him.”
She suggests playing cards, but Nicholas chooses Tilda as his partner, making Fanny jealous of her friend and invoking John’s resentment. Tilda plays up to this, and says flirtatiously (and ambiguously):
“I should like to have you for a partner always…”
“Dang my bones and body, if I stan’ this ony longer.” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875 (Harper Bros. New York Household Edition)
Matilda starts criticising Fanny’s appearance, getting back at Fanny for putting on airs about marrying better than she is to. Nicholas’s compliments gratify her ego, and it makes her fiancé aware that other men find her attractive.
Matilda and Fanny get into a fight. Miss Squeers cries over losing her friend. In the end Nicholas is confused by the whole thing and walks off groping his way through the boys back to his own room, thinking:
“This is one consequence … of my cursed readiness to adapt myself to any society in which chance carries me … I was glad … to grasp at any relief from the sight of this dreadful place, or the presence of its vile master. I have set these people by the ears, and made two new enemies, where, Heaven knows, I needed none. Well, it is a just punishment for having forgotten, even for an hour, what is around me now!’”
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The card game they are playing is “Speculation”, a game in which trumps are bought and sold. This is quite ironic, given that Nicholas's father lost all his money in speculation, along with hundreds of others during the 1820s banks crisis.
When Tilda is flirting with Nicholas, and says: “It’s all along of you, Mr. Nickleby, I think. I should like to have you for a partner always.” and he responds with equal double meaning:“I wish you had.” she replies “‘You’ll have a bad wife, though, if you always win at cards,’ said Miss Price.”
This refers to the saying “Lucky at cards, unlucky in love”.
When Tilda and John sweep out of the room, the narrator refers to:
“the huge Yorkshireman [..] exchanged with Nicholas, at parting, that peculiarly expressive scowl with which the cut-and-thrust counts, in melodramatic performances, inform each other they will meet again.”
Charles Dickens is well aware that he is writing a standard scene from a melodrama, and we can visualise this acted out on stage all the way through - and here he “sends up” his characters, actually inviting us to do so! Both John Browdie and Nicholas are attempting to outdo each other in their absurd, over-the-top posturing.
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But at this time in English society, with the newly emerging English middle classes, everything is uncertain. Nicholas's final comment about his "readiness to adapt [him]self to any society in which chance carrie[d him]" indicates this, as well as showing us his open, fairhanded nature.
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“a peacock with a turned-up nose being a novelty in ornithology, and a thing not commonly seen.”
Or perhaps her:
“If he’s a gentleman’s son at all, he’s a fondling, that’s my opinion.” which made me fall about! As her husband observes: “your mother always calls things and people by their wrong names” but this one was a perfect malapropism.
But then we still have the skilful ones where we laugh, and also have pause for thought, when the hungry servant describes Nicholas to Fanny:
“his beautiful dark eyes, and his sweet smile, and his straight legs—upon which last-named articles she laid particular stress; the general run of legs at Dotheboys Hall being crooked”
as really there is nothing to laugh at in the high incidence of either rickets or wasting diseases in the boys at Dotheboys Hall. Surely only Charles Dickens could make us smile, whilst alerting us to another ghastly fact, in quite this way. 😆
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelist (other topics)Dickens and the Artists (other topics)
Nicholas Nickleby (other topics)
Oliver Twist (other topics)
David Copperfield (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
John Mullan (other topics)Paul Schlicke (other topics)
Sybil Thorndike (other topics)
Paul Schlicke (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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I am so appalled whenever I read about William Bowes and similar monsters. It seems important to recognise that even though almost all Charles Dickens's "secondary" characters in Nicholas Nickleby are created to be larger than life, the type of events here are strictly accurate, and not exaggerated as some people assume they must be 🥹