The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2024 Booker Prize Longlist Discussion.
Some more random Booker links ….Two books have predatory piano teachers (Safekeep and Stone Yard Devotional)
Two have key scenes in Gare Du Nord (My Friends ends there, in TSEH the Chloe/Clare character changes train there in her journey back to England with the character who is James Wood of the New Yorker)
Two books have characters with Dementia with Lewy Bodies - Playground (where its completely central) and TSEH (Barbara and Francois best friend)
Two books have addiction as a key element - TSEH with Francois and alcohol and Wandering Stars where it’s tragically generational. Bruno in Creation Lake claims all our addictive genes are inherited from Neanderthals.
Gumble's Yard-From memory, I thought the most hated longlist book by this group was Pigeon English...and it was shortlisted.
I think you are going back to before the group was on Goodreads.
Ah...but you remember, and still "this group".
I have now finished my reread of the full longlist. Really enjoyed the second time around.
Are there books that moved up or down significantly on a reread?
Held and Enlightenment upHeadshot down
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Held and Enlightenment upHeadshot down"
Held and Enlightenment moved up on mine, but Headshot stayed about the same. Creation Lake moved down for me.
Hugh, thanks for updating the dynamic rankings history thread. I always find it fascinating to see how many of our top picks never made it onto the shortlist.
Mod
Where did you get it from Hugh?
Mod
Ordered through The Hive
Thanks. Looks like a handful but only a handful (half dozen) of Waterstones have copies in store today.
I am in the U.S. and am used to books not being available before the shortlist announcement and even before the prize is awarded. In the U.K. it is rarer. Has there ever been a book unpublished before the shortlist announcement that did not make the shortlist
Mod
Have there been many published after shortlist that have made the shortlist? Intuitively feels that publication dates generally get brought forward.Are any this year not planned to be published until after shortlist?
Thaks Hugh.In answer to your question your question Paul, I have no idea. Last I heard Playground had not been moved up, but I hope it has.
Playground is post shortlist. So I think was Bewilderment which was shortlisted.
Paul wrote: "Have there been many published after shortlist that have made the shortlist? Intuitively feels that publication dates generally get brought forward.Are any this year not planned to be published u..."
Pardon, it's too early AM for me I missed your joke.
I missed my joke as well - what was my joke?!Richard Powers does seem to be an exception to rules - publishing pre shortlist, signing his books (what is that about? feels like a desire to be able to make money from controlling signing but I hope it isn't that)
Paul wrote: "I missed my joke as well - what was my joke?!Richard Powers does seem to be an exception to rules - publishing pre shortlist, signing his books (what is that about? feels like a desire to be able..."
Were you not referring to the fact that they all will continual to be published after the shortlist.
Sam wrote: "Paul wrote: "I missed my joke as well - what was my joke?!Richard Powers does seem to be an exception to rules - publishing pre shortlist, signing his books (what is that about? feels like a desi..."
He meant first published.
Even if not meant as a joke we are turning it into one.
Paul wrote: "I missed my joke as well - what was my joke?!Richard Powers does seem to be an exception to rules - publishing pre shortlist, signing his books (what is that about? feels like a desire to be able..."
Not sure how he makes money by doing this - just seems a quirk
Mod
Well Powers does from googling also seem to provide signed bookplates, even numbered ones, to bookshops. And in the hierarchy of signed copies an in person signed on the page one is more valuable.
So it makes the ones he sells via bookshops etc more valuable by avoiding the competition from in person signed ones.
It’s either that or he is just deliberately awkward.
I've now finished this year's longlist. Unlike GY, I do not plan to reread all 13 of them, but I do want to reread Orbital to see whether I like it more on a second attempt, and I also want to reread Enlightenment just because I loved it. I feel very positive about this year's longlist. I did not love every book on it (not even close), but I am not sorry to have read any of them. Each gave me something to think about, and each was accomplished and worthy in its own way. I doubt that my top 6 will be the judges' top 6, and I also doubt that my favorite of the 13 will be the judges' favorite. But I am pretty satisfied by this year's Booker experience thus far.
I'm trying really hard to hold onto my dream that HELD will win, but even I don't believe it, and I am in love with that book.
I've now read or tried to read eleven and a third of the list. For me it is one of really quite low quality. I haven't actually come across a book that I think is fit to win the prize. Of course the wonderful thing about books is that everything is subjective. One person's failure is another's triumph. But I'm very disappointed with this list. It is hard to see how they can save it with even a half decent shortlist. From my point of view I'm certain this year's list will go down as one of the weakest and definitely one of those furthest away from my own tastes.
I also think it is a very American list. Of course nothing wrong with that though I think the prize has lost some sense of cultural definition which in some ways is a shame but in other ways isn't.
It will be interesting to see what the shortlist will be. I've really no idea how it will go.
I agree a bit with both Cindy & MT… I’m 12/13 & while each on the longlist is a book I’m glad I read (& quite a few I wouldn’t have otherwise) plus introducing me to authors I haven’t read before (really enjoying Bullwinkel’s short story collection, with the bonus of the book’s cover & as object so well-designed!) that left me thinking, intrigued in different ways, & moved, plus a couple I absolutely truly love… but maybe just thought “oh something here will blow me away, even more so than XYZ did! excitement!!” & instead—only in reflection—I’m realizing that the longlist itself still has major holes, missing some titles that I personally (& know I’m not alone) think are much more *worthy* of the prize or deserving the *Parade* of the Booker designation… & other than Alexis Wright &/or Rachel Cusk missing, I looked through the eligible books again just now & simply most on this longlist don’t compare to those two nor the incredibly fantastic debuts by Joelle Taylor & Katie Willis, nor the innovation of Rebecca Watson or Danielle Dutton, & many others… I don’t mean to be sore that these didn’t make the cut by this specific panel this year (“so it goes”) as I really do LOVE some books selected, but… oomph, it does still sting a bit… & the joy of reading & finding the gems!! :)
Joelle Taylor, Alexis Wright and Rebecca Watson all made the prestigious Barker and if they had been Booker longkisted would have been ineligible - so there’s that. I am still where I was at the time of the longlist announcement (as had already read 11 and started one) - it’s a solid but not spectacular list. Less real lows but less real highs than other years.
My impression from instagram - where there are a lot more people following the list - is stronger than previous 2 years. But that’s subjective.
Gumble's Yard " it’s a solid but not spectacular list. Less real lows but less real highs than other years."Completely agree. I've read 12 of the list (I only read books published by the time of the shortlist). High point for me? All of the dicussion of Praiseworthy led me to read it & I am now off to read everything else of hers. It is a tall stack of books!
I am happy with the Longlist. I imagine that means that it matches my taste better than others. I liked or loved 10 of the 13 and it brought to my attention a few books I would not otherwise have read (e.g., Stone Yard Devotional). Of course, I can think of a few books I'd love to have seen on the list, and I feel were "overlooked," (e.g., Chigozie Obioma's The Road to the Country), but I think that's always going to be the case.
Mod
Would love to hear your thoughts!
I will start with mine:
Predictions:
Crea..."
I am about to create a separate thread for shortlist predictions, so please post them there rather than here!
Any leaks or rumors about the shortlist?
Hearing Praiseworthy hasn't made it :-)
Not sure I can ever recall a Booker shortlist leak.
I've only read 8 of the 13 so far, but I'm really pleasantly surprised by how good this longlist is. I think what I most like about it is that even the books that didn't completely land for me feel like they're part of a wider, thought-provoking conversation that the longlist is somehow having amongst itself. Or maybe that's just what happens when you read most of the longlisted books in a row! I guess in other words, I admire the ideas and the intellectual ambition here even if the execution is sometimes a bit rough. This is much more my sort of thing than Booker longlists of recent years.
I have a question for those a bit more familiar with the politics of the Booker: Are nationalities taken into account for the shortlist? As in: 6 of 13 authors are more or less american, which would mean that in theory, the entire shortlist could be them. However, I'd assume that no more than three shortlisted books will be by american authors, since the optics would be off.But, remembering the Irish dominance last year and the 'Paulness' of the shortlist, I realise that I am actually not sure how much weight nationality has here. Does anyone have more information on that?
Generally what happens is that the judges reread the books and the ones that have more staying power make the shortlist (after discussions) then the same goes to the winner. That way it’s the book, rather than the author - there are exceptions though. The Testaments was awarded due to Atwood’s body of work
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Not sure I can ever recall a Booker shortlist leak."Last year there was a leak on the Independent or Telegraph, I can recall which one, but it was few hours prior the announcement
I think this is the first time I've read the entire longlist. I might have last year, but didn't discuss the books because I felt too ill-prepared, not erudite enough. But I've always read then all eventually and followed along here. I visit this forum to find new reading material because I know I'm going to get something good. I might not like it, but it'll be good.
Laura the judges will always say the pick off the book but it seems odd to me they would not (and should not) think a little of gender and race and nationality representation …. Is there a job in the UK or Us now when you would come up with a panel for interviews and not ensure a balanced panel as far as you could within reason … and the literary world is well to the left/liberal side of the political spectrum and the concept of a best book is a nebulous one anyway so hardly objective. The first reaction to the shortlist or longlist is almost always about the split of male/female, US/Uk/other etc so they must surely think of it … albeit the longlist implies they did not.
Mod
As usual, I will not be updating the longlist ranking tables after the shortlist announcement (even though one of the books is not yet available for those not on NetGalley or lucky enough to receive paper ARCs).
I am sure I speak for all of us in saying thank for all you do on the group Hugh in maintaining the rankings and setting up the threads.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I am sure I speak for all of us in saying thank for all you do on the group Hugh in maintaining the rankings and setting up the threads."Here here!
Yes, thank you very much, Hugh! I'm sure all appreciate you.
yes, thank you for everything you do, Hugh!
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The Mookse and the Gripes
Books mentioned in this topic
Girl, Woman, Other (other topics)The Testaments (other topics)
Held (other topics)
Jigsaw: An Unsentimental Education (other topics)
Paul Takes the Form of a Mortal Girl (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Bernardine Evaristo (other topics)Tommy Orange (other topics)
Alejandro Kasuga (other topics)
Anne Michaels (other topics)
Rachel Kushner (other topics)
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Who knows if some of them even read all the books at all?
A lot of this conversation is above my head, I'll admit. However, I do agree that all of the books on the longlist should have a chance of winning. Nothing should be chosen to be a losing pick.
Personally, I can't see Headshot winning or even making the shortlist, but it probably will. Make the shortlist, that is. It won't make mine, but I bet it will be a surprise shortlist pick.