2024 Booker Prize Longlist Discussion.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

I now have hard copies of 6 of the 13 after using click and collect at both of my local Waterstones branches.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Which do you have Hugh?

Like you I used click and collect across two branches.

I recall last year having to use click and collect at around 6 different branches even in central London - which I think shows how relatively unexpected the list was.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

The 6 I have so far are Orbital, Wild Houses, My Friends, Headshot, Safekeep and Wandering Stars, which is enough to be getting on with for now.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

Hive seem to have decent discounts on some of the more expensive ones.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I do not even know Hive Hugh can you elaborate.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

hive.co.uk is a website I heard about several years ago because they donate a small cut of the sale price to an independent bookshop of the customer's choice (so I suspect it was Five Leaves that mentioned them). I have used them before but not in the last couple of years, mostly because until very recently Blackwells offered similar or better discounts.

[Ann Helen]

For those who have Everand, you can find a few on there as well. I'm reading the e-book of Headshot there, and I've listened to The Safekeep. In addition they have James, This Strange Eventful History and Enlightenment.

[BookerMT2]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I do not even know Hive Hugh can you elaborate."

The Hive is owned, I believe, by the book wholesaler Gardners. They are very good though now the only wholesaler of any note supplying the independent bookshops. I don't think the amount they give to booksellers is as much as if you order via
https://uk.bookshop.org/

But could be wrong on that.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

BookerMT2 wrote: "Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I do not even know Hive Hugh can you elaborate."

The Hive is owned, I believe, by the book wholesaler Gardners. They are very good though now the only whole..."

Thanks. My memory is coming back to me now - I think Five Leaves may have recommended using them during lockdown when they weren't allowed to open the shop, and that may have been before bookshop.org's current arrangement was in place.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Sounds great. It’s hard to find a way to avoid large corporations in book buying if you don’t have a local bookshop (there are almost none in Surrey).

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

For Praiseworthy fans it just won Australia’s biggest prize - the Miles Franklin

[Paul]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "For Praiseworthy fans it just won Australia’s biggest prize - the Miles Franklin"

But clearly some craic cocaine is more to the taste of UK readers. I don't think the Booker will ever live down the shame (well not for me it won't anyway).

[Laura]

I decided not to read Praiseworthy unless it was longlisted due to how lengthy it looked but given how well-received it is here, I might give it a go after I've completed the longlist.

[Bella (Kiki)]

Laura wrote: "I decided not to read Praiseworthy unless it was longlisted due to how lengthy it looked but given how well-received it is here, I might give it a go after I've completed the longlist."

I feel the same way, Laura. The books I haven't read on the longlist come first, then I'll probably read PRAISEWORTHY.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

I read Carpentaria last year - enjoyed it but found it pretty hard work. So yes, I intend to read Praiseworthy eventually but need a decent block of time to set aside for it.

[Joy D]

I tried a couple times to get into Praiseworthy but decided to postpone it to see if it was nominated. Since it wasn't, I am going to wait until I have a decent stretch of time to concentrate on it.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

This may be of interest - some thoughts on how four of the books are linked by their use of scriptural references by non believers. I can post the text but it’s quite long

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-KW895gr...

[Cindy]

I saw that this morning GY and thought it was very interesting. Thanks for putting that together.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Another will follow tomorrow.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I realise it’s a little annoying to link to my account on another platform so this was my post on links:


I have now read 12 of the Booker longlist - which is giving me the chance to think of things that link the books together.

Some that spring to mind for me are: Scriptural Referencing and Temporal Framing Devices. I will cover the first here and the second in a subsequent post.

As a Christian one area that has really stood out to me on the longlist is the common use of biblical references - almost always by non or at most partial/lapsed believers.

The Safekeep’s most crucial scene relies on a Hebrew Scripture from Isaiah 56:7 - which the narrator (seemingly a non-believer but whose character, it seems to me is, steeped in generations of Calvinism) looks up in her bible. Remarkably those verses in untranslated Hebrew - then end the novel.

In Wandering Star, Jude reads through Psalms, Proverbs and Job and takes comfort from Isaiah 61:1. The title of the novel is taken from some verses in the New Testament book of Jude (from which Jude Star takes his name) - verses which also give the chorus of the Portishead song of the same name that inspired the very writing of this There, There prequel/sequel.

Sarah Perry’s Enlightenment - with character’s drawn in and around a Strict Baptist Chapel of Bethsheda (named after John 5:2 and with the nearby derelict waste land of Potters Field named after Matthew 27:7) - is simply infused in scriptural - and particularly King James Version - references. This begins from the very early pages where I was delighted by the reference by Thomas (whose doubts of course match those of the apostle) to a bay tree “flourishing like the wicked in the thirty-seventh Psalm”. (Psalm 37:35 KJV). Later the Old Testament characters of Ruth and Esther (each with their own brief but crucial book) are briefly imagined as coming out of a bible to advise Grace on sewing technique.

Stone Yard Devotional of course takes place in a religious retreat - and the atheist narrator’s first encounter with the practices of the nuns whose community she later joins, is via their singing of the Psalms.

What other themes are you spotting across the books?

[Kathy]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I realise it’s a little annoying to link to my account on another platform so this was my post on links:

Interesting GY. I will definitely be looking for these references as I read through the long list. I did notice in James, that Huck and Jim discussed the existence of a God. Maybe not Scriptural Referencing but an exploration of their belief concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. It has been a while since I read Orbital, but I think there was also reflection on the creation of the universe and our role in its stewardship. Maybe the theme of spirituality and a higher power or perhaps order versus chaos.

[Rachel]

Kathy wrote: "It has been a while since I read Orbital, but I think there was also reflection on the creation of the universe and our role in its stewardship. Maybe the theme of spirituality and a higher power or perhaps order versus chaos."

There is a small bit in Orbital where one of the non religious astronauts wonders how one of her crewmates can be both an astronaut and believe in a Creationist God.

Referring to the Earth:
She says: "What made that but some heedless hurling beautiful force?"
He says: "What made that but some heedful hurling beautiful force?"

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Thanks both. Yes that’s a great line from the book.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

My next thoughts on themes

Temporal Framing Devices.

Three of the novels ostensibly take place over a short time line (less than 48 hours). The time line additionally having a structural/logical nature which acts as a framing device for the novel.

And in all cases, this temporally bounded, structurally framed primary narrative - rather than constricting the novel’s ambition instead furthers it, allowing for narratives which swoop across the past, across geographies (and even space) and even into the near and briefly the distant future in one case.

My Friends takes place during a day and in the course of a walk from Kings Cross (where the main character leaves his friend to catch a Eurostar) to his home in West London. As he walks across London different parts of the City help to prompt his thoughts as he looks back on the formative and often tumultuous world-impacting events which have forged his two closest friendships and his conflicted identity.

Orbital takes place during a single earth day - which for the astronauts and cosmonauts on the space station corresponds to 16 orbits of the earth during which they not just carry out their quotidian assignments but observe (and photograph) the geographical features and cities of the earth - causing them to meditate on the planet’s fragility and of its human inhabitants.

Headshot has the longest framing - the last two days of a Boxing Tournament. The pre-drawn tournament bracket of the last 8 boxers gives the book its chapters (the resulting seven fights) and the author has talked about how she sees the bracket as something akin to the maps in Sci-Fi and Fantasy books, grounding the reader in an unfamiliar world and acting as a tether while she takes the narrative not just back into the formative pasts of her characters but deep into their future selves (and in the last chapter into future time and space).

What other themes are you spotting across the books?

[Gwendolyn]

This is great, Gumble’s Yard. Thanks for sharing! I haven’t read enough of the books yet to identify common themes, but I’ll keep looking.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

One more to come - topically inspired.

[LindaJ^]

I am late to the party having been distracted for the last week by travel planning. I've read, and loved, Enlightenment (read it twice), James, and Orbital and had already pre-ordered Creation Lake and Playground as the authors are two of those whose books I always read. I have not decided how many of the other 8 I will read.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

My third theme is a very topical and Olympian one - France.

Three (*) of the novels have settings in Francophone countries, and feature famous French people. As a bonus all three books have an element of the periodic table key to the book.

Note the first two have the strongest links: in both the lasting repercussions of French colonialism provides the very foundations of the story - and in both cases French run industrial conglomerates have played a part in excavating those foundations.

Playground
Famous French: Jacques-Yves Cousteau and Emile Gagnan
Francophone Setting: French Polynesia, Montreal
Element: Phosphorus

Strange and Eventful History
Famous French: Charles de Gaulle, Paul Harmon, Raymond Aron
Francophone Setting: Algiers, and L’Arba, Tlemcen, Paris, Toulon, Geneva
Element: Aluminium

Held
Famous French: Marie Curie, Eugène Atget (not named)
Francophone Setting: Cambrai, Sceaux, Paris.
Ekement: Radium

(*) I am aware that Crestion Lake is also set in France but I do not know where and if the other parts of the links hold. And besides the ability to turn the three books covers into a French flag was too good to miss (that one you will need to go to Instagram for).

The other 2 books not in my three themes are James and Wild Houses.

[Lascosas]

Strange and Eventful History
Derrida, Francois' fellow classmate in Paris, the only other from Algiers.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Oh yes. Thanks. Will add to Insta.

[Danielle]

This is always my favorite time of year, when the list has just come out and I am certain that I will read the entire longlist before the shortlist is announced--a goal that I have rarely achieved! This year I think I will take a side road next and read Praiseworthy since so many that I respect here have noted that it should have been included.

I am about 2/3 of the way through James and do think that it is helpful to have read Huck Finn first, especially if one is not American. But either way, Everett is as always a fascinating writer with a sharp, clear take on American history.

I am also looking forward to reading Rachel Kushner's newest as she is one of my favorite writers. I have only read the first chapter so far and I am hooked. From there, we will see.

[Robert]

I love both international booker and booker season. However the wait for the books drives me crazy.

[Jo]

Does anyone remember/know when the tickets are made available for the Booker Shortlist readings at the Southbank Centre?

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

You just need to keep an eye on the Booker site and Southbank centre assuming it’s there (it was not a couple of years back).

[Hugh, Active moderator]

There are a lot of very familiar names on this longlist - I am only 3.5 books in, but the remaining 9 are all by authors I have read before, which is unusual. Harvey has also been longlisted before, albeit quite a long time ago!

[BookerMT2]

Now through 6 of the list and right now I'd say this is a pretty weak list.
Of the 6 I didn't especially rate 3 of them and of the other 3 I'd say I liked them but none would I consider to be really great.

With two titles unavailable until September, unless pub dates change, I'm probably not going to get round to reading all the list this year. Of the two not out yet I can't say I'm looking forward at all to the Powers. I've read 4 of his now and really found all of them very hard going.

I understand why the prize has moved more international but I wonder if it is starting to lose its identity now. Also there are just too many books being submitted/called in.
The quickest readers on here seem to read a lot (80 GY?) but that is only around half of the books entered. I can't see any way in which a judge can read all of all of them.
So it is quite easy to see how a novel such as Praiseworthy didn't make the cut.
You're a judge and you start book X but not really getting on with it so put it down to start book Y intending to go back to book X but over time none of the other judges mention book X especially so you don't revisit. I think you'd think this even more so knowing you have so many titles to get through.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I read around 80 eligible books but that’s around half of what I read in a normal year. But I know that’s not normal and some years many of the judges are not normally voracious readers.

The Booker does seem to make a big thing of all the judges reading all the books - but I am not sure that actually works that well in practice.

Not sure the prize is losing its identity so much as evolving it - it’s clearly aiming to be the worlds biggest book prize (aim it’s two versions) and when I see how many people on Instagram and here follow it I think it’s probably succeeding. I am more troubled by the direction of the IB currently.

On the list and being 12.5 through it I actually like the list a lot more than you although I want to re read them all before forming conclusions (sone of them I read nearly a year ago and not thinking they would be Booker long listed)

What I would say though is that I feel less passionate about this list -

No books I have really hated and don’t want to see in the shortlist (I think Wild Houses was a weak voice but he is a clearly very talented writer especially at the sentence level; Wandering Stars does not work structurally for me but as we have said elsewhere he is an author that deserves this stage)

But also none I would champion passionately, am offended by bad reviews and will be devastated not to see on the list. (I lied James but Pulitzer not Booker, I really like the Powers but have mixed views on him as a writer including when I briefly met him at a signing, I liked My Friends but its win the Orwell - and besides a woman should win this year and am not clear which one I like the most).

Both of those are a real contrast to recent years where there were always a few books in each category for me.

[Paul]

Hugh wrote: "There are a lot of very familiar names on this longlist"

Interesting - had the opposite reaction. Had read none of the books and none were ones I would normally read. Feels a different world to what I'd think of as finest fiction - Instagram likes over literary quality. I'm so disappointed - being polite - by the list it's actually sent me into a reading slump.

And yes International Booker is also concerning.

[Lascosas]

Not the place for this comment, but...I have never thought the IB deserved the Booker name or reputation.

[Paul]

Lascosas wrote: "Not the place for this comment, but...I have never thought the IB deserved the Booker name or reputation."

It does seem unfair to saddle it with the Booker brand, given the awful anglo version. IFFP was a better brand.

Suspect not what you meant though!

The IB is always going to have a broader span of books I think - there's less eligible books, with pretty much everything eligible submitted, and so they cover a wider range - sort of Costa, Booker and Goldsmiths rolled into one. Some of the winners - Flights, Tomb of Sand and Discomfort of Evening - feels books for different reasons that the anglo-Booker judges might have struggled with, but others don't seem really Booker worthy (eg Celestial Bodies).

Does feel also that some of the more out-there translated works and domain of the US presses.

[Lascosas]

I will always lament the loss of BTBA.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Longlist completed. 5-6 days ahead of last year but behind 2022 … but a shortlist announced on 30 July makes a July date pretty challenging.

[Cindy]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Longlist completed. 5-6 days ahead of last year but behind 2022 … but a shortlist announced on 30 July makes a July date pretty challenging."

Well done GY. I won't get there until early September.

[David]

Well done!

[Mohamed]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Longlist completed. 5-6 days ahead of last year but behind 2022 … but a shortlist announced on 30 July makes a July date pretty challenging."

Well done! what is your prediction for the shortlist/winner?

[Paul]

Issue with the Best Translated Book Award was that there was only one person who was capable of actually reading the entire 25 strong longlist - and that was you Lascosas! And I had a horrible feeling that included the judges.

Still remember first coming across the prize on the old Mookse and Gripes blog pre Goodreads - the forum for newbies here that gave rise to this one on Goodreads - and being rather stunned by your erudite analysis on such a large number of, not exactly easy to read, books.

Also that odd thing where they sold out to Amazon to get sponsorship yet the prize fund was 3 dollars 14 cents and a snickers bar.

[Lascosas]

You are very kind Paul, but I wouldn't call it selling out to Amazon. They got a grant from them, and I never heard that Amazon tried to influence the award. But back to the Booker!

[Gwendolyn]

Paul wrote: "Issue with the Best Translated Book Award was that there was only one person who was capable of actually reading the entire 25 strong longlist - and that was you Lascosas! And I had a horrible feel..."

Paul, I was one of the judges for the BTBA one year (the chair, actually), and I second your concern that not all of the judges read all the books….I probably shouldn’t say more. It was an eye-opening experience. I declined to participate the following year, not because I didn’t enjoy the experience but because I had to put my entire life on hold to give the books the due attention I thought they deserved.

[Lascosas]

That kind of breaks my heart. I made a point of reading at least 150 eligible books each year.

[Paul]

Interesting! Reading all the eligible books - 400 odd was clearly impossible and as I recall Chad was quite open as to how that part of process worked. But I was being a bit tongue in cheek on the longlist so that’s a bit concerning.

And the list produced of eligible books was a great resource of translated fiction - Listopia before Listopia and an official list (the Warwick Prize has done the same here).

Were you chair the year Stone Upon Stone won?